Beginner Where to begin?

Kerry_lou

Kerry_lou

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Kerry
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Evening All,

So I've had a keen interest in photography for some time now and haven't had chance to take it any further, but life is passing by and what with new year and all that, I've decided o take the plunge. Apart from using my Panasonic Lumix TZ7 (years old) and iPhone as automatic point and shoot camera's, I don't have any real experience or knowledge so really looking for some advice where to start. I am aiming to join a basic photography course at my local college which I would hope would give me a good foundation to build on, but I'm guessing I'm not going to get much out of it with my compact, plus I might get some funny stares!!

My cousin who will also be joining me on the course has just received for Christmas a neat bridge camera, and while I like the look of it, I have read that bridge cameras are easily outgrown so I'm thinking of going down the DSLR route, something to grow into. I have been looking at the Canon vs Nikon and I was leaning towards the Nikon because the shutter speeds tend to be higher (I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but really have no clue!) because my main subject will be my super fast Labrador who really thinks she's a whippet!!! Also because the Nikon's appear to be generally slightly smaller (I am petit and have smaller than average hands) than the Canons, however after speaking to a few photography enthusiasts, they were all in support of Canon's because the lens are much widely available including compatible cheaper versions.

Naturally, I will be visiting a camera shop to trail different models to see how they feel but I want to go in with some knowledge of what I'm looking for rather than being bedazzled by the sales person and coming out with something more than I need. Budget is around £350.

Any advice or suggestions you can give, would be most appreciated.
 
you've already said it yourself, go to a camera shop and have a look and see which one you prefer the feel of. On the budget you have you are going to struggle to get past the basic entry level camera with a kit lens but unless you are trying to shoot in poor light you won't have too many issues.

You could also go down the used camera route and get a say Nikon d3200 and then look at a basic lens depending on what else you wish to photograph. (This is based on my local camera shop which have a d3200 for £219 which would then leave you with £130 to get another lens so you could go for the Nikon 35mm f1.8 for £135.99 which would be a good portrait lens.)

I've always used Nikon so can't advise on canon but I'm sure someone else will be along in the morning who can suggest what canons to look at. I also have more sigma lenses than Nikon and am more than happy with the price I have paid and the quality of photos I have taken with them. So I wouldn't be too worried as most compatible lenses are done for both canon and Nikon so should have no issues there.
 
Proud2btaff said:
you've already said it yourself, go to a camera shop and have a look and see which one you prefer the feel of. On the budget you have you are going to struggle to get past the basic entry level camera with a kit lens but unless you are trying to shoot in poor light you won't have too many issues.

You could also go down the used camera route and get a say Nikon d3200 and then look at a basic lens depending on what else you wish to photograph. (This is based on my local camera shop which have a d3200 for £219 which would then leave you with £130 to get another lens so you could go for the Nikon 35mm f1.8 for £135.99 which would be a good portrait lens.)

I've always used Nikon so can't advise on canon but I'm sure someone else will be along in the morning who can suggest what canons to look at. I also have more sigma lenses than Nikon and am more than happy with the price I have paid and the quality of photos I have taken with them. So I wouldn't be too worried as most compatible lenses are done for both canon and Nikon so should have no issues there.
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:plus1: Try and get to a proper Camera shop, not your local Currys type place.
 
I'd go the second hand route too
On a tight budget, if you take the time to hunt around you can get a nice bundle as a camera is only the start of it
You will need memory card, batteries, bag as an absolute basic start then if you like it you will want filters, flash, tripod etc depending on what you get into. If you decide you don't like it as a hobby, you should get all or most of your money back selling it again
That's what I done a few years ago, got a camera, 3 lens, bag, batteries, cards and some bits all immaculate and dead cheap because the fella bought it all new then decided it wasn't for him
There are pit falls to this too, just be careful, do some homework and check it all out best you can but you are in a good place for advice and what to look for here
 
To be fair curry's are selling the D3300 at £279 with the standard lens.

John lewis may price match it (i prefer JL)

See what your local shops is selling them at, and check.



I would go along (currys) and look at them, at least getting the feel of what they are like to hold.
 
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As above, the most important thing by far is how the cameras feel in your hand. Second to this you need to look at the system as a whole and make sure it has everything you need for the future, flashes, lenses etc etc. That being said both Canon and Nikon have pretty much everything that you need and then some. After this you can then start to look at specs. IMO when you get down to the nitty gritty specs then Nikon seem to have the advantage over Canon at the mo (for like to like models) especially where the sensor is concerned. That being said Canon do have a few tricks up their sleeves such as dual pixel tech on some models.

Just so you don't go down the wrong path from things you said in your first post, Nikon do not generally have faster shutters than Canon they are pretty much equal (although there are some variances from model to model). For even the fastest of dogs 1/1000 should be fast enough to freeze the action, and this is well within the scope of every modern DSLR I can think of. Also I wouldn't say that Canon lenses are more widely available, Nikon lenses are just as available and AFAIK whatever 3rd party lenses are available for Canon are also available for NIkon, likewise with 3rd party flashes etc. Where Canon lenses may be more readily available is in the 2nd hand market as there are still considerably more Canon users than Nikon. That being said, every time I've looked for 2nd hand Nikon lenses I've always found 100's whatever I'm looking for.
 
agree with all the above, I would say you have the best mind-set already, get into a few reputable camera shops (not electronics in general, stick specialist as the staff are more likely to know what they are on about). Play with a few models, see what suits you and then don't feel bad or sheepish about moving to the second hand market for purchase based on what you gather from hands on experience.

another thing to possibly note is that Canon do a very compact DSLR that is compatible with all the same lens', the 100D, you may find this smaller unit suits your hands etc. they come in on the second hand market at around budget with the basic (but very capable) 18-55mm kit lens. the only thing to note with this camera is though if you stick with the hobby and inevitably start to covet more serious lens' the camera may start to feel unbalanced as you hang larger/heavier lens' on the front of it.
 
Hi Kerry and welcome to TP :)

As has been said, you need to see what works for you - feel of the camera, the menu system etc...

Another thing to remember, the Canon & Nikon bodies have IS (Image Stabilisation) in (some) the lenses, whereas Pentax and Sony have IS in the camera body - so available for all lenses.
 
Start with a step back to the beginning.
Most people start NOT with a camera, but by seeing 'something' that interests them enough to think "Oh! I wish I could get a photo of that"
Then they get a camera... and the next time the see something that interests them they go "Oh! I CAN take a photo of that!"
At THAT point they are already 'in-to' this photography lark.. and it is all down hill from there...
Starting point of the slippery slope being where you are "I think I need a better camera..."
At which point, the camera starts to take precedence over the subject and you spend more time looking AT the camera than through it, and you start getting ever more disappointing pictures..and spending ever more money convinced you STILL need a 'better camera'.
My advice, JUST go book your course... go get a little learning... you shouldn't need more than an old compact to start with, and they can probably still teach you a heck of a lot abut how to get more out of even that, and ONLY when they start setting you exercises that are beyond its capability will you need anything else.. AND college bludy well ought to have 'college' cameras for you to use in them situations!
When you have reached that point in your course, THEN you can start thinking about what new camera you might like to buy for yourself. AND you will have a lot more now-how to make better decisions on what will best suit and or work for you.
And choice likely to be influenced by what the college use or the teacher uses, as the tech specs in the brochure that the salesman would REALLY love you to believe are REALLY worth the extra money on your bill!
My daughter is doing her Photo-A-Level, she uses Nikon DSLR.. (as well as some of my old film cameras!) School use Gadgets.. sorry, 'Cannon' , as does her teacher, and she finds she is constantly having to be the 'interpreter' for the Nikon Users in her class! Though, I think she's educating her teacher; she has been grumbling that he's been setting her lots of group work and 'set-up' activity in class, and then finding he's appropriated her camera, and muttering how fantastic her 'prime' lens is, whilst walking into furniture, trying to zoom with his feet lol!
Better photographers take better photo's not better cameras.. so start there, and don't start fixating on the box of tricks before you even begin, and spend ore time looking at than through, and remember WHY you want a camera and what you want pictures of, and what it was that interested you before you even thought about taking a photo of it! Co THAT is what 'makes' a picture, woth looking at, not the camera.
 
Welcome to TP Kerry :)

You're right, you need a DSLR. The key to creative control is a physically larger sensor, and DSLRs have much larger sensors than compacts or bridge cameras. Larger sensors allow you to control depth-of-field better (for the blurred background look), produce better image quality, and are better in lower light conditions. CSC cameras (Compact System Cameras) also have larger sensors but they're not as good at follow-focusing moving subjects like your lab. However, that particular subject is probably not where you should start - it takes a fair amount of skill and practise, and preferably a telezoom lens.

There is no difference between Canon and Nikon, other than subjective preference. There are some one-off deals and cash-back offers etc, but apart from that, pound for pound, they're pretty much identical (and Canon actually makes the smallest DSLR) with vast systems behind them. Maybe check things like video features or a tilting rear screen, if that's important to you. Sony and Pentax DSLRs are not nearly so popular, don't have such extensive systems, and are much thinner on the ground in the used market. As others have said, go to a decent camera shop or John Lewis, and get the one you feel most comfortable with, at the right price. There are often package deals to be had that include a budget £100-ish 70-300mm telezoom, but they're not that good. You need to spend a couple of hundred there, eg Canon 55-250 STM (note: STM version) or Tamron 70-300 VC (note: VC version). Buying used is a good idea, and the best place for that is the classified sections on here, but you won't have access to that yet.

Then you just need to practise and learn, read and ask questions on here, practise and read, practise and read etc. To get properly started on the basics, learn about the Exposure Triangle. There's a good tutorial on here, by Pookeyhead https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...ure-theory-but-were-afraid-to-ask-101.440126/

Good luck :)

Edit: don't worry about maximum shutter speeds. Any DSLR will be more than adequate on that score and you'll rarely get a bright enough day to use their maximums anyway.
 
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Teflon-Mike said:
Start with a step back to the beginning.
Most people start NOT with a camera, but by seeing 'something' that interests them enough to think "Oh! I wish I could get a photo of that"
Then they get a camera... and the next time the see something that interests them they go "Oh! I CAN take a photo of that!"
At THAT point they are already 'in-to' this photography lark.. and it is all down hill from there...
Starting point of the slippery slope being where you are "I think I need a better camera..."
At which point, the camera starts to take precedence over the subject and you spend more time looking AT the camera than through it, and you start getting ever more disappointing pictures..and spending ever more money convinced you STILL need a 'better camera'.
My advice, JUST go book your course... go get a little learning... you shouldn't need more than an old compact to start with, and they can probably still teach you a heck of a lot abut how to get more out of even that, and ONLY when they start setting you exercises that are beyond its capability will you need anything else.. AND college bludy well ought to have 'college' cameras for you to use in them situations!
When you have reached that point in your course, THEN you can start thinking about what new camera you might like to buy for yourself. AND you will have a lot more now-how to make better decisions on what will best suit and or work for you.
And choice likely to be influenced by what the college use or the teacher uses, as the tech specs in the brochure that the salesman would REALLY love you to believe are REALLY worth the extra money on your bill!
My daughter is doing her Photo-A-Level, she uses Nikon DSLR.. (as well as some of my old film cameras!) School use Gadgets.. sorry, 'Cannon' , as does her teacher, and she finds she is constantly having to be the 'interpreter' for the Nikon Users in her class! Though, I think she's educating her teacher; she has been grumbling that he's been setting her lots of group work and 'set-up' activity in class, and then finding he's appropriated her camera, and muttering how fantastic her 'prime' lens is, whilst walking into furniture, trying to zoom with his feet lol!
Better photographers take better photo's not better cameras.. so start there, and don't start fixating on the box of tricks before you even begin, and spend ore time looking at than through, and remember WHY you want a camera and what you want pictures of, and what it was that interested you before you even thought about taking a photo of it! Co THAT is what 'makes' a picture, woth looking at, not the camera.
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Whilst I agree with a lot of this I personally wouldn't want to restrict myself to a compact camera. I went down this route (well a bridge actually but same sized sensor and all that ;)) and kept it all of about 3 weeks before swapping it in for a DSLR. Why? Well creativity with depth of field. I personally love shallow DOF and subject isolation and you just can't get acceptable levels of this with your average compact/bridge (unless of course you take something at full zoom and from about 6" away, in which case you can't fit everything into the frame ;))
Also, imo it's not always necessary to go on a course, there's plenty of free online tutorials. Personally I found a better way was to teach myself the basics this way and then pick and choose the odd course for areas where you feel that you are lacking. Often you to pick up those little gems on lighting, composition etc that you struggle to find on't net. This for me was a better use of my money than 'wasting' time sat in a class learning the basics of exposure which can be found for free all over the web. Just my opinion of course ;)
 
My wife did a basic digital photography course a few years ago with a compact camera but all the practical was on a dslr provided by the college.
I bought a Nikon d3200 about 6 months ago and very pleased with it
 
Hi Kerry, when I started out on the DSLR road, I had a basic entry level Nikon, kit lens (the one that came with it 18-55) and also got a 55-200 which cost about £115.00... the 55-200 has been perfect for dog photography and in fact, it's still the lens I like using for dog action shots (but, to be fair, only bright sunny days) Starting off with something basic will give you the chance of trying out using a DSLR and you will soon develop a better idea of what you want to shoot, and your experience in this will help you chose if you want to go on further and get a better or bigger camera.
I too have small hands and currently have a Nikon D7100, and I don't think I'll be changing for a while as it suits my photography and fits my hand.
 
snerkler said:
Whilst I agree with a lot of this I personally wouldn't want to restrict myself to a compact camera.
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Not exactly what was suggested.. I said a compact is as good a start as anything; get a DSLR when you know better, what you really need.
Meanwhile, I don't often find a 'compact' partcularly 'restrictive', quite the contrary in fact. I can take a compact that slips in my pocket and can be worked one handed, places I couldn't orjust wouldn't, lug a cumbersome SLR, and get pictures I couldn't take with one. Occassionally, and only occassionally I may rue a faster shutter speed, or a higher ISO setting, but not often. My biggest grumbles with compacts in the last decade has been mostly shutter lag, and view-screen glare! I only made the plunge and bought a DSLR three years ago, because the techno-race seemed to have plateaud out and costs come down to omething sensible. For a decade or more, a reletively 'cheap' digi-compact was more than 'adequete' to do 99% of whatever I wanted, and only very very seldom, did I feel the need to use an SLR.. and for those few occassions, it was a darn site cheaper to buy a roll of film, than buy a complete new 'system'!
snerkler said:
Also, imo it's not always necessary to go on a course, there's plenty of free online tutorials.
Click to expand...
Did I mention I restore motorbikes? You know I have folk knocking on my door with engines in card-board boxes, who hope I can wave a magic spanner and make them 'work' again, who get rather annoyed when I ask whether they have the Haynes Workshop manual for it, and they start telling me "No - why do I need one of 'dem? I got google! I did wot chap on Yoooo-tyube showed me"... yeah! THAT pal is why I am riding my motorbike, and you are holding a cardboard box full of bits.....this 'its ALL On-Line' attude, and the laziness to not even look further, really grates on me these days, it really does.
Quite often you need to know more than you can learn from a you-tube tutorial, to even know that what you are being told on you-tube ISN'T all that helpful!
Old fashioned notion, but BOOKS? Often have far more useful and far more trustworthy know-how in them!
I actually have one, called 'How the Camera Works the Lady-Bird book of photography, for eleven year olds (circa 1974!)... gave it to my daughter to show her Photography teacher, for a laugh... he agreed it was offering higher level advice to primary school kids, then, than modern GCSE carriculum! And they say standards aren't slipping?!?!?
snerkler said:
This for me was a better use of my money than 'wasting' time sat in a class learning the basics of exposure which can be found for free all over the web. Just my opinion of course ;)
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Local CofFE 'spring learners' leaflet has just fallen through my door, this morning. 8 week course is £64 'full-price'. I doubt they get anywhere NEAR the exposure triangle in that time. They'll be dealing with camera handling, composition; lighting, file handling, storage, back-up, post processing, lots and lots of 'basics' that 'on-line - on demand' resources pandering to the impatient wont even touch on. BUT, the more significant aspect of a course is the 'inspiration' and 'discipline' one can instill.
Ameteur photography is an indulgence. Pros have to shoot to a brief, to a dead-line, to a budget. They cant do whatever they feel like. We amateurs takes photos of what we want when we want IF we want. And a course, being set excersises, puts check on that; you have to shoot what you are told to, like a pro. AND you get to compare your results wth the class. It can inspire you to try to do things differently, to look at different subjects, different techniques, and fess up to tackling things that DONT interest you and broadening your technique. That you just DONT get working alone, reading books, following tutorals or looking at internet forums.

Back to the bikes; I also used to teach people to ride. It would be like me saying "Nah! Dont worry about getting lessons, no point! Save your money, JUST go get a bike and give it a go, then when you CRASH! just watch a You-Tube video see if you can work out what went wrong... yeah..you may need to ask the nurse to work the mouse for you, but hey, what else you got to do in traction, eh? It's just NO! isn't it!

OK, so you cock up an exposure you dont wind up under a truck, BUT.. the school of 'hard-knocks' learning by doing, DOESN'T teach you how to do stuff 'right' it merely punishes you for getting it wrong, and you might have to get an awful lot 'wrong' before you find out, by pot luck, how not to. surely a lttle 'teaching' to learn how to do it 'right' right from the start, should make some sense.. and even in todays, on-line-on-demand-gve it me NOW mind-set, that ought to make some sense as the 'quick' way to get results!
 
Teflon-Mike said:
Not exactly what was suggested.. I said a compact is as good a start as anything; get a DSLR when you know better, what you really need.
Meanwhile, I don't often find a 'compact' partcularly 'restrictive', quite the contrary in fact. I can take a compact that slips in my pocket and can be worked one handed, places I couldn't orjust wouldn't, lug a cumbersome SLR, and get pictures I couldn't take with one. Occassionally, and only occassionally I may rue a faster shutter speed, or a higher ISO setting, but not often. My biggest grumbles with compacts in the last decade has been mostly shutter lag, and view-screen glare! I only made the plunge and bought a DSLR three years ago, because the techno-race seemed to have plateaud out and costs come down to omething sensible. For a decade or more, a reletively 'cheap' digi-compact was more than 'adequete' to do 99% of whatever I wanted, and only very very seldom, did I feel the need to use an SLR.. and for those few occassions, it was a darn site cheaper to buy a roll of film, than buy a complete new 'system'!

Did I mention I restore motorbikes? You know I have folk knocking on my door with engines in card-board boxes, who hope I can wave a magic spanner and make them 'work' again, who get rather annoyed when I ask whether they have the Haynes Workshop manual for it, and they start telling me "No - why do I need one of 'dem? I got google! I did wot chap on Yoooo-tyube showed me"... yeah! THAT pal is why I am riding my motorbike, and you are holding a cardboard box full of bits.....this 'its ALL On-Line' attude, and the laziness to not even look further, really grates on me these days, it really does.
Quite often you need to know more than you can learn from a you-tube tutorial, to even know that what you are being told on you-tube ISN'T all that helpful!
Old fashioned notion, but BOOKS? Often have far more useful and far more trustworthy know-how in them!
I actually have one, called 'How the Camera Works the Lady-Bird book of photography, for eleven year olds (circa 1974!)... gave it to my daughter to show her Photography teacher, for a laugh... he agreed it was offering higher level advice to primary school kids, then, than modern GCSE carriculum! And they say standards aren't slipping?!?!?

Local CofFE 'spring learners' leaflet has just fallen through my door, this morning. 8 week course is £64 'full-price'. I doubt they get anywhere NEAR the exposure triangle in that time. They'll be dealing with camera handling, composition; lighting, file handling, storage, back-up, post processing, lots and lots of 'basics' that 'on-line - on demand' resources pandering to the impatient wont even touch on. BUT, the more significant aspect of a course is the 'inspiration' and 'discipline' one can instill.
Ameteur photography is an indulgence. Pros have to shoot to a brief, to a dead-line, to a budget. They cant do whatever they feel like. We amateurs takes photos of what we want when we want IF we want. And a course, being set excersises, puts check on that; you have to shoot what you are told to, like a pro. AND you get to compare your results wth the class. It can inspire you to try to do things differently, to look at different subjects, different techniques, and fess up to tackling things that DONT interest you and broadening your technique. That you just DONT get working alone, reading books, following tutorals or looking at internet forums.

Back to the bikes; I also used to teach people to ride. It would be like me saying "Nah! Dont worry about getting lessons, no point! Save your money, JUST go get a bike and give it a go, then when you CRASH! just watch a You-Tube video see if you can work out what went wrong... yeah..you may need to ask the nurse to work the mouse for you, but hey, what else you got to do in traction, eh? It's just NO! isn't it!

OK, so you cock up an exposure you dont wind up under a truck, BUT.. the school of 'hard-knocks' learning by doing, DOESN'T teach you how to do stuff 'right' it merely punishes you for getting it wrong, and you might have to get an awful lot 'wrong' before you find out, by pot luck, how not to. surely a lttle 'teaching' to learn how to do it 'right' right from the start, should make some sense.. and even in todays, on-line-on-demand-gve it me NOW mind-set, that ought to make some sense as the 'quick' way to get results!
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Without meaning to cause offence this is a bit of a narrow minded view on how people choose to learn on the Internet. I certainly haven't cut corners and like to learn everything to the nth degree. There's far more out there than just YouTube. And don't forget there's good, bad and ugly in all walks of life. I went on a night photography course last year and the only thing that was taught was to keep ISO low, that's it. We just then went out and took pics with no further instruction. On the flip side I've also been on Nikon and Olympus studio courses and learnt some gems. I would guesstimate 80% of my learning has been from the Internet, 10% from books and 10% from courses.

However, I shall leave you with your opinions and wish you the best :)
 
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I just got a nikon d3300 my first DSLR recently and coming from a phone/compact like yourself, I have been blown away by the detailed images even a beginner like myself can achieve.

Totally agree with going to jessops/curry's and seeing which camera 'feels' nicer in your hands, because canon or nikons entry level DSLR cameras are more than enough for anyone beginning photography, and you can still grow in to them!
 
Welcome.
Theres a lot to learn. But its a fun journey.
I agree a bridge camera is easily outgrown and replaced by frustration until you go to dslr where you can learn what you like to shoot and then buy the lenses for your preferences.
Handling is important and often overlooked. I have the opposite problem of big hands and after a full days shoot of a small camera my fingers bleed! In a real photography shop you can ask them to show you how to properly hold a camera as a starting point.
As mentioned above, second hand is a good way to go and as brucemo says - be sure to budget for extras - including software to edit your pictures, etc
Check out your local calumet for new and second hand stock.
Think about buying a book or reading up online.
 
Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated. After all your advice I have narrowed it down to the Canon EOS 100D and Nikon D3300, and after visiting Curry's today to get a felt for the different models I think I would struggle with anything bigger than the Canon EOS 100D (I do have very small hands) which felt really comfortable, so now I'm on the search for the best package.......
 
Hi,
Starting was my major hurdle. Am I buying rubbish, is it worth it etc. My choice was a canon as I inherited it so that difficulty disappeared. Its a few years old but I asked a few guys at work and was advised it was a great starter.

I also borrowed a Nikon D7000. At that point if I'd of been asked Nikon v canon I'd of chose Nikon as I felt it was easier to use.
I popped a long to currys and found that bottom of range on both is poor, mid on both is good. So in essence try before buy.
I have got used to my canon and its a great camera.

If your really not sure (post here any deals you hear of for advice, I can't help but these guys/gals seem great), book your course and they will advise and lend. You'll come out a lot more knowledgeable with a reasonable understanding as to where to start.

Join a local photo group, again you may feel daft but everybody was a beginner once.

I havnt followed any of my own advise though and regret it as this has all come from experienced photographers......

Good luck and I hope I can get the gist of this photography lark....
 
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