Vicar said no flash, for Wedding togging.. Oh no!!

jcoutts

jcoutts

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Hmmm, Had a little scout at the church last night with the B&G. It was late and dark so not quite representative of the conditions for the day (e.g. No light whatsoever through the glass windows).

But the vicar made me aware that he does not like flash photography, not because of any parish rules, just because he feels it tends to distract the service and everybody concentrates on the tog and not the two getting married! - :shrug: I suppose he has a point, but I always thought people were more interested in the service since THAT is what they are there for :thinking:

Anyway, took a few test shots and very disappointing! At ISO 800, 1/50 about the lowest I would want to go, but shots were still a little dark.

Having read the threads and knowing that the quality ain't that good at ISO 1600 on my Camera. Don't really want to go to that! So looks like I'm buggered unless its a VERY bright sunny day - not likely have you seen it today!!!..

Was wondering if I can do the best on the day settle for darker shots.... and raise the exposure (RAWs) in Lightroom after - Will they suffer too much detrementally if I do this? .... Or would I be better to shoot higher ISO 1600 and treat the noise????... :bang::bang:

What do you reckon guys - Talk about throw a spanner in the works. :bonk:
 
what lens are you using? and what Fstop were you on to get the 1/50 ?
if it was me i would go for next to no DOF and just get good shots of detail like the ring's on the fingeres and faces stuff like that
 
I haven't used a flash on a wedding for years - and I mean not at all.
 
:plusone:

An f/1.2 or f/1.4 would probably get you there. The alternative is to hire/borrow a body with better high ISO performance (40D/50D/5D)

Bob
 
Most weddings are shot without flash in churches. As DigitalRelish has stated you might want to look at hiring a fast lens, maybe a 50mm f/1.4 or a 70-200mm with IS/VR, the IS/VR will be useful as the subjects will be mostly static. I would also recommend you use a monopod if you are going below 1/50th to try and mitigate any camera shake.

I don't know enough about your camera to comment on its noise handling capabilities but I would try and shoot at a higher ISO and then do some mild noise reduction. I've changed my workflow slightly this year in that noise reduction is the penultimate stage of my PP and this is followed up by a high pass sharpen at somewhere between 50-70% opacity, it gives good results and helps to avoid that plastic look you sometimes get through NR.

Hope this helps and good luck!
 
get faster glass, invest in a better camera, get a tripod(not massive amounts of movements in a wedding) stage shots.

what lens are you using? do you have a backup camera?

i would recomend getting a couple of prime lenses(perhaps hire them from lensesforhire). these will have lower f stops than your current zooms, but will mean you have to move.

i would hire an 50mm and a 70-200 f2.8IS or the 200mm prime. you will sacrifice dof but at least should get some shutter speeds you can use.

whos the wedding for?
 
I'd be chopping everything in, save one of your longer lenses, for the canon 17-55 f2.8. It would at least make a go of those conditions. Another option would be to get hold of the 50 f1.8 cheaply. But if the only option is to raise the ISO that's what you'll have to do. You'll be surprised what something like noiseninja/neatimage can do, as long as they don't want poster sized prints in the church.

You're going to need fast glass though, if you're going to make a decent go of wedding photography.
 
Will be using the fastest one I have the 17-70 Sigma F2.8.. Pushed the exposure up by three stops.. 1/3 each one.
 
Another vote for a fast lens here. I'm shooting a wedding on the 28th and have already hired an 85mm f1.2. I might not shoot at f1.2 but it should be nice around the f1.8 mark.

The monopod is also a good idea but just be aware that some screw into the camera body and it's not ideal to shoot portrait like that, you'll have someones eye out! Better to shoot landscape and get a good, in focus shot than none at all though.
 
Dpo what we did in the film days and get a tripod,you can get shots from the back of the church or maybe a balcony this way,I am sure from experience that the vicar will allow flash for the register and couple coming back down the aisle shots
 
but isn't it only 2.8 at the wide end? I know that lens, it does ok in low light but you're going to have to hope for a sunny day or leave the door open :D
 
Must be quite a worry at such short notice.

The staged shots suggestion sounds a good one to me, but obviously you'll want something that's more natural too.

Of course, make sure you get plenty outside the church too! :)

Good luck.
 
It's pretty well the norm that holy men wont allow flash at weddings during the solemn part of the ceremony, although there are one two that will. You can understand their point of view I suppose, but there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't use flash after the solemn part is over. You need to stand your ground sometimes with these guys and just politely point out that it's not his day or yours - it's the couples, and they'll be wanting decent shots of the day.

There's no other answer really than to get the fastest glass you can get and if in doubt, play safe and take a tripod to at least eliminate your own movement.

I remember a nightmare vicar in a really dark old church who grandly and dismissively announced that he was a photographer and there was plenty of light in the church without flash. I was getting 1/15th wide open, and I took some shots at 1/8th. One of them turned out to be one of the best shots I ever took, but I wouldn't want to repeat it with money on it! :gag:
 
Yes, F2.8 wide open, but can get qute close. So should be able to use wide open for the most part. Shouldn't have to zoom much at all really got myself a nice spot in the church a few feet away. - The only plus to all of this...

Yes, hoping for a really sunny day. the church does have some nice big windows. Hope the weather is kind to me on the day. Obvioulsy no problem with the ones outside. Nice idea about the staging of some shots afterwards. Should be able to get a few like that.

I believe I can use flash for the Register ones!! Will snatch a few anyway - :-)
 
The nifty fifty would be the quickest and cheapest solution, personally I wouldn't touch a wedding without some fast glass even if it's just a single prime also pleast tell me you have an external flash and your not planning on using the pop up jobby?
 
Hi A1ex2001,

No I have an external flash (ettl) and bought a diffuser expecially for the job. I know this vicar very well and he is generally speaking fairly layed back. Therefore I was surprised when he said "No Flash"

As I said OP it isn't because he doesn't want me to sue the flash as such. Its because he feels I will steel the limelight.
 
I went to a wedding as a guest recently and I took my 400d along to see what results I got. and they were pritty good. I shot mainly at ISO 400 with f2.8. I own a sigma 24-70 f2.8 and it was fantatic for all the shots I needed.

I did also borrow a canon 70-200 f2.8 for the long range back of the church shots.

As said above, fast glass is the only way.

I do gig photography as well and during gigs the light can be very poor, sometimes non existant when taking shots. I have the nifty 50 and also a 20mm sigma f1.8 lens. These offer great shots that are crisp and sharp

Mike
 
Back to the original question, I've always found it better to get the exposure right in camera and use post processing software such as Noise Ninja afterwards, rather than under expose.

As others have said, monopods and tripods could also help.
 
Hmmm, I do have Noise Ninja. I just wish I understood how to use it properly. Yeah I use it but I'm sure I'm not using it to its best. The help file isn't that explanatory or perhaps its just me! Doh!

Anyway, looks like I'm gonna have to get to grips with it. Everything else I'm O.K on, been using Lightroom & Photoshop for a while now, but no expert.

Thanks for the advice guys & gals - Really do appreciate it.
 
jcoutts said:
Hi A1ex2001,

No I have an external flash (ettl) and bought a diffuser expecially for the job. I know this vicar very well and he is generally speaking fairly layed back. Therefore I was surprised when he said "No Flash"

As I said OP it isn't because he doesn't want me to sue the flash as such. Its because he feels I will steel the limelight.
Click to expand...

Just checking, it's not listed in your sig so I had visions of some truly nasty washed out shots. Get the nifty though, it's cheap and when all else fails fast glass could be your saviour, sods law says the sigma will pack up at the most inconvenient time and you'll be left with now quick alternative.
 
Hmmm Yes, if the Sigma packs up I'm buggered! I would be pretty upset though only bought it two weeks ago - no guarantees I know, but if I were doing this regularly, this is a favour for a friend. I would def. get some fast glass and another body. Of course you just have to.

As for the Signature.. A TP prob there I think. Its on Original post and is ticked for "Quick Replies" as I have been doing but doesn't seem to be displaying. Not sure why

Edit: Just realised what you meant the flash isn't even listed on my sig. Will have to add.
 
jcoutts said:
Hmmm, Had a little scout at the church last night with the B&G. It was late and dark so not quite representative of the conditions for the day (e.g. No light whatsoever through the glass windows).

But the vicar made me aware that he does not like flash photography, not because of any parish rules, just because he feels it tends to distract the service and everybody concentrates on the tog and not the two getting married! - :shrug: I suppose he has a point, but I always thought people were more interested in the service since THAT is what they are there for :thinking:

Anyway, took a few test shots and very disappointing! At ISO 800, 1/50 about the lowest I would want to go, but shots were still a little dark.

Having read the threads and knowing that the quality ain't that good at ISO 1600 on my Camera. Don't really want to go to that! So looks like I'm buggered unless its a VERY bright sunny day - not likely have you seen it today!!!..

Was wondering if I can do the best on the day settle for darker shots.... and raise the exposure (RAWs) in Lightroom after - Will they suffer too much detrementally if I do this? .... Or would I be better to shoot higher ISO 1600 and treat the noise????... :bang::bang:

What do you reckon guys - Talk about throw a spanner in the works. :bonk:
Click to expand...
If its of any help to you i have a 50mm 1.8 i could lend you..may help a bit in low light :thumbs:..im not far from you..yours if you want to borrow it,all brand new in the box..
 
Absolutely, ALiB couldn't have put it better myself.

Starrider - Have PM'd.
 
Invest in a new body and faster glass.
Look at maybe a second hand 40d and a Sigma 24-70mm f2.8

It may cost you now, but will be worth it in the long run.

I dont think shooting at 17-25mm on your 17-70 just to get f2.8 would be the best idea. For me, you really need to get something fast and a camera that can handle ISO better and give you a wider range between 800-1600 instead of just 800 and 1600

Mike
 
All this talk of fast glass is fine but is F1.8 really going to give enough DOf to keep bride and doom sharp if the photog is stood off to one side and they are on different focal planes to each other. Fast glass is fine until you need depth of field.
 
Kev M said:
All this talk of fast glass is fine but is F1.8 reaflly going to give enough DOf to keep bride and doom sharp if the photog is stoop off to one side and they are on different focal planes to each other. Fast glass is fine until you need depth of field.
Click to expand...

And thats when its time to get creative :D
 
bbb said:
The most annoying bit will be when the congregation are all using flashes through the ceremony on their phones and you're not allowed to :lol:
Click to expand...

If its constant light from a phone then photograph when they have it on :lol:
 
PM Jesus and see if he'll come as your assistant, he considers himself a source of constant soft light and I'm sure the vicar won't object to his presence.
 
lol at Kev! :)

You could ask the good vicar if he would mind a video light off to the side. You could at least get some light in on the scene and try to pick up the brides face with it.
 
Least you're allowed to take shots during the ceremony. I was told under no circumstance was I allowed to even look at my camera.

Didn't stop the guests witht heir P&Ss though.
 
I don't mean this to sound patronising, so I apologise in advance if it does, but shouldn't you have spotted this one earlier?

I've covered a few weddings, it's not a big source of income for me as I don't like it, but it is a real test of your gear.

No flash during the ceremony is pretty much standard and that's where fast glass and a good quality body is going to pay off. Sure there are techniques to help you get round this, but broadly speaking your life is made easier with better equipment.

I really don't mean to sound cruel, but I wouldn't dream of being the main (commercial) photographer at a wedding with a (single) 400D and your selection of lenses, it's all superb enthusiast-grade kit, but in my opinion when it's a professional job then you should have professional gear and backups of everything, including bodies. I have always hired or borrowed a second body and selection of lenses if I didn't feel my kit stretched far enough.

I guess my post is really a warning to others more than a comment about your situation - but it's common that lots of people are 'having a go' at weddings because they have entry level dSLR equipment. Many are big sucesses, but under-spec'd equipment can cause you a headache and potentially run the risk of falling short of the quality expected by the bride and groom.

Cheers,
James
 
I thank you for your comment James and I agree to a certain extent. Having the right tools for the job is a must for anything that you do and I perhaps do not have the best tools for the job.

In saying that I was confident this vicar was layed back enough to allow flash to be used modestly (I know him quite well now). Assuming that was the case I would have been very confident and still am that I will produce good photos - Though not Pro level. He surprised me with his request!...

Unfortunately, we have to "Cut ones coat according to ones cloth" and I would love to have a myriad of "L" lenses and a couple of 1Ds, 5Ds even in my bag, but I don't.

In the end its all about capturing the day, and I have no doubt that I can do this, and achieve it well.

As for finding out before hand, as you are not aware of the circumstances, you would, could not be expected to know. This wedding has been scaled down vastly due to the death of the brides twin sister after along battle with breast cancer. (Aged 35!). Since she scaled down and cancelled the all day tog as a friend and a known enthusiast to her I was asked if I would take some pics instead. This was after careful consideration the wedding was to even go ahead and I was only asked two weeks ago!

They are not expecting pro pics, but "I" was most honoured for the opportunity and obviously "I" want to do the best for them under the circumstances.

That's why I'm on here, getting some very useful advice and tips.

I know you think I'm mad for undertaking this with the limited kit I have.. But believe me I know this already and I am mad already.. so no matter.
 
I don't think you're mad at all! I can completely understand wanting to do a good job, and I'm sure from your attitude that you will!

Good luck, but my advice still stands - beg, borrow or (err) acquire a spare - even if it's not up to the quality of your 400D. If your camera goes south, you're in deep trouble. I once had this happen at a low-key event that I hadn't budgeted a backup for.

Thankfully, I had a Fuji F40fd in my pocket and it got me through....you can clearly see the difference in the shots but believe me, it was better than nothing - regardless of how much of a prune I looked (big 5D + grip + 70-200 round my neck and 'shooting' with a compact), at least I was able to fulfill the brief.

Best of luck with it!

Cheers!
James
 
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