UV filters (do you still use them?)

Well, I'm sure you're not unique in shooting gigs, which is why I said "vast majority" (I bet if you did a straw poll only here, the results would be pretty low on those regularly shooting gigs).

I don't know what the Canon Protect Filter is, never seen one nor wanted or needed to. But, as they are very specific about using this filter to provide the full seal (which Canon say might not work anyway), by using, say a Hoya, would that a) not work as well or b) be a get out clause for Canon for any warranty issues if there were a liquid / dust / dirt egress into the lens and you used a third party filter?

I give up... You think filters are pointless... fine.

And just on gigs and other events with people and their fluids and refreshments flying about and places with bits of the environment being blown about - there's very often someone with a camera there and in my 40 + years of taking photographs no one has ever pointed to a picture of mine and said anything about the look being spoilt by an on lens filter. The whole thing IMO other than when looking at light sources in shot is done to death and blown out of proportion.
 
Well I feel the need and have had issues with dust - even with a hood so will continue to use. I have never seen anything that has degraded my images and will probably never will. Maybe its because I am not looking at 100% all the time and haven't even got a monitor to show any difference in output at all.

I understand you are fully in the no filter camp, but until actually see anything on my own images that the UV filter may have caused, I am happy, you are happy, everyone is happy!
Exactly, I'm not saying you shouldn't use one (or anyone else, use what you feel you need to!), as for you, its works and its what you're happy with. But I will say, using one is always a compromise, as while you may not the difference with your shots (and everything is unique, from the lens used, body used, light levels, light direction, processing work done and output monitor) there will be a loss of IQ one way or another. From my experiences I'll never use one, and although as I said, I'm a firm advocate of using polarisers, my last shoot with my Hoya Pro 1 really disappointed me, to the point where I am now considering not using polarisers :(
 
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UV filter cause more problem shooting at night time or dark places with strong light source for me ...... I can't comment which brand of filter will not cause this, but the cheap one is definitely introduce more problem. I guess you can paid £40-50 for the UV filter and it may still have problem.
 
I give up... You think filters are pointless... fine.

And just on gigs and other events with people and their fluids and refreshments flying about and places with bits of the environment being blown about - there's very often someone with a camera there and in my 40 + years of taking photographs no one has ever pointed to a picture of mine and said anything about the look being spoilt by an on lens filter. The whole thing IMO other than when looking at light sources in shot is done to death and blown out of proportion.
Don't give up. But I don't think filters are pointless, I just think UV filters and protection filters are, in the main, pointless. But I do appreciate there are those that get benefits from the compromise, as with your good example above (though I'm amazed you're not seeing light refraction and sensor bounce?). I think for 99% of shooting they're pointless, and for the majority that use them for protection, especially with impacts, they're pointless.
 
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Exactly, I'm not saying you shouldn't use one (or anyone else, use what you feel you need to!), as for you, its works and its what you're happy with. But I will say, using one is always a compromise, as while you may not the difference with your shots (and everything is unique, from the lens used, body used, light levels, light direction, processing work done and output monitor) there will be a loss of IQ one way or another. From my experiences I'll never use one again, and although as I said, I'm a firm advocate of using polarisers, my last shoot with my Hoya Pro 1 really disappointed me, to the point where I am now considering not using polarisers :(

TBH if I ever did see issues I would probably change my stance! I don't or haven't really used my kit in a lot of demanding light or in situations where a filter would make any noticible difference.
 
TBH if I ever did see issues I would probably change my stance! I don't or haven't really used my kit in a lot of demanding light or in situations where a filter would make any noticible difference.
As a way of experimentation though, put one on your 70-200 and shoot two shots at 200mm, one with, one without. I bet you would see a difference :)
 
As a way of experimentation though, put one on your 70-200 and shoot two shots at 200mm, one with, one without. I bet you would see a difference :)

I did that when shooting sport with rain and mud flying around. I had the filter on the nikon 70-200 and a flash attached because is dull and dark day. Massive quality difference with some ghosting etc. But then it protected my lens and I'm ok with that. Normal condition i won't bother.
 
As a way of experimentation though, put one on your 70-200 and shoot two shots at 200mm, one with, one without. I bet you would see a difference :)

Ok - if and when I get time I will try it and post the results and see if people can tell! (including me lol)
 
I think sometimes it can be a placeabo, sometimes luck (both ways). I know of smashed filters that went on to cause serious scratches to lenses from the shattered glass, and even filters where the filter ring embedded into the lens barrel! Here is a good video that shows from direct impacts, theyre really not much use;

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0CLPTd6Bds


Particularly after 5:42 where he does the damage test.

I just use a hood with every lens, as not only are they good for frontal impacts the decent / OEL ones are also good at absorbing the shock of the impact lessening the impact damage to internals. Of course, they help improve contrast too from stray light.

I've seen many videos and articles saying filters does not protect and even the opposite. I've seen people take a hammer to the front element to show how strong it is and how a smashed front element still does not affect image etc etc

That is what I've read.

My own personal, actual, real life, first hand experience is that a filter was damaged from the drop and the lens was fine. I'm sure an elemtnof luck was involved but it is what it is.
 
But to be fair, under normal conditions, especially with long lenses (look through a 600mm with one attached!), the degradation in IQ is still noticeable, even with 'good' ones.

They offer no protective qualities either. They are only useful against sea spray.

If you look at dedicated Protection filters, rather than UV, these will offer less IQ degradation, and provide a little more protection.

The times when they help are where the lens is at risk from things that will scratch, rather than destroy - small flying stones, thin branches, etc. (Salt spray also falls into this category)
A lens hood will help here, by restricting the angles that things can impact the front element / filter, but cannot prevent them entirely.

There are plenty of situations where being careful means a protection filter is unnecessary, but there are also those where using one is a sensible compromise to reduce risk of damage.
 
If you look at dedicated Protection filters, rather than UV, these will offer less IQ degradation, and provide a little more protection.

The times when they help are where the lens is at risk from things that will scratch, rather than destroy - small flying stones, thin branches, etc. (Salt spray also falls into this category)
A lens hood will help here, by restricting the angles that things can impact the front element / filter, but cannot prevent them entirely.

There are plenty of situations where being careful means a protection filter is unnecessary, but there are also those where using one is a sensible compromise to reduce risk of damage.
I wasn't aware 'Protection' filters offered less IQ degradation as a rule? I'm pretty sure the same glass / plastic sheets are still used but without the anti UV coating?
 
They wont help protecting your front element, they are not much better than a sheet of paper against direct impacts, see the video I posted above, its quite shocking!
I use Hoya HD protectors (not technically UV filters) and they are very tough glass.

I don't think anyone is buying a filter to protect their camera from a fall. It's for those of us that shoot in conditions where you may get the odd piece of debris flying around.
 
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On Sunday I binned my Canon 55-250mm as it was hit with a stone that some lads were chucking at a singer and me, I`d had a quick look then chucked it away as the glass was broken. Then last night I said to the wife that I just remembered I have UV filters on all of my lenses and sure enough, when I managed to grab the lens out of the bins, it was the uv filter that was broken. So glad I remembered, so yes I use them and for that I am well chuffed :)
 
On Sunday I binned my Canon 55-250mm as it was hit with a stone that some lads were chucking at a singer and me, I`d had a quick look then chucked it away as the glass was broken. Then last night I said to the wife that I just remembered I have UV filters on all of my lenses and sure enough, when I managed to grab the lens out of the bins, it was the uv filter that was broken. So glad I remembered, so yes I use them and for that I am well chuffed :)

The front element would have probably have been fine though, they are very, very tough! :)
 
I was at a portrait workshop on Sunday where one of the attendees suddenly asked me about UV filters saying he'd just stopped using them

Apparently he'd been unhappy about the sharpness of his 150-500mm so had tested it photographing a brick wall with & without the £95 Hoya filter and it was much sharper without it, hence he binned them from every lens he had

Maybe if one of the birdies he likes to shoot craps on his front element he'll change his mind again :D

Dave
 
I always had one on when I used to shoot speedway. Damaged three over several seasons from small pieces of flying shale but never lost a front element.
 
I use UV/protecter filter or CPL at all times. I don't find it affects IQ and would prefer to protect the lens. One time, a lens fell out of my bag and the filter saved it. Filter died, lens absolutely fine!
 
I was at a portrait workshop on Sunday where one of the attendees suddenly asked me about UV filters saying he'd just stopped using them

Apparently he'd been unhappy about the sharpness of his 150-500mm so had tested it photographing a brick wall with & without the £95 Hoya filter and it was much sharper without it, hence he binned them from every lens he had

Maybe if one of the birdies he likes to shoot craps on his front element he'll change his mind again :D

Dave

Funnily enough I was going to mention a similar episode. My mother went to S.Africa recently and before she went she bought a 70-300 vr lens from another family member to use on safari. I gave the lens a quick check over before she went and it seemed a goodun. When she got back she was really disappointed with all of her safari pictures. I took a look myself and could see that none of them were anything like sharp. I had a play with the lens and I couldn't get anything sharp out of it either, even on a tripod. Was starting to assume that it had been damaged in transit. Then I noticed the filter that was fitted to the front. And guess what, with that removed, the lens was perfect. I think it was a 7-day shop branded one or something budget anyway.

I've always avoided UV filters myself as I used to get issues with reflections when shooting at night but I must admit I'd never really thought there could be such a noticeable effect in normal shooting conditions until I saw that example above for myself.

I can see the benefits for mucky environments and I guess the expensive ones have very little impact on IQ but I can't see myself ever bothering and I do shoot in a few places that might justify it.
 
I use UV/protecter filter or CPL at all times. I don't find it affects IQ and would prefer to protect the lens. One time, a lens fell out of my bag and the filter saved it. Filter died, lens absolutely fine!

I'm not picking a fight here but I read this a lot and I never really see the sense. If I were to hold a piece of paper in front of brick and then stab it with a knife, the paper would have a big hole in it and the brick would be fine but that doesn't mean the paper saved the brick. When you look at the thickness of a a glass front element and it's advantageous convex shape, it's really hard to imagine a uv filter which is <1mm thick having any effect whatsoever in terms of impact protection. And then of course a 1mm flat piece of glass will break extremely easily with the slightest impact. I'd then be more concerned about all those sharp pieces of glass scratching the front element. Not much scratches glass easily but glass itself will. Just my 2p, I appreciate this is a contentious issue!
 
Here you go: https://www.ephotozine.com/article/hoya-hd-uv-filter-review-27788

And yes, I still use UV filters, mainly because I have a Canon EOS-3 film camera and use my Canon EF L series lenses on that as well as my 6D. Some L series lenses require a filter for full weatherproofing, and I find it's easier (and less worrying) to clean a filter than it is to clean the front element of an expensive lens.
 
I'm not picking a fight here but I read this a lot and I never really see the sense. If I were to hold a piece of paper in front of brick and then stab it with a knife, the paper would have a big hole in it and the brick would be fine but that doesn't mean the paper saved the brick. When you look at the thickness of a a glass front element and it's advantageous convex shape, it's really hard to imagine a uv filter which is <1mm thick having any effect whatsoever in terms of impact protection. And then of course a 1mm flat piece of glass will break extremely easily with the slightest impact. I'd then be more concerned about all those sharp pieces of glass scratching the front element. Not much scratches glass easily but glass itself will. Just my 2p, I appreciate this is a contentious issue!

I see what you're saying. If it affected IQ for me then I'd reconsider. Also, whenever I've sold a lens, I list it as excellent condition because the front glass hasn't been in contact with any dust or moisture. Surely you'd like your used lens to be in top shape; I know I can be picky when looking for second hand equipment. I keep my filters clean as well but a lot does attach! Also, the lens fall incident happened in my early days of SLR ownership, and the filter saved the lens from a rocky floor; it could have been fatal or very expensive for the lens (me.)
 
I use UV/protecter filter or CPL at all times. I don't find it affects IQ and would prefer to protect the lens. One time, a lens fell out of my bag and the filter saved it. Filter died, lens absolutely fine!
I doubt the filter did much to protect the lens, see the video I posted on this thread.

Here it is again, see after 5m 45s.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0CLPTd6Bds
 
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The image quality problem with filters, and even the very best can have detrimental effects, are generally not a loss of sharpness, but flare and ghosting. If you shoot into bright light with and without a UV or protection filter, then the filtered version may look a bit washed out with low contrast. In most situations though, there probably won't be much visible difference. Multi-coated filters are better.

Ghosting is a double-image of very bright lights, like street scenes at night and sunsets with the sun in shot. Light bounces off the shiny surface of the sensor and is reflected back again off the rear surface of the filter.

Loss of sharpness is usually only a problem with longer lenses, like 200mm-plus. Longer focal length magnifies imperfections. Again, multi-coating is a good guide to quality, if only because manufacturers will tend not to apply expensive multi-coating to a poor bit of glass.

FWIW, I only use filters when actually necessary. But I always have the lens hood fitted, that can only improve image quality in some situations, and offers very good physical protection.
 
I'm not picking a fight here but I read this a lot and I never really see the sense. If I were to hold a piece of paper in front of brick and then stab it with a knife, the paper would have a big hole in it and the brick would be fine but that doesn't mean the paper saved the brick. When you look at the thickness of a a glass front element and it's advantageous convex shape, it's really hard to imagine a uv filter which is <1mm thick having any effect whatsoever in terms of impact protection. And then of course a 1mm flat piece of glass will break extremely easily with the slightest impact. I'd then be more concerned about all those sharp pieces of glass scratching the front element. Not much scratches glass easily but glass itself will. Just my 2p, I appreciate this is a contentious issue!
And of what use is an undamaged front element if the internals of the lens are shattered to pieces?
I see the flying gravel/dust and seaspray issues though if for no other reason than comfort in not taking that much care in cleaning the surface.
 
Nope. But I used to when I shot equestrian.. oh, and when I first got into film. (1970's)
 
I'm a biker; law says I have to wear a crash hat whilst riding. Crash hats usually have a visor to keep the wind and bugs out of your face, and they are usually made of lexan perspex. Depending on how many miles, and in what weather one rides, how long a visor might last before its so 'etched' as to need replacing is a pretty big variable, but, for the limited miles I do, I get around 3-years out of one; higher mile every-day riders probably need a couple a year... Oh-Kay...

More damage is probably done to a lens front element.... or motorcycle visor, NOT by the stuff that is chucked at it 'in use'... but in the cleaning regime to remove it after.

I can be riding along and ride into the hail-storm of stones, grit, sand and general crud falling out the back of a ballast lorry, at maybe 60mph or more.... THAT doesn't tend to abraid my crash-hat visor very much; actually takes QUITE a hefty hit from something pretty sharp to actually put a notch in the plastic, and that will if it occurs tend to be pretty minuscule. What WILL do more significant damage to a motorbike visor, is when you grab a damp cloth and rub that across the surface, and any hard granular crud stuck to the surface, gets stuck to the damp cloth, and dragged across the plastic, under pressure, as you 'rub'... which is why I tend not to... I wait until I get home, or find a convenient rest room; fill a sink ad 'soak' the visor, then wash under the tap, to get rid of as much as possible, with the lightest possibly 'action' on the surface.

IE: it is far more likely that IF you are going to damage a lenses front element, YOU will damage it in your cleaning regime, than any air-born debris will 'in use'.....

And lets be a little realistic here! Just like the crash-hat on my motorbike, I am under no illusion will 'save' my head f I crash hard-enough.. Its not a magical invulnerability field FFS! If I come off, its still gonna HURT! and I'm still likely to get deaded! A filter on the front of my camera, then, if the lens takes a smack hard enough to break it, PROBABLY isn't going to save the lens! Just like the motorcycle hat, it may save a bit of hurt, but? Who knows! Lens takes that sort of hit, front element will be lucky to get away with it, but,that's not the only damage that can occur, and whether any of the internal elements or mechanism have been jogged, ad the focus is gog to stay in limits let alone calibration, would be of as much concern as a chip on the glass!

Here's one for you, since both 'beach' environments and cinder speed-way have bee mentioned...
163811_183917104966548_339679_n.jpg

There you go, Weston-Beach-Race about twenty years ago! Look at that rooster tail off that bikes back wheel, beg chucked at the rider behind, and ME as he went through! THAT is actually ot likely to do much damage to my camera! UNTIL I come to wipe the muck off!

Oh well, how many people take photo's of beach races! Or speed way, or n beaches, or or or.. yeah! Such extreme examples of the photo-environment ARE pretty easy to diminish BUT, rather immaterial; doesn't matter WHAT put the much on the front of the lens, if it's the getting it off that does the damage... and more, you could have a perfectly clean lens, and do damage to it transferring grit from your last dirty environment escapade onto it again, when you pick up the micro-fiber cloth!

Now, motorcycle visors are as said, usually poly-carbonate plastic, not glass, they do scratch and more easily; BUT like a lot of modern lenses, to do actually have similar 'anti-glare' coatings and the like and damaging a coating layer is just as detrimental on these as on lenses, and likely with far less pressure or mechanical abrasion than on the actual plastic or glass; more still, once a coating layer has been damaged, it will likely start to deteriorate, and grow.

SO.. ultimately comes down to compromises... and cleaning..... how harsh the photo environment may or may not be, is not that big a deal; how diligent/careful you are about cleaning far more so. Do you use disposable wipes? Do you always use a brand new micro-fiber cloth? Do you use a rocket blower or compressed air can? How hard do you rub?

A-N-D this 'sharpness' thing... so often NOT actually a quality endowed by the lens, but subject lighting and reproduction 'contrast', focus control etc etc etc.. WHICH I have to say is another can of worms completely, and sorry, but IF clinical sharpness is the most critical thing to your photography and what you judge a photo by.. carry on, 'cos, well, you will likely never be convinced that 'other' aspects of a photo, like whether there is any interest in it to any-one, MIGHT also be important, let alone, possibly more so! It is an irksome argument, like chefs arguing that a stainless, dish-washer safe, Sabatier knife, will never hold an 'edge' like a tempered steel one! Which may or may not be more or less true, BUT CHOP THE EFFING ONIONS MATE! I am hungry! It wont make THAT much of any difference to the chuffing meal! Just how long you spend faffing with the strop and olive oil!

So, do you risk the more delicate coatings of a modern lens against your cleaning, OR risk some small perceived sharpness loss, against a UV or protection filter, that IF you skuff up isn't too big a deal to chuck away, and could be removed in those few instances when any effect it may have on perceived sharpness, might, make some critical difference to the overall image?

Personally, I will leave the protection filters on my lens, and not have pangs of fret when pull out the cotton buds to clean; and not risk poking holes in the coatings on the front element; and live with any minimal IQ degradation, in those instances it MAY case some, and I could take it off! B-U-T most likely cause of any less than satisfactory image will almost certainly be me be down to any of the gazillion other factors, mostly ME, not the camera, not the settings, not the lens, not the focus scheme, not the filter on the front. MOST likely to be the cause of any less than stunning picture!

REALLY, of ALL the stuff, that could give cause for criticism in my photos? Having a UV filter on the front of most of my lenses, REALLY isn't going to make barely a hapeth of difference to the 'standard' of my results!!! It REALLY isn't! DOES make me feel a little more comfy, when it starts raining, and I have to wipe the front with a tissue! But, different strokes for different folks, IF you are more comfy, wiping the front element, and confident you aren't doing more harm than good, AND that t makes Sooooo much difference to the quality of your photo's... carry on.... obviously your skill is such that everything you shoot is of such standard such minimal differences are of crucial importance to the perfection you obviously not only strive for, but must regularly achieve.....

(For Note: Weston-Beach-Race shot, was taken without a 'protection' filter; ISTR it was shot with a fish-eye, that cant take one.. gives clue how close I must have bee to that hail of sand off that chaps back tyre! And it's not exactly improved any by any enhanced 'sharpness' is it?!)
 
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