Wedding Photographer didn't like me taking photos

Phil V said:
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BTW I'd be interested to hear how you'd suggest a pro somehow avoids worst case scenario, with an aisle full of 'photographers' with iPads leaning into the shot. Levitation? Crane hire? Steps? Kicking the guests? After all it's up to him to handle it?
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Laudrup said:
Get in a better position? Be more aware of their surroundings? Make an educated guess that every wedding there's ever been people's heads and arms will be leaning out down the aisle?
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That's your answer?
What's a better position to photograph the B&G coming down the aisle, if it's not in the aisle?
You'll have to do better than that if you want to seriously answer a question.

As someone who has this to deal with, my answer is to make a feature of what's there, So if the traditional aisle shot isn't available, I'll shoot one of the cameras with the B&G OoF in the background, or we'll get shots of the hoards of photographers that are part of every wedding.

Like I said, I've never had to resort to asking a guest to stop shooting.

Laudrup said:
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If a pro can't work that out or hold peoples attention for 1/500th of a second then maybe it's not the right career for you.
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I didn't think it was about me, but as you can see from my answer above, I have it covered just fine, thanks for the career advice though;).
 
Steve said:
seems to me that clients expectations in terms of deliverables are increasing
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Of course they are, everyone wants photo's like all the staged wedding shoots they see on TV or in magazines, the reality is actually a million miles away.
I think it's largely (sorry) women (sorry again) that fall in love with these unachievable ideals, but then if they're getting married to anyone who's not a movie star, they must have been willing to drop their standard a little at some point, so there's got to be some middle ground between unrealisitic dream and stark reality, it's the pro's job to find that ground.
 
gramps said:
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All of a sudden we've got all sorts of 'allegations' being made about the O/P from standing in the way of the official photographer to now him using the opportunity to fill his portfolio!
Come on people get a grip!
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As the guy making the 'allegations'...

What we know: there are 2 sides to every story, the OP was at his cousins wedding and the official photographer felt the need to ask him to quit taking pictures.

Every pro who's answered has said - they can see the Pro's viewpoint but they've never had to resort to asking someone to not take pictures:thinking:.

Why would the pro feel the need? What's your suggestion? What could the OP have done to upset the Pro? Or is the Pro such an obnoxious bloke that he's bound to be in the wrong?

They're often portrayed that way, I've never met one though? It's a people business taking pictures of people, gone are the days where just being able to focus and expose were skills enough, it's a crowded market and if you're not the 'nice guy' you don't get booked.

the 'allegation'
The OP has a website - he's advertising wedding photography, but doesn't show any wedding images - are you absolutely certain that he wasn't planning to use any of these pictures in his portfolio? :nuts:

I would have been, without a doubt, as a fledgling business, the hardest part is building a portfolio, and I wouldn't have given it a 2nd thought - and I just might have been so keen to get good shots I'd have upset the pro, but I'd like to think I'd have discussed it with him first, and let him know the score.

But again - if I was the pro, I'd like to think I could have handled it better too.
 
London Headshots said:
A camera is a camera, you say?

Brilliant. Guess it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for me to pull out my Hasselblad at the next Christening I go to. Wouldn't raise an eyebrow at all!

Might even set up some lights, too. I mean a light is a light!

Great logic. Bet nobody would feel upstaged if you arrived at the wedding in a Rolls Royce, and the B&G were arriving in a standard Mercedes.

I mean, a dress is a dress, right? Why can't some random guest turn up in a
Caroline Castigliano wedding dress!

This could go on forever. A think isn't just a thing.

There is something in life called 'decorum'.
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I don't see anything wrong with if your only camera is a Hasselblad and you turn up at a christening with it, a Hasselblad is a camera capable of taking photos, so is a film 35mm SLR, so is a DSLR, and so do a mobile phone with buiit-in camera, you can use any of those to take a photo of the christening. There are no rules that tells you which camera you have to use at a christening, or even a wedding. Those items are the same, they're just cameras.

But not portable studio lighting.

Of course there are some moments when you can't use the wrong sort of items, like your suggestion about the guest wearing a wedding dress. Of course there is a time and place for correct needs, you got to dress in proper tuxedo if you're going to a dinning party that have black-tie dress code, of course sometimes you can't use this but can use that.

Your example of "you arrived at the wedding in a Rolls Royce, and the B&G were arriving in a standard Mercedes" so what's wrong with it? Supposing a Rolls is my only car? Do I have to sell it and buy something that's less than a Mercedes just to please the couple? Well excuse me if the Rolls is my only car and I need it to arrive at the wedding. A car is a car, it is a means of transport for getting from A to B, it is not a means of decorum. We can buy a dozen of different clothes and wear what is suitable for the events, but we can't buy a dozen of different cars and drive in the one that is suitable.

Beside, I can always let the couple know if they're interested in borrowing my car for their big day.

If you have a camera, you can bring it, but if you have different cameras then you can pick whatever camera you feel is suitable. If I turn up at a friend's wedding with a DSLR which happens to be my only camera, what am I supposed to do? Throw it in the bin, pop over to the local supermarket and hope they still got those single use film camera just to please the official wedding photographer? It is a camera made for taking photos not a symbol of decorum.

I will wear proper clothes for going to a friend's wedding but if I bring my only camera which upsets the official wedding photographer, then tough! He should just get on with his job and not think about my camera being better than his!
 
Phil V said:
the 'allegation'
The OP has a website - he's advertising wedding photography, but doesn't show any wedding images - are you absolutely certain that he wasn't planning to use any of these pictures in his portfolio? :nuts:
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I have no idea but I don't feel the need to make that accusation - even if he was the tog would not have known that and so still acted inappropriately ... as you seem to agree.

Even in a scenario where someone was being a complete nuisance with a camera, if the tog had time to go and speak to him, he had time to speak to the wedding organiser to get them to deal with it ... IMO the correct course of action rather than upsetting a guest.
 
I really hope the OP DOES have some sort of wedding portfolio and wasn't just trying to get a few shots that he could pass off as being the main tog at a wedding:

"Full - Wedding Shoot on Disc, Bride & Bridesmaid Preperation & Pre-Wedding Shoot - £795" (taken from his site)

My package including all that up to and inc the 1st dance is only £55 more, and I DO have a proper portfolio!
 
ajax_andy said:
I really hope the OP DOES have some sort of wedding portfolio and wasn't just trying to get a few shots that he could pass off as being the main tog at a wedding:

"Full - Wedding Shoot on Disc, Bride & Bridesmaid Preperation & Pre-Wedding Shoot - £795" (taken from his site)

My package including all that up to and inc the 1st dance is only £55 more, and I DO have a proper portfolio!
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What does it matter?
Why is it necessary to post his prices etc in this thread?
Who is to say you are better value than him?

This is way off IMO.
 
Phil V said:
As the guy making the 'allegations'...

What we know: there are 2 sides to every story, the OP was at his cousins wedding and the official photographer felt the need to ask him to quit taking pictures.

Every pro who's answered has said - they can see the Pro's viewpoint but they've never had to resort to asking someone to not take pictures:thinking:.

Why would the pro feel the need? What's your suggestion? What could the OP have done to upset the Pro? Or is the Pro such an obnoxious bloke that he's bound to be in the wrong?

They're often portrayed that way, I've never met one though? It's a people business taking pictures of people, gone are the days where just being able to focus and expose were skills enough, it's a crowded market and if you're not the 'nice guy' you don't get booked.

the 'allegation'
The OP has a website - he's advertising wedding photography, but doesn't show any wedding images - are you absolutely certain that he wasn't planning to use any of these pictures in his portfolio? :nuts:

I would have been, without a doubt, as a fledgling business, the hardest part is building a portfolio, and I wouldn't have given it a 2nd thought - and I just might have been so keen to get good shots I'd have upset the pro, but I'd like to think I'd have discussed it with him first, and let him know the score.

But again - if I was the pro, I'd like to think I could have handled it better too.
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Only the OP and the pro know the truth.

There is actually 3 sides to every story, person A's side, Persons B's side and the truth
 
gramps said:
What does it matter?
Why is it necessary to post his prices etc in this thread?
Who is to say you are better value than him?

This is way off IMO.
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Because if someone's never shot a wedding before and is trying to quickly grab some of friends at a wedding they aren't the main tog at they shouldn't be charging such prices.

I haven't said this is what is happening... I've said I hope this isn't the case.
 
I don't really understand how this thread got so complex :D
 
Major Eazy said:
I don't see anything wrong with if your only camera is a Hasselblad and you turn up at a christening with it, a Hasselblad is a camera capable of taking photos, so is a film 35mm SLR, so is a DSLR, and so do a mobile phone with buiit-in camera, you can use any of those to take a photo of the christening. There are no rules that tells you which camera you have to use at a christening, or even a wedding. Those items are the same, they're just cameras.

But not portable studio lighting.

Of course there are some moments when you can't use the wrong sort of items, like your suggestion about the guest wearing a wedding dress. Of course there is a time and place for correct needs, you got to dress in proper tuxedo if you're going to a dinning party that have black-tie dress code, of course sometimes you can't use this but can use that.

Your example of "you arrived at the wedding in a Rolls Royce, and the B&G were arriving in a standard Mercedes" so what's wrong with it? Supposing a Rolls is my only car? Do I have to sell it and buy something that's less than a Mercedes just to please the couple? Well excuse me if the Rolls is my only car and I need it to arrive at the wedding. A car is a car, it is a means of transport for getting from A to B, it is not a means of decorum. We can buy a dozen of different clothes and wear what is suitable for the events, but we can't buy a dozen of different cars and drive in the one that is suitable.

Beside, I can always let the couple know if they're interested in borrowing my car for their big day.

If you have a camera, you can bring it, but if you have different cameras then you can pick whatever camera you feel is suitable. If I turn up at a friend's wedding with a DSLR which happens to be my only camera, what am I supposed to do? Throw it in the bin, pop over to the local supermarket and hope they still got those single use film camera just to please the official wedding photographer? It is a camera made for taking photos not a symbol of decorum.

I will wear proper clothes for going to a friend's wedding but if I bring my only camera which upsets the official wedding photographer, then tough! He should just get on with his job and not think about my camera being better than his!
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I feel bad that you took the time to rebut the points made during a hyperbolic stretch of someone else's logic, so I'm literally responding to let you know that I read most of your post.
 
Tizer said:
I don't really understand how this thread got so complex :D
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Stick around and it will become clear that threads like this always go the same way.................:D
 
Tizer said:
I don't really understand how this thread got so complex :D
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That's because folk make assumptions, all that we do know is the wedding tog wasn't happy with the OP.

From that, we have folk thinking they know who has the contract for said wedding tog, the OP being told he doesn't know anything about weddings yet appears to be a wedding tog himself, the OP's site apparently not having wedding pics (it has one and is under construction) and loads of assumptions following that ie. no portfolio, never shot weddings, too dear etc. etc.

All in all, just par for the course in wedding threads :LOL:
 
Looking back, the only wedding I've ever taken any sort of camera to was my own (well, not entirely my own - I believe it was my wife's as well!) and that was to take snaps of the guests from our perspective. Did I P. the pro off? No, for the simple reason that we had far better things to spend £x,000 on! Most of the guests had cameras and took plenty of photos and were good enough to let me take their memory cards and have copies of all the day's photos (and snaps!) To us, those pix are far more precious than a set that we would still be regretting spending that £x,000 on had we gone down the pro route. Let's face it, plenty of marriages last less time than they should and many end up with £x,000 of photos torn in half or burnt anyway!

In this case though, I can see the hired pro's point - he probably relies on print sales to put the jam on the bread and butter that his day rate earns him and Uncle Bob may well be giving prints to other family members (or just charging them cost). However, a quiet (and polite) word in UB's ear rather than a stroppy one would have been the way to go.
 
Flightphoto said:
I can see the tog's point if the op was in the way but if he wasn't then there's not really an argument.
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I quite agree. And I think the OP must have been creating a distraction (perhaps without realising it) - why else would the hired pro have felt the need to say what he said?

Unless you've been formally involved in shooting a wedding it can be hard to appreciate just how pressured it can be. And when the couple see that images have been missed, or spoiled, it's always the pro who will get the blame.

This situation in the USA is apparently more prevalent than it is here, according to friends who've worked on both sides of the pond. Some US photographers are even recommending that their clients ban guests from bringing cameras altogether, such is the scale of the problem now.

At the end of the day society is becoming more thoughtless and self-serving, and photographers are having to assert themselves more often than ever before. Some here may think that's inappropriate, but like I said, if you've not been in their position, with your reputation on the line, then it's easy to sit and judge.
 
fracster said:
Stick around and it will become clear that threads like this always go the same way.................:D
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Lol, i like a wind up as much as the next person, but i think i'll just sit back with the popcorn and enjoy it. I don't think the forum is ready for my level of sarcasm just yet :D
 
Just finished eating my steak and chips (having a fat thursday) where are we at with the thread now? :)
 
It's amazing how a simple question has turned into a mess of assumptions.

FYI, I've actually shot 3 weddings before but due to actually hating it I actually decided not to do any more. My website was never finished as I never got around it to. I do the odd paid job and often turn down enquiries as I'm just too busy with my main job.

The wedding was an outdoor wedding. She made her comments as I was sitting down as a guest taking candid shots. Before hand I did take few shots of the other angle where I wasn't in view or distracting as the people were coming to sit down. Having shot only a few weddings, I myself couldn't believe how I was getting in the way, hence the reason for the post.

Thanks to those who decided not to make assumptions (for which are wrong anyway).
 
Flightphoto said:
Just finished eating my steak and chips (having a fat thursday) where are we at with the thread now? :)
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We're getting close to that point where someone argues about the definition of "professional".

I called it first. It's coming.
 
Nod said:
In this case though, I can see the hired pro's point - he probably relies on print sales to put the jam on the bread and butter that his day rate earns him .
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Maybe, he is just a pro, who takes a pride in getting the job done right
 
I wonder if there is a thread on some American forum titled " dam limey uncle Buck ruins my wedding shots" lol
 
Somehow many people have made it sound as if it's the photographer's big day.

the pro could've handled it far better, has some insecurities.

Assumptions made as to who the photographer is contracted to....B&G or the uncle? do we know? Not one mention on here about the B&Gs feelings on here though. Didn't seem to be in control. All he had to say was the he is the paid photographer 'when I call or have my camera to my eye, LOOK AT ME ONLY'.
 
Photogaz said:
It's amazing how a simple question has turned into a mess of assumptions.

FYI, I've actually shot 3 weddings before but due to actually hating it I actually decided not to do any more. My website was never finished as I never got around it to. I do the odd paid job and often turn down enquiries as I'm just too busy with my main job.

The wedding was an outdoor wedding. She made her comments as I was sitting down as a guest taking candid shots. Before hand I did take few shots of the other angle where I wasn't in view or distracting as the people were coming to sit down. Having shot only a few weddings, I myself couldn't believe how I was getting in the way, hence the reason for the post.

Thanks to those who decided not to make assumptions (for which are wrong anyway).
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Were you using flash? Did you have the 5D set to silent shutter mode?

Maybe it wasn't so much being in the way, but more your flash distracting people, or the sound of the loud clunk going off constantly?

I think people are making assumptions because no-one including you know what the real issue was so all people can do is make assumptions.

At my wedding own wedding the tog apparently was moaning about everyone taking pics which I wasn't aware of at the time... no idea why but maybe it just annoys some togs when others are also taking shots :shrug:
 
What a fuss about nothing...... The US photographer obviously wasn't very adept at "handling the crowd" - people with cameras at weddings are part and parcel of the "fun of the fair" - if you handle them right you can have them eating out of your hand - or you can let "the crowd" put them firmly in their place for you.
If you get some plonker with several grand's worth of photographic phallic symbol in his hands that steps in front of you when you're shooting the groups, and starts clicking away, you just take a step or two back, fold your arms, and watch them - intently (possibly hamming up your doing so a bit) - the crowd soon suss what's going on and laugh at him, he darts a worried look back at you, and scurries off into the background...........
Return down the aisle? Be standing waiting as they ready themselves to walk down the aisle, then walk backwards in front of them all the way, having told them to "go slowly".....

I long ago ceased worrying about other people's equipment - there'll always be some Uncle Dick(head) with a small fortune's worth of camera, most of them can't take a good picture to save their lives - you're the pro, you have the skill, and you're going to take the best pictures of the day.........:D
 
The trouble with my tog is she didn't take enough pictures! I also offered my 5D2 for her to borrow but she refused but nevermind, memories are memories for a reason :)
 
KIPAX said:
When the bride and groom get there pictures back and one of them is looking at the official photogrpaher and the other one is looking at you... there not going to be best pleased with those pictures..

Its not a matter of being in his way..its a matter of spoiling his pictures....group shots he needs everyone looking at him.. but as your family some will be looking at you and this ruins the whole shot..

He has been hired to do the best job possible for the bride and groom.. you spoiling his pictures means yes.. he should say somehting to you..
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The truth (y)
 
would he not just say "ok all look this way now please" or is that outside his ability as a "pro"

Its not like the OP was rummaging through the guys bag looking for a lens to use, he was out of the way taking pics. If the "pro" cant handle a group then he needs to go learn his trade.

Managing groups in a wedding is a huge part of it, if he cant do that then all he comes across as is a papparazzi who has learnt to throw the background out of focus, one the muppets you get on here saying "i've got a wedding this week, what lens do i use LOL!"
 
Photogaz;5544043 My uncle got angry with the wedding photographers saying he's our Nephew and we want him to take photos. The photographer replied "Well we're the official photographers"[/QUOTE said:
Who is the client?

A lot of parents (and close relatives) often have a (strong) view of what everyone should be doing that often differs to what B&G agreed / and or want
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I wasn't using a flash at all. Let me assure you all i was taking purely candid photos.

My uncle laid for the wedding and both him and my cousin (the bride) wanted me there and to take photos too! They wanted me to photograph the wedding officially but declined.

It turns out the photographer turns over a certain amount of photos and after a certain amount they pay per photo via their website. I think it's safe to say I was singled out because I represented a possible loss of income. There were other people there with prosumer cameras getting in the way.
 
Photogaz said:
I was singled out because I represented a possible loss of income. There were other people there with prosumer cameras getting in the way.
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So now you understand ?
 
Partly, I still think its not right to stop people taking photos during a wedding.

She could of done it in a better way. It's not my fault that's the business model she's chosen. She has to consider that when offering that service.

I did actually write the original post in a manner which asked for your opinions not in a angry sense.
 
I wish I could change my user name to Uncle Bob, that would be awesome....
 
Get a room you two!..........
 
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