Wez's D810 thread

[wezza13]

I'm going to be doing a lot of testing with this D810, so I will put all the pics in this thread.

So far, I'm very impressed with how it renders these images in poor light.

Taken today in the garden, after work.

Robin by Wez Filtness, on Flickr

 

[Grumps1974]

Nice capture of a great little bird.

 

[wezza13]

Thank you, Martin

One thing I noticed too, was that I had quite a few shots where the wings were sharp but the eye wasn't. I imagine this was down to the Group AF function, rather than needing and AF Fine-Tune, as it focuses on the thing that is closest.

Will try Single-Point AF next time

 

[BillN_33]

Thank you, Martin

One thing I noticed too, was that I had quite a few shots where the wings were sharp but the eye wasn't. I imagine this was down to the Group AF function, rather than needing and AF Fine-Tune, as it focuses on the thing that is closest.

Will try Single-Point AF next time

I'm going thru all this Wez - what I find with the D810, because it is new to me is that I can see technical errors due to my "wrong settings" in all the shots that I have taken so far, not only birds but general stuff - I think that it is more demanding than say the D750 or D7200

 

[Swanseajack]

Thank you, Martin

One thing I noticed too, was that I had quite a few shots where the wings were sharp but the eye wasn't. I imagine this was down to the Group AF function, rather than needing and AF Fine-Tune, as it focuses on the thing that is closest.

Will try Single-Point AF next time

I'm going thru all this Wez - what I find with the D810, because it is new to me is that I can see technical errors due to my "wrong settings" in all the shots that I have taken so far, not only birds but general stuff - I think that it is more demanding than say the D750 or D7200

Can you gents have a look at your camera settings for me. In the Shooting Menu, where you have "Set Picture Control" can you check if the camera is applying some sharpness and clarity as mine was when setting to Standard. I thought if shooting in RAW everything would be set to zero as you alter the image in your post processing? After looking at the manual I have now set the camera to Flat and all settings in this mode to zero. Will also try Neutral mode in time.

Wez, I had a similar experience when using the group AF for a wren close up, I thought I was nailing it and my best shots of a wren to date, when I loaded them on computer the camera seemed to be focusing more on the wing and things behind, since gone to spot and will test further when I get some longer lenses and filling the frame.

 

[BillN_33]

Just looked - mine, (and it must be the default), has Sharpening 3.00 and Clarity +1.00 in SD Standard and different settings in the other modes - I will have to read the manual

all the settings seem to have sharpness and Clarity added

I was thinking about starting a thread in "Birds" re the D810 settings that we are using - but it would probably be transferred out to another section by the Mods, so I won't bother

 

[Swanseajack]

Just looked - mine, (and it must be the default), has Sharpening 3.00 and Clarity +1.00 in SD Standard and different settings in the other modes - I will have to read the manual

all the settings seem to have sharpness and Clarity added

I was thinking about starting a thread in "Birds" re the D810 settings that we are using - but it would probably be transferred out to another section by the Mods, so I won't bother

I was surprised at this Bill, hence asking the question. Never noticed or checked before on my other Nikon cameras.

 

[BillN_33]

Just wondered Simon ...... are they just for jpeg or do they also apply to RAW images? ....... again I need to read the manual

 

[BillN_33]

I was surprised at this Bill, hence asking the question. Never noticed or checked before on my other Nikon cameras.

seem to be the same on my D750

 

[Swanseajack]

Just wondered Simon ...... are they just for jpeg or do they also apply to RAW images? ....... again I need to read the manual

They are applied to the RAW image by the looks of things, hence my initial question, as I may have adjusted something without realising the affect.

 

[PaulButler]

The settings on the picture controls are only applied to the jpeg. If you are shooting in raw only then they will only apply to the embedded jpeg that the camera uses for the preview on the back screen. However it also uses this same jpeg to calculate the histogram so keep that in mind if using any of the picture controls. I would expect that the nikon software though will apply these settings on import of a raw file, adobe s/w does not and nor does dxo or most other non proprietary s/w (to the best of my knowledge). I have my picture control set to flat, this seems to give the closest match of what you see on the rear lcd as to what gets imported into LR in my case.

 

[Swanseajack]

The settings on the picture controls are only applied to the jpeg. If you are shooting in raw only then they will only apply to the embedded jpeg that the camera uses for the preview on the back screen. However it also uses this same jpeg to calculate the histogram so keep that in mind if using any of the picture controls. I would expect that the nikon software though will apply these settings on import of a raw file, adobe s/w does not and nor does dxo or most other non proprietary s/w (to the best of my knowledge). I have my picture control set to flat, this seems to give the closest match of what you see on the rear lcd as to what gets imported into LR in my case.

Just had a email from Nikon Support and here's the reply.


HI Simon,


These are part of the Picture Control set in camera but wether or not this Picture Control is applied when a piece of software is opening and processing the Raw file will depend on the software itself. For example, Nikon View NX-i will open and process the NEF file and apply the picture control settings set in camera to the file in the software as this is a Nikon workflow but Lightroom may or may not apply this Raw image info - it likely does not.


Kind Regards,


J.B. Maher


Customer By CSS Email (Simon Rees) (22/04/2016 10:05)

Hi JB


Why is the camera applying sharpness and clarity to a RAW image?


Simon

 

[PaulButler]

Yep, that email confirms my understanding. The reason it applies sharpness, and to some extent clarity (which is a form of contrast boost) is that a raw file is pretty uninspiring to look at (converted without adjustment). If you use the flat picture control it will have no additional tweaks applied (well it actually has a sharpening of 1 but that is nigh on ignorable). Straight from the camera these are also pretty uninspiring to look at, but it means you can push the edge a little more during capture (i.e. the histogram shows blown highlights more accurately)

Sorry @wezza13 slightly derailed your thread here.

 

[gramps]

Wez, I had a similar experience when using the group AF for a wren close up, I thought I was nailing it and my best shots of a wren to date, when I loaded them on computer the camera seemed to be focusing more on the wing and things behind, since gone to spot and will test further when I get some longer lenses and filling the frame.

Single AF point will always give the best focus option for 'bird on a stick' but I find Group Area-AF to be superb for BIF and where the bird is surrounded by vegetation which could distract the AF point ... it sort of stabilises it

IME setting to 'Flat' looks horrible in the LCD screen!

 

[BillN_33]

Can we just clarify what the histogram information relates to, because Clarity does move the B & W points

if you are shooting RAW does the histogram information relate to the "adjusted by Nikon" jpeg or the "very flat and dull" RAW image

 

[PaulButler]

Can we just clarify what the histogram information relates to, because Clarity does move the B & W points

if you are shooting RAW does the histogram information relate to the "adjusted by Nikon" jpeg or the "very flat and dull" RAW image

The adjusted by Nikon jpeg. As I said earlier, it uses the embedded jpeg to calculate the histogram and that will include any picture controls set.

 

[BillN_33]

The adjusted by Nikon jpeg. As I said earlier, it uses the embedded jpeg to calculate the histogram and that will include any picture controls set.

Thanks Paul, I did see your earlier reference, but I just wanted to confirm it as a specific point

so if you shoot RAW all the time it maybe best to use 0 settings in the picture controls

 

[PaulButler]

Thanks Paul, I did see your earlier reference, but I just wanted to confirm it as a specific point

so if you shoot RAW all the time it maybe best to use 0 settings in the picture controls

That is what I do. I agree with Roger @gramps - it doesn't look great on the rear lcd. It does give you more accurate exposure information though for the histogram. With some of the other picture controls it can show as blown on the lcd when it isn't so not the end of the world as at least it's safe. I've not had a situation where using a picture control other than flat has not shown as blown when it really was.

 

[Swanseajack]

Single AF point will always give the best focus option for 'bird on a stick' but I find Group Area-AF to be superb for BIF and where the bird is surrounded by vegetation which could distract the AF point ... it sort of stabilises it

IME setting to 'Flat' looks horrible in the LCD screen!

That is what I do. I agree with Roger @gramps - it doesn't look great on the rear lcd. It does give you more accurate exposure information though for the histogram. With some of the other picture controls it can show as blown on the lcd when it isn't so not the end of the world as at least it's safe. I've not had a situation where using a picture control other than flat has not shown as blown when it really was.

So what picture setting do you recommend for birds, STD, Neutral, Flat etc.......or does it make any difference if you put all the points to 0... ???

@gramps IIRC it was on the first day of receiving the camera when the Wren was so close, due to my shoulder healing I haven't had a chance to try BIF yet and it was probably user error not getting the Wren spot on, along with the shoulder

 

[PaulButler]

So what picture setting do you recommend for birds, STD, Neutral, Flat etc.......or does it make any difference if you put all the points to 0... ???

Bird photography isn't my main interest by any means, but even if it was I'd still use flat or neutral, simply because it gives me the best info on the lcd. I don't use Nikon s/w so am happy to PP the pic as I see fit in LR/PS (sometimes dxo). I'm 99% sure that the picture controls all have a different start point and that the parameters we can tweak are on top of their default start point so setting them all to 0 won't give the same results between different picture controls. The only thing I will tweak in the picture controls is sharpness as sometimes I'm looking for critical focus and with 0 sharpness applied the review image can look soft. Sharpness seems to have little effect on exposure, but saturation/clarity etc do. Hope that makes sense.

 

[wezza13]

Thank you for the discussion, guys. I'll check my camera settings in a bit, just got in from work.

A few of us have got D810's now, so it makes sense that us birders discuss it in here. Not a problem

@PaulButler Some interesting points raised, not derailing thread at all

 

[Osmo]

Great shot of the Robin, Wez!

I was hoping to find a D810 themed thread featuring bird photography so this is great. I have just recently part exchanged my D800 for a D810 and I have to admit, and at the risk of ridicule, I'm struggling with it for some reason. I'm actually finding that I need to use a faster shutter speed than what I had become accustomed to with my D800 when using it handheld.

I don't have the manual with me so apologies for that but can someone help me with the group area focus feature please? To check that I haven't inadvertantly changed a detrimental setting can I check that when group area focus tracking is referred to, what is meant by 'tracking' is that the nearest focal point is selected within the group to differentiate between the closest object and the background rather than the 5 focal points actively tracking the subject around the viewing area like 3D tracking does?

Thanks.

 

[gramps]

@Osmo this might help: https://photographylife.com/nikon-group-area-af-mode

 

[Osmo]

Thanks Gramps. To make sure I understand this correctly, it tracks the subject within the range of the 5 active focal points, and if one of them 'locks-on' on the subject closest to the camera then that becomes the active focal point?

 

[gramps]

Thanks Gramps. To make sure I understand this correctly, it tracks the subject within the range of the 5 active focal points, and if one of them 'locks-on' on the subject closest to the camera then that becomes the active focal point?

That's about my understanding but I really haven't noticed too much switching to the subject closest to camera when used with small birds ... for me it sort of acts like an enlarged AF point, making it less likely to switch to a nearby subject and lose focus on the bird (as sometimes happens with single AF point).
Not sure I'm explaining it well but if you use it I am sure that you will experience how it stabilises focus

 

[Osmo]

@gramps Thanks mate, appreciate that. Good explanation.

I've noticed a similar thing about the lack of switching. Other than my initial expectation of it tracking across the whole viewing area, my frustration was that the focal point the camera selected often meant that the birds eyes wasn't in focus, deeper field of view is in order perhaps!

 

[gramps]

@gramps Thanks mate, appreciate that. Good explanation.

I've noticed a similar thing about the lack of switching. Other than my initial expectation of it tracking across the whole viewing area, my frustration was that the focal point the camera selected often meant that the birds eyes wasn't in focus, deeper field of view is in order perhaps!

I guess it's a case of how much of the subject is in the viewfinder, I'm often significantly far away with the subject small in the frame ... if the subject fills the frame more single AF point may be more appropriate

 

[Osmo]

Thanks. With my lenses, filling the view finder is a luxury that is beyond my means at the mo! Perhaps I should buy some camo?

 

[gramps]

Thanks. With my lenses, filling the view finder is a luxury that is beyond my means at the mo! Perhaps I should buy some camo?

Maybe ... I was at 1275mm yesterday and still wanting more reach!

 

[Osmo]

I'm doomed then. Best I can hope for is 900mm, and that's in DX mode!

 

[gramps]

I'm doomed then. Best I can hope for is 900mm, and that's in DX mode!

I tend to be in hides, for my own convenience (too old to be scrubbing around in the undergrowth!) and they are mostly for twitchers with scopes so I am at a disadvantage

 

[Osmo]

Can you imagine if you had 1500mm of reach in the hide, we might know if that goose escaped!? [emoji4]

 

[gramps]

Can you imagine if you had 1500mm of reach in the hide, we might know if that goose escaped!? [emoji4]

Minus a few tail feathers

 

[Osmo]

Superb!

 

[wezza13]

Great shot of the Robin, Wez!

I was hoping to find a D810 themed thread featuring bird photography so this is great. I have just recently part exchanged my D800 for a D810 and I have to admit, and at the risk of ridicule, I'm struggling with it for some reason. I'm actually finding that I need to use a faster shutter speed than what I had become accustomed to with my D800 when using it handheld.

I don't have the manual with me so apologies for that but can someone help me with the group area focus feature please? To check that I haven't inadvertantly changed a detrimental setting can I check that when group area focus tracking is referred to, what is meant by 'tracking' is that the nearest focal point is selected within the group to differentiate between the closest object and the background rather than the 5 focal points actively tracking the subject around the viewing area like 3D tracking does?

Thanks.

Thanks for joining the thread. It'll be nice to share D810 wildlife experiences with similar users!

Can you gents have a look at your camera settings for me. In the Shooting Menu, where you have "Set Picture Control" can you check if the camera is applying some sharpness and clarity as mine was when setting to Standard. I thought if shooting in RAW everything would be set to zero as you alter the image in your post processing? After looking at the manual I have now set the camera to Flat and all settings in this mode to zero. Will also try Neutral mode in time.

Wez, I had a similar experience when using the group AF for a wren close up, I thought I was nailing it and my best shots of a wren to date, when I loaded them on computer the camera seemed to be focusing more on the wing and things behind, since gone to spot and will test further when I get some longer lenses and filling the frame.

Just checked mine and, yes, the SD picture control is set to +3 sharpening and 1 clarity. As I use LR though, this shouldn't matter on importing to PC.

Looks like we're in for some sun this weekend so, after work this morning, I'm going to get out for the afternoon and head to the pond or somewhere similar and try Group AF, Single-Point and Dynamic 9 on some BiF. As Gramps says. I imagine Group AF will be most consistent

 

[ESHTAL]

fantastic

 

[Osmo]

Good luck with the trial Wez. Very interested to hear how you got on.

 

[wezza13]

Morning,

Typically, whilst working yesterday, the sun was out and we had a nice blue sky. About 20 mins before finishing, the dark clouds loomed over and within the hour it was raining!

Sod's law as usual.

Sitting here waiting to head out, cloudy but not as dark as yesterday afternoon,

Will just put it down as testing in cloudy conditions

 

[Osmo]

Guys, in efforts not to clutter this bird thread with irrelevance, I started a new D810 thread here https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/nikon-d810-300mm-pf-vr-ed-tc-20eiii-at-900mm.623287/
Interested in your comments over there!
Cheers
Osmo

 

[wezza13]

Having bought FoCal Pro and micro-adjusted all of my lenses, I took a load of pics in the garden yesterday afternoon, after work.

My Tamron 150-600 had to be AF fine tuned to +16 and after looking at yesterday's images on the pc, I honestly think the focus has hit a hell of a lot more than when it wasn't calibrated. I was using single point AF-C and aiming for the eyes.

Not award winning shots but this thread isn't about that!

Looking forward to getting out this weekend

P.S. I've just changed my output settings in LR so that I don't fill up my Flickr with test shots and can post the jpegs on here.