What's your favourite 400 ISO black and white sheet film?

ChrisR

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I'm going to have to but my first packet of sheet film soon. I was going to buy Foma 400 (and still might) on the simple grounds that you can get a pack of 50 for around the price of a pack of 25 from Ilford. However, @steveo_mcg commented about the "comedy reciprocity failure" and also softness and tendency to scratching, both of which seem backed up by other research.

Why ISO 400? Shooting on a tripod the speed should be less important, but I suppose I'm worried about reciprocity failure, and an extra couple of stops seems like a good idea. And presumably grain disappears as a really serious issue at sheet film sizes. But maybe I'm wrong?

I haven't found a direct comparison for sheet film, although we do have the Petapixel article from a year or so ago (https://petapixel.com/2017/08/26/ultimate-guide-every-bw-iso-400-35mm-film-market/ ) though that is for 135 film. I guess it lists several films that aren't made as sheet film. There's also the issue that sheet film (AFAIK) is made on polyester backing while most 135 is on triacetate. I've no idea what difference that makes to shooting, though presumably it makes a difference to how the film dries and scans. However, the article referenced is interesting in its qualitative discussions about different films.

I haven't found a comprehensive UK supplier that rivals Macodirect and fotoimpex when it comes to sheet film. Although the latter seems to have better prices and slightly lower postage, it seems slightly less comprehensive, so I used Macodirect here. I include ISO 320 as well as 400 films, since Tri-X (my favourite in 135) appears to be 320 in sheet film sizes. So these are the per-sheet prices in Euros of the various 4x5 sheet films they offer, based on the smallest quantity offered (presumably cheaper per sheet in larger quantities):

Bergger Panchro 400 €1.64
Foma Retropan 320 €0.94
Foma 400 €1.16
Ilford HP5 €2.00
Kodak TMax 400 €3.69
Kodak Tri-X 320 €3.25
Rollei Infra-red 400 €1.58
Rollei RPX 400 €1.32

Fomapan 400 reduces to about €0.80 per frame if bought in 50s rather than 25s. It looks superficially attractive therefore, apart from the issues mentioned above. But with processing costs ranging from £3.20 per frame upwards (and from £6 for process and scan), the price advantage rather fades away. I'm therefore rather drawn towards HP5+ , which I'm sure @thedarkshed would advise me towards.

So, what's your favourite black and white ISO 320/400 sheet film?
 
I don't have a favourite because I don't use fast film. I think the last fast film I used was HP3 in the 1960s.

On grain: (and take this with a grain of salt - it's approximate) film speed varies with grain volume and perceived graininess with area. Hence you double the visible grain size going from 50ASA to 400ASA. That might put the extra grain in perspective.

On film speed: you can get blurred photographs from subject movement as well as camera movement, so don't forget that landscapes out of doors may have moving leaves and branches and benefit from a shorter shutter speed.
 
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don't have a favourite because I don't use fast film.

Same here!

For LF 100 iso/ asa is typically the maximum speed that I'll shoot although I do have some sheets of HP5 that were given to me ( Not a film I would buy in any format tbh)

I have a preference for Ilford Delta 400 in 35mm and 120 formats but never used it in sheet film so can't really offer you any advice there.
 
If you're set on 400 iso then I would personally go for HP5 - although I've only ever shot in this range with that and Foma 400/320 in 4x5.
As lots appear too, I started 4x5 with Foma 100/400 due to cost but soon 'levelled-up' as was frequently getting damaged negs. They are great to start out on though because of the cost - and if you're only scanning, retouching any problems is relatively easy.

However, FP4 and Delta 100 are currently my top used 4x5.
The only reason I got a box of HP5 in was because of shooting some indoor portraits, using only available light.
 
So, it looks like my premise is false, back to the drawing board to look at ISO 100 film prices!

Though :thinking: I'm still confused about why it isn't a great advantage to get an extra 2 stops, eg a 1 second exposure rather than a 4 second metered, that turns into 9 seconds or more?
 
The only 400 I've shot it the RPX stuff which is on a nasty thin sheet and tbh I'm pretty sure I've not developed them...

So, it looks like my premise is false, back to the drawing board to look at ISO 100 film prices!
I'd get whatever is cheap at first, you will make mistakes. After awhile you'll start to lose less shots to errors and more to film quality that's when I'd switch to better film.

Though :thinking: I'm still confused about why it isn't a great advantage to get an extra 2 stops, eg a 1 second exposure rather than a 4 second metered, that turns into 9 seconds or more?
Dunno tbh, if you're shooting static objects then you might as well get the absolute best quality but if you're shooting things in the real world then those two stops could be useful.
 
I have a preference for Ilford Delta 400 in 35mm and 120 formats but never used it in sheet film so can't really offer you any advice there.

They don't make it. Much to my annoyance, was going to use it for night shots after I saw the price of acros in 4x5. I discovered that D100 has a better real life exposure than HP5 so went with that in sheet.
 
Bergger Panchro 400 €1.64
Foma Retropan 320 €0.94
Foma 400 €1.16
Ilford HP5 €2.00
Kodak TMax 400 €3.69
Kodak Tri-X 320 €3.25
Rollei Infra-red 400 €1.58
Rollei RPX 400 €1.32

Thats a depressing table when you look at it per shot :(
 
They don't make it

They do 100 iso though …...I think most folk who shoot LF don't use high speed film so to be fair to Ilford, if there isn't a large enough demand for 400 iso sheet film then they aint gunna produce it;)
 
So, it looks like my premise is false, back to the drawing board to look at ISO 100 film prices!

Though :thinking: I'm still confused about why it isn't a great advantage to get an extra 2 stops, eg a 1 second exposure rather than a 4 second metered, that turns into 9 seconds or more?


Apart from the grain/contrast/characteristics of those films, it's flexibility on sunny days for outdoor shooting.
My Copal 1 shutter max is 1/400s and Copal 3 is 1/125s. So i'll soon reach those with a higher speed film and have to start using an ND filter/pulling the film etc. which isn't always preferable.


I'd get whatever is cheap at first, you will make mistakes. After awhile you'll start to lose less shots to errors and more to film quality that's when I'd switch to better film.

Ditto. And home develop them to keep the cost as low as possible Plus you get to experiment with pushing/pulling :)
 
Dumbo question suggestion. Is there any way of cobbling a 120 film back to fit onto whatever 5 x 4 LF camera of choice you want to use?

Looking at the list then I'd probably try the Panchro. It's at the cheaper end but not too cheap. It's also worth checking to see if Lomography shop have any sheet film as they sometimes have all sorts of weird stuff.
 
Illfords revised reciprocity for Delta is still more conservative than my experiments would suggest.
 
. Is there any way of cobbling a 120 film back to fit onto whatever 5 x 4 LF camera of choice you want to use?

I may be missunderstanding exctly what it is you are wanting to do but if basically you are looking for a roll film back so that you can shoot 120 film on a 4x5 LF outfit then I may be able to help as I have a graflock ( or at least i think it is!) roll film back for my metal Wista 4x5 that I never use as I simply shoot sheet film on LF.

If your LF kit is graflock compatible then I do beleive that the roll film back will fit. We need more help with this as I'm not 100 sure about it all but I know a man who's intelligent, or at least I think he is!!:p:D @StephenM
 
I think that the question was "can I fit a roll film back from a roll film camera to a LF camera", to which the answer is "yes, if you can get the necessary metalwork done, and subject to the proviso that after this is complete, the film sits in the same plane as the ground glass". As far as I can see, the Wista 6x7 back is simply an adapted RB67 back. But it is adapted.

You can get roll film holders for LF cameras (WYC had one a week or so ago and may have it still) which can either be fitted to replace the camera back (using Graflok fittings) or, camera etc. permitting, be inserted under the ground glass like a normal dark slide.
 
. Is there any way of cobbling a 120 film back to fit onto whatever 5 x 4 LF camera of choice you want to use?
I have a graflock ( or at least i think it is!) roll film back for my metal Wista 4x5 that I never use as I simply shoot sheet film on LF.

If your LF kit is graflock compatible then I do beleive that the roll film back will f
think that the question was "can I fit a roll film back from a roll film camera to a LF camera", to which the answer is "yes, if you can get the necessary metalwork done, and subject to the proviso that after this is complete, the film sits in the same plane as the ground glass". As far as I can see, the Wista 6x7 back is simply an adapted RB67 back. But it is adapted.

Check this item out 253885687564 on our favourite auction site….It's very similar to the back that I have available;)
 
Looking at that table, and assuming that HP5 was the same as FP4 (risky), then a 1 second exposure with HP5 turns into a 21 second exposure with Fomapan 100!
Are you intending to buy this before Onich Chris? I can bring a few sheets of FP4+ and HP5+ for you to shoot, and they're fine even though they are well past their dates.
 
Are you intending to buy this before Onich Chris? I can bring a few sheets of FP4+ and HP5+ for you to shoot, and they're fine even though they are well past their dates.

I don't have my pre-ordered Chroma yet, but did get a hint that Steve was working on it, so I was just trying to get some film so as to have something to shoot at Onich. Pretty sure I won't attempt anything before then! I'm basically hoping I'll get a bit of a tutorial there. So yes, that would be excellent, thank you very much.
 
Coming back to the question of cost, it's worth noting that prices can fluctuate quite a lot over time. So for example I bought a 50-sheet pack of TMax 100 from 7dayshop when it was £85; later I saw the price go up to about £140.

So if you have a list of a few films that are acceptable to you then it's worth buying them when they are at the bottom of the price variation (not that you ever know if they're going to go any lower).
 
If anyone's interested, I've just had a rummage in the darker corners of my darkroom fridge and I could bring some elderly (but always kept in the fridge) Bergger 200 ISO and an unnamed box of 25 ISO film - I think it's Adox. Both 5x4. If anyone can clue me in on what a box of Polaroid 679 film is, it will save me Googling. I found that as well. Plus a sealed cassette of what looks like Polaroid instant 35mm slide film used to look like...

I know 200 isn't 400, but it's close. Sort of. And I know some of you have wanted a slower 5x4 film than ISO 100, so here's a chance to try some. It's an unopened box of 50 sheets, so it should last an hour or so...

Let me know if I should pack any of this.

Chris - what colour will your Chroma be?
 
If anyone's interested, I've just had a rummage in the darker corners of my darkroom fridge and I could bring some elderly (but always kept in the fridge) Bergger 200 ISO and an unnamed box of 25 ISO film - I think it's Adox. Both 5x4. If anyone can clue me in on what a box of Polaroid 679 film is, it will save me Googling. I found that as well. Plus a sealed cassette of what looks like Polaroid instant 35mm slide film used to look like...

I know 200 isn't 400, but it's close. Sort of. And I know some of you have wanted a slower 5x4 film than ISO 100, so here's a chance to try some. It's an unopened box of 50 sheets, so it should last an hour or so...

Let me know if I should pack any of this.

Chris - what colour will your Chroma be?

I think it's the Alpine Meadow edition... ;)

I think film sharing sounds fun... what happened to the suggested joint film order btw? I should ask in the other thread...

If anyone has a spare film envelope for any sheets that might possibly be exposed with an image (as opposed to firing the shutter with the dark slide in, or taking the dark slide out while the shutter's open), I'd be grateful. No idea how to get one until I've got one, IYKWIM.
 
I've probably got a spare box I can bring.

The only alpine meadows I've seen have been white (with snow).
 
I’ve got a spare box too.
 
Thanks both. Perhaps it's the Caledonian Forest Edition, Stephen? Oh, wait...
 
Ah, red as in red squirrel!

Looking back at the original post and film costs, I have a vague recollection that the ISO 25 film cost about 50p per sheet when I bought it. When I started this LF lark, Ilford FP4 was about £15 for 25 sheets.
 
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