Wedding photographer problems and how to escalate

andyrap

andyrap

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21
Name
Andrew
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi everyone,

Since getting married in September last year, we have had problems with the photographs from our wedding and still do not have the album.

The issue started as soon as we saw the proofs - at least half of the shots had bad and very noticeable dust problems. Our photographer agreed to clean all of this up both for our album selections, and on the shots provided on DVD (we had paid extra to buy licensed copies).

Since February, we have been chasing constantly. We viewed the album proofs 4 weeks ago and there were still images with issues. We advised the photographer and also told him how upset we were getting and that we would be seeking some compensation (he offered a portrait session to which we are absolutely not interested). Since telling him of the problem images 4 weeks ago, again we have heard nothing. In my view, given how we have complained to him and his business partner, they should have been on top of this to review, fix and get our album ordered.

We paid a lot of money (£2300) for our photography, expecting professional service and instead of an amazing reminder of the day, it is now a cause of distress that is still not resolved. The dust issue is an absolutely basic mistake to make which I don't believe they are doing enough to resolve.

Can anyone suggest what would be my best way to progress this? What legal backup I might have or course of action to follow? The photographer 4 weeks ago said he wanted to resolve amicably and quickly. For us it is getting past that now as we are the ones being left in the dark and having to do the chasing.

Already we have had 3 people ask if we would recommend our photographer as his photos are good. You can guess what we've told them.

Appreciate any suggestions.

Andy
 
I would suggest a solicitor's letter seeking immediate rectification of the problems, along the lines the photographer promised when you had the first proofs, otherwise you will be seeking damages via the courts. The photographer will then know that they have to make your project their very top priority.

imho.
 
2blue4u said:
I would suggest a solicitor's letter seeking immediate rectification of the problems, along the lines the photographer promised when you had the first proofs, otherwise you will be seeking damages via the courts. The photographer will then know that they have to make your project their very top priority.

imho.
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if you do follow this route you need to set some timesliness for rectification in the letter. One of the things you have to consider is if you do end up taking legal action (and I hope you don't need to) is that the judge will of expected all parties to of acted reasonably and tried to resolve. Showing you're trying this will buy you alot of support, so put a reasonable timeframe (four weeks) in the letter. You're also far more likely to get an order for him to resolve the issues then get any damages. To get damages in the county court you'd have to show an actual loss (financially)

Hugh
 
Thanks. I had a feeling it would be something like that.

Our priority of course is to get the album and set of digital images as we originally paid for. My issue is that I have spent over 10 hours of my own time on trying to fix the dust issues: firstly cataloguing the images which had dust (would have been a lot longer without Aperture), then poring over the album proofs to ensure all had been fixed (they hadn't). It's definitely detracted from when I actually will see the printed product.

I've suggested to him on our last call we will be seeking at least the cost of the digital files back (£300).

Thanks, Andy
 
Check your contract. There should be a clause in there about dispute resolution (if they have done it right in the first place)

If there is the necessary clause, then write to them quoting it and then go down the solicitor route if you don't get the required response.
 
I would suggest you sit down and have a good talk with your tog, ask what the heck is going on and how long it's going to take, give them some sort of deadline, say 14 days to produce a finished set of images for you to view, tell them if your not happy then your taking legal action. This will also look good if you go to court, you can then show you have given them ample chance to fix the problem.
Is the tog a member of any organizations? it might be worth contacting them as well, they may be able to help resolve any disputes.
Failing that you'll need a lawyer. Wayne
 
AliB said:
Check your contract. There should be a clause in there about dispute resolution (if they have done it right in the first place)
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Hi,

You do need to check what your contract says but a clause which allows the photographer final say in a dispute resolution would be automatically deemed unfair under the 1999 unfair terms in consumer contract regulations.


eta
I would suggest you sit down and have a good talk with your tog, ask what the heck is going on and how long it's going to take, give them some sort of deadline, say 14 days to produce a finished set of images for you to view, tell them if your not happy then your taking legal action. This will also look good if you go to court, you can then show you have given them ample chance to fix the problem.
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you do need to write this down though - just so you can show it happened. A 28 day deadline is normal for the courts as to whats seen as reasonable
Cheers

Hugh
 
As a wedding photographer for some years this would be my approach to resolve your problem.

1. If you have not already done so repeat everything in writing.
2. Contact your photographer again stating the time taken to produce an acceptable
standard set of proofs in now unacceptable.
3. Request than an acceptable set of proofs be provided within 7 days (acceptable
due to time scale from viewing first set).
4. Confirmation of completed album delivery date once final selection of images has been
made.
5. Confirm and agreement to these requests within 36 hours.
6. Failure to comply with any of the above may result in legal action taken to refund all or part of all fees paid.

Hopefully this should push him into action but if not you have warned him of your intentions. Small claims court should handle this dispute for a very small fee without the costs of any solicitors. Should it end up down this route you will be requested to prove he has failed to provide you with the professional service he was engaged to do. He will be required to prove he has provided an acceptable professional service. Small claims courts don't like cases like this and usually if negligence is agreed with some form of refund plus costs and an agreed completion date. You could also find out if he is a member of the BIPP or MPA which (I believe) both operate an assessment policy to ensure the service/product provided by their members (and none members) is of an acceptable standard.
 
snapzz said:
As a wedding photographer for some years this would be my approach to resolve your problem.

1. If you have not already done so repeat everything in writing.
2. Contact your photographer again stating the time taken to produce an acceptable
standard set of proofs in now unacceptable.
3. Request than an acceptable set of proofs be provided within 7 days (acceptable
due to time scale from viewing first set).
4. Confirmation of completed album delivery date once final selection of images has been
made.
5. Confirm and agreement to these requests within 36 hours.
6. Failure to comply with any of the above may result in legal action taken to refund all or part of all fees paid.

Hopefully this should push him into action but if not you have warned him of your intentions. Small claims court should handle this dispute for a very small fee without the costs of any solicitors. Should it end up down this route you will be requested to prove he has failed to provide you with the professional service he was engaged to do. He will be required to prove he has provided an acceptable professional service. Small claims courts don't like cases like this and usually if negligence is agreed with some form of refund plus costs and an agreed completion date. You could also find out if he is a member of the BIPP or MPA which (I believe) both operate an assessment policy to ensure the service/product provided by their members (and none members) is of an acceptable standard.
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If you specify a 7 day timeframe for resolution then a small claims court will not award costs - 28 days is what the small claims guidance considers a reasonable timeframe.

Cheers

Hugh
 
snapzz said:
As a wedding photographer for some years this would be my approach to resolve your problem.

1. If you have not already done so repeat everything in writing.
Click to expand...

This sounds like good advice to me - one thing to ensure is that everything is put down in writing and sent recorded delivery. You don't want to leave them any room to say that they didn't receive your letters.
 
Merovingian said:
Before clocking up time at the lawyers, perhaps pop into your local CAB.
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Yes, I'd opt for that option first.

£2,300 and 7 months later without is wholly unreasonable.

Most CABs have access to solicitors who are skilled in consumer law and you should get an idea what is achievable if you need to employ a solicitor to act on your behalf.

CAB's here would examine the circumstances and if the complainer had a case would then contact the trader etc. and point out their responsibilities and what could follow should they not comply.
 
boyfalldown said:
If you specify a 7 day timeframe for resolution then a small claims court will not award costs - 28 days is what the small claims guidance considers a reasonable timeframe.

Cheers

Hugh
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7 days is to supply a set of proofs only not for the completed album. I believe this time scale to be acceptable under the circumstances. This statement is intended to create a posative response from their photographer. If legal action is eventually used then I usually state 30 days noticed. I'm sure neither party wants to go down this route so hopefully it will all be resolved quickly and satisfactory.
 
With all the recent threads about wedding togs, I assume you saw this guys previous work thought it was great and decided he was a pro and up to the job, I think this is a timely reminder that you never know what you will get even if you pay top money.

Sorry to hear about all the troubles, I hope I have more luck with mine at half this price
 
snapzz said:
7 days is to supply a set of proofs only not for the completed album. I believe this time scale to be acceptable under the circumstances. This statement is intended to create a posative response from their photographer. If legal action is eventually used then I usually state 30 days noticed. I'm sure neither party wants to go down this route so hopefully it will all be resolved quickly and satisfactory.
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I undestand and agree with what you are saying , but what I'm saying is if you need to go to the legal route - which I hope you don't then in order to satisfy the Civil Procedure Rules you need to give 28 days to resolve this. A small claims court won't consider a claim for costs unless you've followed these

Hugh
 
boyfalldown said:
I undestand and agree with what you are saying , but what I'm saying is if you need to go to the legal route - which I hope you don't then in order to satisfy the Civil Procedure Rules you need to give 28 days to resolve this. A small claims court won't consider a claim for costs unless you've followed these

Hugh
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andyrap said:
Since February, we have been chasing constantly. We viewed the album proofs 4 weeks ago and there were still images with issues. We advised the photographer and also told him how upset we were getting and that we would be seeking some compensation
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I think this covers your 28 days and since the wedding was in September I also believe would cover any "unreasonable period of time" defence.
 
snapzz said:
I think this covers your 28 days and since the wedding was in September I also believe would cover any "unreasonable period of time" defence.
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no it doesn't, unfortunatly. I'm not trying to make any defence for the guy and I agree with what you are saying, but if and only if you think you are likely to end up in court there are some strict protocols to follow before you get there. These are the civil procedure rules and one of these states you must give a reasonable amount of time to remedy the issue, 28 days from the rules. It doesn't matter if its been going on 7 hours or 7 months first. He'll save himself allot of hassle if he follows them.


eta - the unreasonable time wouldn't be a defence and this doesn't relate to a defence. If you try and recover costs from the other party without following the CPR the judge will not grant them, even if you win. This isn't related to any defence to the claim that would be raised.


Hugh
 
Thank you very much for all of the detailed replies. I had built up in my mind to phone him again today but agree that getting something in writing at this stage would be the best route.

Yes we chose him based on the quality of his previous work and the albums available. It was an expensive thing for us to buy but we decided to bite the bullet as felt the service and offering was worth it. The photographs were (of course) hugely important to us.

I really hope we do not have to go down the route of legal action and the tog does the decent thing both in resolving what he was contracted to do, and recognising the unacceptable impact of his delays. I believe we should be given some reasonable compensation at this stage and if it means taking things further to get that, I am prepared to do so. Not my preferred course of action but this was our wedding at the end of the day and this has been a source of a lot of anguish and time expended by me.

He is a member of the SWPP. I had a quick look on their website but could not see anything obvious about disputes.

I find it especially hard now as I am building longer term plans for expanding my own photography in a professional capacity and I would never treat a client like this. At least I can view this as some interesting market research!

Thanks again all.
Andy
 
andyrap said:
Thank you very much for all of the detailed replies. I had built up in my mind to phone him again today but agree that getting something in writing at this stage would be the best route.

Yes we chose him based on the quality of his previous work and the albums available. It was an expensive thing for us to buy but we decided to bite the bullet as felt the service and offering was worth it. The photographs were (of course) hugely important to us.

I really hope we do not have to go down the route of legal action and the tog does the decent thing both in resolving what he was contracted to do, and recognising the unacceptable impact of his delays. I believe we should be given some reasonable compensation at this stage and if it means taking things further to get that, I am prepared to do so. Not my preferred course of action but this was our wedding at the end of the day and this has been a source of a lot of anguish and time expended by me.

He is a member of the SWPP. I had a quick look on their website but could not see anything obvious about disputes.

I find it especially hard now as I am building longer term plans for expanding my own photography in a professional capacity and I would never treat a client like this. At least I can view this as some interesting market research!

Thanks again all.
Andy
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Andy,

I'm sorry to hear about all this. The SWPP does have a code of conduct for its memebrs - I'm just seeing if I can dig it out for you

Hugh

eta - the code of conduct

"CODE of CONDUCT
Members of The society of Wedding and Portrait Photographers are governed by the code of conduct of the Society. The clauses given below indicate the general standard of conduct to which members must adhere in carrying out there professional duties. The SWPP & BPPA has power at its absolute discretion to expel or to suspend from membership any member guilty of dishonourable conduct prejudicially affecting his professional status or the reputation of the SWPP & BPPA or for his failure to adhere to the code of conduct published by the SWPP & BPPA.


Every member shall at all times present himself , his photography services, in such a manner as will uphold and dignify his professional status and the reputation of the SWPP.& BPPA


Every member shall exercise all reasonable skill, care and diligence in the discharge of the duties agreed to be performed by him giving consideration to the requirements of the client.


Any member being an employee shall not undertake photographic work outside his own organisation without notifying or obtaining permission from his employer.


A member shall not attempt to supplant another member by means of a reduction of fees.
In whatever capacity a member may be engaged he shall act in a just and faithful manner towards clients, employers, employees and towards others with whom his work is connected and towards other members.


No work shall be undertaken by a member acting by as a consultant or practitioner on the invitation of a prospective client without a proper fee.


A member, on being approached or being instructed to proceed with any photographic service upon which he is aware another member is engaged, shall notify the fact to such other member.

A member will not lay claim to any qualification that has not been properly achieved."

I'm not sure about dispute resolution though
 
boyfalldown said:
in order to satisfy the Civil Procedure Rules you need to give 28 days to resolve this. A small claims court won't consider a claim for costs unless you've followed these
Hugh
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That's not quite accurate. The vendor has a recommended 14days to respond, can be more or be less.
 
Merovingian said:
That's not quite accurate. The vendor has a recommended 14days to respond, can be more or be less.
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no its spot on - the pre action protocols can be found here

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/practice_directions/pd_protocol.htm

section 4.3 details what a should be in your letter and what a court will find reasonable

Cheers

Hugh

eta - if you wanted to pull it out of the 'other cases' protocol the supplier would get a lot longer to respond.
 
This may be a bit of an 'ask' but I've not had to pursue anything like this before and there seems to be a lot of great knowledge on the subject here. If I draft a letter, would anyone mind giving a bit of feedback as to whether I've covered all the main bases? Will leave out names of course and happy to do via PM if more appropriate.
 
I'm happy to give it a once over for you. I'd rather you posted in the open forums washed of any personal information, but if you'd rather I'm happy to PM you my email.

I may not get to it till tomorrow -

Cheers

Hugh
 
boyfalldown said:
If you specify a 7 day timeframe for resolution then a small claims court will not award costs - 28 days is what the small claims guidance considers a reasonable timeframe.

Cheers

Hugh
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Its call a 7 days letter, do that all the time at work.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Its call a 7 days letter, do that all the time at work.
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and if you do it or not its against CPR. Check the link I posted above. If you only give 7 days to rectify and then issue summons you will get costs / interest reduced as a result.

Hugh
 
boyfalldown said:
and if you do it or not its against CPR. Check the link I posted above. If you only give 7 days to rectify and then issue summons you will get costs / interest reduced as a result.

Hugh
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The guy has had like 6 months :thinking:

surely the contract would've given the photographer a timeframe to deliver the prints, if not, i am sure 6 months is way overdue.
 
Raymond Lin said:
The guy has had like 6 months :thinking:

surely the contract would've given the photographer a timeframe to deliver the prints, if not, i am sure 6 months is way overdue.
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it doesn't matter - I agree with what people say about that, but if you want or think it may go down the court route then you need to do it properly, else you'll come unstuck.


If you try to shortcut, and he's clever he'll delay you much longer if he wants to

My contracts don't give timeframes for print or album delivery. eta although this is more because I've had couples take up to 18 months to agree an album

Cheers

Hugh
 
markrichardson said:
one thing to ensure is that everything is put down in writing and sent recorded delivery. You don't want to leave them any room to say that they didn't receive your letters.
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I would go a step further and send any letters RMSD as recorded isn't 100% reliable, just so your leaving nothing to chance.

Could you provide a link to their website, as this would be good for future reference, or post it in the "shopping suppliers and bargains" section, and to anyone who might say that is unfair, don't we do that with normal suppliers who provide bad service to us ;)
 
Did you consider contacting your local newspapers? It is the kind of story they might like where it shows a professional taking advantage of a member of the public. Bad publicity is going to scare the guy more than legal action and could cause serious damage to his business. Just make sure any facts you give to the paper are accurate.

I would threaten that before you contact the papers but be prepared to talk to them if you need to.
 
i would be appalled at any pro who treats his customers in this way.
the dust problem is his fault, not yours.
theres no way we would produce a set of substandard prints, even lo res proofs , in a poor state.
unbelievable.
i would certainly have another face to face with this guy first, and state your problems very clearly,
mention your intent to take legal action if he doesnt want to play.
£2300 is an awfull lot of dosh.
hope you resolve your problems.
 
AndyB said:
Did you consider contacting your local newspapers?
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Hadn't thought of that but it's a good idea. Keen to keep it amicable as long as possible. If my plans come together, in a few years I may be in the profession myself and I don't want to make enemies. That said, it's not my fault and it has been pretty bad!

Will post my draft in a sec. Thanks Hugh for the PM.
 
andyrap said:
Hi everyone,

Since getting married in September last year, we have had problems with the photographs from our wedding and still do not have the album.

The issue started as soon as we saw the proofs - at least half of the shots had bad and very noticeable dust problems. Our photographer agreed to clean all of this up both for our album selections, and on the shots provided on DVD (we had paid extra to buy licensed copies).

Since February, we have been chasing constantly. We viewed the album proofs 4 weeks ago and there were still images with issues. We advised the photographer and also told him how upset we were getting and that we would be seeking some compensation (he offered a portrait session to which we are absolutely not interested). Since telling him of the problem images 4 weeks ago, again we have heard nothing. In my view, given how we have complained to him and his business partner, they should have been on top of this to review, fix and get our album ordered.

We paid a lot of money (£2300) for our photography, expecting professional service and instead of an amazing reminder of the day, it is now a cause of distress that is still not resolved. The dust issue is an absolutely basic mistake to make which I don't believe they are doing enough to resolve.

Can anyone suggest what would be my best way to progress this? What legal backup I might have or course of action to follow? The photographer 4 weeks ago said he wanted to resolve amicably and quickly. For us it is getting past that now as we are the ones being left in the dark and having to do the chasing.

Already we have had 3 people ask if we would recommend our photographer as his photos are good. You can guess what we've told them.

Appreciate any suggestions.

Andy
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Have you had the images assessed by a third party professional?

Have you chosen images for the album? If so when? Some albums can take months to produce, others days...
 
I had planned to phone them today but I want to get something written down - everything has been phone conversation to date. I wish I'd done this 3 weeks ago. Appreciate the various views around 7 days / 28 days. He's had 21 days to the day since our last conversation so part of me thinks 7 day deadline but I want to do it by the book to cover myself.

At this stage, we still feel we want some refund / compensation even when we get the album so I think doing things properly makes sense.

Plan in to send this by Special Delivery tomorrow. Comments welcome.

__________________________________________________
Dear xxx,

Following our last conversation on xx/xx/xxxx, I am writing to formally identify a course of action to resolve the issue of our Wedding photography as contracted with you. We have not heard anything from you in the three weeks since then and this letter is to inform you of how we wish to proceed. The elapsed time taken to provide proofs to a professional standard is unacceptable. Our own time spent in reviewing, corresponding and chasing is unacceptable.

The issue in question relates to images made at our wedding, xx/xx/xxxx, which are affected by dust within the camera degrading image quality. You notified us of the issue in late 2008 and advised you would digitally edit all affected images to repair the problems. I provided a list of photographs affected by dust to you on xx/xx/xxxx. You responded by advising you had repaired these on xx/xx/xxxx. Further review by myself identified there were still issues which were advised to you on xx/xx/xxxx.

On xx/xx I provided you with annotated versions of our wedding album proofs, identifying images which still had issues with dust. You agreed to rectify these and respond to us before progressing with the album order. Also on that phone call, you offered to provide us with a portrait session as means of compensation and goodwill. Whilst the gesture was appreciated, we declined this offer.

We request the following from you:

1) supply an acceptable set of edited and restored proofs to be provided within 28 days of the mark on this letter.
2) confirm a delivery time for the album once proofs are agreed.
3) confirm the above requirements within 36 hours of receipt of this letter.

Failure to comply with any of the above may result in legal action taken to refund all or part of all fees paid.

We are extremely disappointed to have to progress in this way; a feeling exasperated by the fact it relates to the photography of our Wedding day. We feel that you have not responded appropriately or in a timely manner when we have discussed our concerns. You have had ample opportunity to put this right, yet it is still not resolved satisfactorily and professionally. When we spoke on the xx/xx, you agreed to complete this quickly and you mentioned your desire to 'keep on good terms'. We absolutely agree with that sentiment but have seen no action from you in the last three weeks to indicate you are fixing the problems we have discussed. Once again it is left to us to contact you and do the chasing.

Seven months is a wholly unacceptable time to be waiting on photography we paid a premium price of £2300 for. The post-wedding experience does not meet with our expectations of professionalism and service at this level and has impacted how family and friends - some planning weddings - perceive the xxxxxx offering.

Yours sincerely,
.....
 
if someone took £2300 of my money and treated me like that, i'd be escalating the situation by giving him 14 days to either rectify the situation or to spend some of my money on a BUPA package.........

i hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.
 
Richard King said:
Have you had the images assessed by a third party professional?
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No I haven't. Will look into this as a third party view would be good. I've not requested every single image with issues be fixed (there was a lot), just the ones where it is in detail areas.

Richard King said:
Have you chosen images for the album? If so when? Some albums can take months to produce, others days...
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We advised our album choices in mid-January. It took another 2 months to receive low-res PDFs of the album to review, which were supposed to be fixed. First week of April, we requested full-res proofs of the album as it was not possible to review the lower-quality proofs for the problems. 2 weeks later we receive that. 1 week later when I've finished (again) reviewing them, we have the discussion about how displeased we are. That was 3 weeks ago.
 
So what about a link to his website ;)
 
TG. said:
So what about a link to his website ;)
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Don't think it's appropriate at the moment. Depending on how things pan out I will consider it.

Will definitely be making sure his business partner is fully aware of this.
 
How can someone charge that much money and not even check his equipment is in working order?:thinking:

Or am I the only one who sits there the day before checking , cleaning,checking,cleaning........:bang:

Hope this gets sorted out asap

Interested to hear/see his reply to your letter
 
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