Value of land question

[ecoleman]

I have a piece of land that runs next to my garden and also back onto the neighbour.
The land is also bordered by a stream/brook/river (depending on time of year and weather). The ground is very boggy and muddy in the winter months and if the stream comes down heavy after long or heavy rainfalls it can also flood into this area, so there is not really much we can do with it.

However, the new neighbours have taken it upon themselves to use it as their personal dumping site for their garden waste. I spend all of last Saturday out there with a bonfire going slowly trying to get rid of their crap and clean the area up. I didn't make a fuss as I don't really want neighbour disputes. Both the neighbours saw what I was doing and came to the fence a couple of times to watch. After I packed up for the day, I went in had a shower, had dinner and wanders back down the garden to make sure the fire was going out. There with both neighbours piling more rubbish on the pile.

Anyway, I have tracked down the owner and suggested I buy the land which he seems okay with but has asked me to make him an offer. The problem is I don't have a clue what it would be worth.

It's not really useable land so it's not like we can extend the garden or anything so can't really see it adding much value to our property. The only value is has to me is being able to slap up a fence and tell the neighbours to clear up their s*** or else and keep it clear to ensure I nice view down the stream.
I need to get out with my tape measure, but I guess it's around 250m2.

So the question is, what do you think it's worth? What would you offer?

I've included a couple of pictures

 

[sirch]

Get a decent estate agent/land agent to value it for you then you have something to back up your offer. Most good estate agents are happy to value properties for free.

 

[Box Brownie]

I have a piece of land that runs next to my garden and also back onto the neighbour.
The land is also bordered by a stream/brook/river (depending on time of year and weather). The ground is very boggy and muddy in the winter months and if the stream comes down heavy after long or heavy rainfalls it can also flood into this area, so there is not really much we can do with it.

However, the new neighbours have taken it upon themselves to use it as their personal dumping site for their garden waste. I spend all of last Saturday out there with a bonfire going slowly trying to get rid of their crap and clean the area up. I didn't make a fuss as I don't really want neighbour disputes. Both the neighbours saw what I was doing and came to the fence a couple of times to watch. After I packed up for the day, I went in had a shower, had dinner and wanders back down the garden to make sure the fire was going out. There with both neighbours piling more rubbish on the pile.

Anyway, I have tracked down the owner and suggested I buy the land which he seems okay with but has asked me to make him an offer. The problem is I don't have a clue what it would be worth.

It's not really useable land so it's not like we can extend the garden or anything so can't really see it adding much value to our property. The only value is has to me is being able to slap up a fence and tell the neighbours to clear up their s*** or else and keep it clear to ensure I nice view down the stream.
I need to get out with my tape measure, but I guess it's around 250m2.

So the question is, what do you think it's worth? What would you offer?

I've included a couple of pictures

For unassociated reasons I feel your angst about this sort of neighours behaviour and your planned action is great ~ so hopefully you can buy it and maintain it for your benefit and the by the looks of it the wildlife.

Get a decent estate agent/land agent to value it for you then you have something to back up your offer. Most good estate agents are happy to value properties for free.

Yes, professional advice is needed.......................plus I would think a land survey to be sure that not unlike buying any property to confirm the boundaries and whether there are/is any (unused?) public footpath(s)???

Edit ~ usefull resource here https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/search-the-register though I have only used it in residential property research. But think land registry search is possible???

 

[ecoleman]

Get a decent estate agent/land agent to value it for you then you have something to back up your offer. Most good estate agents are happy to value properties for free.

Not sure if an estate agent will be willing to drive out to me if there’s no money in it for them. We live in semi rural wales.

As this forum is full of all sorts of experts, I was hoping there may be an estate agent or property valuer amongst us.

 

[ecoleman]

Yes, professional advice is needed.......................plus I would think a land survey to be sure that not unlike buying any property to confirm the boundaries and whether there are/is any (unused?) public footpath(s)???

I doubt a land survey would be necessary. The land belongs to a big farm which is rented to a local tenant. The bit of land is not used and not registered with the land registry as the farm has been in the same family for many years. There are no footpaths either.

The neighbours have also erected a new fence which I’m pretty sure they have erected a couple of metres onto the farmers land. I’m not too bothered about that as it doesn’t effect me.

 

[Box Brownie]

Your patch may be tiny by comparison but my only thought was as it might be 'seen' as woodland (as undevelopable!) maybe this will give a clue to work out a rough pro-rata? https://www.woodlands.co.uk/buying-a-wood/west-and-south-wales/

Incidently, is the access purely only via yours an your other neighbours land i.e. land locked and as such have you found the how & why that someone owns such an odd plot of land?

Edit ~ an online calculator shows 250m2 as 0.0617763 of acre.......................

 

[ecoleman]

Your patch may be tiny by comparison but my only thought was as it might be 'seen' as woodland (as undevelopable!) maybe this will give a clue to work out a rough pro-rata? https://www.woodlands.co.uk/buying-a-wood/west-and-south-wales/

Incidently, is the access purely only via yours an your other neighbours land i.e. land locked and as such have you found the how & why that someone owns such an odd plot of land?

Great thanks, I’ll have a read.

There is a large field on the other side of the brook and this land forms part of the field. A large portion of our garden also used to part of this land but was bought from the same owner 20 years ago for £750. So this bit of land has essentially been cut off by the stream and the purchase of land for our garden. The only acces to the land is over our fence, the neighbours fence or across the brook from the field.

 

[Box Brownie]

Great thanks, I’ll have a read.

There is a large field on the other side of the brook and this land forms part of the field. A large portion of our garden also used to part of this land but was bought from the same owner 20 years ago for £750. So this bit of land has essentially been cut off by the stream and the purchase of land for our garden. The only acces to the land is over our fence, the neighbours fence or across the brook from the field.

Purely back of a fag packet calculation based on the price of woodland and the 250m2 conversion to acres.............................perhaps anywhere between £2-4000 but of course if the farmer 'simply' wants some money for un-usable land a cheeky offer approx £1000

(NB I just re-read your £750 and how it relates to your house & garden..........though as your garden logically has the potential for development and how big a chunk did that £750 buy compared to the patch in question???)

Thoughts (stating the obvious) ~ whether registered or not there will surely have to be an agreement drawn up that incorporates this patch into your property so surmise that you will need legal advice & and an agreed drawing that will be appended to your property registration!

 

[ecoleman]

Purely back of a fag packet calculation based on the price of woodland and the 250m2 conversion to acres.............................perhaps anywhere between £2-4000 but of course if the farmer 'simply' wants some money for un-usable land a cheeky offer approx £1000

(NB I just re-read your £750 and how it relates to your house & garden..........though as your garden logically has the potential for development and how big a chunk did that £750 buy compared to the patch in question???)

Thoughts (stating the obvious) ~ whether registered or not there will surely have to be an agreement drawn up that incorporates this patch into your property so surmise that you will need legal advice & and an agreed drawing that will be appended to your property registration!

The £750 probably bought a piece about twice the size as what I',m looking at now although that was 20 years ago.

I'm certainly not wanting to spend £2-4k on a bit of land that is 0.05 of an Acre just to stop the neighbours from dumping rubbish. If necessary, I'll just put up an 8 foot fence, but that's a last resort.

I was thinking in the region of £1-1.5k and offer to pay the legal costs. Of course it will all be done legally and I would get the land registered.

 

[Mr Bump]

How bad do you want the land I guess?
Cheeky £1500 and see what he says, just be honest with him and say you would like to enclose it to protect the land.

 

[Box Brownie]

The £750 probably bought a piece about twice the size as what I',m looking at now although that was 20 years ago.

I'm certainly not wanting to spend £2-4k on a bit of land that is 0.05 of an Acre just to stop the neighbours from dumping rubbish. If necessary, I'll just put up an 8 foot fence, but that's a last resort.

I was thinking in the region of £1-1.5k and offer to pay the legal costs. Of course it will all be done legally and I would get the land registered.

As you have a figure in mind (good idea to check what a solicitor will charge for this sort of 'conveyancing') and go for it.....nothing to lose and all to gain

How bad do you want the land I guess?
Cheeky £1500 and see what he says, just be honest with him and say you would like to enclose it to protect the land.

Yes, as above just punt it and see what he says..................................afteral he has has no use for it and money in his pocket!

Note ~ as you mentioned that you think one of the other neighbours have 'nibbled' a bit off of it maybe something to mention, by way of "I want to protect the land.....", when discussing the reason you are asking about buying it? How long ago was that and (legal matter?) does "adverse possession of land time period" apply when agricultural land is involved?

Oh, would lovely to hear of the outcome.

PS I wonder what your awkward, inconsiderate neighbours will say when you take action to make the land secure from them using it as a dumping place for their garden waste

 

[ecoleman]

Note ~ as you mentioned that you think one of the other neighbours have 'nibbled' a bit off of it maybe something to mention, by way of "I want to protect the land.....", when discussing the reason you are asking about buying it? How long ago was that and (legal matter?) does "adverse possession of land time period" apply when agricultural land is involved?

It's the same neighbour . Fence only went up a couple last month so they have a long wait for adverse possession. I haven't really studied the land registry maps and the land may actually be theirs, but the previous fence that was up was a couple of metres back.

Even if I do buy the land I couldn't really care less if they have nicked a bit. I really don't want a neighbour dispute and really not going to throw money at fighting for a small slither of land that can't be used. As long as I can protect the bulk of it.

 

[Box Brownie]

It's the same neighbour . Fence only went up a couple last month so they have a long wait for adverse possession. I haven't really studied the land registry maps and the land may actually be theirs, but the previous fence that was up was a couple of metres back.

Even if I do buy the land I couldn't really care less if they have nicked a bit. I really don't want a neighbour dispute and really not going to throw money at fighting for a small slither of land that can't be used. As long as I can protect the bulk of it.

Ah! I agree about avoiding neighbour dispute(s) [see my mention of neighbours in post #3]. I hope your research & deliberations work out to your satisfaction

 

[tarric]

I think 1-1.5k is a pretty reasonable offer, arable land in Wales goes for around 7-8k an acre so on that bases a plot of 0.0617763 of an acre would be worth around £450.

 

[ecoleman]

I think 1-1.5k is a pretty reasonable offer, arable land in Wales goes for around 7-8k an acre so on that bases a plot of 0.0617763 of an acre would be worth around £450.

That's for arable land though which is apparently a bit different. With land such as I'm looking at they take into consideration what value it would add to your property. So for example if it was usable land and I could make a grand, sprawling garden which added £20k to the value of my house, they could demand £10k for the land.

I'm trying to get a value on the basis that whilst it may add a bit of value to my house, it's probably not an awful lot due to it being largely unusable.

I wish it was only £450

 

[gman]

I wouldn't go above a grand. If you end up not getting it then I'd wait for the wind to be blowing towards your neighbour and smoke 'em out and keep doing it! If their new fence stops the smoke....well hell, burn that down also!

 

[beyond the blue]

There seems to be some large figures mentioned here. I've just bought the freehold for the land my 3 bedroom bungalow stands on with quite large gardens for £850 however the total cost after all the legals was £1, 400.

 

[Stumpy]

Land once sold or given up is a lot more expensive to get back. Just look at how much of London is foriegn owned now.

 

[StewartR]

There seems to be some large figures mentioned here.

It's all relative though, isn't it. I guesstimate that our house might be worth £750,000 or so, but if you had to build it from scratch it might cost £250,000. So that implies the land (with residential planning permission of course) is worth about £500,000. Our plot measures about 35m x 10m, so it works out at £1400 per sq metre or £5.8 million per acre.

(I had to do the calculation twice before I believed it!)

 

[Galaxy66]

Interesting read.
You say the land is boggy and floods and there is not much you can do with it, there is actually a lot you can do with it. I have land bordering a stream that I bought from a neighbouring farmer that also was boggy in places and floods during heavy rainfall but after digging a few trenches,towards the burn, installing a land drain and back filling with gravel is now perfectly useable..............apart from when it floods during heavy rainfall

Ps sorry can't comment on the value as it was part of a 2.4 acre parcel.

 

[ecoleman]

Interesting read.
You say the land is boggy and floods and there is not much you can do with it, there is actually a lot you can do with it. I have land bordering a stream that I bought from a neighbouring farmer that also was boggy in places and floods during heavy rainfall but after digging a few trenches,towards the burn, installing a land drain and back filling with gravel is now perfectly useable..............apart from when it floods during heavy rainfall

Ps sorry can't comment on the value as it was part of a 2.4 acre parcel.

The wife has plans. We want to keep it fairly natural and try to encourage some wildlife. The wife loves gardening so I’m sure she’ll make something out of it.

Anyway, I’ve offered £1k but didn’t hear from the chap for a week so I called him on Monday to make sure he’d got my email. Turns out he did get my email but doesn’t own the land by himself but it’s owned by a trust so he need to speak to the other trustees. He doesn’t think there will be a problem. He didn’t say anything about my offer but he didn’t tell me to get lost either. He’s having a meeting with the trustees next week so fingers crossed.

 

[Galaxy66]

I do hope you are successful in acquiring the land as it will make such a difference to the enjoyment of your property by bordering a brook, will the boundary be on your side ? if not it may be worth considering the inclusion of the brook and having the boundary a few metres back from the waters edge as we did.

 

[ecoleman]

I do hope you are successful in acquiring the land as it will make such a difference to the enjoyment of your property by bordering a brook, will the boundary be on your side ? if not it may be worth considering the inclusion of the brook and having the boundary a few metres back from the waters edge as we did.

the brook is already our boundary at the back of the garden and our actual boundary is to the middle of the brook, although the garden is raised about 2m up. This land is to the side of our garden so will just extend the boundary along the brook and is at water level. On the other side of the brook is fields so just the odd inquisitive cow or sheep to contend with.

 

[Nod]

Might be worth checking out if you have any extraction rights from the brook - could save a few pennies off your water bill if you can use the brook water on the garden.

 

[ecoleman]

Might be worth checking out if you have any extraction rights from the brook - could save a few pennies off your water bill if you can use the brook water on the garden.

We do have rights to take water and initially were planning on doing so but we then found out we are unmetered water so not really worth the cost or a pump.
We pay £230/year so can't complain about that.

 

[ecoleman]

Just an update: Had one of the trustees visit this morning to take a look at the land in question. A hour later got a phone call to say it's all good for £1k.

Will be handed over to the solicitors next week.

 

[Tringa]

Excellent result for you, Elliott.

Dave