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Unions agree deal on Pensions
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towershot
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Workers need a union or management walk all over workers.
Unions need workers or management take no notice of them.
Management and union have meetings ,drink coffee and then pat each other on the back and agree to scr@w the workers........:shrug:
It's a fact of life...:bang:
Unions need workers or management take no notice of them.
Management and union have meetings ,drink coffee and then pat each other on the back and agree to scr@w the workers........:shrug:
It's a fact of life...:bang:
The government were not brought back......the Unions went back as negotiations were ongoing at the time of the strikes....get your facts right.
As to balloting their members...how come they can ballot all the members to accept a deal but don't have to ballot all the members to go out on strike....double standards.
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Meaningful negotiations were not taking place.
Unions do ballot all members for strike action :nono:
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They DID ballot all members. Whether all members took part in the ballot is another matter and one for individual conscience. The same will apply to a ballot for acceptance of the offer.
As for the negotiations, the government weren't negotiating they'd stated a position, the position was put to the union members and the members that responded opted to withdraw labour for a day to reinforce their case. Democracy in action.
As for the negotiations, the government weren't negotiating they'd stated a position, the position was put to the union members and the members that responded opted to withdraw labour for a day to reinforce their case. Democracy in action.
joescrivens
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yes, it probably gave the unions more bargaining power to make the government offer better terms.
My wife did not receive a ballot paper or a choice on the matter, she did not want to strike but her school still closed and she had to stay away. How is that balloting all it's members?
The reason why Labour did not support the strike is because negotiations were ongoing.
Now there will be a rift in the TUC because some unions will accept the deals and some not which only make unions weaker.
A poor turnout of demonstrators and picketers proved that most union members were not in favour of strike action but had to go on strike because of matters beyond their control like my wife's situation.
I am still trying to find a strike that solved problems in the long term.
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Then she should have contacted her union and asked to be sent one. The unions made it pretty clear that they'd be balloting.
Negotiations weren't ongoing, they'd stalled. Different matter entirely. If the government had resumed negotiations in good faith then the unions would have called the strike day off.
It wasn't a poor turnout at all. The numbers on strike were sufficient to close many schools and offices. The demos were well attended from what I saw in the press and there were pickets almost everywhere. Numbers on picket lines are restricted by the way - the COP recommends 6 per entrance as a maximum.
Negotiations weren't ongoing, they'd stalled. Different matter entirely. If the government had resumed negotiations in good faith then the unions would have called the strike day off.
It wasn't a poor turnout at all. The numbers on strike were sufficient to close many schools and offices. The demos were well attended from what I saw in the press and there were pickets almost everywhere. Numbers on picket lines are restricted by the way - the COP recommends 6 per entrance as a maximum.
My wife's scenario, caretaker wanted to strike, different union than my wife, the school had to close because the caretaker wanted to strike. The school were informed that because there would be no caretaker they could not access school property.
Hardly well supported but 1 person caused countless disruptions for many and deprived school children their educational right.
As per usual with strikers, they only think of themselves.
As was reported in countless news articles, many 'strikers' were in fact Christmas shopping, my wife included.
joescrivens
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did you wife still get paid since it wasnt her choice to strike?
Photodiva
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It may have escaped your notice, but if union members who strike achieve better terms for employees pensions etc, then EVERYONE benefits, even those who aren't members of the union and those who chose not to strike. Where I work there are at least 4 unions, and generally the one for the senior management rarely voices a view, but in this case all voted for action.
When I get 'chugged' in London I tell them, sorry no spare money, Public Sector worker!
When I get 'chugged' in London I tell them, sorry no spare money, Public Sector worker!
joescrivens
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more fool her then for not following it up with her union
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All your wife had to do was to make sure that her manager knew that she wanted to work and wouldn't be striking - she'd have been paid then. It's not her problem if she'd had to be sent home because the employer couldn't keep her place of work open. If she'd have contacted her union they'd have told her that too.
As for strikers thinking of themselves well, no. You strike in support of yourself and your colleagues and you lose a day's pay for the privilege. As for inconvenience, isn't that the point of withdrawing labour? To make a point by causing inconvenience to the employer? Yes, the public may be inconvenienced too but a day without whatever doesn't usually compare to the reason that a strike has been called and it may just draw attention to the problem as well.
Christmas shopping? So what? They're on strike and unpaid. The employer has no call on them and their time is their own. A lot of strikers went on demonstrations instead. Some stayed at home to look after their own children, some went on picket duty.
I can see you've got a bit of an axe to grind here but strike action is the last resort of employees when negotiations break down. Nobody likes to do it but it can be effective.
As for strikers thinking of themselves well, no. You strike in support of yourself and your colleagues and you lose a day's pay for the privilege. As for inconvenience, isn't that the point of withdrawing labour? To make a point by causing inconvenience to the employer? Yes, the public may be inconvenienced too but a day without whatever doesn't usually compare to the reason that a strike has been called and it may just draw attention to the problem as well.
Christmas shopping? So what? They're on strike and unpaid. The employer has no call on them and their time is their own. A lot of strikers went on demonstrations instead. Some stayed at home to look after their own children, some went on picket duty.
I can see you've got a bit of an axe to grind here but strike action is the last resort of employees when negotiations break down. Nobody likes to do it but it can be effective.
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That's sweeping statement and very unfair. I was on strike that day. That's the first and only time I've been on strike in almost 40 years of working. The government's pension changes won't affect me personally very much, but I was incensed by two things:
1. The misinformation and smears put out by the government and certain sections of the press.
2. That many low paid workers are having a modest pension substantially reduced while having to pay a lot more for it.
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Nope, not true. She needs to take it up with HR, as she did not strike, she was off due to action taking place, not part of said action. If she didn't do this, then her fault.
She maybe wan't selfish by striking, but I am sure she will be happy to benefit from the new deals being agreed.
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There is a proportionality aspect. If I strike, it inconveniences my employer a little, no more that if I use a day's annual holiday. It doesn't affect members of the public at all. In the public sector, strikes have a knock on effect that goes way beyond inconveniencing the employer (LEA, local council or whatever) and affects the lives of millions that are not party to the original dispute.
Further, if the government announces a tax change on private pensions that adversely affects anticipated retirement income as part of a budget (this happened, 17th March 1998, the day Gordon Brown killed saving for retirement in the private sector), as a private sector worker I cannot strike. It's not a dispute with my employer and beyond his ability to resolve, so I have no grounds for strike action. Again, a disproportionate amount of power is wielded by the public sector unions in this respect as well.
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That's a matter of opinion, I'm afraid. My employer is effectively threatening to renege on a contract I established with them a long time ago. It's a pity that the strike affected the public for a day but while we're talking about proportionality, it potentially affects me and my colleagues for the entire period of our retirement. No contest I'm afraid.
joescrivens
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theres the rub.
us private sector workers got inconvenienced for 1 day and we're still bleating on about it.
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I think you are deflecting your anger at the wrong group, i.e. public sector workers and their unions. Just because they "dare" complaint about this very crucial issue you as a private worker seem annoyed. Why :shrug:
You've every right to be annoyed at the issues affecting private sector pensions and I agree you have less "power" to take action, but that is not the fault of the public sector workers or unions.
All these private workers that bleat about how good it is in the public sector, why haven't they gone and got a job there.......... oh yes, that's right, government is putting thousands of public sector workers on the dole.
The other thing that annoys me is the idea that we are being given this wonderful pension. It's not wonderful and I've being paying the last 25 years towards mine, yes that's right, deferring my wages to pay for my pension.
Rant over and Merry Christmas to all private and public sector workers alike
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Not really true, as the money for the pensions comes from everyone paying taxes, so it does have an impact longer than one day.
joescrivens
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that effects everyone, public sectors too, they pay the same taxes as you and I.
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Yeh! But they'll get some back in the form of their pension, we'll get sweet FA.
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I know, I didn't say otherwise, just pointing out that people are not only complaining about the one day disruption.
joescrivens
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really? Would you rather be treated in hospital by a nurse who values her job and feels there is something at the end of it for her, or one who is not happy and feels like she isn't being given the right working conditions?
how about your childrens education? want them to be educated by teachers who feel the government are going back on something they agreed?
I think you'll find a happy public sector has many many effects on our lives
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So basically, you're saying we should all pay more in tax which will make us unhappy, just so the government can keep their promises to public sector workers to keep them happy.really? Would you rather be treated in hospital by a nurse who values her job and feels there is something at the end of it for her, or one who is not happy and feels like she isn't being given the right working conditions?
how about your childrens education? want them to be educated by teachers who feel the government are going back on something they agreed?
I think you'll find a happy public sector has many many effects on our lives
really? Would you rather be treated in hospital by a nurse who values her job and feels there is something at the end of it for her, or one who is not happy and feels like she isn't being given the right working conditions?
how about your childrens education? want them to be educated by teachers who feel the government are going back on something they agreed?
I think you'll find a happy public sector has many many effects on our lives
So you are saying teachers and nurses only do that job because they get a nice pension......
Being close to both professions...I know that majority of them do it because they love their job, nothing to do with pension and money.
joescrivens
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Am I? The only thing? Pretty sure I didn't say it was the only thing.
Or am I saying this is one of the things they are working for? Yes, that's what I am saying.
Having been one of the public sector workers and being married to one. Loving your job gets less important when the job goes further and further downhill
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nilagin said:
I'm an NHS worker, I don't need you to pay any extra taxes to fund my pension, it's already in profit, which the government creams off each year. I pay for my pension, it's not some sort of gift I'm given, it is something I have paid for, for over 25 years! I'm being asked to work longer, pay more and get less and some people still think we shouldn't be upset about that.
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So next time you decide to take industrial action, you won't mind your actions not effecting the private sector then will you.
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So next time you decide to take industrial action, you won't mind your actions not effecting the private sector then will you.
Industrial action, wouldn't be much point to it if it didn't have an effect.
But the problem is that you were getting too much into your pension in the first place.
I wonder what our wage structure is like for public workers compared to other nations...I know for a fact that our teachers are among the highest earners (not having a go at teachers but I know a bit more about them than other public sector workers). You cannot compare healthcare workers as easily as most other countries do not operate a state run service.
joescrivens
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And look how our education system is also compared to other nations. Very favourably so maybe it's a good thing that our teachers are paid higher than other nations?
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But it probably had more of an effect on the rest of us rather than the government and you wonder why you get so little support or sympathy.
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Yes, but every independent study has concluded that to get the best teachers the wage needs to be raised to get "Top graduates" that Gove wants. They also in countries like Korea et al put in huge support compared to here. Teachers are no longer respected, we "d no work and get paid loads with a gold plated pension" as has been said on here so many times.
There is no respect for the public sector, which is where the problems start. If you feel undervalued, underpaid and in conditions that seem to constantly get worse (see what is happening to SEN for starters) then the best people will leave the job and less quality will ensue. Note for example the rise in corruption in prisons of officers in relation to the working conditions and pay.
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What effect on you personally did it have?
Defiance
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Please no, not the whole teacher debate again !!
It's very simple really.
Pensions are going to cost more money whether we like it or not or agree with the reasons or not.
Private sector workers have to pay more for theirs and don't want to pay even more on top to support public sector pensions, especially when public sector pension benefits are often better.
Public sector workers therefore have to make the same choice as everyone else - pay more of get less.
Alternatively, come and work in the private sector and see if it's any better - may be a nasty surprise.
It's very simple really.
Pensions are going to cost more money whether we like it or not or agree with the reasons or not.
Private sector workers have to pay more for theirs and don't want to pay even more on top to support public sector pensions, especially when public sector pension benefits are often better.
Public sector workers therefore have to make the same choice as everyone else - pay more of get less.
Alternatively, come and work in the private sector and see if it's any better - may be a nasty surprise.