UK Government theft.

DK602 said:
The Country can not afford to keep paying pensions as people live longer; it has got to stop.
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Can you explain why? Given that the UK economy is worth $3 trillion what is the justification for not sharing our great wealth fairly?
DK602 said:
Don't expect the same privileges whilst not working as you get when you are IMO.
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Why not? The children of the rich who don't work get the privileges so why shouldn't the children of the poor? Are they a different species or simply inferior?
DK602 said:
Lets move away from our Robin Hood society where we take from those that can be arsed and give to those that can't.
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So should we simply leave the poor to starve and thus reduce the surplus population?
DK602 said:
IMO no one, no matter what age should be given money.
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In that case do you advocate taking the children of the rich from them so that they are not given money? What about the spouses of the rich who do not work? How do you deal with that? Should a rich person be required to pay their spouse: so much for cooking, so much for cleaning and so much for sex?
 
tijuana taxi said:
I retired at just under 55, will be 61 this year and no state pension until i'm 66
Always treated the state pension as a nice bonus, never banked on it and glad I didn't.
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Agreed, the state pension will only be a proportion of a planned retirement income. But at 55 did you make enough years on contributions to be eligible for an anticipated full state pension?
Are you sure about @61 that it is 66 when you are due it?
Nikon f1.8 said:
How does that work, I'm turned 63 and my state pension kicks in when I'm 67 :(

I stand corrected just looked it up and mine kicks in on May 4th 2022
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As per above, I am 65 and about 12 years back I got the letter telling me that I will get mine @ 65 & six months! Re: contribution ~ I have been paying my NI for 47 years...... AFAIK the extra years I paid were to 'make up for any differential due to SERPS opt out period'
 
Box Brownie said:
Agreed, the state pension will only be a proportion of a planned retirement income. But at 55 did you make enough years on contributions to be eligible for an anticipated full state pension?
Are you sure about @61 that it is 66 when you are due it?
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I started work at 16 and also did the check to make sure I would get a full state pension
Its at 66 plus months according to the letter I received, but as I said not relying on it
 
What will happen if I am already receiving state pension but age less than 70 will they stop paying it to me ?
That’s what I’m worried about as I’m taking early retirement next year
 
DK602 said:
I don't see how it is 'punishing the poor'?

The Country can not afford to keep paying pensions as people live longer; it has got to stop. If you are working you should be investing for retirement - if you are not working/poor you are given tokens to maintain a reasonable lifestyle without spending it on alcohol/fags/drugs/lottery.

Don't expect the same privileges whilst not working as you get when you are IMO.

Lets move away from our Robin Hood society where we take from those that can be arsed and give to those that can't.

IMO no one, no matter what age should be given money.
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Unfortunately for some the cost of living in the UK eats all of their salary and as such cannot afford to save for a retirement. The whole idea of a caring society is to look after those that cannot look after themselves.
I agree that lazy, scrounging wasters who cant be bothered to find any employment should be "persuaded" to get off their backsides but we still need to support those that cannot support themselves, either because they dont earn enough, or have huge payouts because of the high cost of housing/food/fuel etc or are in some way prevented in being able to look after themselves, the old, the infirmed etc perhaps we should include disabled soldiers/policemen etc in that group too?
Or would you simply disbar anyone for not looking after themselves?
I have paid huge amounts of NI/Tax/Corporation tax etc during my working life and I am more than happy that it has helped those less fortunate, and will continue to pay tax into retirement because I was fortunate enough to work in a high paid job (albeit long hours and stressful working) and managed to save for my retirement, it would be a lot more comfortable if I didnt have to continue paying tax but as has been said I got tax relief when I saved it so it's only fair I should pay tax when I withdraw it.
What I object to is the paltry amount of State Pension I (and many more) shall receive when I retire compared to other well developed economies, who's nicked all my money?? :)
 
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LCPete said:
What will happen if I am already receiving state pension but age less than 70 will they stop paying it to me ?
That’s what I’m worried about as I’m taking early retirement next year
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I doubt they will bring in an age change that will affect existing recipients of State Pension.
 
MatBin said:
I doubt they will bring in an age change that will affect existing recipients of State Pension.
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Thanks that’s brilliant was worried about that would be a disaster for us
I do a manual job no way I could carry on until I’m 70
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Can you explain why? Given that the UK economy is worth $3 trillion what is the justification for not sharing our great wealth fairly?
Why not? The children of the rich who don't work get the privileges so why shouldn't the children of the poor? Are they a different species or simply inferior?
So should we simply leave the poor to starve and thus reduce the surplus population?
In that case do you advocate taking the children of the rich from them so that they are not given money? What about the spouses of the rich who do not work? How do you deal with that? Should a rich person be required to pay their spouse: so much for cooking, so much for cleaning and so much for sex?
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I should have explained better - no money from the state should be given to the unemployed or poor.

If someone earns lots of money then they can spend/pass it on to who they like.

No one needs to starve - give them tokens to buy healthy food and not McDonalds etc.

State pension should be a thing of the past - this Country looks after the poor far to much!
 
DK602 said:
IMO no one, no matter what age should be given money.
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State pension isn't a benefit or hand out . It is no different to a private or company pension. You pay into it, you expect a return on the investment.
 
nilagin said:
State pension isn't a benefit or hand out . It is no different to a private or company pension. You pay into it, you expect a return on the investment.
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What investment? You don't invest in anything - it is very different to a private pension.
 
LCPete said:
What will happen if I am already receiving state pension but age less than 70 will they stop paying it to me ?
That’s what I’m worried about as I’m taking early retirement next year
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That depends on how old you are at present.
 
nilagin said:
You pay into it, you expect a return on the investment.
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Quite right. We used to call that the social contract and it was the bedrock of our society. Then along came the people who think the unemployed are lazy, the infirm are scroungers and the rich should never be expected to contribute to society. I think it is sad that such people are getting their way and depriving hard working people of the pensions they worked for and deserve.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Quite right. We used to call that the social contract and it was the bedrock of our society. Then along came the people who think the unemployed are lazy, the infirm are scroungers and the rich should never be expected to contribute to society. I think it is sad that such people are getting their way and depriving hard working people of the pensions they worked for and deserve.
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Except the rich pay for almost everything with higher taxes & contributions.
 
DK602 said:
What investment? You don't invest in anything - it is very different to a private pension.
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You pay national insurance. It provides a pension, it provides hospital treatment etc, it provides unemployment benefit. You are investing into a system that should payback when you need it or when you retire. I pay in over £90 a week, I expect the same return, as a minimum, as someone who pays minimum NI contributions each week.
 
nilagin said:
You pay national insurance. It provides a pension, it provides hospital treatment etc, it provides unemployment benefit. You are investing into a system that should payback when you need it or when you retire. I pay in over £90 a week, I expect the same return, as a minimum, as someone who pays minimum NI contributions each week.
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You can expect all you like!

NI is no more than another tax. If you put your head in the sand and think your state pension is going to be ok then that is foolish! It's obvious society is ageing, there is no money to pay the people who are the biggest drain on the Country. For years the advice has been to save for your retirement; don't complain when the rug is pulled from under your feet as you were warned about it.
 
DK602 said:
What investment? You don't invest in anything - it is very different to a private pension.
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when I was a young boy (probably around your age now) private pensions were practically unheard of, everyone paid into the state pension when working, and there was SERPS which was replaced. IMHO I have paid my dues to earn my pension so in effect that is an investment for MY future. I also have a private pension which I am currently taking but that was started well into my working career and not at the beginning. If you did not have a private pension where would you get the funds to survive when you retire. Many cannot afford to make ends meet at the moment, the minimum wage is a pittance but companies like to pay that as it keeps the shareholders happy, they would probably struggle big time to pay their National Insurance contributions AND a private pension.
 
Nikon f1.8 said:
when I was a young boy private pensions were practically unheard of....
..I also have a private pension which I am currently taking but that was started well into my working career and not at the beginning.
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Spot on (y)
 
LCPete said:
What will happen if I am already receiving state pension but age less than 70 will they stop paying it to me ?
That’s what I’m worried about as I’m taking early retirement next year
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When they started shifting the retirement age for women from 60 to 65 & both sexes beyond 65 existing pension payments were not suspended so my guess is those of us who qualify for pension payments under the rules that applied when we retired will continue to receive our pensions.
 
DK602 said:
You can expect all you like!

NI is no more than another tax. If you put your head in the sand and think your state pension is going to be ok then that is foolish! It's obvious society is ageing, there is no money to pay the people who are the biggest drain on the Country. For years the advice has been to save for your retirement; don't complain when the rug is pulled from under your feet as you were warned about it.
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I am saving for my retirement, I have a very good company pension where my employer pays in approximately 3 times my weekly contribution. I also stash money away into several ISAS to get a tax free income. But it isn't unreasonable to expect a return on NI contributions and get a state pension as well, especially with the amount I have paid in and still paying in and had very little in return.
 
DK602 said:
Except the rich pay for almost everything with higher taxes & contributions.
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As a proportion of income the poor pay more in tax.

You should stick to the Daily Mail website with your completely incorrect and frankly ugly views of human beings.

If we lived in any sort of meritocracy your views might hold a smidgen of water, but as we live in a society that is anything but fair, the simple fact is that we’re subsidising the rich not the poor. And a continuation of that behaviour leaves us with the rich having everything and the poor nothing.
 
Employers get away with paying the minimum wage (or less) because they expect the state will top up the income with benefits. If employers paid a living wage there would be no need to pay benefits to those in work.

Sadly there will always be people who are unable to work & need support; unfortunately human nature is such that there will also be people who try to exploit the benefits system and have a free ride.

From 2003 until 2014 I worked as IT manager in a secondary school in an area of high social deprevation, an old mining community that suffered at the hands of the Thatcher Government. As a result of long term mass unemployment( for 3 generations) many of the kids at my school had little or no hope or aspiration, all they knew was living in a household where money was tight.
Some of them didn't even have a bed of their own, never mind a bedroom & they went hungry during the school holidays because they no longer got their school lunch. Staff at the school would often put their hands in their own pockets to pay for school uniforms for kids who would otherwise have been picked upon for not having the school uniform.

So much for our caring society.......
 
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DK602 said:
Except the rich pay for almost everything with higher taxes & contributions.
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I was a 40% tax payer for the last 30 years of my working life & paid significant NI contributions; I don't begrudge any of my contributions being used to help people who were less well off than me. In retirement I am still paying tax, which I hope will help someone less fortunate than me.
 
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broc said:
When they started shifting the retirement age for women from 60 to 65 & both sexes beyond 65 existing pension payments were not suspended so my guess is those of us who qualify for pension payments under the rules that applied when we retired will continue to receive our pensions.
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Thanks yes that’s true I had a panic moment!
We should be ok then
 
Sat in Costa - outside two unemployed drinking coffee an smoking. They are also talking about how much they spend in arcades trying to win an Xbox!
 
DK602 said:
I don't see how it is 'punishing the poor'?

The Country can not afford to keep paying pensions as people live longer; it has got to stop. If you are working you should be investing for retirement - if you are not working/poor you are given tokens to maintain a reasonable lifestyle without spending it on alcohol/fags/drugs/lottery.

Don't expect the same privileges whilst not working as you get when you are IMO.

Lets move away from our Robin Hood society where we take from those that can be arsed and give to those that can't.

IMO no one, no matter what age should be given money.
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Pfffft!

I'm not asking to be given money, I want what I paid in when I was told I could have it.
People living longer is no reason/excuse for withholding what I paid for.
 
Phil V said:
As a proportion of income the poor pay more in tax.

You should stick to the Daily Mail website with your completely incorrect and frankly ugly views of human beings.

If we lived in any sort of meritocracy your views might hold a smidgen of water, but as we live in a society that is anything but fair, the simple fact is that we’re subsidising the rich not the poor. And a continuation of that behaviour leaves us with the rich having everything and the poor nothing.
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I take it you never did Maths!
Not sure how 20% of a small salary is higher than 45%
 
soupdragon said:
Pfffft!

I'm not asking to be given money, I want what I paid in when I was told I could have it.
People living longer is no reason/excuse for withholding what I paid for.
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I think you will find all public sector pensions have changed a lot more!
NI is just another tax - how much of your income tax do you get back?
It is harsh but we need to at some point get rid of the state pension.
 
DK602 said:
I take it you never did Maths!
Not sure how 20% of a small salary is higher than 45%
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That is just income tax. There is value added tax, council tax, fuel duty, road tax and whole host of other taxes which apply at the same rate to everyone and cannot be avoided however little you earn.
 
DK602 said:
I think you will find all public sector pensions have changed a lot more!
NI is just another tax - how much of your income tax do you get back?
It is harsh but we need to at some point get rid of the state pension.
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NI isn’t just another tax - you really are quite silly aren’t you.
 
DK602 said:
Sat in Costa - outside two unemployed drinking coffee an smoking. They are also talking about how much they spend in arcades trying to win an Xbox!
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What about the person on zero hours contract in rented accomodation owned by one of your overtaxed rich people.
Can only hope you end up in a really crappy care home that is underfunded, serve you right
 
Anyone want to "play" Carrousel?
 
The "well off" do get taxed more and pay more in absolute terms. The top 1% get 12% of all income and pay 27% of all income tax, For anyone to suggest they don't pay their share is questionable. Whether or not they deserve that income, or that share is enough to cover all requirements, is another question.

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9178

Income tax payments are highly concentrated
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In 2016–17 (the most recent year for which data are available), the top 1% of income tax payers (those with gross incomes over about £164,000) earned 12% of the pre-tax income of income tax payers and contributed 27% of income tax receipts (Figure 3). The top 10% of income tax payers (those with incomes over about £54,000) paid 59% of income tax, while the bottom half of income tax payers accounted for less than 10% of income tax receipts.
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DK602 said:
Bin off the state pension IMO. People should be planning their own retirement.
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If 16 year olds were told this was going to happen to them then they can plan accordingly. The problem with raising the pension age or scrapping it now is how do those in there 40's actually accumulate enough money to live on when they retire?

What does society do with those that can't save for a pension? (Not everybody who hasn't got pension (other than the state pension) is a work shy scrounger)
 
Talking of taxes, what about the single disabled widow living in a 2 bedroom council house being charged 'bedroom' tax in an area where there are no single bed roomed properties available for her to move to?
 
munch said:
If 16 year olds were told this was going to happen to them then they can plan accordingly. The problem with raising the pension age or scrapping it now is how do those in there 40's actually accumulate enough money to live on when they retire?

What does society do with those that can't save for a pension? (Not everybody who hasn't got pension (other than the state pension) is a work shy scrounger)
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I am sure there are some who would advocate bringing back the workhouses.........
 
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