Wasps in flight

GardenersHelper

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Nick
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EDIT: IN PREFERENCE TO THESE, PLEASE SEE VERSIONS WITH CORRECTED WHITE BALANCES IN THIS POST BELOW.

Captured in the garden, the first four today with the Panasonic FZ200 and the other four yesterday with the Panasonic G5 with 45-175 lens, all using the Canon 500D closeup lens.


0765 01 2015_08_11 P1020610 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0765 04 2015_08_11 P1020634 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0765 11 2015_08_11 P1020933 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0765 12 2015_08_11 P1030117 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0763 02 2015_08_10 P1040876 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0763 06 2015_08_10 P1050068 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0763 07 2015_08_10 P1050641 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0763 08 2015_08_10 P1050649 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr
 
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Super shots - but are they different lenses as the colour balance seems warmer in the latter few?

Paul.

Thanks Paul.

Yes, the lenses are different as the FZ200 has a fixed lens. And it's a different lens as between the G5 and 70D too. I'm not sure though how much it is the lens and how much it is the sensor coupled with the default camera profile that Lightroom uses for each camera. I rather rushed this lot and just used the default "Adobe standard" profile for each camera and let it work with the "As shot" white balance. Since they were all shot with flash I suppose I was assuming (not really consciously) that it wouldn't have difficulty with the white balance. And I got sidetracked by sharpening artefacts with the FZ200 and G5, and concentrated on trying to get tolerable sharpness without nasty side effects, and forgot about white balance. It only really registered after I had uploaded everything to Flickr, and laziness cut in at that point. (What I noticed most was the 70D images, which are even worse. Not just warmer, but a bit of a strange colour balance I fear.)

It would have been better to redo the selected images from all three sets from which these are drawn, trying to get a common, decent looking white balance. My bad. (But well spotted, and best mentioned rather than not, so thanks for that.)
 
Great set and composition for difficult to capture seen... obviously making a nest but angles all good since they could have come in at any angle.
 
Thanks Paul.

Yes, the lenses are different as the FZ200 has a fixed lens. And it's a different lens as between the G5 and 70D too. I'm not sure though how much it is the lens and how much it is the sensor coupled with the default camera profile that Lightroom uses for each camera. I rather rushed this lot and just used the default "Adobe standard" profile for each camera and let it work with the "As shot" white balance. Since they were all shot with flash I suppose I was assuming (not really consciously) that it wouldn't have difficulty with the white balance.

I don't think it had anything to do with the camera profiles (or at most, not much). The White Balance settings were hugely different. Around 4200, -5 for the FZ200 shots, around 5500, -8 for the G3 shots, and around 6550, 20 for the 70D shots. I have redone the G3 and 70D shots with 4150, -6 as I preferred the look of the FZ200 shots. That is odd in itself, because I have found the 70D colour balance to be pretty good (as in "looks good to me" - as to whether it is "correct" or not is another matter of course). But these 70D shots did look strange to me. Mind you, it has always previously been with natural light with the 70D - this is the first time I have managed to use flash successfully with the 70D.

Anyway, I'm reposting all eight images in both posts, with these new white balance settings for the G3 and 70D images. I'm really glad you mentioned this Paul. Thanks again.

Here are the adjusted images for this thread (last four adjusted, first four are the same as in the top post)


0765 01 2015_08_11 P1020610 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0765 04 2015_08_11 P1020634 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0765 11 2015_08_11 P1020933 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0765 12 2015_08_11 P1030117 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr



0763 02a 2015_08_11 P1040876 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0763 06a 2015_08_11 P1050068 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0763 07a 2015_08_11 P1050641 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0763 08a 2015_08_11 P1050649 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr
 
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Good shots
You are a brave man wouldnt get me within a country mile of a wasps nest
If one takes a dislike all his mates do as well
 
Excellent results, well done! I've tried this but found it difficult to get any good detail in the wings. Are you using manual focus on a preset distance or AF?
 
Thanks for the kind comments.

You are a brave man wouldnt get me within a country mile of a wasps nest
If one takes a dislike all his mates do as well

They were not interested in me. Not that day. The next day I captured a few more shots of them. At first there was just the odd one flying in and out. But after a while I noticed that there seemed to be continuous buzzing going on around me. Not just the odd one pausing before going on its way, but several of them sticking around, buzzing around me.

I carried on for a bit, but then decided perhaps I'd done enough of that scene. It wasn't going all that well anyway (I told myself, not necessarily entirely truthfully). I backed off and went looking for other subjects. :D

I've tried this but found it difficult to get any good detail in the wings. Are you using manual focus on a preset distance or AF?

With these it was manual focus on a preset distance as both these Panasonic cameras use contrast detect focusing, and the older variety at that, not Panasonic's newer and allegedly extremely fast Depth From Defocus technology. If I did try autofocus with one or other of these cameras (I don't recall if I did or not) it would only have been for a very brief period. The wasps were moving really fast - too fast for autofocusing with these cameras.

I did use autofocus some of the time with the 70D for the session in this thread. I almost always use the LCD with live view with all my cameras, but I recently discovered how fast phase detect focusing can be when I photographed some birds in flight at a local pond using the OVF with my 70D. I have no experience photographing birds, especially not in flight, so I was fairly astonished to find it was possible, even for me. Thus enlightened, I tried the OVF some of the time during the 70D session with the wasps.

It wasn't hugely successful. Using a single point was useless -perhaps someone with much faster reactions than me could manage it, but there was no way I could get a single point over the subject and press the shutter button before it was gone. I tried using the central group of focus points, as I had with the birds, but the wasps were still much too fast for me. I ended up using all the focus points. The trouble is that the camera then tended to focus on the surroundings rather than the subject. I did get some shots that worked while using the OVF, but I don't think that was because I was using the OVF. It was just, in effect, a way of letting the camera pick a fixed point to focus on.

I think the wings move too fast to get any detail when the wasps are in flight. Like with flies in flight and bees in flight, I sometimes get some smudgy wing detail. I suspect you get most detail when the wing gets to a position where it is about to reverse its direction, and is momentarily still (ish).

If flash is the dominant light source then the briefness of the flash pulse will give a very fast effective shutter speed and tend to "freeze" movement (although some of the wing flight movements are I suspect too fast even for that). However, when photographing bees, wasps or flies in flight it is quite likely to be quite bright, and even though using flash, the flash may not be the overridingly dominant light source. In that case the effective shutter speed will be nearer the actual shutter speed than the length of the flash pulse, Even if you are operating at flash sync speed this will probably only be 1/250 or so (or worse, such as 1/160 sec with my G3, with a minimum ISO of 160 which makes things even worse again).

You can try getting round this by using HSS/FP flash, but I found that a very rocky road.

One of the advantages of the FZ200 is that it has a leaf shutter and can use ordinary flash with very fast shutter speeds. I used a shutter speed of 1/2500 sec (about the practical maximum) with the FZ200 for the flies and 1/2000 sec for the bees. Even with those though you'll see a variable amount of in flight wing detail, ranging from some smudgy stuff to invisible wings, all very similar to the wasps.
 
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They are really cool to see them carrying mud in their mouths

Thanks. It's the first time I've photographed wasps in flight and I've never seen them carrying stuff before. That's one of the nice things about close-up/macro, you sometimes get to see things that otherwise you would never have known about.
 
Hate them, wasps that is, love these shots though absolutely brilliant.
 
I ended up using all the focus points. The trouble is that the camera then tended to focus on the surroundings rather than the subject. I did get some shots that worked while using the OVF, but I don't think that was because I was using the OVF. It was just, in effect, a way of letting the camera pick a fixed point to focus on.

I tried this again today and concentrated on what was happening with the focus points. They were definitely picking up on the edge of the hole not on the wasps.
 
These are terrific Nick! In-flight behavioural shots! They tick lots of boxes for me :)

Lovely light and great detail. They have plenty of depth and almost have a 3D feel to them. Top notch!
 
Same as all nature I suppose, prod and touch and you'll get bit !

Which seems fair enough to me.:)

In this case I think them "buzzing" me on the second day may have been my imagination. I was out there again yesterday and today and they were buzzing around me, but I stuck with it and I think they were just "buzzing around in general", and not getting at me particularly. One did land on me, at least that's what I thought, but it turned out to be something else that I suspect was a wasp mimic. It landed on me a couple of times, and then hung around the entrance to the nest. The wasps didn't bother it. I wondered if it was parasitic and was going to go into the nest and lay eggs in there (it did look rather fat), but I didn't see where it went unfortunately.

On another post I was informed to Photograph early morning and evening.

Perhaps they slow down then? Or perhaps they are less aggressive? I don't know. I was out there around 8pm this evening and they seemed as active and fast moving as earlier in the day. I suppose it may vary with species, or where they are in their lifecycle, or who knows what.

Great set of pics !

Thanks.
 
These are terrific Nick! In-flight behavioural shots! They tick lots of boxes for me :)

Lovely light and great detail. They have plenty of depth and almost have a 3D feel to them. Top notch!

High praise indeed Tim! Thanks very much.

I saw some different behaviour today. I don't know if I've got any successful images of it. We'll see. :)
 
Well done Nick

Thanks Mike.

- amazing what you can do with such a high shutter speed on your setup (y)

The things is though that only the first four of these used a very high shutter speed. The second four, captured with the G5, used 1/160 sec, which is the flash sync speed for the G5. And all of the Wasps doing construction work images used 1/250 sec because that is the flash sync speed for the 70D.

When flash is the dominant light source, the effective shutter speed is the length of the flash pulse. The length of the flash pulse varies with the flash intensity. There are variations between flash units but it looks from this as though, very roughly, on average, the length of the flash pulse is around:
  • 1/250 sec at full power
  • 1/1000 sec at half power
  • 1/2000 sec at 1/4 power
  • 1/3500 sec at 1/8 power
  • 1/6000 sec at 1/16 power
  • 1/11000 sec at 1/32 power
What this means is that you and everyone else can do these same sort of in flight shots, as long as flash is the dominant light source.

Using the FZ200, with flash as the dominant light source, I can operate with flash power of around 1/8 to 1/4 power at base ISO and minimum aperture, which probably gives an effective shutter speed of 1/2000 second or faster no matter what the camera shutter speed is. In contrast, I have to use 1/2 to full power with the 70D and G5 at base ISO and minimum aperture, which gives a shutter speed ten times or so longer. In order to get the same fast shutter speed (and the same fast flash recycle time) as with the FZ200 I have to raise the ISO to around 800 with the G5 and 70D. That is ok though because their ISO 800 is similar (or in fact better in the case of the 70D) than the FZ200's ISO 100.

I found I could use 1/2500 sec shutter speed for the Flies in flight, but not faster, because the light level fell off. I suspect this was because I was using around 1/4 to 1/8 power for those shots, and using shutter speeds faster than 1/2500 meant I was closing the shutter before the flash had finished firing. Be that as it may, by using ISO 800 or so you can get effective shutter speeds of around 1/2000 sec even when using flash sync shutter speed of, in your case I imagine, 1/250 sec. As long as flash is the dominant light source.

There are different considerations in bright conditions, in which case flash won't be the dominant light source with cameras with normal flash sync speeds. In bright conditions, whichever camera I am using, and even when using base ISO and minimum aperture, I occasionally need shutter speeds faster than 1/250 sec to avoid over-exposure. For most people, who don't use minimum aperture, the situation is worse, and faster than flash sync shutter speeds will be needed more often. An advantage that the FZ200 and similar leaf shutter cameras have is that you can use flash for fill with fast shutter speeds when the ambient light is bright enough to require a shutter speed faster than the flash sync speed. To do that with most cameras you would have to reduce the required shutter speed back below the flash sync speed by using a neutral density filter and/or or a diffuser for the scene, or alternatively use HSS/FP flash, which will work with fast shutter speeds, but which I found very difficult, slow and frustrating to use.
 
Great post Nick - fascinating in fact. Always so much to learn isn't there! I very frequently shoot in the evening with the MT24ex at around 1/8th power so by your table above it seems I'll be getting a much faster effective shutter than I had thought (actual shutter normally 1/200).

I'm at least at the stage of knowing what I don't know now so I suppose this is progress!

Keep up the good work :)
 
Great post Nick - fascinating in fact. Always so much to learn isn't there! I very frequently shoot in the evening with the MT24ex at around 1/8th power so by your table above it seems I'll be getting a much faster effective shutter than I had thought (actual shutter normally 1/200).

I'm at least at the stage of knowing what I don't know now so I suppose this is progress!

Keep up the good work :)

Thanks Mike. What aperture and ISO are you using with 1/8th power? And what magnification? (because that affects the effective aperture)

Btw, those pulse length numbers were I think all for single flash units (I only used the first six of the results from the article). I don't know what difference, if any, there would be for dual flash.
 
Thanks Mike. What aperture and ISO are you using with 1/8th power? And what magnification? (because that affects the effective aperture)

Btw, those pulse length numbers were I think all for single flash units (I only used the first six of the results from the article). I don't know what difference, if any, there would be for dual flash.
Well normally around f11-f16 and ISO 100 or 200. Mag is between 1 and 2 times (100mm with Raynox). I'll do some digging - thanks :)
 
Well normally around f11-f16 and ISO 100 or 200. Mag is between 1 and 2 times (100mm with Raynox). I'll do some digging - thanks :)

Ah, I'd forgotten that you are using the Raynox. That doesn't change the effective aperture. So, taking the Raynox out of the equation, if the 100L is at full 1:1, then the effective aperture doubles, which would be around f/22 to f/32. Very interesting that you are operating at 1/8 power with those settings. Presumably the power requirement is low because the flash units are really close to the subject. Hmmm. Given the nice quality of light you are getting, it makes me think about the KX800 again.

Oh, something else I'd forgotten. There isn't a Panasonic fit version of the KX800, and I'd want to use it with the FZ200.

Thinks.....

The KX800 is manually controlled. It doesn't need to talk to the camera, other than to pick up the instruction to fire. I wonder .....

Puts Canon flash unit on G3 (on the G3 in case it blows up or similar. The G5 has replaced the G3 so I can afford to lose it). Turn on flash. Turn on camera. Press shutter button. Bingo! Flash fires.

Take a few piccies. They come out as expected. G3 seems to be still working ok. Ditto the flash unit.

Put Canon flash on FZ200, go out in garden and do a night time test session, manually controlling the flash. It seems to work.

So, I could get a Canon fit KX800 and it should work on the G3, G5, FZ200 and 70D.

Discussion needed with finance manager.

To be continued....... :D
 
Put Canon flash on FZ200, go out in garden and do a night time test session, manually controlling the flash. It seems to work.

So, I could get a Canon fit KX800 and it should work on the G3, G5, FZ200 and 70D.

Ha ha, not so fast! As so often, there turns out to be a complication.

I tried my Canon 430EXII on the G3. It didn't work. So the KX800 might or might not work.....

Rang UKDigital, who sell the KX800. They thought it probably would work, and if it didn't I could send it back. That seems very reasonable. I think I'll try it.
 
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