What broke Windows 10?

[Sangoma]

The start button, search box, notifications and then I found Cortana don't work

The only two things that have changed are WhatsApp and Chrome.

I discovered it this morning when WhatsApp wouldn't start

Spent ages trying lots of fixes from the web, had other things to do, then realised that it is all apps that don't work. All programmes do work. Fortunately I installed Affinity as programmes not apps, as I do whenever I have a choice

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

You did me a favour there, Steve.

I didn't realise that there's a difference between "Apps", running under the Universal Windows Platform, and "Programs", running directly under the Windows operating system. See: even us old dogs can learn new tricks!

 

[Sangoma]

You did me a favour there, Steve.

I didn't realise that there's a difference between "Apps", running under the Universal Windows Platform, and "Programs", running directly under the Windows operating system. See: even us old dogs can learn new tricks!

It is supposed to protect the system against users, but pretty useless when it fails.
It is actually a total curse, especially when you want to access a programme from another one

After spending long time trying to find why, I just reinstalled windows and the programmes, less than an hour and done.
We don't seem to have progressed as far as could be expected from the ZX81 and pulling the power plug out

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

We don't seem to have progressed as far as could be expected from the ZX81 and pulling the power plug out

For a long time I thought Windows had reached its zenith with Hewlett Packard's Omnibook series, especially the 425. When it comes to usability, portability and battery life, I'm not entirely sure it's got that much further on either ...

 

[Sangoma]

The problem was/is caused by a windows update!!!!

Everything was going great until I decided to update, and the same thing happened. Tried uninstalling the updates, but not all would uninstall, so now trying W11

This laptop is just over 2 years old, so not exactly ancient.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

The problem was/is caused by a windows update!!!!

Apple are just as bad.

As I've mentioned before, taking my wife's MacBook Pro 16 inch from Sonoma to Sequoia totally trashed the disk and derailed the firmware. The Apple Store wasn't helpful, quoting £600+ with no guarantee of success!
I finally managed to fix it by installing Catalina, after going round the houses a few times to reset the firmware.

 

[gman]

The problem was/is caused by a windows update!!!!

Everything was going great until I decided to update, and the same thing happened. Tried uninstalling the updates, but not all would uninstall, so now trying W11

This laptop is just over 2 years old, so not exactly ancient.

Good luck with Windows 11, I've had a hell of a time with it due to a recent update to 24H2. I was striving towards being the King of BSOD.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Oddly enough, upgrading my LG Gram from W10 to W11 went so smoothly I clean forgot I'd done it.

I suspect that LG got all their ducks in a row before the update went out. As this indicates, when updates go sour on PCs, everyone points at the other guy and shouts "it was him"...

Microsoft blames PC makers for broken Windows 11 update – but I think that’s a cop-out

Microsoft trying to shift the blame for a new broken Windows 11 update isn’t a good look

www.techradar.com

 

[Sangoma]

Oddly enough, upgrading my LG Gram from W10 to W11 went so smoothly I clean forgot I'd done it.

I suspect that LG got all their ducks in a row before the update went out. As this indicates, when updates go sour on PCs, everyone points at the other guy and shouts "it was him"...

Microsoft blames PC makers for broken Windows 11 update – but I think that’s a cop-out

Microsoft trying to shift the blame for a new broken Windows 11 update isn’t a good look

www.techradar.com

I think there is more to it.

I installed W11 and it worked fine, until I removed the account that was signed into M$

I first created another admin account locally, then removed the account that I installed with (there is no option to install without internet, even if you turn off your router it will detect another one withing range). The result is exactly the same as it was on W10
Have done this before, and the machines have been working fine.

As the recent updated to W10 caused the problem, and W11 had to update during install, it would appear that the purpose is to force people to be signed on with an M$ accunt.

However, the apps you need to access to add another account, or to sign on to M$ are not available now!!!!

I don't know if this just affects the machine I am trying it on, or all makes.

 

[Sangoma]

Back on W10, with an M$ account looged in.
Updates busy running, will see if it still works when they have finished.
All I have done is to install Firefox!

 

[Sangoma]

Back on W10, with an M$ account looged in.
Updates busy running, will see if it still works when they have finished.
All I have done is to install Firefox!

It has been running and for a few hours now, all software re-installed and as it should be.

No different to the time before except it is now logged in to M$

From what I have seen here, it appears one of the updates cripples the machine unless it is looged in to M$, but that prevents you from adding an account to do that

 

[Box Brownie]

I think there is more to it.

I installed W11 and it worked fine, until I removed the account that was signed into M$

I first created another admin account locally, then removed the account that I installed with (there is no option to install without internet, even if you turn off your router it will detect another one withing range). The result is exactly the same as it was on W10
Have done this before, and the machines have been working fine.

As the recent updated to W10 caused the problem, and W11 had to update during install, it would appear that the purpose is to force people to be signed on with an M$ accunt.

However, the apps you need to access to add another account, or to sign on to M$ are not available now!!!!

I don't know if this just affects the machine I am trying it on, or all makes.

Back on W10, with an M$ account looged in.
Updates busy running, will see if it still works when they have finished.
All I have done is to install Firefox!

It has been running and for a few hours now, all software re-installed and as it should be.

No different to the time before except it is now logged in to M$

From what I have seen here, it appears one of the updates cripples the machine unless it is looged in to M$, but that prevents you from adding an account to do that

Interesting.

When I built my most recent W10 system last year I found IIRC I had to register an MS account to finish the set up but then I set up the offline account and have not used the online account since. NB again IIRC it was during the MS logged access that I installed the RAW file extension. Oh, I keep this box updated as appropriate.

Fast forward to earlier this year I bought a refurbished Dell ultrabook laptop with W11 Pro and IIRC I had to go through the same process. I think this one is on 23H2 but cannot recall what the self build is on........ likely the last/latest W10 offering?

In both cases all seems to be well and I don't think I removed the MS account login ones.

PS re apps vs exe's! I have Affinity Photo etc and hated the sandboxed installs and I was one of those who complained in the community forum. I now only use the exe installs.

 

[Sangoma]

Well, that didn't last long, came back after a couple of hours and the same problem.

Tried to restore to a set point, and that failed completely now just BSOD

 

[gman]

Well, that didn't last long, came back after a couple of hours and the same problem.

Tried to restore to a set point, and that failed completely now just BSOD

Welcome to my world. Come join me in condemning Microsoft to a slow and agonising death.

Windows 10 is back on. Time will tell if it'll be ok. My fans are going mental until I get the fan software installed again! lol

 

[Sangoma]

What I have noticed is that the update that causes it brings up a screen keyboard on the logon screen, so if anyone knows which that update is it would be nice to now

 

[gman]

I've blocked all updates. This is now my current OS build and so far I've restarted many times, I'm not doing the stupid pin thing and sticking to a password and will keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Sangoma]

I have also stopped all updates for as long as it was possible
The last install I did with no internet to make it quick, and have only installed the bare basics I need until my new laptop arrives middle of next week

M$ have the dubious honour of creating a doorstop out of a perfectly good fully functioning machine



Looks the same as yours

 

[Box Brownie]

What I have noticed is that the update that causes it brings up a screen keyboard on the logon screen, so if anyone knows which that update is it would be nice to now

I have a vague memory of one update that seemed to be targeted at tablets not desktop or laptops.

Though I think that was a while back???

 

[Sangoma]

I have a vague memory of one update that seemed to be targeted at tablets not desktop or laptops.

Though I think that was a while back???

I don't know how that could be sent to PCs though, but after this I would not be surprised.

At work I used to deploy updates from the server, but about two weeks after they came out, then to half the machine first and the other half a week later.
Learnt my lesson after no-one could print stuff they needed for lessons. (did get it done in time though, by getting them to bring me the stuff on memory sticks and printed it from the server)

At home I used to download bu not install the updates, but that isn't an option any more.

Very poor show.

 

[Box Brownie]

I don't know how that could be sent to PCs though, but after this I would not be surprised.

At work I used to deploy updates from the server, but about two weeks after they came out, then to half the machine first and the other half a week later.
Learnt my lesson after no-one could print stuff they needed for lessons. (did get it done in time though, by getting them to bring me the stuff on memory sticks and printed it from the server)

At home I used to download bu not install the updates, but that isn't an option any more.

I thought the MS catalogue was still available to download from as needed? In the past I certainly recall doing so. NB IIRC this was when I used W7 and my first older W10 build.

Very poor show.

 

[gman]

You've got to be kidding me.

I'm getting a sneaky feeling I may have a bad memory stick, or two.

 

[Box Brownie]

All these reports are perhaps a a timely reminder for me to update my "recovery USB" which I first created after my build last year. IIRC the recommendation was to update the recovery USB every so often

 

[gman]

Back to the drawing board.

 

[Sangoma]

Back to the drawing board.

View attachment 440501

Have you got a spare hard drive you could try, even a small one?
Is it a desk top or laptop?


Edit. I see from you other thread you have a new drive, so just is it a desktop or laptop?

 

[gman]

Have you got a spare hard drive you could try, even a small one?
Is it a desk top or laptop?


Edit. I see from you other thread you have a new drive, so just is it a desktop or laptop?

It's a desktop, built it myself and it has been running sweet until that Win 11 update. The latest BSOD just there with the new Win 10 build has only happened once and since it's been ok. It may have just been a signature issue, but I've got a fix on standby in case it happens again.

I'm holding off installing all my other programs until I know this is stable.

 

[Sangoma]

It's a desktop, built it myself and it has been running sweet until that Win 11 update. The latest BSOD just there with the new Win 10 build has only happened once and since it's been ok. It may have just been a signature issue, but I've got a fix on standby in case it happens again.

I'm holding off installing all my other programs until I know this is stable.

OK, you may well have done this, but I would remove the graphics card and use the on board graphics for testing (assuming it has) or put back a smaller card, pull the cables off any other disc drives if there are any, make sure nothing except mouse and keyboard is plugged in to the USB ports. While it is open, vacuum the memory slots and wiggle them on the way in. Remove and replace the main plugs on the mother board.
If you have a spare PSU you could lay it on the table next to the box and connect it

Two reasons for removing things, one to check for faulty parts and second to make sure the power supply is not being pulled down.

There are two things that are needed on the PSU, correct voltage and enough current, but often forgotten is quality. They quite often have a lot of noise on the supply lines, so much so that many digital meters will not give a steady or accurate reading, and that noise can corrupt signals on the board/memory etc.

Make the suggestions as yours does not seem to follow any pattern, which could point to power problems.

 

[gman]

OK, you may well have done this, but I would remove the graphics card and use the on board graphics for testing (assuming it has) or put back a smaller card, pull the cables off any other disc drives if there are any, make sure nothing except mouse and keyboard is plugged in to the USB ports. While it is open, vacuum the memory slots and wiggle them on the way in. Remove and replace the main plugs on the mother board.
If you have a spare PSU you could lay it on the table next to the box and connect it

Two reasons for removing things, one to check for faulty parts and second to make sure the power supply is not being pulled down.

There are two things that are needed on the PSU, correct voltage and enough current, but often forgotten is quality. They quite often have a lot of noise on the supply lines, so much so that many digital meters will not give a steady or accurate reading, and that noise can corrupt signals on the board/memory etc.

Make the suggestions as yours does not seem to follow any pattern, which could point to power problems.

Cheers. Can't do onboard as it's a 5600X. Most of that should be fine. It's a good quality PSU, stable voltages (MSI Centre monitors it all), temps are great etc, but if I get the BSOD's again I'll probably start a process of elimination. RAM is usually the first thing I'll check, but the tests came back fine. Also Heaven stress testing doesn't crash the computer, so I'm fairly confident now that it's not hardware, but I'll not rule it out completely.

How are you getting on with yours?

 

[Sangoma]

Cheers. Can't do onboard as it's a 5600X. Most of that should be fine. It's a good quality PSU, stable voltages (MSI Centre monitors it all), temps are great etc, but if I get the BSOD's again I'll probably start a process of elimination. RAM is usually the first thing I'll check, but the tests came back fine. Also Heaven stress testing doesn't crash the computer, so I'm fairly confident now that it's not hardware, but I'll not rule it out completely.

How are you getting on with yours?

Been fine since the last rebuild yesterday, updates are paused, and I have restarted several times to see

 

[Sangoma]

You say it blue screened once and is now OK, have you checked the event viewer to see why that happened?

 

[gman]

You say it blue screened once and is now OK, have you checked the event viewer to see why that happened?

Yeah, been constantly checking it but can't remember what it was that time. Previously with the Win 11 OS it was a variety of errors! lol

 

[Suvv]

All these reports are perhaps a a timely reminder for me to update my "recovery USB" which I first created after my build last year. IIRC the recommendation was to update the recovery USB every so often

I recently had to revert my old W10 laptop back to W7 using the recovery partition. I managed to get Service Pack 1 installed but no other updates.
I bought a new W11 laptop and just used the old one when I went on holiday for photo storage and route planning.
Your post reminded me that I had made a recovery USB sometime ago. After going through all my junk I found it, dated 2018!
The old laptop is now back on W10, still very slow but at least it is updating
Thank you

 

[gman]

I got another BSOD last night, it showed tcpip.sys as failed. Restarted fine though. Starting to wonder if this is all driver related, perhaps time to approach MSI, although I doubt they will be much good. All my drivers are bang up to date, but perhaps that could be part of the problem. Losing interest in it and more prepared to plod on in the hope that BSOD will be a rarity.

 

[Sangoma]

Have you tried removing the network card (wireless ???) and then reinstalling allowing windows to find the driver it prefers?

And reset and flush all the network from the cmd prompt

netsh int tcp set heuristics disabled
netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled
netsh int tcp set global rss=enabled
netsh winsock reset
netsh int ip reset
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew
ipconfig /flushdns

 

[gman]

Have you tried removing the network card (wireless ???) and then reinstalling allowing windows to find the driver it prefers?

And reset and flush all the network from the cmd prompt

netsh int tcp set heuristics disabled
netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled
netsh int tcp set global rss=enabled
netsh winsock reset
netsh int ip reset
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew
ipconfig /flushdns

That's exactly the commands I did after it happened and so far so good. I haven't removed the network card as it's built in to the MB. The wireless is now disabled.

My wife jumped on and sent me a photo showing a new message today! lol Dying here! haha It was about a digital signature against, but didn't specify the file (great eh?). I might look at what drivers the MSI Control centre installed after Windows was installed and roll some of them back. I've had well over a decade of fairly hassle free computing and now all of this happens at once! lol

 

[Sangoma]

That's exactly the commands I did after it happened and so far so good. I haven't removed the network card as it's built in to the MB. The wireless is now disabled.

My wife jumped on and sent me a photo showing a new message today! lol Dying here! haha It was about a digital signature against, but didn't specify the file (great eh?). I might look at what drivers the MSI Control centre installed after Windows was installed and roll some of them back. I've had well over a decade of fairly hassle free computing and now all of this happens at once! lol

Yes, that is quite a common string of commands

I have had many years of windows without this level of problem as well, bit worrying for the future.

Sorry, didn't put my suggestion very well, I meant to say remove the network card drivers, and let windows choose which ones to install.

I uninstalled windows games and xbox this morning, now I have continuous system errors, not affecting it running, but does just show that windows has its issues

 

[gman]

Ah the driver, that makes more sense. I'm working through my device manager now and manually going through them all. Checking they are digitally signed but also going to use only Microsoft ones where available as presumably they will be the most compatible. My network card for example, they should all be fine being signed, but may as well stick to MS. Cheers.

That's strange you are now having issues, although I believe it's questionable how good many programs are at removing all their traces when being uninstalled, leaving a messy registry.



Happy days, hopefully...

 

[Box Brownie]

Hi guys

I wonder if the source of your recent issue is this

Windows update an unusual update awaiting install?

Hi all I just checked the Windows updates and see what was last updated etc and had this one showing as downloaded and 'Waiting to install" Realtek Semiconductor Corp. - Net - 1030.44.1014.2024 There is no history of previous Realtek updates and I wondered if anyone else had seen it? And if...

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Edit 2 ~ with no way to reject what surely is an optional update......IIRC and AFAIK unlike a Windows system update this should not 'auto install' after a period of time ~ I hope
Off to make a Restore Point now....!


Edit ~ found this about issues following installing it

https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsHelp/comments/1fnna7m/optional_update_rollback_impossible_system

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsHelp/comments/1fnna7m/optional_update_rollback_impossible_system/?rdt=39539

 

[Sangoma]

Ah the driver, that makes more sense. I'm working through my device manager now and manually going through them all. Checking they are digitally signed but also going to use only Microsoft ones where available as presumably they will be the most compatible. My network card for example, they should all be fine being signed, but may as well stick to MS. Cheers.

That's strange you are now having issues, although I believe it's questionable how good many programs are at removing all their traces when being uninstalled, leaving a messy registry.

View attachment 440610

Happy days, hopefully...

View attachment 440611

That's interesting as Realtek NICs were known to give problems before. Don't remember details.

It would be worth trying to remove them and their files and see if windows has a driver if the problem continues.

It would seem all the errors I am getting are M$ programmes trying to communicate with M$, like outlook that I took out, but the machine is still working

The new one is supposed to arrive today, so once that is setup and working as it should, I will enable updates on this one and see if it fails again.

 

[Sangoma]

Spoke too soon, haven't changed anything on the machine, but back to the original problem.
The new media player wouldn't open, so tried the search and start button, now no apps run, not calculator or notifications, or any app.

Ran the system file checker etc, no help.

Got it running updates now, go nothing to lose.

The machine is only about 30 months old, came with W10 (and has the logo sticker, so was OEM)

 

[gman]

Hi guys

I wonder if the source of your recent issue is this

Windows update an unusual update awaiting install?

Hi all I just checked the Windows updates and see what was last updated etc and had this one showing as downloaded and 'Waiting to install" Realtek Semiconductor Corp. - Net - 1030.44.1014.2024 There is no history of previous Realtek updates and I wondered if anyone else had seen it? And if...

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Edit 2 ~ with no way to reject what surely is an optional update......IIRC and AFAIK unlike a Windows system update this should not 'auto install' after a period of time ~ I hope
Off to make a Restore Point now....!
View attachment 440616

Edit ~ found this about issues following installing it

https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsHelp/comments/1fnna7m/optional_update_rollback_impossible_system

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsHelp/comments/1fnna7m/optional_update_rollback_impossible_system/?rdt=39539

I'm not sure, but since making sure all my drivers are digitally signed and my network card are all MS drivers things seem to have been ok. Long may this continue! lol