'Upgrade' to full frame? And which camera?

Will James

Will James

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Will
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Having done plenty of research on these forums, YouTube and online for reviews, I’d like to get some of your advice on what I should do next regarding my kit as I’m sure you have been through the same steps as me and I’m not sure to which extent I should upgrade l my kit at this stage.

My current kit:
Canon 500d (has for 10 years) - my first DSLR. Lenses: Sigma 17-50 2.8, Tamron 70-300, 50 1.8, 430EX II flash light, gorillapod!

I’m relatively time-poor (travel with work a lot) and don’t get as much time as I’d like to take photos and edit/go through them but when I do, I love it. Generally take landscape shots, some motorsport and also really keen to get more into portraits.

Full frame appeals to me due to the image quality, dynamic range and if I will do it as a second step in the future I might as well do it now if I can afford it and have low switching costs i.e. I don’t already have a big investment in Canon or Nikon kit)..that’s my line of thinking anyway.

From the reviews I’ve seen, there are three cameras which seem to be talked highly of for FF - Sony A7iii, Canon EOS R and Fuji XT3. My mind (heart!) tells me I want the get the Sony A7iii but given the lenses are expensive I’d have to build kit gradually over time and have just the kit lens to start with.

Feelings about my kit - I need an upgrade because
1. Camera has marks on the sensor which cannot be cleaned/repaired so I need to change cameras regardless.
2. I feel the dynamic range of my camera is very limited and my ‘workflow’ is very manual which could both be rectified by getting a FF e.g. merging bracketed exposures in lightroom. Since I’m time-poor I need to get it right first time and as much in-camera as possible.
3. I’m longing for better image quality and sharpness

What would you get (or have you got) if you were in my situation? For the time being I don’t want to spend more than ~£2k of investment, and could get additional lenses next year.

Thanks
Will
 
'Upgrade'is the wrong word. Change is the correct word.

This topic has been done to the death many times on TP.

:exit:
 
Firstly X-T3 is APS-C
If you think Sony is expensive I am not sure what you'd call canon RF lenses ;)

If you are on a budget I'd suggest Sony since there are many 3rd party options, healthier used market and best for dynamic range out the bodies you mentioned.
 
Will James said:
I’m relatively time-poor (travel with work a lot)
Click to expand...
I was in exactly that position for several years. The best camera in the world is useless if you can't take it with you because it's too big or too heavy. I looked for good quality compacts instead and found that there were a lot of cases where I could get pictures when carrying a bigger camera wouldn't have been appropriate to my job.

Just another thing to consider.
 
nandbytes said:
Firstly X-T3 is APS-C
If you think Sony is expensive I am not sure what you'd call canon RF lenses ;)

If you are on a budget I'd suggest Sony since there are many 3rd party options, healthier used market and best for dynamic range out the bodies you mentioned.
Click to expand...

Very true, the rf lenses are so expensive but canon has native performance adapted ef, so can also be much cheaper.
 
twist said:
Very true, the rf lenses are so expensive but canon has native performance adapted ef, so can also be much cheaper.
Click to expand...
Can be adapted to e-mount also. But adapters are bit of a kludge.
 
nandbytes said:
Can be adapted to e-mount also. But adapters are bit of a kludge.
Click to expand...

E mount adapted EF doesn't offer native performance or the same level of compatibility. Not really, if user only uses 1 mount then they leave the adapter on the body, if user uses various mounts they leave the adapter on the lens, not like rf/ef adapters are expensive, even if the user requires 2 or 3.
 
twist said:
E mount adapted EF doesn't offer native performance or the same level of compatibility. Not really, if user only uses 1 mount then they leave the adapter on the body, if user uses various mounts they leave the adapter on the lens, not like rf/ef adapters are expensive, even if the user requires 2 or 3.
Click to expand...

I don't really know how native like all the lenses perform to comment. I certainly hear good things about it. And you are right one could buy 2-3 adapters for the price of one EF-e-mount adapter and leave it on the lens.
While for smaller lenses that could work well, for larger lenses (sigma arts for example) I wouldn't be too keen. I know you use sigma arts but the e-mount versions with built in hollow tube didn't feel well balanced to me. But of course this is personal others may be fine with it.
 
nandbytes said:
I don't really know how native like all the lenses perform to comment. I certainly hear good things about it. And you are right one could buy 2-3 adapters for the price of one EF-e-mount adapter and leave it on the lens.
While for smaller lenses that could work well, for larger lenses (sigma arts for example) I wouldn't be too keen. I know you use sigma arts but the e-mount versions with built in hollow tube didn't feel well balanced to me. But of course this is personal others may be fine with it.
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The additionall weight/length helps the lens balance better on these lighter bodies and gives more clearance for fingers round the grip (not a problem on the R/RP but I know some complain about the Sonys). The e mount sigma are longer than the ef version inc adapter.
 
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nandbytes said:
Firstly X-T3 is APS-C
If you think Sony is expensive I am not sure what you'd call canon RF lenses ;)

If you are on a budget I'd suggest Sony since there are many 3rd party options, healthier used market and best for dynamic range out the bodies you mentioned.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. And what would you recommend if I wasn’t on a budget?
 
hunnymonster said:
Have you actually held them all? Regardless of anything else, if you don't like the feel then it probably won't see as much action. (oo-er missus)
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[emoji1]

No I haven’t to be honest, I will hire some for a couple of days first - thanks for the tip
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I was in exactly that position for several years. The best camera in the world is useless if you can't take it with you because it's too big or too heavy. I looked for good quality compacts instead and found that there were a lot of cases where I could get pictures when carrying a bigger camera wouldn't have been appropriate to my job.

Just another thing to consider.
Click to expand...

Which compact did you end up going with for these situations?
 
Will James said:
Thanks for the advice. And what would you recommend if I wasn’t on a budget?
Click to expand...

actually the deal here was really good - https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/another-sony-sale-last-price-cut.709040/
he might still sell both body+lens if you ask nicely ;)

on a budget I'd probably look for lenses along the lines of Sony 24-105mm, samyang AF primes if you don't need to shoot much tracking/action, tamron 28-75, tamron 17-28mm etc.
If you weren't on a budget, get the GFX100 or the A7RIV with each systems top of line lenses :D (in case of Sony most bases are covered and there are options for most things now)
Since you seem to care about dynamic range Sony sensors are still ahead of the game in this area.
 
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Will James said:
Which compact did you end up going with for these situations?
Click to expand...
I went through several. I now have a pair of Panasonic GM5 bodies with a 12-32 and a 35-100. I also have a Panasonic TZ70 superzoom in my pocket at all times. There are many alternatives which may suit you better.
 
Will,

If you want to get into FF on a budget have a look at the original A7. It's cheap new so used prices must be very reasonable. It's not a camera for fast action and responsiveness is perhaps best described as adequate for leisurely use but it may be adequate for your needs.
 
My budget wasn't quite as great as your's. so I went for the A7ii. It was about 6 months before I added a native lens to it, as it works very well with adapted lenses. :)
 
Will James said:
Having done plenty of research on these forums, YouTube and online for reviews, I’d like to get some of your advice on what I should do next regarding my kit as I’m sure you have been through the same steps as me and I’m not sure to which extent I should upgrade l my kit at this stage.

My current kit:
Canon 500d (has for 10 years) - my first DSLR. Lenses: Sigma 17-50 2.8, Tamron 70-300, 50 1.8, 430EX II flash light, gorillapod!

I’m relatively time-poor (travel with work a lot) and don’t get as much time as I’d like to take photos and edit/go through them but when I do, I love it. Generally take landscape shots, some motorsport and also really keen to get more into portraits.

Full frame appeals to me due to the image quality, dynamic range and if I will do it as a second step in the future I might as well do it now if I can afford it and have low switching costs i.e. I don’t already have a big investment in Canon or Nikon kit)..that’s my line of thinking anyway.

From the reviews I’ve seen, there are three cameras which seem to be talked highly of for FF - Sony A7iii, Canon EOS R and Fuji XT3. My mind (heart!) tells me I want the get the Sony A7iii but given the lenses are expensive I’d have to build kit gradually over time and have just the kit lens to start with.

Feelings about my kit - I need an upgrade because
1. Camera has marks on the sensor which cannot be cleaned/repaired so I need to change cameras regardless.
2. I feel the dynamic range of my camera is very limited and my ‘workflow’ is very manual which could both be rectified by getting a FF e.g. merging bracketed exposures in lightroom. Since I’m time-poor I need to get it right first time and as much in-camera as possible.
3. I’m longing for better image quality and sharpness

What would you get (or have you got) if you were in my situation? For the time being I don’t want to spend more than ~£2k of investment, and could get additional lenses next year.

Thanks
Will
Click to expand...

Wait a few weeks. That's what I'm doing.

With your current kit, the obvious option is Canon (eg EOS R with 24-105, sell the Sigma 17-50 and replace your other lenses as and when) but the Canon range is due for a major shake-up in the next month with the EOS R5 and R6. We know a lot about the R5 (fabulous but pricey) and enough about the R6 to believe that it's going to lead the mid enthusiast sector. The R6 appears to be specc'd above the EOS R but only slightly, which means (my guess) that either the EOS R will reduce in price or may even be phased out.

The R5 and R6 look like the kind of market-leading mirrorless cameras we always expected from Canon, and they're already making the EOS R look like something of a stop-gap. It'll be interesting to see how Sony and Nikon respond, as they surely will, but realistically that could be months away.

Here's what Tony Northrup thinks
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ0szXWqhC8
 
Why on earth do people insist on referring to the Northrups? genuine question ... because TN in particular swings and switches his opinions every other video, he is NOT a reliable source so please stop using him as one when trying help beginners [in this case a beginner jump to FF] - to me that's irresponsible.
 
shapeshifter said:
'Upgrade'is the wrong word. Change is the correct word.

This topic has been done to the death many times on TP.

:exit:
Click to expand...

I think the term comes from the computer age, when we all needed the computer to hold more stuff, or run faster. We were often told that we needed to upgrade the computer, by adding more memory etc. Now, when we need to shoot faster or want better IQ in our photos, we think we need a better camera. So we think we need to upgrade our camera, when in fact we don't upgrade our current camera's internal electronics, we simply change it for a better spec camera.


I wonder if I have been guilty in saying upgrade incorrectly, quite possibly. :)
 
IMO anything Canon bring out is going to struggle to match the value of the A7III, they might be as good, but they'll be much more expensive.

I'd look at Sony, the mass of third party native mount lenses has made the system accessible for many.
 
TGphoto said:
IMO anything Canon bring out is going to struggle to match the value of the A7III, they might be as good, but they'll be much more expensive.

I'd look at Sony, the mass of third party native mount lenses has made the system accessible for many.
Click to expand...

A7III has been out a while it'll be cheaper than a newly released high end FF body.
 
With your 2K budget I'd look at the A7III and Tamron 28-70 as suggested, or even pick up a used 'kit' 28-70 for about £130ish and add more lenses as suitable/affordable. I switched to an A7III just over a year ago, along with 24-105 as the starting point.
 
Will James said:
Thanks for the advice. And what would you recommend if I wasn’t on a budget?
Click to expand...

I'd recommend the latest A7R4 and the G master 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 and a few otus primes to go with the 60.1mp body.

Or go the whole hog and get the 100mp Fuji medium format system and the very best glass they offer to go with.
 
Cagey75 said:
Why on earth do people insist on referring to the Northrups? genuine question ... because TN in particular swings and switches his opinions every other video, he is NOT a reliable source so please stop using him as one when trying help beginners [in this case a beginner jump to FF] - to me that's irresponsible.
Click to expand...

Genuine answer - because he usually agrees with me! He knows his stuff and presents it clearly. And, obviously, he's gorgeous.

Irresponsible? That link is bang on topic, and discusses big changes that are weeks away from impacting the OP's decision. It would be irresponsible not to point that out.
 
jondc said:
I went from a Fuji XT1 to a Sony A7. I miss the controls of the Fuji but the Sony A7 dynamic range is great. The a7iii spec looks a lot better but as I don't want to change from LR6 cannot go for one. The a7iii is tempting though.

https://www.wexphotovideo.com/sony-...MI4LPf6bHi6AIVCLrtCh2PCA1aEAUYAiABEgLGpfD_BwE
Click to expand...

Why is LR6 an issue?

If it's because it wont recognise Sony A7III raws you could convert them to DNG and then there should be no problem. I'm using CS5 which possibly predates the Box Brownie but manages DNG's ok. It is an extra step but not to much of a one IMO.

If that's not the issue then ignore everything I've just said :D
 
TGphoto said:
The R5 or R6 are you referring to?

Think the biggest issue with Canon is that the RF lenses are astronomical.
Click to expand...

both

yes a lot of them are very expensive. I imagine Sigma will soon jump on board though.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. Im still open-minded about what I will use the camera for, I’m still discovering...hence the need for an ‘all-rounder’. I love hiking when travelling and therefore tend to shoot landscapes mostly but want to dabble into other types.

For a similar price range I am looking at, curious to see if any of you decided not to go for full frame and instead went for a higher end APS-C before going to FF. Is there benefit to be had from me doing this instead?

Or for a similar price range have any of you opted for other brands when seriously considering Sony mirrorless FF, apart from the reason of having already invested heavily in glass so it made sense to stay with the current system?

Has anyone regretted going from APS-C to full frame, speaking in an amateur / enthusiast capacity?
 
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It really does depend on what you intend to shoot with it. I know that's just repeating comments already made.

I shoot mainly landscape type images (check my Flickr or Instagram to give you an idea)

I use an original A7 (since 2014/15) and mainly the Voigtländer 40/1.2 :) I also have the 21mm Voigtlander and the FE85. I reckon that's about 2 grands worth of kit if you buy sensible.

I thought the A7 kit lens 28-70mm performed pretty well stopped down a bit if you shoot landscapes that way. That's probably £600 worth? Add the 85mm to spend a grand.

Not an expensive way into FF mirrorless really. Obviously this is presuming you aren't shooting things that move quickly and face detect is enough for you.
 
Why not just a 90D. With a 10 year old camera anything will be a huge "upgrade" and by the time next camera change is due the market will have settled in. All the big players will have all the lenses for their cameras and the used market will start tu saturate.
 
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