underage models

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LongLensPhotography

LongLensPhotography

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I need to check this one carefully.

Apparently I did end up with some underage model shots. While not nude some may be considered slightly questionable. I got the model release signed by parents, but that is probably too little. What would you say - give them a CD, and delete them for good from my site and HDD?
Next time I will check it before the shoot, not after! My brain wasn't working yesterday :bang:
 
A lot here depends on age of the model, clothing worn and type of pose.
If it was underwear or the pose could be considered sexual in anyway then you most likely would have problems.

Deleting might take them from view, but any image you delete from you hard drive can still be recovered by specialist software and any way the girl will still have a copy of them if you give her the CD of them.

When working with underage models you have to set defined, safe limits and not allow either yourself or the model to push those limits.

The only exceptions I can think of would be when working on a commission for either a planned editorial or for a catalog shoot.
 
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daugirdas said:
I need to check this one carefully.

Apparently I did end up with some underage model shots. While not nude some may be considered slightly questionable. I got the model release signed by parents, but that is probably too little. What would you say - give them a CD, and delete them for good from my site and HDD?
Next time I will check it before the shoot, not after! My brain wasn't working yesterday :bang:
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Man I feel sorry for you, I would get in contact with the patents and explain the situation and say that you have had to delete the questionable images andgive a disc with the images you can.
 
daugirdas said:
I need to check this one carefully.

Apparently I did end up with some underage model shots. While not nude some may be considered slightly questionable. I got the model release signed by parents, but that is probably too little. What would you say - give them a CD, and delete them for good from my site and HDD?
Next time I will check it before the shoot, not after! My brain wasn't working yesterday :bang:
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model release is irrelavent - if they are indecient they are indecient.

You can actually give the images to the model but she can't publish them anywhere and you can't keep a copy.

exactly what kind of shots are we talking about, any nipple or bush showing? or is it just bra and pants etc
 
Apparently I did end up with some underage model shots. While not nude some may be considered slightly questionable
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Were you not aware of her age when she signed up for the shoot or even what you were looking at through the viewfinder? And then to compound things you posted them on your website? :nuts: :bang:

If they really are in any way indecent then youre boned.
 
Depending on how indecent they were and how underage she is, it could be time to take your hard drive out of your computer, smash it and lob it in a river
 
A tricky one. No point in on about what you should have done. A Model doesn't have to be provocatively dressed for it to be deemed "sexual". It could just be the pose. However, this is subjective. I would delete the images and explain to the client that you now believe some images could be miss interpereted and have been destroyed. Give them the ones that are ok.

I always ask for 2 forms of I.D. at least one with a photo.

I have done birthday shoot where I have had to delete shots. Shooting a group of girls and on editing have seen a pose in the group that could to someone be miss interpreted.

I explain to the parents beforehand that any poses that are even remotely "risky" will not be photographed and the reason why explained.
 
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POAH said:
model release is irrelavent - if they are indecient they are indecient.

You can actually give the images to the model but she can't publish them anywhere and you can't keep a copy.

exactly what kind of shots are we talking about, any nipple or bush showing? or is it just bra and pants etc
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No, nothing exciting is showing, let just say I easily got away with doing the shoot on the beach with other people watching. The poses - well how would you pose a female in the water? So thinking that we live in the Daily Mail island I am not certain just about how I could land in brown stuff. In Italy or Spain I bet that would be norm.

essexash said:
Were you not aware of her age when she signed up for the shoot or even what you were looking at through the viewfinder? And then to compound things you posted them on your website? :nuts: :bang:

If they really are in any way indecent then youre boned.
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It was never posted in anywhere but a private password protected area for them to download.

To be honest it was a real mess. Somebody else 'with decades of experience' organised a few models, TFCD shoot between a few togs. In the interest of time I left the forms to the end and only had a proper look at home. (A lot of mistakes not to repeat) I couldn't tell at first, but I did notice she was a bit skinny. I am sure you will appreciate how difficult it is to tell the age, when there is too much make up, and apparently she even smokes :gag::bat: I was working against the sun in the beach, so again I just didn't appreciate the real situation (ok, excuses, I know). The lesson is now learnt, but obviously I need to sort out this mess with this one.
 
Considering the subject matter there have been a few disturbing comments made by some members in this thread
 
iancandler said:
Deleting might take them from view, but any image you delete from you hard drive can still be recovered by specialist software and any way the girl will still have a copy of them if you give her the CD of them.
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There are plenty of software progs around that can securely erase files and wipe free space [if you've already deleted using normal methods] making them unrecoverable by any means.
 
kinda pointless securly erasing the HD when the images that have been given out already will presumably have ITPC data stamped all over them..

presuming the beach shots with public present contained no nudity i dont see the problem personally. doesnt sound indecent.
 
You didn't book the models and naturally assumed all were above board and of the required age as the person doing the booking had lots of experience in this area. You trusted them then discovered later they'd made a mistake.

As the shoot was out in public then there was little scope for any funny business anyway. The person booking the models is in more trouble if anything does come of it.
 
I suppose it depends on 'how much' under age she was. For a public shoot on a beach, in beachwear I suppose, added with the fact you have a model release signed by the parents and also that the model was booked by another person then I really don't think you have too much to worry about, unless she was obviously under age.
Provocative photos aren't neccessarily sexual so I would put it all down to experience (bad?) and learn from it for next time. All the talk of destroying photos and hard drives etc. seems a bit over the top TBH and is more likely to create an investigation of the photos than if you'd not mentioned it in the first place.
 
modchild said:
I suppose it depends on 'how much' under age she was. For a public shoot on a beach, in beachwear I suppose, added with the fact you have a model release signed by the parents and also that the model was booked by another person then I really don't think you have too much to worry about, unless she was obviously under age.
Provocative photos aren't neccessarily sexual so I would put it all down to experience (bad?) and learn from it for next time. All the talk of destroying photos and hard drives etc. seems a bit over the top TBH and is more likely to create an investigation of the photos than if you'd not mentioned it in the first place.
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So you did a swimwear shoot with an under-age model; her parents signed a release. So what's the problem? Swimwear shots are perfectly legal in UK, unless shot in indecent (sexual) manner, which you say you didn't; and judging from the portrait gallery on your website, I believe you. I see nothing wrong here. If you feel morally bad, then delete them and move on. Nothing to lose your sleep over though.
 
Found this on one of the modelling agencies:
Shots in swimwear or underwear are allowed (say for catalogue work or model portfolios) but must not be portrayed in a sexual nature and must be deemed as necessary. If the nature of the shoot involves this type of pose it will be discussed in detail and agreement reached by all involved before the shoot commences. Shots of this nature may be at the request of a paying client who may also impose other rules on the shoot.
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Could someone expand on the 'sexual nature' part? The photos WON'T go public on my site, it is all about giving them or not to the parent (IPTC data removed) for personal/archival use only.

For all the trouble I will better find a 20-30-ish year old pretty looking model(s) and do the shoot again.
 
daugirdas said:
Found this on one of the modelling agencies:

Could someone expand on the 'sexual nature' part? The photos WON'T go public on my site, it is all about giving them or not to the parent (IPTC data removed) for personal/archival use only.

For all the trouble I will better find a 20-30-ish year old pretty looking model(s) and do the shoot again.
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That is up to the courts ruling I think and how good the 'Briefs' (no pun) are at arguing the case for or against because every picture is different (potentially)
 
tiler65 said:
That is up to the courts ruling I think and how good the 'Briefs' (no pun) are at arguing the case for or against because every picture is different (potentially)
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Probably it is fair to say that since I was using Canon the shots were all out of focus and badly exposed :lol:. At least once it comes useful.
 
What exactly is the problem here? There doesn't appear to be a legal issue, but what you can do within the law in this sensitive area, and what is prudent, are not the same thing at all.
 
OK, I'm even more confused now. What reaction are you expecting if you give her parents the exact images you are worried about? If those images show their beloved daughter posing for a camera in a bikini (which they were happy with - given that they signed a release), then what is the problem here?

You say you won't publish them, but the parents can have them for personal use? If they are of any sexual nature, what parents would want to do ANYTHING with such images, and why on earth you would you want to give them such images??? I just don't follow your logic here.

They are either

1) clean swimwear images her parents will be happy to see, hence you are quite OK to publish on your website should you wish, or
2) they are not age appropriate matierial, and you shouldn't have taken them (in which case I have no advise to offer you.

On the assumption that it is 1, take a deep breath and chill out.
 
Were the parents present during the shoot? if so it coukld hardly be considered indecent, not many parents would let things go that far if they were there.
 
neil_g said:
to be honest i agree with them, i dont see what is so disturbing without quotes to refer to.

i guess that makes me troll 3? :shrug:
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I think some terminology that was used referring to a body part(s) considering the age of the model was a bit inappropriate... IMO anyway...
 
srichards said:
You didn't book the models and naturally assumed all were above board and of the required age as the person doing the booking had lots of experience in this area. You trusted them then discovered later they'd made a mistake.

As the shoot was out in public then there was little scope for any funny business anyway. The person booking the models is in more trouble if anything does come of it.
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This is the only post in the entire thread the OP should take any notice of.
 
LINK

Paragraph 2.

Doesn't matter if the parents were there or gave consent if the images are deemed sexual (I'm not saying yours are).
 
Originally Posted by srichards
You didn't book the models and naturally assumed all were above board and of the required age as the person doing the booking had lots of experience in this area. You trusted them then discovered later they'd made a mistake.

As the shoot was out in public then there was little scope for any funny business anyway. The person booking the models is in more trouble if anything does come of it.
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This is the only post in the entire thread the OP should take any notice of.

What he said ^^^

Plus you haven't set out to deliberately do anything wrong and it was with the parents consent.

Now you know the facts you haven't published them.

Nothing to worry about, just delete the pics.
 
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sunnyside_up said:
I think some terminology that was used referring to a body part(s) considering the age of the model was a bit inappropriate... IMO anyway...
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How was it inappropriate? It was a legitimate question to the situation the OP described. Without showing the pictures it's kinda difficult to know what the pictures are like with what the OP first wrote.
 
POAH said:
How was it inappropriate? It was a legitimate question to the situation the OP described. Without showing the pictures it's kinda difficult to know what the pictures are like with what the OP first wrote.
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Seriously???? I'm sorry, but i think it's highly inappropriate to be asking if an underaged persons 'bush' is showing! It's crude, rude and just plain ignorant. Sure, the general question was legit, but certainly could have been phrased in a more dignified manner. That's what I meant by inappropriate...

But I think this is straying from the topic now, so can someone please give me a hand down from this horse please? Lol! ;)
 
Extremly unusually (virtually unprecedented in fact) I find myself agreeing with Poah on this one ... its not exactly a bad word - there are several far cruder and ruder words he could have used.
 
No, but used in the context of referring to a possibly underaged girl, again, phrasing could have been a bit more refined and less, for lack of a better word, common. It sounds degrading... Perhaps it's a woman thing...
 
I understand what you are saying although its pretty mild - would you have been happier if he'd used the term 'pubic hair' ?
 
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