Weddings-mirrorless or dslr

[Ben johns]

I’m looking at getting into wedding photography. At the moment I only have a Sony A6000, I’ll need another camera but I’m not sure which route to go down. I’ve been looking at the Sony A7S because of high iso but my a6000 hunts in low light and the a7s only has 12megapixels. I’ve heard that dslr’s have much better low light af but I’ve never used a dslr. There is a lot more lenses at a greater range of prices for dslr’s also

 

[Raymond Lin]

Sony A9

Honestly, any camera that you are good at using. I would say go FF DSLR but honestly, if you can pull it off with an iPhone and your client loves it, do it on an iPhone.

 

[DG Phototraining]

I now know of 3 DSLR users who've all switched to the SonyA9 recently !!! So yes, as Raymond says get that

If you're short of the £15,000 needed to get 2 and a few lenses, then buy the 2nd hand DSLRs these people are selling to buy the A9

I use 2 D750 cameras and 5 prime lenses, total cost is less than one A9 so I'll be sticking with DSLRs for a while yet lol

Dave

 

[cambsno]

DSLRs will give you the best AF and low light performance - often quite essential at weddings! The other thing (especially more if you are starting out and have no/little portfolio) is that turning up with a DSLR makes you look the part and will give customers confidence. Of course the person is more important, give me the whole of B&Q against Chippendale with just a saw and a chisel and we both know who will do the better job but in that case I do think perception helps. Its different obviously if have a portfolio of 30 weddings and have that confidence.

Lots of people are switching to Fuji and they have great bodies and lenses, they would be the only non-dslr I would consider shooting any paid work with.

 

[MatBin]

I went to a wedding recently where the pro was using mirrorless, nice small and light, no idea what the shots look like. Odd thing is, years ago when pros switched from 6x6 to 35mm there were lots of negative comments because of the size of the camera (not the size of the negative though), there was a very famous add featuring David Bailey extolling the virtues of an Olympus trip rangefinder, havent heard anyone comment about the size of the new mirrorless systems.
Just remember you will need 2 cameras, a few lenses and some form of supplementary lighting, so budget is probably going to be more of a concern as Dave has indicated above.

 

[GreenNinja67]

Buy a couple of D700's, a 35-70 f2.8 and an 85mm f1.8D.

80-200 f2.8 may be nice too.

£1500 tops and still you have pro gear.

Oh, and a couple of years to know how to use it all correctly

 

[Ben johns]

That’s what I’ve been thinking. I recently did a 50th wedding anniversary party and my Camera hunted for Focus way more than I would like. I do have a flash already so the photos I did get looked good. Think I need to rent a dslr to get a feel for the difference...my plan was to use the A6000 during the day or in good lighting and the other camera be it a mirrorless or dslr for the evening

 

[Riz_Guru]

As suggested earlier, if you wanted to go down the mirrorless route, its not going to be a cheap route. However if money isnt a issue then I would highly recommend the Sony A9 as its clearly the best option out there, its AF system and IQ easily outperform the compartive DSLR/mirrorless bodies.
The Fuji XT-2 system is also worth considering but in my usage I preferred full-frame and the associated benefits of better ISO/DR abilities.

 

[Ben johns]

As much as I would love an a9 money is an issue . The cost of lenses for Sony’s full frame mirrorless is Off putting at the moment.

 

[cambsno]

As much as I would love an a9 money is an issue . The cost of lenses for Sony’s full frame mirrorless is Off putting at the moment.

Investing in the right kit would be expensive! As others have said, 2 bodies, a 24-70 pro lens, then some of a 20mm, 35mm, 50, 85mm, 70-200... is a minimum, but 2 x Nikon D700 would be a good start as they would cost a max of £800-900 for the pair (plug: I have one in the forum!!) - you could do a Tamron 28-75 at £200 so £1500 would be the absolute minimum but then you may want flash too?

 

[Deleted member 49428]

That’s what I’ve been thinking. I recently did a 50th wedding anniversary party and my Camera hunted for Focus way more than I would like. I do have a flash already so the photos I did get looked good. Think I need to rent a dslr to get a feel for the difference...my plan was to use the A6000 during the day or in good lighting and the other camera be it a mirrorless or dslr for the evening

What lenses do you have for the A6000?

 

[Ben johns]

What lenses do you have for the A6000?

I have the 35mm 1.8, samyang 12mm f2, the kit lens which isn’t very good, 50mm 1.8 fd canon lens and 70-210 f4 canon fd.
I left the 35mm on basically the whole time I did the party. I’m pretty confident with manual focusing so I did use the 50mm fd but was too tight for where I was

 

[Ben johns]

Investing in the right kit would be expensive! As others have said, 2 bodies, a 24-70 pro lens, then some of a 20mm, 35mm, 50, 85mm, 70-200... is a minimum, but 2 x Nikon D700 would be a good start as they would cost a max of £800-900 for the pair (plug: I have one in the forum!!) - you could do a Tamron 28-75 at £200 so £1500 would be the absolute minimum but then you may want flash too?

Well the reason I’m looking at doing weddings is I’m being made redundant at some point towards the end of next year, probably getting about £7k. Obviously I can’t spend all of that but providing there’s the prospect of Work I could probably spend £2k on gear, providing my girlfriend lets me! My idea was get a good zoom lens for the Sony and use the Sony for the day stuff where low light wouldn’t be as much of an issue. For the night stuff stick to a dlsr with a 35mm or a 50mm.

 

[Ben johns]

That would be £2k from the redundancy plus whatever money I’ve saved up till then

 

[Deleted member 49428]

I have the 35mm 1.8, samyang 12mm f2, the kit lens which isn’t very good, 50mm 1.8 fd canon lens and 70-210 f4 canon fd.
I left the 35mm on basically the whole time I did the party. I’m pretty confident with manual focusing so I did use the 50mm fd but was too tight for where I was

And the 35mm was hunting?

 

[Deleted member 49428]

Well the reason I’m looking at doing weddings is I’m being made redundant at some point towards the end of next year, probably getting about £7k. Obviously I can’t spend all of that but providing there’s the prospect of Work I could probably spend £2k on gear, providing my girlfriend lets me! My idea was get a good zoom lens for the Sony and use the Sony for the day stuff where low light wouldn’t be as much of an issue. For the night stuff stick to a dlsr with a 35mm or a 50mm.

I would stay with one make and model (also for backup) even if it means my A6000 has to go. If I should jump ship id go back to Nikon, that D750 looks amazing.

 

[stevelmx5]

The last wedding I shot I used my A6000 alongside a Nikon D750. I had a 28-70 2.8 on the Nikon and used a 70-200/4 and 50/1.8 on my A6000. At the end of editing, I delivered around 500 shots and 2/3rds were Nikon, 1/3rd was Sony and the clients were happy with all of the images. Within the collection it was only me who could tell the difference because I was looking for different bokeh etc.

Mirrorless bodies will hunt in lower light (whatever blogs you read) so you do need to consider that although I took my A7/50 1.8 to my sisters' wedding a few weeks ago and shot all of the evening reception (after 8pm indoors with low lighting) and had no major issues other one or two shots that didn't focus.

With regards to taking up weddings, I'd say that it's 80% business and 20% photography. I'd generally have 2 or 3 meetings with the clients before the wedding to discuss what they want, photo styles timings etc then would generally spend around 14 hours on the actual day followed by at least one meet afterwards to go over the images and deliver the final package. As the photographer, it's not uncommon to end up becoming an extra helper on the day for the bride and there's an expectation that you will be coordinating a lot of guests who generally just want to get to the bar. If you're happy with that role, I'd suggest that you find an existing photographer happy to let you second shoot and try it out before you invest heavily in new kit.

 

[stupar]

Question - if your A6000 hunts in low light and the DSLR you plan to use for the evening shots fails what will you use instead?

Personally I would sell the A6000 and put the money into a dual body system where both bodies are the same. That way they will perform the same and cover you for redundancy (should one fail)

 

[stevelmx5]

You also need to do some research in the geographical area you plan to take up weddings in. If the market is already saturated, there's a risk that you just try to undercut them on prices and it's harder to put your prices up in the future than reduce them.

 

[Ben johns]

The last wedding I shot I used my A6000 alongside a Nikon D750. I had a 28-70 2.8 on the Nikon and used a 70-200/4 and 50/1.8 on my A6000. At the end of editing, I delivered around 500 shots and 2/3rds were Nikon, 1/3rd was Sony and the clients were happy with all of the images. Within the collection it was only me who could tell the difference because I was looking for different bokeh etc.

Mirrorless bodies will hunt in lower light (whatever blogs you read) so you do need to consider that although I took my A7/50 1.8 to my sisters' wedding a few weeks ago and shot all of the evening reception (after 8pm indoors with low lighting) and had no major issues other one or two shots that didn't focus.

With regards to taking up weddings, I'd say that it's 80% business and 20% photography. I'd generally have 2 or 3 meetings with the clients before the wedding to discuss what they want, photo styles timings etc then would generally spend around 14 hours on the actual day followed by at least one meet afterwards to go over the images and deliver the final package. As the photographer, it's not uncommon to end up becoming an extra helper on the day for the bride and there's an expectation that you will be coordinating a lot of guests who generally just want to get to the bar. If you're happy with that role, I'd suggest that you find an existing photographer happy to let you second shoot and try it out before you invest heavily in new kit.

Regarding the wedding I agree. I did the anniversary party to be sure I could take decent photos in that situation and aside from a few that weren’t that great for my first time I’m happy with what I got. My plan was ,as you say, to now approach wedding photographers and ask to second them to gain experience and portfolio images

 

[Ben johns]

Question - if your A6000 hunts in low light and the DSLR you plan to use for the evening shots fails what will you use instead?

Personally I would sell the A6000 and put the money into a dual body system where both bodies are the same. That way they will perform the same and cover you for redundancy (should one fail)

I suppose I would resort to what I did which was manual focus. I’m pretty comfortable to manual focus and while they weren’t as sharp as when the camera got the focus they were always useable. I do shoot an old canon fd Camera and I did my girlfriends brothers graduation from a boating academy using almost exclusive the 70-210 fd.
Very true. I’m a little reluctant to sell the a6000 as I like it as a camera and I like using it for my personal stuff. It’s an avenue to look at though. I’m not sure what the market is for second hand a6000’s now though, it’s getting on a bit

 

[stevelmx5]

I suppose I would resort to what I did which was manual focus. I’m pretty comfortable to manual focus and while they weren’t as sharp as when the camera got the focus they were always useable. I do shoot an old canon fd Camera and I did my girlfriends brothers graduation from a boating academy using almost exclusive the 70-210 fd.
Very true. I’m a little reluctant to sell the a6000 as I like it as a camera and I like using it for my personal stuff. It’s an avenue to look at though. I’m not sure what the market is for second hand a6000’s now though, it’s getting on a bit

I wouldn't sell the A6000 as it's still a perfectly capable camera and the results are excellent. If you're concerned about the look of it (unfortunately, a lot of people do look for a DSLR from the 'Pro' on the day, regardless of the results afterwards!), just mount a hotshoe flashgun and you immediately look like the Pro ;0)

 

[Ben johns]

I wouldn't sell the A6000 as it's still a perfectly capable camera and the results are excellent. If you're concerned about the look of it (unfortunately, a lot of people do look for a DSLR from the 'Pro' on the day, regardless of the results afterwards!), just mount a hotshoe flashgun and you immediately look like the Pro ;0)

Lol that’s what I had at the party, it does seem to change the way people perceive you

 

[Phil V]

Firstly as others have said, you need spares, so using 2 different systems is a bloody stupid idea.

Sell up and buy 2 mid quality DSLR's and a set of decent lenses.

2ndly, your idea to 2nd shoot to learn from others before setting up in competition to presumably undercut the pro that taught you is a dafter idea than 2 different cameras.

You really need to think this through better.

 

[Raymond Lin]

The perfect scenario is you want 2 identical cameras, set them up exactly the same. This means when you grab a camera, you don't really grab a camera, you are grabbing a lens and a focal length. Plus all your batteries can be swapped. This is what I do, I put the same straps on each but different colour so I kinda know which is which.

The less than perfect scenario would be both FF or both Cropped and using the same lenses. The problem with this is that one camera is more a "wide" camera and one the longer one. You also be constantly checking you don't put the wrong lens on the wrong body, but at least things like flashes will work on both and some or most lenses will work on both. If one body breaks, you might lose either a bit of reach or a bit of width.

The worst scenario is 2 complete different system, you will have to carry 2 sets of everything and if one of them break, you have lost half your focal length unless you plan to double up on your lenses. Then there is the problem of the files, different manufacturer have different look on their files, mixing them up will make editing more awkward.

 

[Ben johns]

Thank you Phil for that constructive criticism...though I agree with what you say.
I think you are right about using 2 identical cameras, however I was just exploring all possibilities.
Regarding asking photographers to train me I also think your right, I’m not sure I would want to teach another to have them start a business. However I’m not saying I would be asking to do this for free, there is a local photographer that does courses in wedding photography and to be honest if I ask a photographer and they agree that’s on them. I’m fully prepared for all of them to reply with a big fat no but if you don’t ask you don’t get .

I’m sorry if my questions may appear silly and amateurish to you but these are just thoughts that I’ve been throwing around, nothing I’ve said is what intend to do, just things that have been floating around that I opened up to discussion

 

[Ben johns]

The perfect scenario is you want 2 identical cameras, set them up exactly the same. This means when you grab a camera, you don't really grab a camera, you are grabbing a lens and a focal length. Plus all your batteries can be swapped. This is what I do, I put the same straps on each but different colour so I kinda know which is which.

The less than perfect scenario would be both FF or both Cropped and using the same lenses. The problem with this is that one camera is more a "wide" camera and one the longer one. You also be constantly checking you don't put the wrong lens on the wrong body, but at least things like flashes will work on both and some or most lenses will work on both. If one body breaks, you might lose either a bit of reach or a bit of width.

The worst scenario is 2 complete different system, you will have to carry 2 sets of everything and if one of them break, you have lost half your focal length unless you plan to double up on your lenses. Then there is the problem of the files, different manufacturer have different look on their files, mixing them up will make editing more awkward.

Very true, that’s why I was hesitant to go down the dslr route. I was looking at a6500 to be my second camera but as Phil has said for the price I could get 2 decen dslrs

 

[Project Valentine]

I just sold all my Canon gear and bought 2x Fuji XT-2 and 1x X-Pro 2 and a range of lenses. I've shot 5 weddings now full Fuji and enjoying it! Still editing those but here's a wedding that's 80% fuji and 20% canon just before I sold it all. It's a tool to do a job and I think it's good enough to get the results I'm happy with. I shot most of this wedding on the 23mm f2 (35mm because of the crop). Mirrorless seems to be doing the job for me!

 

[Phil V]

Thank you Phil for that constructive criticism...though I agree with what you say.
I think you are right about using 2 identical cameras, however I was just exploring all possibilities.
Regarding asking photographers to train me I also think your right, I’m not sure I would want to teach another to have them start a business. However I’m not saying I would be asking to do this for free, there is a local photographer that does courses in wedding photography and to be honest if I ask a photographer and they agree that’s on them. I’m fully prepared for all of them to reply with a big fat no but if you don’t ask you don’t get .

I’m sorry if my questions may appear silly and amateurish to you but these are just thoughts that I’ve been throwing around, nothing I’ve said is what intend to do, just things that have been floating around that I opened up to discussion

Let's see if I can simplify the 'getting experience' bit.

Go out and beg, put yourself forward, take on work for free, work your butt off to gain experience. Family parties lead to friends parties, lead to friends of friends weddings, lead to other opportunities.

And once you're there, you've built skills and a portfolio, (and collected the appropriate gear) you then start on the difficult part, finding a niche, finding the right customers at a price point that'll sustain a business. If you really want to shoot weddings, be aware the market is saturated, prices have plummeted over the last 5 years, and they'd been steadily falling for the previous 20.

I'm deadly serious, within 1/2 mile of my house there are 3 other wedding photography businesses, and there's nothing 'special' about where I live.

 

[Ben johns]

Firstly as others have said, you need spares, so using 2 different systems is a bloody stupid idea.

Sell up and buy 2 mid quality DSLR's and a set of decent lenses.

2ndly, your idea to 2nd shoot to learn from others before setting up in competition to presumably undercut the pro that taught you is a dafter idea than 2 different cameras.

You really need to think this through better.

What would be your recommendation for getting starting in weddings? I would never say I’m at a professional level but I can take good photos though I’ve never worked with posing people so that’s an area to work on. Equipment aside the biggest hurdle I have to get over is experience. Apart from that party I don’t have a lot of real world experience of taking “weddingy” photos

 

[Raymond Lin]

FYI I once shot a wedding with a 5D2 and 5D3. On paper and in practice they are very close in UI and ergonomics so there is no problem shooting them side by side but a part of me were always leaning on the side of the Mk3 because of the improvements from AF to daal cards to colour rendition etc.

 

[Ben johns]

Let's see if I can simplify the 'getting experience' bit.

Go out and beg, put yourself forward, take on work for free, work your butt off to gain experience. Family parties lead to friends parties, lead to friends of friends weddings, lead to other opportunities.

And once you're there, you've built skills and a portfolio, (and collected the appropriate gear) you then start on the difficult part, finding a niche, finding the right customers at a price point that'll sustain a business. If you really want to shoot weddings, be aware the market is saturated, prices have plummeted over the last 5 years, and they'd been steadily falling for the previous 20.

I'm deadly serious, within 1/2 mile of my house there are 3 other wedding photography businesses, and there's nothing 'special' about where I live.

One step ahead of me there lol
Thank you for the advice. I do agree with what you’ve said. Last Saturday was the first time I was ‘the photographer’ so to speak so was a big learning curve but I did enjoy it. I’m definitely a realist, I don’t think this will just work and fall into place. The biggest reason for this change is after working in an office for 10 years I think I’ll go mad if I have to do it much longer . So that plus my love for natural, unposed portraits have taken me down this road

 

[Raymond Lin]

Just to warn you now, a wedding photographer is more than that, you are...

IT support
Admin
Accountant
PR
Copyright lawyer
A psychologist to the couple of the day
Wedding consultant - the bride is likely never been through a wedding before so you willl know more than they do
Not to mention you need to work on all aspects of photography. Landscape (the site where the venue sits), architectural, portraiture, candid, product (ring, decoration, wedding invite, dress, shoes), food. Master of natural light and flashes or at least know enough about flashes to get you the shots.

You also need to be a people person, be nice to strangers, the ransoms, people who didn’t hire you and able to be discrete and considerate.

And can handle pressure and be cool. Don’t freak out when you run into someone famous, you really don’t know who the guests can be, can think on your toes, and don’t be afraid to be a little assertive. I’ve often ask to shoot at places where the public are not allowed just by asking and asking nicely.

 

[Orangecroc]

Just to warn you now, a wedding photographer is more than that, you are...

IT support
Admin
Accountant
PR
Copyright lawyer
A psychologist to the couple of the day
Wedding consultant - the bride is likely never been through a wedding before so you willl know more than they do
Not to mention you need to work on all aspects of photography. Landscape (the site where the venue sits), architectural, portraiture, candid, product (ring, decoration, wedding invite, dress, shoes), food. Master of natural light and flashes or at least know enough about flashes to get you the shots.

You also need to be a people person, be nice to strangers, the ransoms, people who didn’t hire you and able to be discrete and considerate.

This. After watching the photographer at my aunt's wedding last month, I knew I would never want to do it as a job. He made it look easy, but I guess that just shows he's good at it.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

This. After watching the photographer at my aunt's wedding last month, I knew I would never want to do it as a job. He made it look easy, but I guess that just shows he's good at it.

Agreed,i couldnt think how pressured it must be at first

 

[Ben johns]

Agreed,i couldnt think how pressured it must be at first

Agree with the all the above. I doubt the pressure ever elevates, I imagine you just learn how to handle it

 

[Ben johns]

I just sold all my Canon gear and bought 2x Fuji XT-2 and 1x X-Pro 2 and a range of lenses. I've shot 5 weddings now full Fuji and enjoying it! Still editing those but here's a wedding that's 80% fuji and 20% canon just before I sold it all. It's a tool to do a job and I think it's good enough to get the results I'm happy with. I shot most of this wedding on the 23mm f2 (35mm because of the crop). Mirrorless seems to be doing the job for me!

Good photos

 

[Raymond Lin]

Agree with the all the above. I doubt the pressure ever elevates, I imagine you just learn how to handle it

Proper planning.

Plan where you need to be, when you need to be. So when you get into the car, you know where to go, give yourself enough time to get there. Make sure the sat nav post code is the right post code….often it's not, or not the entrance.

Know the heart beat of a wedding, of the routine, expect THE shots, the kiss, the tears.

Back up, back up, back up. Prepare for if camera break, if memory corrupt, dead battery, dead lens, flash heads. Do you know what really helps. Put a prime on your body and go away on holiday and use that and only that for a week, no flash, no tripod, and use it to take photos of everything from your view, the food, the sights, the street, the people. You will learn to think outside the box within a box, you will learn a focal length, you will learn the lens, you will learn the limits of both what the gear can do and also what you can do with the gear. It's an experience that will exchange your skills in a way that let you know how far you can push yourself with what you have in your hand.

So imagine if everything in your bag breaks and you end up with just 1 camera and 1 lens….what can you do with it?

Drink plenty of water, breath, deep breaths, rubber soles (leather makes an awful noise), wear something appropriate (not a T-shirt!), have right insurance,

Smile!

 

[Ben johns]

Speaking of things breaking my flash did stop working, found out the batteries I used gave a hopeless recycle time of 1 flash every minute!! Ended up having to bounce my on built in flash off the ceiling!

 

[Raymond Lin]

Speaking of things breaking my flash did stop working, found out the batteries I used gave a hopeless recycle time of 1 flash every minute!! Ended up having to bounce my on built in flash off the ceiling!

I do that anyway…..and learn to balance flash recycle time with battery usage vs ISO.

If you double your ISO and you half the power (or the inverse square law will say something about that), and in theory it last twice as long etc.