What would you do? Drunk Guest & Kit!

glaw89

glaw89

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Hi Guys,

I'm in a bit of a mess and still super annoyed so ignore any mistakes!
I was at a wedding reception this evening with my photo wall type photo booth.
As anybody was entering the booth I said to them be careful of the leg and don't lean on it as it will tipple forwards (pointing to the leg too!).

Anyway the first 20+ users of the booth grasped this however, one lady didn't and lent on the booth sending it flying towards me knocking the camera still mounted to the tripod to the ceramic floor.

The casing is caput .. and it's probably worth not much now since she has dented and scratched it too. She didn't even say sorry! Infact, neither the bride or groom had the decency to come and apologise on behalf of their drunk guest either. Think this bothered me more.

The venue staff were more the helpful and apologised to me and also said they can vouch for me telling guests to be careful of the leg and not to lean on it. They also said I should bill the bride and groom as their guest is their responsibility.

I am insured and I am guessing an incident like this would be covered. What would you do? Persue the B&G or just go direct to the insurers?

Thanks In Advance x
 
Is this not exactly what you have insurance for?

Why on earth would you even think of pursuing the happy couple who are your customers?


Heather
 
It never crossed my mind until the venue manager said it to me. I even said to the best man, that's why I have insurance and I guess accidents happen ..

But ..

Since he said that to me I wondered if it was the done thing? I've never had a problem like this before and it will be my first claim so was just unsure.
 
Insurers.

Have you got good PLI too? I'd be wary of any kit used in an environment full of drunks which could easily be knocked over by one of the said drunks. People are only too keen to get the ambulance chasers involved and it would be fairly straightforward for someone to commence an action against you if they got hit by a falling camera rig.
 
Insurance. It will be quicker, easier and is the right thing to do.

You took the risk of taking your stuff to a place where it could get damaged, you paid for insurance to cover this risk. So use it.

As a side note - if you do go after the bride and groom, good luck in small claims court. As you will need it. Without being harsh "Their friends broke my stuff by accident, when I was working earning money... please make them pay for their friend".
 
I have PLI, PI and Kit Cover ..

She didn't get hurt, venue staff & plenty of guests seen exactly what happened and even her son was going crazy at her! Don't think she would put a claim in against me.
 
supersammy said:
As a side note - if you do go after the bride and groom, good luck in small claims court. As you will need it. Without being harsh "Their friends broke my stuff by accident, when I was working earning money... please make them pay for their friend".
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This isn't what I want to do. As I said before I didn't even think of going after them as it isn't their fault one of their guests was so incredibly drunk that she lost her hearing. It was just what and how the venue manager said it that made me question what to do.

I will phone my insurers tomorrow and see what they say. Thanks Guys!
 
glaw89 said:
This isn't what I want to do. As I said before I didn't even think of going after them as it isn't their fault one of their guests was so incredibly drunk that she lost her hearing. It was just what and how the venue manager said it that made me question what to do.

I will phone my insurers tomorrow and see what they say. Thanks Guys!
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Your insurers will sort you out. Sorry if that was a bit strong, but it's really not the fault of the bride and groom. It's not even really the fault of the drunk person who knocked it over. These things happen, which is why you have insurance :).
 
I'm trying to understand this leg, it is of concern to me..as a person that away from my photography interests runs an events company where the vast majority of my customers are drunk one of the key things that can be relied upon is a drunk to do exactly what you wouldn't want them to do, or fall on something that is a risk, now clearly you've identified this leg as a risk as you'd been informing people not to do something..as this is the case I would have though you'd have attempted to put something in place to remove that risk?

I would suggest that you make a claim on your insurance for the damage incurred and then I would change your set up for the future to ensure this incident cannot be repeated as I'd suggest your insurer my not look favourably on a second claim ;) you may even have to show on this occasion that you attempted to alleviate risk...after all that is was a risk assessment is for
 
The leg is clearly displayed .. and I stood right in front of each and every guest and told them to be careful not to trip on it. I pointed to it (i was standing above it) and they all looked down and noted it. I couldn't really do much more. There was enough room to completely avoid it but as usual most guests take a shortcut over it despite me advising them to walk round.

Not looking forward to having to put a claim in :(
 
Claim on the insurance and move on. And say a little prayer that the woman doesn't find some no-win-no-fee leech to try & claim from your insurance.

I'm sure one of those leeches could find some reason to claim it's all your fault that their client is now suffering from post traumatic stress, whiplash and depression.
 
gadgeteer said:
Claim on the insurance and move on. And say a little prayer that the woman doesn't find some no-win-no-fee leech to try & claim from your insurance.

I'm sure one of those leeches could find some reason to claim it's all your fault that their client is now suffering from post traumatic stress, whiplash and depression.
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:'( don't scare me! I hope she finds the whole situation embarrassing enough without putting a claim in for all that. I forget people are out for whatever they can get these days rather then being decent.
 
glaw89 said:
The leg is clearly displayed .. and I stood right in front of each and every guest and told them to be careful not to trip on it. I pointed to it (i was standing above it) and they all looked down and noted it. I couldn't really do much more. There was enough room to completely avoid it but as usual most guests take a shortcut over it despite me advising them to walk round.

Not looking forward to having to put a claim in :(
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I'm struggling to envision the leg if I'm honest possibly because I don't really have an interest more than passing in the studio/booth side of photography, but I would suggest looking at solutions to mitigate future risk be that altering your set up/equipment or the way in which it is set up :thumbs:
 
glaw89 said:
:'( don't scare me! I hope she finds the whole situation embarrassing enough without putting a claim in for all that. I forget people are out for whatever they can get these days rather then being decent.
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People say these things because they have read it in the Daily Mail, or have heard a horror story which has been twisted to the point of becoming fiction.

Most people who want to make a quick buck like this, pick on big companies, as they are easier.

Either way - if you pointed it out, then you have mitigated the risk. A risk assessment does not have to be written down, although it is good practise to do so. You have witnesses who can say you have pointed out the risk. I would not worry.

Either way - you have insurance, so it would not hurt you anyway. You pay the premium so you don't have to worry about this. It doesn't mean you can fail in your duty of care, but it does mean that as long as you act reasonably you lose nothing (other than some time filling in a statement and giving the insurance company the information).

Anyway - I sound like a right laugh on the ****, so will shut up about this boring stuff now. Don't worry, move on and just try and work out a way so it won't happen again.
 
Well.. I am probably going to get moaned at for this.. But what the heck...

From the information you have given us and no more.. i think your lucky the guest wasnt injured and was drunk as theres more chance of them suing you than you of them.. your setup is dodgy if you have to stand there and point out to every person that its unsafe (yes thats what your doing) You shouldnt have anyhting that anyone might trip over or whatever..

Just my opinion which obviously goes against the flow :)
 
You've got your answer re insurance, now for the grown up bit. <Uncle Phil mode>

Make sure that it can't happen again, safety that relies on you pointing out to every guest that something is dangerous isn't a good enough plan.

If you have only one 'safe route' make sure people use it, not with advice and smiles, but by blocking any alternative.

Guests should never be required to be smart to avoid mishaps! She was drunk but how would you deal with deaf? Partially sighted? Motor neurone disease, scumbag looking for something to trip over for insurance money? They're all out there and you need to make sure your work practices protect you and them. </Uncle Phil mode>
 
KIPAX said:
Well.. I am probably going to get moaned at for this.. But what the heck...

From the information you have given us and no more.. i think your lucky the guest wasnt injured and was drunk as theres more chance of them suing you than you of them.. your setup is dodgy if you have to stand there and point out to every person that its unsafe (yes thats what your doing) You shouldnt have anyhting that anyone might trip over or whatever..

Just my opinion which obviously goes against the flow :)
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Respectfully - no business can possibly operate in this manner. Things that can cause harm if idiots fall over them are part of life.
 
supersammy said:
Respectfully - no business can possibly operate in this manner. Things that can cause harm if idiots fall over them are part of life.
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True.. such as a tripod... but a setup where the photogrpaher has to stand there telling everyone that uses his setup not to stand on somehting or it might fall over and erk.... that doesnt sound right.. does it? As I say i can only go off whats been described... doesnt sound good..
 
gadgeteer said:
Claim on the insurance and move on. And say a little prayer that the woman doesn't find some no-win-no-fee leech to try & claim from your insurance. I'm sure one of those leeches could find some reason to claim it's all your fault that their client is now suffering from post traumatic stress, whiplash and depression.
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This is the problem now, there are too many who do this. I don't work in photography but in the business I'm in we have had people try to claim for injuries they sustained when breaking into our sites. Even though you have told everyone about it your only protection to the hazard is human, unfortunately in this case with drunk people that does always work. Risk assessments look at the likely hood versus severity, in this case tripping on the leg with drunk people around seems quite likely or nearly certain. The severity could be minor injuries or worse, thankfully your camera took the brunt of it this time and not a person. I would definitely look at a way to stop anyone tripping on this leg, even if it's a barrier or a box over it. Maybe use the space to place a stand over the leg and a box of props the guest can use in the photo booth, win win outcome for both you and your guests.
 
KIPAX said:
True.. such as a tripod... but a setup where the photogrpaher has to stand there telling everyone that uses his setup not to stand on somehting or it might fall over and erk.... that doesnt sound right.. does it? As I say i can only go off whats been described... doesnt sound good..
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I sort of get what you are saying - but I am assuming the photographer was saying it to protect her equipment. Pavement edges are just as dangerous if a drunk person doesn't spot them and falls over, they are even the same colour as the rest of the pavement. However they were designed to be practical before the country became terrified of risk.
 
supersammy said:
Respectfully - no business can possibly operate in this manner. Things that can cause harm if idiots fall over them are part of life.
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Every business has to operate like that...even more so when they deal with intoxicated individuals or groups...as I alluded to above I work in the entertainments industry specifically mobile discos...whenever we set up be it for background music with a pre planned mix or a full mobile nightclub for 1000+ people besides standard default risk assessment that are standard items for each and every jobs we will do a walk round risk assessment to make sure no cable is left showing in a position if could be an issue, that no stand or stack is miss balanced etc to make sure that we do not put our customers at risk and our company/insurance at risk
 
Supersammy I bet you wouldn't come out with a statement like that to a HSE inspector.

It is all about due care, the OP has admitted the leg could be a problem and her remedy is to inform people there is a problem, so my question is where is her risk assessment for it?
 
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Tigger.ufo said:
Is this not exactly what you have insurance for?

Why on earth would you even think of pursuing the happy couple who are your customers?


Heather
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Agree, I cannot believe you would even think of such an action... you would quickly build a bad reputation if you did! How on earth can the B&G be responsible for this?

Accidents happen, thats why we have insurance.
 
munch said:
Supersammy I bet you wouldn't come out with a statement like that to a HSE inspector.

It is all about due care, the OP has admitted the leg could be a problem and her remedy is to inform people there is a problem, so my question is where is her risk assessment for it?
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No I wouldn't. I'd make sure my paperwork was in order, and then say the right things to appease him/her. In the same way I would to any official who's job it was to enforce any sort of rubbish.

But that doesn't mean I won't say what I really think on the internet or in the pub. I can play the game. But anyone who is falling over stuff needs to learn to use their eyes and their common sense.

When I was at school, at college or at uni, I had loads of crappy jobs. All of them put me in much much more danger than a flimsy stand. The big companies made me sit and sign forms saying I have been trained how to use equipment, some even made me answer a test to prove it (whilst they told me the answers). The only thing HSE busy bodies do, is keep people in work and cost companies and government huge amounts of money.
 
munch said:
Supersammy I bet you wouldn't come out with a statement like that to a HSE inspector. It is all about due care, the OP has admitted the leg could be a problem and her remedy is to inform people there is a problem, so my question is where is her risk assessment for it?
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There is plenty of info on the HSE website.

http://www.hsdirect.co.uk/free-info/risk-assessment.html

Have a read, for the situation you are talking about the likelihood is pretty much certain with drunk people and severity could be quite a high severity if the person knocks their head on a hard floor like here. As your only control is the fifth point of the hierarchy of risk with eliminate, substitute and physical controls all not used it doesn't look good without a proper risk assessment. Definitely cover yourself in this situation and ensure you have thought of everything 'reasonable foreseeable'. I would either barrier the leg off, cover it and use a different photo booth stand that doesn't have the problem. It maybe a good idea to bring this point up with the manufacturer of the stand too as they have a responsibility to supply equipment that is not a hazard. Thankfully the camera took the brunt of this and not a person. Your insurance will hopefully cover it but use it as a learning experience.
 
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supersammy said:
No I wouldn't. I'd make sure my paperwork was in order, and then say the right things to appease him/her. In the same way I would to any official who's job it was to enforce any sort of rubbish.

But that doesn't mean I won't say what I really think on the internet or in the pub. I can play the game. But anyone who is falling over stuff needs to learn to use their eyes and their common sense.

When I was at school, at college or at uni, I had loads of crappy jobs. All of them put me in much much more danger than a flimsy stand. The big companies made me sit and sign forms saying I have been trained how to use equipment, some even made me answer a test to prove it (whilst they told me the answers). The only thing HSE busy bodies do, is keep people in work and cost companies and government huge amounts of money.
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If you wouldn't say it to a HSE official you really shouldn't be bringing the kind of bravado you'd have down the pub into this thread the OP really needs sensible advise on a) dealing with the current issue and b) how to best avoid the issue in the future :thumbs: you do the OP a disservice if you bring bravado into the situation :(
 
MWHCVT said:
If you wouldn't say it to a HSE official you really shouldn't be bringing the kind of bravado you'd have down the pub into this thread the OP really needs sensible advise on a) dealing with the current issue and b) how to best avoid the issue in the future :thumbs: you do the OP a disservice if you bring bravado into the situation :(
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Nothing more to add here - I've not given any bravado, but won't argue and spoil the OP's thread.

Hope it all gets sorted OP.
 
supersammy said:
No I wouldn't. I'd make sure my paperwork was in order, and then say the right things to appease him/her. In the same way I would to any official who's job it was to enforce any sort of rubbish.

But that doesn't mean I won't say what I really think on the internet or in the pub. I can play the game. But anyone who is falling over stuff needs to learn to use their eyes and their common sense.

When I was at school, at college or at uni, I had loads of crappy jobs. All of them put me in much much more danger than a flimsy stand. The big companies made me sit and sign forms saying I have been trained how to use equipment, some even made me answer a test to prove it (whilst they told me the answers). The only thing HSE busy bodies do, is keep people in work and cost companies and government huge amounts of money.
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Giving the OP the good advice she needs, instead of offering your bravado opinion isn't really your strong point is it? Being a keyboard warrior is easy until somebody in officialdom works out who you are and takes action on what you have said. Always worth remembering, the internet is never as anon as many seem to think... :|
 
Yv said:
Giving the OP the good advice she needs, instead of offering your bravado opinion isn't really your strong point is it? Being a keyboard warrior is easy until somebody in officialdom works out who you are and takes action on what you have said. Always worth remembering, the internet is never as anon as many seem to think... :|
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OK - if you looked further back into the thread you would see I did just that. I told the OP to contact her insurers as did almost everyone else. It was not until people started claiming she should start to prepare to be sued, and she said she was worried that I offered an alternative opinion. I also stated that the best thing to do, was to work out how to make sure it didn't happen again.

I'm sorry if you think that me giving some real life examples of H&S implementation in large multinational companies, and how they deal with it is bravado.

If saying that I'd tow the party line, and keep my mouth shut in front of anyone who has the power to cause me untold grief, is also a sign of bravado then I am proud to say that it's bravado I share with many many hugely successful entrepreneurs, who in their writing and speeches explain that the current H&S policy is making running a business conforming to all these rules impossible, uneconomical and most importantly no more safe than when common sense was king.

I'm not out to argue, but merely defending myself from what seems like nothing more than a group mentality of if we don't agree with what you are saying we shall try and undermine, and denigrate you.
 
Will the insurance company pay out as you had the camera on something that was dodgy or would it be best not to tell them
 
I didn't anticipate this turning into a debate .. I was merely asking for advice.

Simon: If you read my above comments you will see that the thought didn't even cross my mind until the venue manager convinced me it was the done thing. I just wanted to check with others before I went ahead with anything. Contacting my insurers was always going to be my first port of call not hunting down the bride and groom for money!!

The leg may have been a problem, however the lady that caused this damage didn't trip on the leg .. she lent/pushed so hard on the wall that it fell forward and it would have taken some force to do so. I understand that accidents happen and drunk people are less aware of hazards and from tonight on-wards I have decided not to use this particular set up again.

I will call the insurers in the morning and thank-you all for your advice & comments!
 
supersammy said:
The only thing HSE busy bodies do, is keep people in work and cost companies and government huge amounts of money.
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Actually they don't. They're function is to ensure that Safety at Work policies are properly conceived, understood and executed, thereby saving companies thousands of pounds in insurance premiums and preempting claims.

Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of idiotic jobsworths, but H&S is an essential part of the modern workplace. Done correctly it benefits both staff and employers/ organisers and members of the public. Done badl, of course, its farcical.



glaw89 said:
I didn't anticipate this turning into a debate .. I was merely asking for advice.
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Next time, carry out a proper risk assessment and mitigate any potential hazards properly! :)
 
Yv said:
Giving the OP the good advice she needs, instead of offering your bravado opinion isn't really your strong point is it? Being a keyboard warrior is easy until somebody in officialdom works out who you are and takes action on what you have said. Always worth remembering, the internet is never as anon as many seem to think... :|
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Sorry, I don't get this? I can't see what's been said wrong?
I have been in buiness before and the red tape/ rig ma roll/BS etc from HSE et al is a bleedin' nuisance for any entreprener/buisness owner.
Sure it's there to ensure everone's safety but they make too much paperwork.

When you work for big companies they find ways of passing the buck on to you!
 
Apologies to the OP, but as with many threads they can head in a different direction...

The big companies made me sit and sign forms saying I have been trained how to use equipment, some even made me answer a test to prove it (whilst they told me the answers).
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This is very true and not only with big companies. I use to have train staff in this manner to keep the HSE/Food Safety Team et al happy!

It's a mad mad world!!

OK back on Topic...
 
I've done an awful lot of risk assessments and they make you both laugh and cry :D :'( as you have to cater for the inept, stupid and malicious.

My favourite was always "Do not hose down electrical equipment." :D although "Do not insert body parts" was good too as stating "Do not insert fingers" proved too... limited :D
 
supersammy said:
Insurance. It will be quicker, easier and is the right thing to do.
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Exactly. If the insurance company thinks anyone else should be pursued, they will do it.

DemiLion said:
Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of idiotic jobsworths, but H&S is an essential part of the modern workplace.
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I agree. Look at this: http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/

HSE is blamed for all sorts of nonsense which is really due to inept management.


Steve.
 
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The OP was concerned & posted on here as many have done. Her first comment was that she was "in a bit of a mess" so she obviously is worried about putting in an insurance claim & also reiterated a comment made to her about persuing the B&G.

In the light of day I am sure that she sees sense in persuing the insurance route so why not cut her some slack.

Mention wedding & the baloon goes up!!!
 
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