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Surely you should get work in the public if we have it so cushy?
I for one do not want to join the race to the bottom which so many are intent on taking
and please use their services
Unions agree deal on Pensions
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Surely you should get work in the public if we have it so cushy?
I for one do not want to join the race to the bottom which so many are intent on taking
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School closed so son was at home, wife is midday care assistant and not in the union so still had to work but because the school was closed to kids had to go in at an earlier time than normal to work her alotted time which all meant we were unable to do what we would have normally have done at that time and she had to get my eldest son to run her about later in his car beacuse we no longer had the time to do it in the morning as I still had to go to work. Fortunately it all fell on one of my late shifts otherwise I'd have been forced to use up one of my days holidays to look after my youngest son.
Why should our day have been disrupted even just a little bit. Why should we feel used, just because the public sector do? It's their fight not ours.
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I don't think any of us want to be in a race to the bottom. However, the country is in debt by a huge amount, private companies are under financial pressure from the economy and pension costs are universally rising. So to avoid rising pension contributions, we need to reduce the debt, improve company performance, and at the same time generate money as a nation to subsidise pension contributions and retain parity. If you can solve that in the current economic environment, then you have a very powerful magic wand.
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So we should look at the lowest paid nations and adjust public sector workers wages accordingly
All of a sudden, because I'm a public sector worker, am I suppose to be ashamed because I'm earning so much? Believe me, myself and most of the people I work with, don't earn a great sum of money.
Common sense would show, that as the nation is living longer, there does need to be a realignment of pensions, but that is not what this government is about. This government is seeing this as an ideal scenario to cream billions of pounds off towards the deficit.
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Getting 25 billion of unpaid taxes owed by big companies would be a start
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16278699
The NHS is in surplus, and what happened to "This generation will die before their parents" line that was being pushed out not too long ago.
The real danger though looking at it sensibly is the fact that people will start to opt out of pension schemes as they have done in the private sector, leaving the pensions in crisis in other ways.
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Strange how these top companies, who supposedly are financially challenged can still award huge pay increases to their top staff.
The government has been very clever in the way it has run it's PR game. The old divide and conquer routine, set private sector against public sector and the sad thing is, it works
Defiance
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Fair point although the media headline and the truth are often detached. The £25bn is under dispute and therefore may not all be owed (if any). However, there is often a sting in the tail too. Such a payback could result in lower dividends and lower share prices for these companies which in turn would reduce further the value of pension funds and in fact increase the problem. It may also lead to large companies moving their HQ to countries with more generous tax regimes, reducing employment and tax revenues further.
Again media headlines versus reality and looking at the few and not the many. There are also many more companies in serious financial difficulty and struggling to survive who are not doing this.
I'm sure there is a political agenda behind this. However, we live in a democracy and we chose to be governed this way or we elect someone else.
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Coalition government, oh yeah, that's right, they didn't get enough votes to form a government.
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johnnypanic said:Strange how these top companies, who supposedly are financially challenged can still award huge pay increases to their top staff.
The government has been very clever in the way it has run it's PR game. The old divide and conquer routine, set private sector against public sector and the sad thing is, it works
What about the salaries of the public sector in the top jobs? At least the private sector contribute financially to the economy.
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Islander said:If you read what I said rather than trotting out the usual dogma then you'd realise that I've already answered the question
Oh well it was an interesting thread for a while there.
So you are unable to form a reasoned response to my reply!
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Its a shame the most visual and highly paid group (nurses and teachers) are again pushed right to the front of this conversation, when the most difference to pensions is made to the lowest paid and non-vocal invisible workers (who are in the majority)
Did the strike help in the slightest?
Did the strike help in the slightest?
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Disgraceful comment :nono:
These individuals who are happy to slag off the public sector workers wouldn't be so vocal when they have a need for them, e.g. ambulance call outs, attendances at hospital, etc.
Public sectors workers play a vital role in our society and this should be recognised and appaulded
We know they do but that is not the argument...it is whether the strike did any good regarding their pensions and the amount paid in to them.Public sectors workers play a vital role in our society and this should be recognised and appaulded
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The strike highlighted the issue, so therefore was successful as regards that, but it does not seem to have had the desired effect of "forcing" the government to adapt their unreasonable changes. There seems little movement, from the government position, prior to the strike, even though some unions seem to be putting a spin on it, possibly to save face
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Disgraceful comment :nono:
These individuals who are happy to slag off the public sector workers wouldn't be so vocal when they have a need for them, e.g. ambulance call outs, attendances at hospital, etc.
Public sectors workers play a vital role in our society and this should be recognised and appaulded
There's a hell of a lot of public sector workers who don't play a vital role, yet seem to get large pay packets.
If someone in the private sector isn't pulling their weight in their job, they soon find themselves looking for another job. People employed within the private sector get made promises and sometimes their employers have to break those promises, usually for economic reasons, why should those in the public sector be any different, just because their employer happens to be the government. If my employer or any other employer needs to make cutbacks to save money or reduce debt, it will look to reduce it's greatest overhead, wages, or other allowances including pensions, the government is no different.
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So millions of people had to be inconvenienced and some lose money, just so you could highlight something. Eurely it would have been better for your unions to just take out a full page ad in the national press.The strike highlighted the issue, so therefore was successful as regards that, but it does not seem to have had the desired effect of "forcing" the government to adapt their unreasonable changes. There seems little movement, from the government position, prior to the strike, even though some unions seem to be putting a spin on it, possibly to save face
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what do union officials earn, and did they loose money during the strike?
joescrivens
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yes because that would have had the same amount of exposure and effect
As I wrote before, it had more effect on the innocent than the government (unless that was the intention which there is every indication it was) and my above reply was to the comment made that the strike had been succesful because of the exposure it created.
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i don't think you fully understand what industrial action is for. Its supposed to cause the most disruption possible, thats a direct effect of the need to act and why it is taken so seriously.
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The most disruption to the employer, not innocent people.
If I went on strike for a day, it would have no bearing on anyone else other than my employer. You wonder why there is resentment toward the public sector if they intend to use the rest of us as pawns in their games.
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Thats just the way it is, it's always going to be that way, it has a bigger effect becasue it effects the community, and actually i think there is more support for the public sector than resentment.
Most people aren't just being fed what they read in the media and can see the real issue, it's just those that are adamant they shouldn't have to suffer a day looking after their own children that should go back to sleep.
anyway I have made all my points in the other thread on this so there's no point regurgitating them again and again. Thats the last i'll be saying in this thread
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Local branch officials aren't paid by the union and would have lost money. Union employees weren't on strike nor should they have been - they're working to support their striking members.
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My holidays are precious to me and I want to use them how I want, not save a few days just 'cause disgruntled public sector workers decided to strike. I'd rather have the time off under my terms to spend with my kids in warmer weather when we can make better use of the time.
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Some interesting developments, showing media spin is in full effect. Several unions sent out emails to members saying that they are not accepting the offer being put and that advising to prepare for more industrial action. Funny how the media is reporting it as everyone accepting it.
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nilagin said:
Fine, if someone isn't doing their job, take that up with them, don't go punishing all the public sector workers!
This argument isn't about people not working up to a standard, this is about government robbing us of pensions that we have worked and paid for.
Remember as well, unions also represent employees in private firms, who like other union members have a legal right to take industrial action.
This was not an easy decision for staff. Both my wife and myself work for the nhs and we're not happy to be losing 2 days wages, especially at this time of the year, but felt it was an important issue.
You got inconvienced for a day, we're facing the real prospect of taking a wage cut, which will effect us for our whole working life.
John, is it a wage cut or are you being asked to pay more into the pension fund as I think that is slightly different but if you come up with facts to say you are facing a wage cut then I will observe them honourably.
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johnnypanic said:
You don't seem to understand that a lot of the private sector have had pay cuts, pension cuts and their pension fund reduced.
The private sector has to pay for their own pensions and risks. The public sector contribute less in general than private so you then take action designed to disrupt the lives and income of others.
I'm suprised you get any support at all.
The whole world is facing cuts, why should the public sector be any different?
That is what the whole of the private sector are saying.
The public sector has come across very selfish over this. No one wants a pay cut, but this is how we the world is at the moment. Everyone is having to take paycuts, voluntary redundancy, take on more work etc. Others are losing jobs.
The public sectors wages aren't being dropped, their take home is dropping as they are contributing more to their pension. They are getting a slightly worse pension, that is still a very very good pension.
How about taking one for the team public sector workers like the rest of the uk have already to keep the country going?
In my brief noticing of the stupid issue, not once have I heard anyone on the public workers side talk about anything more than "Me, me, me" and how they will lose a little each month and have a slightly worse pension. There is a bigger picture.
That is what the whole of the private sector are saying.
The public sector has come across very selfish over this. No one wants a pay cut, but this is how we the world is at the moment. Everyone is having to take paycuts, voluntary redundancy, take on more work etc. Others are losing jobs.
The public sectors wages aren't being dropped, their take home is dropping as they are contributing more to their pension. They are getting a slightly worse pension, that is still a very very good pension.
How about taking one for the team public sector workers like the rest of the uk have already to keep the country going?
In my brief noticing of the stupid issue, not once have I heard anyone on the public workers side talk about anything more than "Me, me, me" and how they will lose a little each month and have a slightly worse pension. There is a bigger picture.
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Yes we are being asked to pay more into our pension, work longer and get less. It is an effective pay cut. Between my wife and myself, we will be taking a significant hit
in our monthly wage.
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Public sector workers, or at least most of them, are sensible enough to understand the current financial situation. We not saying that we should be treated specially, but we should be treated fairly. This is like an additional tax on public sector workers to pay for the deficit.
By the way, it's not a little each month, it's enough that, especially the lower paid workers, will most likely have to make a decision to abandon their pension.
Of course you may feel we are being selfish complaining about something that is significant and has a direct bearing on our standard of living, but how else do you expect us to react?
Let's also not forget, the massive job loses and freeze in pay, something that we were also striking for, so it's not all being selfish, it is standing up for a service that we believe in.
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The NHS fund is not in profit as the the NHS pension is paid out of general taxation and thus there is no actual NHS Pension fund. As the workers of today pay for those who have already retired, there is more money going in than coming out because over the last 10 years there has been a large increase in the numbers of workers, but in time all those willl need to be paid a pension, at that time the money out will be massively more than the in.
Unlike the private sector you DO NOT pay for ALL your pension, you pay for part of your public sector pension the rest of the glit edged, gold plated pension is topped up from general taxation that we all pay into.
Funny how all those in the public sector are bleating about having to work longer and get less, kept their mouths shut when Labour increased the state pension age for everyone else, and never said a damn word when Gordon Brown reduced private pension tax relief, taking what is now estamated to be £200BN out of private pension funds to he could spend it on lavash public sector wage rises and pensions.
If you don't like the terms of your public sector pension then leave the scheme and join a private one like the rest of us.
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Come to my place of work then and ttalk to anybody who works here and we will open your eyes to what we really think about the public sector strike.
Your not going to like what you hear.