1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Yea I was bouncing the off Camera off the ceiling already. When it came to bouncing the on camera flash I had to hold it there so I was one hand down, pain! Glad it happened then though when it wasn’t critical!
    That had never occurred to me, I did have the camera on 100iso the whole time I was using it.
     
  2. Raymond Lin

    Raymond Lin

    Messages:
    4,151
    Name:
    Raymond
    Edit My Images:
    No

    Firing full power will blind people, kill your flash, slows recharge and you get no ambient light.

    Up the ISO you get
    lower flash power
    longer battery
    faster recharge time
    more ambient light (and colours)
     
  3. alfbranch

    alfbranch

    Messages:
    8,167
    Name:
    Alf
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Mirrorless of course the Hasselblad X1D at that
     
  4. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    So would you advise against using ttl flash? The flash I have is ttl and that’s how I was using it
     
  5. Raymond Lin

    Raymond Lin

    Messages:
    4,151
    Name:
    Raymond
    Edit My Images:
    No
    With flash I go manual in the camera settings (to get the ambient), you can leave the actual flash in ETTL so it can lit the subject correctly.

    If the flash is off camera however, everything is manual, I like to control the light at that point.
     
  6. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Oh right ok. I saw something like that some for sunset portraits. Exposed for the sunset then lit the models with the flash
     
  7. Raymond Lin

    Raymond Lin

    Messages:
    4,151
    Name:
    Raymond
    Edit My Images:
    No
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Yea that’s the kind of thing I’ve seen, nice photo :)
     
  9. Project Valentine

    Project Valentine

    Messages:
    642
    Name:
    Jack Valentine Parkinson
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Thanks mate :)
     
  10. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

    Messages:
    3,912
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Just to add ot a few points already made - cos I think they are mega important :)

    2 cameras the SAME - so much easier even in the PP they will look the same

    NOT 2 9-year old tech 12mp single slot cameras as have been suggested in the D700 - yeps its good, but its no longer a good Wedding camera given how far (and safer) things have moved on

    2nd shooter for training - lol - the ONLY 2nd shooters I use are already experienced Pros, a 2nd who isn't is just playing at it and more of a liability than a use. Pay me £300 for the day though and I might consider having a 2nd along, though I'd be amazed if I used many of their shots

    You said "I take good photos" - FAB :) But who says? Your mum? And good shots of what - being a good Street tog could defo be useful, but good at insects, birds in flight not so much. Post a link to your photos and get some useful commentary for a) if you are any good, and b) if those skills are useful in Weddings

    "never worked with posing people" gotta learn mate unless you truly want to be a 'reportage' only tog and you'll find a lot of couples don't want that

    "my love for natural, unposed portraits" is the sort of thing I hear a lot and especially at camera clubs, it usually translates to - I've no idea what I'm doing when there's a person in front of me I have to talk to let alone pose. Being a 'natural unposed' kinda tog is more likely to be a cop out on your behalf than a true aim IME; as a lot of natural unposed looking photos are actually carefully crafted

    And while many togs will avoid using flash at all costs you still need one in the bag and with a good idea of how to use it, as has been said already its usually mixing ambient and flash either for when you just need more light or more creatively with OCF

    TONS to learn but you can do so from teh current safety of a paid job, however infuriating it may be, and that gives you a lovely safety net to dip your toe into Weddings - and discovering why many of us love doing them :)

    Good luck on your journey - but lets see some of your photos anyway

    Dave
     
  11. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Thanks for the information :). My intention is to as you say did my toe in while working at my current job.
    About the photos I’ll post a Flickr gallery with some of my photos this evening
     
  12. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  13. Raymond Lin

    Raymond Lin

    Messages:
    4,151
    Name:
    Raymond
    Edit My Images:
    No

    My reservations for a 2nd shooters are...

    I have been asked by many people if they could come and be my assistant, I respectfully decline for many reasons:-


    1 – Insurance, currently I do not have the insurance beyond just me, so I would have to pay extra to cover an “employee”.


    2 – His temperament, how he interacts with a large group of people. This can’t be judge be talking on email or the phone or meeting. Also down to the way he dresses. It should be shirt, tie and trousers at minimum. NO DRINKING on the day, my rule. I get offered almost every wedding by the couple themselves no less that I should have a drink with them I the evening and often it is a free bar. Even when it’s not a free bar, random guests would offer to buy me a drink as they see me running around all day. I always decline, every time, at most I have a coke. Not only because to stay professional which shouldn’t need to be reminded, you also want to keep an eye on your gear and also can you imagine if something goes wrong, something unrelated even, like gear failure or you lost a memory card. Human beings being human beings will remember the bad things like “yeah, all I remember from that night is he drinking the free booze!”. Even when you only had 1 drink and they insisted as well, they will forget the hard work you put in and remember you “took advantage”….So, never, ever, ever.


    I’ve seen someone I know who 2nd shot for a friend and after the first dance he put his camera away and then literally got drunk with the guests, then proceeded to post on Facebook (How I found out) how much he was enjoying the wedding with a glass of champagne in his hand…words fails me. He asked me to 2nd shoot for me before too…it would reflect SO badly for me. Dodged that bullet.


    3 – There is the problem of arranging time, places to stay, food. My normal arrangement is the couple would provide me with expenses for accommodation and food on the day, it would be unfair to suddenly double their cost because between our meeting and their wedding I took on a 2nd shooter. If the 2nd shooter pays for his way then I guess this is not a problem, however, he has to make his way to whatever venue I am going to, there is little to no chance it will be near his house.


    4 – then there is the cost, if I am paying someone to do a job, on top of paying for insurance, I will have to charge that back to the client in order to maintain a healthy profit margin. I will have to know 100% this person will benefit me, from a business perspective I am not here to teach, if my intention is to teach I would run a workshop, away from a wedding day. A wedding day is the couple’s time, paid time, it should not be used as teaching time. So a 2nd shooter is not there to learn, he is there to produce good images.


    5 – Gear – the 2nd shooter needs his own gear, he shouldn’t be learning to use mine on the day, or think he can just borrow some lenses. I pack for my shoot, not all of the sudden an extra person. His gear should ideally matches mine in terms of files, so throwing in some 600D files in the mix of a 5D4 will no doubt frustrates me in processing to a point that I won’t use most if not all of it….then if I don’t use his images, then what’s the point of him being there in the first place.


    So all in all, the idea of that someone can come shoot for me is “helping me” isn’t really applicable unless they:-


    1 – Have a body of work that I admire, not just competent, but actually admire. Ideally a set of work that would blend seamlessly into mine.

    2 – Have the experience thus their own gear and know what they are doing.

    3 – I get along with


    If such person come along I would be happy to pay more than merely £300, it would be for a job where the client asks for more coverage and is happy to pay. Then I will ask someone to shoot WITH me, and we will go back to the client to discuss a rate that all sides are happy with.


    FYI – I went in too by dipping my toes in but I made my couples at the beginning I am building a portfolio and let them take a chance on me, for a reduced rate. I did learn on the job but all parties are well aware and all happy with the arrangement. My rates went up as per my standard and my experience.
     
    Craigus likes this.
  14. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

    Messages:
    2,178
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    There are some nice photos there, but I personally think there are only 2 or three that I would say were worthy of being paid for.
     
  15. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    That’s cool, which ones out of interest? There’s a few that I took after my flash stopped working, all the high iso party ones so I’m not incredibly happy with how they came out
     
  16. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

    Messages:
    2,178
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  17. Raymond Lin

    Raymond Lin

    Messages:
    4,151
    Name:
    Raymond
    Edit My Images:
    No
    There is a reason why FF, Fast Primes and the latest generation cameras can be REALLY REALLY beneficial.

    I would not be able to do this 10 years ago with a Canon 30D

    [​IMG]

    ISO 2500, 1/100th, F/1.4

    If you are shooting at 2.8, you would be pushing 10,000 ISO !

    AF is also critical.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 5:33 PM
  18. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Cool, so what about the others don’t quite cut it?
     
  19. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Yea it did suck to be honest. When my flash stopped working I really felt it lol.
    I can see what you mean by adjusting the camera to the ambient light in that photo. Was 2500 enough to expose for the background or was it underexposed a lot? Just curious cos at the part I was at 6400 1.8 1/160th was still really dark
     
  20. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

    Messages:
    3,912
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    There are problems with all of them, like viewpoint or timing

    Viewpoint - like the B&G cutting the cake but you can't actually see the knife so are they really cutting it or just hiding their hands behind it? And all the crap behind through that gap over the Bride's shoulder shouldn't be there. The dancing ones aren't good either and the PP is weird

    Timing - like the not too bad one of the couple outdoors where a second or two later and that bloke merging with her head would have gone, or you taking a step to the right would have hidden him

    Granny with bunny ears and her hand chopped off, horror lighting on a baby, etc. and these are just the quick comments, is not a good set for a prospective Pro yet we have to conclude this is your good stuff as why else show it

    I think you need to buy your new gear and get good at using it before even launching yourself with a few free/cheapie Wedding offers - but hey, we all start somewhere and most of us would cringe at the standard of work we were putting out when we first shot a Wedding :D

    Dave
     
  21. Raymond Lin

    Raymond Lin

    Messages:
    4,151
    Name:
    Raymond
    Edit My Images:
    No
    That’s pretty much OOC, I processed it a little bit honestly not much.

    If the band or DJ did not have their own lights, or you are in a venue where there are none then I put my own flashes up in the back.

    Some togs like to shoot with a pitch black background and drag the shutter for a streaking light look but I prefer a lit background for ambience.
     
  22. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I understand, thanks for the comments. So I need to concentrate on the background and what’s in frame/what needs to be in frame?
    With the couple outside I actually didn’t notice it until you mentioned it!!
    What’s wrong with the dancing ones? (Aside from them being too dark) and the pp?
    How would you suggest I practice? This Is something im willing to work at, even if I don’t become I proffesional I’d like to be abke to take “proffesional” level photos
     
  23. Orangecroc

    Orangecroc

    Messages:
    2,178
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Make friends with some bands/musicians and get them to let you take your camera into the gigs and practice photographing the crowd. Timing so that people don't look awkward, eyes open etc...
     
    Phil V likes this.
  24. Raymond Lin

    Raymond Lin

    Messages:
    4,151
    Name:
    Raymond
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Go on the street and take street photography, go clubbing with a pocket compact with manual controls, the dance floor with those lasers can make good interesting shots.
     
  25. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Ok, well it’s a lot to take in! I won’t make excuses for the quality of photos, they are what they are. But I was a bit nervous, I’ve never taken photos in front of big groups. That plus I did feel a bit under pressure, especially as the flash stopped working. It almost made me think along the lines of as long as I’ve got something it’ll be ok, did have the effect of just taking a photo so I had it as opposed to making sure it was as good as it could be.
    That being said I do recognise the areas you’ve highlighted. Now they have been highlighted they do feel like there wasn’t a lot of thought behind them
     
  26. Raymond Lin

    Raymond Lin

    Messages:
    4,151
    Name:
    Raymond
    Edit My Images:
    No
    That's the thing, when something stopped working, you got to literally BREATH and think….what can I do.

    One of the weddings I shot in my 2nd year, my 24-70 died, the 24-70 was my bread and butter lens at the time before I moved into prime…so what do you do when you main lens dies? You adapt, this is what to do. No-one carries around 2 x 24-70 so I shot 16-35, with a 50mm most of the day.

    If your flash dies, technically you just use another one (I have 5, one wedding, 2 died and I have another wedding the very next day but I got by with 3), this is why back up is VERY important.
     
  27. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Yea, for a while I thought I was screwed until I remembered the on camera flash, was just luck that I had played around with bouncing it off my living room ceiling so I knew it would be able to do it
     
  28. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    This is the whole set from that night. There are a few that the exposure is way off so I had to up the exposure way too much in post, it’s pretty obvious which ones they are lol
    https://www.flickr.com/gp/145197982@N02/HH14P5
     
  29. ukaskew

    ukaskew

    Messages:
    2,943
    Name:
    Chris
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I used a Sony RX1 at my first few weddings (alongside Fuji gear), couldn't get much smaller! Really, nobody cares how you look with your gear as long as you're doing your job properly. Only one couple has ever asked what gear I will be using, and I may as well have been speaking Japanese when I told them anyhow.

    I know a hugely talented wedding photographer who will shoot nearly all of a wedding through the tilt screen now, he says it's the most liberating thing imaginable as he can a) see what is going on around him at all times, and b) be incredibly discreet.

    The only potential gear related issue I've run into is on two separate occasions the vicar banning photography entirely during the ceremony...until I showed them firing a few frames on my Fuji with the silent shutter...photography was back on!
     
    Cagey75 likes this.
  30. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    5,713
    Name:
    Keith
    Edit My Images:
    No
    This comes up in wedding related photography threads almost always. It makes me feel the wedding scene is much more gear orientated than photography. I've only ever shot weddings when asked, by people who knew I was capable, and were happy with my work. I have never advertised myself for the service, but if I did, the gear I use would be the last thing they'd know about. Tbh It's about the least enjoyable type of photography I can think of, which is why I steer clear. But, I hate to say no, and I haven't died doing one ... yet! :D Thankfully, any weddings I shot the priest was fine with me using bounced flash, approaching the altar - even walking up on to and shooting from it during the vows, blessing of the rings etc - I approached and asked them for permission before ceremony.

    There's hard working pro wedding photographers out there using Fuji and even M43 kits, and producing amazing results. I never hear them moan about needing more pixels, or better ISO, or not having fast enough lenses, and their clients are always satisfied. I feel it is most definitely much more about what you capture, rather than what you used to capture it. A photographer with a good eye who is competent in their gear and using a pair of X-T1 bodies and a few primes will produce a much more pleasant set than someone just in it for the money, using the latest and 'greatest' Full frame bodies and fanciest glass. That goes for all forms of photography really.

    To the OP, I would suggest doing some smaller events, portrait sessions and group shoots before considering diving into the wedding scene. Know your gear inside out, have back ups of everything, and don't offer the service until you are 100% confident in yourself. Wedding photography can be pretty stressful, I will give them that, all wedding photographers work hard and they earn their money - but they all had to start somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 9:48 AM
  31. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic

    Messages:
    4,837
    Name:
    Terry
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I would suggest that some of those shots show the right sort of potential.
    a few of the others show more a lack of Judgement of "what to select" to show us or clients.
    The problem with weddings and social photography is not the quality of the "Stand out" shots, but the overall quality of the "also rans".
    The very worst should be at least very acceptable.

    To day it seems most clients expect to see several hundred shots of their day, and it takes a great deal of professionalism to keep the standard up to that technical and. interest level that they demand.
    The technical side should be second nature by the time you tackle a wedding. and people skills at least equal to ones visual skills. I suppose for the documentary style shots the greatest asset is the ability to predict or second guess what will happen next and to be totally ready for it. this takes experience and understanding of human nature.

    The equipment that you use for this. comes way down the scale of importance. as Just about any half way decent modern camera will suffice. provided that it can produce the right results in your hands, consistently, and with out you having to stop to think, or fumble for the right settings. Then it will do well enough.
    It is definitely not a good idea to take unfamiliar kit to a wedding.
    It has the habit of catching you out and making you look a right plonker.

    Much the same as wearing a comfortable pair of shoes as against wearing brand new ones that will kill you in the first hour.
     
    Raymond Lin likes this.
  32. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Cheers. I’m happy enough with them as my first time taking those kind of photos and coming from landscape photography as what I do mainly.

    I wanted to use the party mainly to see if I even enjoyed it, which I did, and to see if I could anything that showed any promise which I feel with practice and tweeking I can do in the future.

    The biggest hurdle for me I think is being able to get in the practice, my family gatherings are a lot more sedate than that usually lol
     
  33. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic

    Messages:
    4,837
    Name:
    Terry
    Edit My Images:
    Yes

    All sorts of event will be happening in you locality.
    From church bazaars to local social and public events. People of all sorts take their cameras and shoot these occasions. It is an Ideal situation to practice your photography. And will get you comfortable shooting people close up and personal. You can even put them up on facebook or the like for them to look at.
    If you look like you know what you are doing you will never even be questioned. Though I am sometimes asked by people, who I am working for.. .They assume you are doing it professionally, if you work like a professional..... I am long retired
     
  34. Raymond Lin

    Raymond Lin

    Messages:
    4,151
    Name:
    Raymond
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Pretty much.

    There are normally stand out photos from the day, the one that when you take it, it takes your breath away on the LCD and your heart skips a beat and think "I can't believe I took that, it came out amazing!" But overall of the rest, they also need to be better than most people would even imagined. Basically your standard needs to be about 3 gears higher than everyone else.

    Just a random screen grab of my LR for the morning to give you an idea

    [​IMG]

    I would say a few that grabbed my attention from the day are.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  35. Ben johns

    Ben johns

    Messages:
    188
    Name:
    Ben
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Nice :) their all really good
     

Share This Page