Using Flash on Manual (was... Off Camera Flash)

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Really sorry, as I'm sure this has been mentioned a billion times, but I cant get the search function to find what I want. Can someone tell me what options (with a rough price) are available for off camera flash.

I think...

1. Cheap cable no ETTL
2. Expensive cable retain ETTL
3. Cordless

Is there various cordless? Is it a waste of time buying a cable, because in 6 months time you might find it limiting?

Oh... Canon 400D with 580EX II if that makes any odds.
 
i bought the one from jessops, cost about 28 quid (i think) its a new one they have and is better than the old one, full ETTL
 
If you are going for off camera flash you will probably move towards complete manual control over it, ETTL is great but once you start introducing multiple lights it won't always react as you would expect. With similar equipment I started off with cheap ebay triggers for about £20-25 that would do cordless firing but with the 580 and 480 I couldn't get them to consistently work. I have a couple of 540 ezs that work really well with them. Now I am moving onto pocket wizards which though expensive are brilliant and have amazing re-sale value. If you can afford to layout the cash (£330 for a set in uk or £230 from hong kong, that is for 2, you need an extra one for each flash you want to fire) you can sell them on for almost what you bought them for.
 
hi i just bought the Cactus V2s from hong kong just tried it and boy does it work, using it with my new flash diffuser, i mounted it on the tripod adapter that it came with, very good up to now, very impressed great for portrait shoots or staged shoots well worth the £21.00 quid. and you can use it in all settings not just manual, but the flash will not zoom with the camera:( but i new that:) the defusser works great and has 4 different colors they where brought separate by the way. flash deffusser £10 quid (four colours) wireless flash £21 and a whole new world of photography.

regards mark
 
Like blazzar says, if you go off-camera you really want to be using the flashes in manual. You can use any (except minolta/sony) cable that fits the hotshoe, as long as you snip the cables inside to disable the ttl if it isn't the one for your make of camera- I have done this with a Nikon one so that I can use it on my g9, but if you snip the wrong wires you'll knacker the cable ;)

The cheapest route, if your camera and flash have the relevant connections is a pc cord - costs about a fiver.

The most popular option is a set of the "ebay" wireless triggers- £20 or so delivered. They're not the most reliable things in the world, but are a good introduction to the subject
 
I have eBay V2 triggers and in my experience they are rubbish. I know some people get lucky and end up with a good working set but many people do not. I bought a trigger and three receivers. One receiver was DOA and needed replacing. One receiver will only work if I remove the battery cover from it. If it is in place it seems like a dry joint gets opened up or something and it simply refuses to work. I also suffer from random triggering, despite trying all channel combinations, and sometimes a failure to fire by one or both slave units. I've bought brand new batteries for all my units and it has not improved things at all. Money down the drain, for me.

On the other hand, my £15.47 eBay off camera ETTL sync cords (I have two) have worked perfectly, allowing manual or ETTL use of the camera and flash with my flash brackets etc..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Off-Camera-E-...=39:1|66:4|65:2|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

If I want to go seriously off camera then I can use one of my 580EXs to trigger my other 580EX. The master unit can be on my camera or slightly off camera, on the end of my ETTL sync cord.
 
tdodd said:
One receiver will only work if I remove the battery cover from it. If it is in place it seems like a dry joint gets opened up or something and it simply refuses to work.
Click to expand...

That's a common problem and takes all of 2 seconds to fix.......

It is caused by the plastic tab on the cover pushing against the battery post,take the cover off, remove the battery and push the post slightly inwards. refit the battery, put the top back on and all should now be well ;)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
That's a common problem and takes all of 2 seconds to fix.......

It is caused by the plastic tab on the cover pushing against the battery post,take the cover off, remove the battery and push the post slightly inwards. refit the battery, put the top back on and all should now be well ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into that. But that's not my real concern. The bigger issue I have is the random firing and failure to fire, even in a small room around 13' by 12' (domestic dining room), with trigger and sender no more than maybe 9' apart with a clear line of sight betwen them. That is ridiculously poor performance.

To satisfy the casual curiosity of an amateur that might be good enough, but if you actually want to get a job done, with a model, or clients on site, they are next to useless - just too embarrassing and annoying for words.
 
tdodd said:
The bigger issue I have is the random firing and failure to fire, even in a small room around 13' by 12' (domestic dining room), with trigger and sender no more than maybe 9' apart with a clear line of sight betwen them. That is ridiculously poor performance.

To satisfy the casual curiosity of an amateur that might be good enough, but if you actually want to get a job done, with a model, or clients on site, they are next to useless - just too embarrassing and annoying for words.
Click to expand...

The misfiring tends to be caused by the poor quality bit of tin on the hotshoe, which causes intermitent breaking of contact and again this can be sorted easily enough.

Of course the answer is to invest in something like a set of Pocket Wizards, but that will cost you between £2-300 against £20 for the Cactus triggers.

You pays your money.........
 
I'd be surprised if anyone would recommend them for paid work. I got them really just to learn and they've been great for that. I modded them which imporved performance greatly but I'd still get the skyports (PWs are just too damn expensive) for paid work.
 
ranarama said:
I'd be surprised if anyone would recommend them for paid work. I got them really just to learn and they've been great for that. I modded them which imporved performance greatly but I'd still get the skyports (PWs are just too damn expensive) for paid work.
Click to expand...

I bought my PWs from HK and even after paying the vat and duty they were no more expensive than a set of Skyports. In fact as I had a voucher for the seller they worked out a lot cheaper.....
 
ranarama said:
I'd be surprised if anyone would recommend them for paid work. I got them really just to learn and they've been great for that. I modded them which imporved performance greatly but I'd still get the skyports (PWs are just too damn expensive) for paid work.
Click to expand...

Depends how much you're earning, depends how much you want to offset against tax and how into gadgets you are.

Inexpensive triggers can be a very effective solution, especially if you buy a second/third pair to use as spares in the event of a failure.
 
ranarama said:
I'd be surprised if anyone would recommend them for paid work. I got them really just to learn and they've been great for that. I modded them which imporved performance greatly but I'd still get the skyports (PWs are just too damn expensive) for paid work.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I also bought mine as a curiosity, and to learn, and have found that they are far from fit for commercial use. I'm still considering my options for a decent wireless setup. PWs are way too dear. I've looked at Skyports and also Cybersyncs - http://www.alienbees.com/cybersync.html - but I am still undecided. As I shoot Canon I'm also considering the ST-E2 wireless control, or simply another 580EX, or some 430EXs as slaves. I already have two 580EXs and triggering one from the other is no problem, with or without ETTL. Direct control of ratios/strengths from the camera is also quite nice, especially with a remote setup for wildlife.

At the moment I have little need for any sort of wireless solution, but when I make the jump I will be looking for a good balance between performance and value for money.
 
I bought one of the chinese sync leads (ebay no 270270092278) for about £20. Works a treat.
 
Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Depends how much you're earning, depends how much you want to offset against tax and how into gadgets you are.

Inexpensive triggers can be a very effective solution, especially if you buy a second/third pair to use as spares in the event of a failure.
Click to expand...

Also depends if you want to turn up at a shoot and have your flashes firing randomly or not firing every time you press the shutter. I'll keep mine as back up when I eventually upgrade, like I've kept my 350D as a backup, but I certainly wouldn't choose to use it as my primary camera for a paid shoot.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
The Cactus V2s will only give you manual operation of the flash settings, it will not interface with the camera's ttl metering.......
Click to expand...

correct but it still works in all settings :) thats why i got the diffuser,(y)

regards Mark

tdodd said:
I have eBay V2 triggers and in my experience they are rubbish. I know some people get lucky and end up with a good working set but many people do not. I bought a trigger and three receivers. One receiver was DOA and needed replacing. One receiver will only work if I remove the battery cover from it. If it is in place it seems like a dry joint gets opened up or something and it simply refuses to work. I also suffer from random triggering, despite trying all channel combinations, and sometimes a failure to fire by one or both slave units. I've bought brand new batteries for all my units and it has not improved things at all. Money down the drain, for me.

On the other hand, my £15.47 eBay off camera ETTL sync cords (I have two) have worked perfectly, allowing manual or ETTL use of the camera and flash with my flash brackets etc..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Off-Camera-E-...=39:1|66:4|65:2|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

If I want to go seriously off camera then I can use one of my 580EXs to trigger my other 580EX. The master unit can be on my camera or slightly off camera, on the end of my ETTL sync cord.
Click to expand...

Hi the first reason i got these is beggars can not be choosers:crying:,

The second is i can not have a lead getting in the way of my wheelchair:(, i am a hobbyist photographer (y) who will just take the odd shot so this is a great version for me.:razz:


I did not realize that 68lBs is using it for payed work, it's far to unreliable for that, but as of yet has not let me down Yet:) and for my Hi-Key work it's going to be great, i am also going to in-vest in a home studio lighting kit and back drop there are many threads on here about them, but as a starter kit this is great value for me...

Kind Regards mark.
 
mercmanuk said:
I did not realize that 68lBs is using it for payed work...
Click to expand...

I wish! Don't think anyone would pay for my 'skills'! :LOL:

I've let this thread run along because at this stage I'm like a sponge trying to retain as much photography related info as possible, but my original question wasn't 'debate the worthiness of cheap ebay cactus triggers'. I just wanted to know what the options/costs are for off-camera flash, and whether i'd be likely to outgrow any of the options. :)

From what I've read here, the above are going to be a waste of money. I'm not likely to do paid work, but I don't want something that's going to fire off my flash(es) randomly or not work at all. And other than their cheap cost, I'm not sure why anyone would want to put up with something this unreliable whether they're doing paid work or not.

At the other end of the scale, I don't think I can really justify spending £00's on these Skyports (the first time I heard that word on here, I thought it was a question about a digital tv sport channel!).

So, from what I can extract above, my other option is cable. More expensive ones, or cheapies. I don't need to worry about retaining ETTL as I'll be learning manual, and my only real constraint is going to be length of cable.

In summary - a nice long cheap cable is all I need. Cost, £0's. Job done! Thanks :)
 
Ok, I'm now all ready to attempt manual off-camera flash. Hotshoe pc adapter with a 5m cable to the flash. I've looked in the manual, read that I can adjust the power output from 1/1 to 1/128. And that's about it.

So, how do I know what output I need? Is it just a case of trial and error, and over time I'll get better at 'guestimating'?

I've had a look on Strobist and this seems to imply I guess. But I'm just wondering really. Any further hints or tips much appreciated. :)
 
Guessing/experimenting certainly is one approach, and the one I've had to use to date, but to do things accurately you will need a flash meter. Take a look at Sekonic....

http://www.sekonic.com/main/

The thing with guessing is that you have quite a few variables to deal with - flash power setting, distance to subject, effect of any flash modifier (shoot through or bounce umbrella, softbox, reflector, snoot, grid spot, etc.), ambient light strength, balancing lighting ratios between multiple flashes and/or ambient light, ISO, aperture, shutter speed.
 
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