What an utter waste of life

No sympathy - do something stupid. Thank goodness the innocent people were not killed (although they are seriously injured). My heart goes out to them as they did not deserve this but at least that is 5 scumbags less stealing oxygen!
 
Too many young "drivers" brought up on a diet of video games, where crashes don't hurt! Sad to see.
 
Apparently it's a craze prompted by chasing social media Likes for the videos they film whilst doing it. The Garda say they are seeing these "driving on the wrong side" incidents daily.
 
Legislation and penalties don't matter to people like this, it has to be about enforcement and PROPER control of social media. Thankfully, the world does finally seem to be waking up to the harm caused by social media failures to prevent harmful content, governments have the capacity to take these sites down, and I feel that the only way of getting them to behave responsibly is to do so. The sites will then find that they can do what the claim to do but don't . . .

One thing in the press report caught my eye
"The GRA's Morrisroe said the organisation was looking for "tougher legislation, tougher sentencing for people who partake in these events".

He added: "Currently none of our members are pursuit trained.

"That means we cannot legally pursue anybody who's partaking in these incidents."

He called for "proper pursuit training for our members".

O'Callaghan said that the Garda Commissioner has said he would introduce pursuit training this year."

One thing about UK police forces is that they are extremely good at pursuit driving, it seems to me to be incomprehensible that the Garda doesn't operate to the same standard.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Legislation and penalties don't matter to people like this, it has to be about enforcement and PROPER control of social media. Thankfully, the world does finally seem to be waking up to the harm caused by social media failures to prevent harmful content, governments have the capacity to take these sites down, and I feel that the only way of getting them to behave responsibly is to do so. The sites will then find that they can do what the claim to do but don't . . .

One thing in the press report caught my eye
"The GRA's Morrisroe said the organisation was looking for "tougher legislation, tougher sentencing for people who partake in these events".

He added: "Currently none of our members are pursuit trained.

"That means we cannot legally pursue anybody who's partaking in these incidents."

He called for "proper pursuit training for our members".

O'Callaghan said that the Garda Commissioner has said he would introduce pursuit training this year."

One thing about UK police forces is that they are extremely good at pursuit driving, it seems to me to be incomprehensible that the Garda doesn't operate to the same standard.
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It does and will to some extent, it wont stop everyone but will stop the majority. I can guarantee you that if mandatory 5 year jail terms were bought in for people going 5mph over the limit, the number of people being caught would plummet. Extreme case I know. I get that these idiots thought it was a laugh, nothing bad would happen and they probably wouldnt get caught (and if they did a slap on wrist) but if an extreme punishment was there it would put doubt in some (not all) of them.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Legislation and penalties don't matter to people like this, it has to be about enforcement and PROPER control of social media. Thankfully, the world does finally seem to be waking up to the harm caused by social media failures to prevent harmful content, governments have the capacity to take these sites down, and I feel that the only way of getting them to behave responsibly is to do so. The sites will then find that they can do what the claim to do but don't . . .

One thing in the press report caught my eye
"The GRA's Morrisroe said the organisation was looking for "tougher legislation, tougher sentencing for people who partake in these events".

He added: "Currently none of our members are pursuit trained.

"That means we cannot legally pursue anybody who's partaking in these incidents."

He called for "proper pursuit training for our members".

O'Callaghan said that the Garda Commissioner has said he would introduce pursuit training this year."

One thing about UK police forces is that they are extremely good at pursuit driving, it seems to me to be incomprehensible that the Garda doesn't operate to the same standard.
Click to expand...

cambsno said:
It does and will to some extent, it wont stop everyone but will stop the majority. I can guarantee you that if mandatory 5 year jail terms were bought in for people going 5mph over the limit, the number of people being caught would plummet. Extreme case I know. I get that these idiots thought it was a laugh, nothing bad would happen and they probably wouldnt get caught (and if they did a slap on wrist) but if an extreme punishment was there it would put doubt in some (not all) of them.
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There are a couple of 'fly on the wall' programs about roads policing in the UK and AFAIK neither were made after about 2019???

In at least one they show pursuits are started and then stopped if the risk level becomes too great and IIRC where the driver is known to be underage they do not pursue by road and if available will do so by a NAPS chopper.

They seem to operate on the basis of initial risk assessment as to whether to commence a pursuit and that is under continuous review during the pursuit. But for sure, any such action is only undertaken by especially trained officers.

PS different protocols might exist depending on the police authority???
 
They were all angels, couldn't hurt a fly... All had a great, bright futures ahead of them so cruelly cut down in the prime of their lives... They will be sorely missed by all who knew them...

Just like the dimwits who got drunk and stole a car and then rammed into a tree! Oh, they were said to be angels etc etc.

Just hope the occupants of the car traveling in the correct direction didn't all die!
 
The original article posted by Mr.Bump showed photos of three of the occupants of the BMW. Here is a photo of the three sisters in the car the BMW hit. No photo of their seven year old nephew who is also in hospital.

Fundraising has achieved €320,000 so far, for the family.

www.thejournal.ie

Over €320k raised for sisters injured in M9 crash who have 'long and challenging road ahead'

The group were on their way to the airport when their car was hit by a BMW that was being driven the wrong direction on the motorway.
www.thejournal.ie www.thejournal.ie
 
I can't say that I have no sympathy for the teenagers but what do have is a fraction of the sympathy I feel for the innocents involved.

There are so many horrific and tragic news stories and it's worse when stupidity is involved as it's all so avoidable. It all becomes overwhelming but I do think that we should witness these things.
 
woof woof said:
I can't say that I have no sympathy for the teenagers but what do have is a fraction of the sympathy I feel for the innocents involved.

There are so many horrific and tragic news stories and it's worse when stupidity is involved as it's all so avoidable. It all becomes overwhelming but I do think that we should witness these things.
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It's not stupidity, Alan. It's nothing less than reckless, criminal behaviour. They'd stolen the BMW and drove it at speed (over 75mph has been reported) on the wrong side of the motorway and that's why they were all wearing balaclavas.
 
JohnC6 said:
It's not stupidity, Alan. It's nothing less than reckless, criminal behaviour. They'd stolen the BMW and drove it at speed (over 75mph has been reported) on the wrong side of the motorway and that's why they were all wearing balaclavas.
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I do see criminal behaviour as "stupid". It was all a stupid thing to do. That doesn't take away from the criminality and you can be a criminal without being stupid to the point that you drive the wrong way and kill people. There's criminal and there's criminal and stupid.
 
Such recklessness could also be viewed as 'malice a forethought' and any charges the driver & passengers would have faced are factored into their deliberately reckless behaviour!

PS a sadly tragic irony is that the location was in 'kildare'!
 
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woof woof said:
I do see criminal behaviour as "stupid". It was all a stupid thing to do. That doesn't take away from the criminality and you can be a criminal without being stupid to the point that you drive the wrong way and kill people. There's criminal and there's criminal and stupid.
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I strongly disagree. It's a totally inappropriate term to use in this case and by doing so you are minimising the immense gravity of the incident. It was nothing short of catastrophic. The term 'stupid' is usually used where someone has made an unthinking, foolish ,silly even..mistake. This was a series of lethal, reckless criminal choices. Language matters. You have a strange interpretation of what 'stupid' means.

Laurence has not only described the actions of those in the stolen BMW as I have..ie.. 'reckless' but added that it could be viewed as an act with malice aforethought. It's also totally inappropriate to talk about sympathy for the three sisters and the 7 year old in the same breath as sympathy for the death of the five in the BMW and apportioning the degree of it. It should lie wholly with the three young women and the 7 year old. I appreciate your wider view about loss of life during criminal acts but to say what you have regarding this tragic incident...quote.."It was all a stupid thing to do" is, as I say, completely failing to grasp the gravity, the catastrophic nature of what happened.
 
JohnC6 said:
I strongly disagree. It's a totally inappropriate term to use in this case and by doing so you are minimising the immense gravity of the incident. It was nothing short of catastrophic. The term 'stupid' is usually used where someone has made an unthinking, foolish ,silly even..mistake. This was a series of lethal, reckless criminal choices. Language matters. You have a strange interpretation of what 'stupid' means.

Laurence has not only described the actions of those in the stolen BMW as I have..ie.. 'reckless' but added that it could be viewed as an act with malice aforethought. It's also totally inappropriate to talk about sympathy for the three sisters and the 7 year old in the same breath as sympathy for the death of the five in the BMW and apportioning the degree of it. It should lie wholly with the three young women and the 7 year old. I appreciate your wider view about loss of life during criminal acts but to say what you have regarding this tragic incident...quote.."It was all a stupid thing to do" is, as I say, completely failing to grasp the gravity, the catastrophic nature of what happened.
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Agree the boys who stole that car and drove it the wrong way on the motorway chose to deliberately put other peoples lives at risk
No sympathy at all for them from me only the innocent victims in the other car
 
Very sad, the family are from my home town, Carlow. That's about 40 mins from where the crash happened in Kildare. Imagine their excitrement, on there way to the airport , buzzing! they were heading away to a wedding I believe - only to be cruely thrown into a tragic situation.

Scary that this is some weird online trend, there was an incident just the week prior and scarily another after:

www.corkbeo.ie

Another crash after car driven wrong way on motorway - days after M9 horror

The terrifying incident took place at around 3:30am
www.corkbeo.ie www.corkbeo.ie

These thugs do not GAF
 
Cagey75 said:
Very sad, the family are from my home town, Carlow. That's about 40 mins from where the crash happened in Kildare. Imagine their excitrement, on there way to the airport , buzzing! they were heading away to a wedding I believe - only to be cruely thrown into a tragic situation.

Scary that this is some weird online trend, there was an incident just the week prior and scarily another after:

www.corkbeo.ie

Another crash after car driven wrong way on motorway - days after M9 horror

The terrifying incident took place at around 3:30am
www.corkbeo.ie www.corkbeo.ie

These thugs do not GAF
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Good grief. Are they doing this to post footage on the web and get 'likes' ?

Garry E mentioned it in his post that the Garda Traffic officers aren't trained for high pursuit driving. Amazing. They are now organising that.

www.irishlegal.com

Gardaí not trained to deal with ‘wrong way’ pursuits

The vice president of the Garda Representative Association has said that gardaí are not trained to pursue cars going the wrong way down a motorway.
www.irishlegal.com www.irishlegal.com
 
JohnC6 said:
Good grief. Are they doing this to post footage on the web and get 'likes' ?
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That seems to be the case sadly. What a messed up society we live in, where teens put both themselves and others at risk just for attention online, to boost a 'following'.
 
7 dead after another crash (2 police and 5 in the other car).

No real details yet but it must be a similar thing (as this car was 'wanted') - and even if someone was stupid enough to end up the wrong side of DC, they would stop (and turn round when safe), not drive at what was probably high speed. If that is the case then no sympathy for the 5 idiots but how bad for the families of the police doing their job.

No doubt they will be known to police and the families will describe them as great lads!!
 
theliberal.ie

BREAKING: Two police officers dead in UK after crashing into a car carrying 5 young people driving down the wrong way of a motorway

Two police officers were among seven people killed in a devastating two-vehicle collision near Middlesbrough in the early hours of Saturday morning. The crash occurred on the A66 in South Bank when a Volkswagen Passat, carrying five occupants, was driven in the wrong direction and collided with...
theliberal.ie theliberal.ie

WTF is going on with these people??

In Ireland the funeral for the 5 t***s who caused the accident here is getting more headlines than any updates on the innocent family, inc 7yr old boy, who were struck by them.
 
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Cagey75 said:
theliberal.ie

BREAKING: Two police officers dead in UK after crashing into a car carrying 5 young people driving down the wrong way of a motorway

Two police officers were among seven people killed in a devastating two-vehicle collision near Middlesbrough in the early hours of Saturday morning. The crash occurred on the A66 in South Bank when a Volkswagen Passat, carrying five occupants, was driven in the wrong direction and collided with...
theliberal.ie theliberal.ie

WTF is going on with these people??

In Ireland the funeral for the 5 t***s who caused the accident here is getting more headlines than any updates on the innocent family, inc 7yr old boy, who were struck by them.
Click to expand...

Stupidity beyond belief! The only 'positive' is that maybe this will kill this trend on the head! What we need is the government to change the law to say drive on the wrong side like this - 30 years + and no parole. It may not end it, but some these may decide its not worth it!
 
Cagey75 said:
theliberal.ie

BREAKING: Two police officers dead in UK after crashing into a car carrying 5 young people driving down the wrong way of a motorway

Two police officers were among seven people killed in a devastating two-vehicle collision near Middlesbrough in the early hours of Saturday morning. The crash occurred on the A66 in South Bank when a Volkswagen Passat, carrying five occupants, was driven in the wrong direction and collided with...
theliberal.ie theliberal.ie

WTF is going on with these people??

In Ireland the funeral for the 5 t***s who caused the accident here is getting more headlines than any updates on the innocent family, inc 7yr old boy, who were struck by them.
Click to expand...
As they said on the news.........folks should please not speculate.

One thing that was mentioned on the news was that the law breakers hit the police car on the correct side of the road in a head on collision.

Eventually we will hear what happened and how come the headon impact occured.

But come what may, no matter the amount of information adverts and negative press about such crass behaviour by those acting in a criminal manner......there will sadly, it seems, always be a few that risk their lives and others by their actions! :(
 
Box Brownie said:
As they said on the news.........folks should please not speculate.

One thing that was mentioned on the news was that the law breakers hit the police car on the correct side of the road in a head on collision.

Eventually we will hear what happened and how come the headon impact occured.

But come what may, no matter the amount of information adverts and negative press about such crass behaviour by those acting in a criminal manner......there will sadly, it seems, always be a few that risk their lives and others by their actions! :(
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I don't think there's much to 'speculate' - you said yourself 'acting in a criminal manner' - of course, we don't know for certain, but it's blatantly obvioous let's be honest here. This is the 4th incident [that we know of] across UK and Ireland - similar times, very similar scenario [bunch of teens in a car, it seems drunk/stoned, and car stolen] going the wrong way down a motorway. We already know it's a 'trend' - and I fear it's not the last incident of this type we will see
 
apparently this "driving the wrong way" thing is a viral tik tok s*** for these turds
 
Mr Bump said:
apparently this "driving the wrong way" thing is a viral tik tok s*** for these turds
Click to expand...

That's precisely what it is, they get drunk/high, either steal or 'borrow' a car, then record themselves going the wrong way down a busy road. I'm not sure if the numbers have anything to do with this deadly trend, but so far 4 incidents had 5 teens on board
 
Cagey75 said:
I don't think there's much to 'speculate' - you said yourself 'acting in a criminal manner' - of course, we don't know for certain, but it's blatantly obvioous let's be honest here. This is the 4th incident [that we know of] across UK and Ireland - similar times, very similar scenario [bunch of teens in a car, it seems drunk/stoned, and car stolen] going the wrong way down a motorway. We already know it's a 'trend' - and I fear it's not the last incident of this type we will see
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Granted.... .... .

Aspects of the need for investigative clarity are whether the police car was moving, what lane was it in and whether it had a stinger deployed plus the status of its emergency lighting, what was its designated role in stopping/apprehending the car (i.e. why was it potentially positioned in harms way).....etc

None of this diminishes the crass criminal actions of the other driver & his mates and them being the primary cause of loss of innocent parties lives :(

As for the increasing number of such situations, me thinks that the roads policing protocols, especially following this tragic loss of police lives, will be under (further) review.
 
In Ireland there's a call, by politicians to charge murder..assuming the driver lives..for deliberately driving in the wrong carriageway of a motorway etc... dual carriageway or one way system. It would be manslaughter not murder. Many MPs are lawyers. It seems, that in Ireland when police pursue a driver they are personally held responsible for anything that goes wrong. Who on earth thought that was a good idea ? Earlier this year, Devon & Cornwall Traffic officers were teaching the Garda pursuit skills.
 
Box Brownie said:
Granted.... .... .

Aspects of the need for investigative clarity are whether the police car was moving, what lane was it in and whether it had a stinger deployed plus the status of its emergency lighting, what was its designated role in stopping/apprehending the car (i.e. why was it potentially positioned in harms way).....etc

None of this diminishes the crass criminal actions of the other driver & his mates and them being the primary cause of loss of innocent parties lives :(

As for the increasing number of such situations, me thinks that the roads policing protocols, especially following this tragic loss of police lives, will be under (further) review.
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I was wondering about that. What a dilemma. Instead of one car travelling the wrong way on a motorway etc there would be two and involve speeds of over 70mph and you can go a long way doing that speed . I honestly don't have any suggestions to make on how they could deal with this new trend. I suppose one way to stop it would be for Tik Tok, or whatever other platform is used ,to have the footage immediately wiped. Couldn't AI be set up to recognise such footage ?
 
JohnC6 said:
I was wondering about that. What a dilemma. Instead of one car travelling the wrong way on a motorway etc there would be two
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In the case discussed the criminals IIRC (could have the opposite way round?) were travelling south on the north bound carriageway....the police car was properly on the northbound carriageway. They were not both travelling in the same direction, hence the reported head-on collision:(
JohnC6 said:
and involve speeds of over 70mph and you can go a long way doing that speed . I honestly don't have any suggestions to make on how they could deal with this new trend. I suppose one way to stop it would be for Tik Tok, or whatever other platform is used ,to have the footage immediately wiped. Couldn't AI be set up to recognise such footage ?
Click to expand...
 
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JohnC6 said:
In Ireland there's a call, by politicians to charge murder..assuming the driver lives..for deliberately driving in the wrong carriageway of a motorway etc... dual carriageway or one way system. It would be manslaughter not murder. Many MPs are lawyers. It seems, that in Ireland when police pursue a driver they are personally held responsible for anything that goes wrong. Who on earth thought that was a good idea ? Earlier this year, Devon & Cornwall Traffic officers were teaching the Garda pursuit skills.
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No, such a dangerous act should be attempted murder. Doing something that is likely to cause serious injury or death.

Come to that , I have never understood why attempted murder is less of a charge than murder. The intent was the same and just luck that it was not murder
 
cambsno said:
No, such a dangerous act should be attempted murder. Doing something that is likely to cause serious injury or death.

Come to that , I have never understood why attempted murder is less of a charge than murder. The intent was the same and just luck that it was not murder
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I doubt they do this with the intention of killing another motorist/passengers and likely themselves and/or their passengers. Murder requires means rea..ie intent. Manslaughter is carrying out an action in such a reckless manner that killing someone was a high possibility .There's the offence of causing death by reckless driving,too.

Re your last paragraph. Our law/sentencing is based on what actually happens so, even if the intent was there to commit murder it didn't happen. Murder carries a mandatory life sentence whilst attempted murder doesn't.
 
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If there was a meaningful punishment for causing death by reckless driving it would deter these morons and others who do similar
We don’t need new laws just deter them using the ones we already have
 
It doesn’t take away from what these heinous actions achieve, but I doubt there were any seatbelts used by the criminals.
 
LCPete said:
If there was a meaningful punishment for causing death by reckless driving it would deter these morons and others who do similar
We don’t need new laws just deter them using the ones we already have
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I think this goes above reckless and dangerous driving - those are going a bit too fast, overtaking when you shouldnt etc... totally different to 70+ on the wrong side of a road for that specific intent.

But then a lifetime ban would do nothing, people just ignore that. Which is why driving on the opposite side is a separate offence with a min of 30+ years
 
Whilst reading this my wife has shown me a picture taken by dashcam of an idiot/irresponsible heading down an up sliproad on a local dual carriageway just minutes to go, this seems to be becoming a daily occurrence, the stupid need to get a long ban and the others, if they survive jail time.
 
JohnC6 said:
In Ireland there's a call, by politicians to charge murder..assuming the driver lives..for deliberately driving in the wrong carriageway of a motorway etc... dual carriageway or one way system. It would be manslaughter not murder. Many MPs are lawyers. It seems, that in Ireland when police pursue a driver they are personally held responsible for anything that goes wrong. Who on earth thought that was a good idea ? Earlier this year, Devon & Cornwall Traffic officers were teaching the Garda pursuit skills.
Click to expand...
I think it should be murder as you will definitely kill someone, you just don’t know who. A bit like firing a gun indiscriminately into a crowd. You aren’t choosing a particular person but you’ll kill someone.
 
Box Brownie said:
As they said on the news.........folks should please not speculate.

One thing that was mentioned on the news was that the law breakers hit the police car on the correct side of the road in a head on collision.

Eventually we will hear what happened and how come the headon impact occured.

But come what may, no matter the amount of information adverts and negative press about such crass behaviour by those acting in a criminal manner......there will sadly, it seems, always be a few that risk their lives and others by their actions! :(
Click to expand...

They went past our house at 03:36 at speed but to be honest it's not the first time, it's long straight road but with turnoffs and twists at both ends so a great place to try and evade the police. I got a call from a local paper wanting cctv footage and they must have passed it to BBC and in the evening Sky news wanted the footage. Strangely none of them knew how to download it and had to just film it on my tablet with their phones. Residents have asked for the road to be divided or traffic calmed but the answer is always No. Outside our house it's a 20mph limit but cars go down a 50-60+ night and day and then there's the bikes and quads. This is just how so many people live now, crims bringing up crim kids targetting the locals or just committing antisocial acts. Usually it's consequence free fun for them.

No one I've spoken to has an ounce of sympathy for the 5 civilians killed but the eulogies have already started on social media. At church today prayers were said for the police and the others weren't even mentioned. Tells you something when even the Christians wont pray for you.
 
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