Where to focus on landscape shots?

badboy1984

badboy1984

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Just want to know where to focus and why when doing landscape shots?

Auto focus or manual focus?

I'm trying to get as many part of the frame focus and sharp as possible.
 
If you look-up a DOFtable for your lens you'll see the hyperfocal distance given for each aperture value.

Manual or auto focus, whatever you find gets you reliable results. The important thing is to make sure it doesn't change once you've set-it and start finessing the composition. That generally means that either manual focus, or one-shot auto with either back-button focus or switching to manual once it has focussed.
 
there are plenty of tables which show hyperfocal distances based on f stop etc if you do a search or you can make things easier if you have a smartphone by downloading the app iDOF Calculator from the iTunes app store
dave
 
Alastair said:
If you look-up a DOFtable for your lens you'll see the hyperfocal distance given for each aperture value.

Manual or auto focus, whatever you find gets you reliable results. The important thing is to make sure it doesn't change once you've set-it and start finessing the composition. That generally means that either manual focus, or one-shot auto with either back-button focus or switching to manual once it has focussed.
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The DOFtable is a good link, cheers
 
I try to shoot at between f13 - f22 ( tripod often required) and focus on the fore gound :shrug:

seem to work and I always shoot using manual focus :thumbs:

Les ;)
 
badboy1984 said:
Just want to know where to focus and why when doing landscape shots?

Auto focus or manual focus?

I'm trying to get as many part of the frame focus and sharp as possible.
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You could Google "Hyoperfocal focusing" and have a read and there's an alternative technique here...

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/hyperfocal_distance.html

It might also be worth thinking about letting parts of your image be less sharp than others, for example letting sharpness lessen towards the distance as this can give a more natural look. Or, you can get all arty and use large apertures and get some things in the DoF and some out :)
 
Focusing 1/3 into the image and using an extended hyperfocal range set by adjusting your aperture is a good place to start, but it only works if your subject matter starts around that 1/3 point and onwards into the scene...this would be typical for many landscapes so its a good place to start. However if you subject matter starts very close to you then you'll need to focus on that, while also ensuring you have added enough hyperfocal range to cover the depths of the background as sharp as your foreground.

Typically landscapers use a wider lens to generate shots with large field of view and apparent larger DoF ranges, while also allowing close focus. Like this one, Im not a landscaper so ignor the horrid sky pls. :gag: shot at f11 maybe (cant remember) on an effective focal length of about 30.hmm maybe, focused directly onto the mid top of that big rock with enough hyperfocal to cover the background as well. :thumbs:

walesvalley1.jpg
 
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Vass said:
1/3rd into the image
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This doesn't work for landscapes where you want maximum distance in focus, from infinity down to as close as you can get. It only works for things like groups of people where you know both the near and far points, and can therefore estimate one third of the distance between them.

If you try to estimate it with landscapes, and I'm not sure what 1/3rd of infinity is, you will usually end up with less of the foreground sharp.

Correct answer is hyperfocal distance, on the link Alastair posted. Note that as distance increases so ratio of fore/aft sharpness increases. In a close-up for example, its about 50/50% in front/behind, going up to 1/99% in a distant landscape.
 
HoppyUK said:
If you try to estimate it with landscapes, and I'm not sure what 1/3rd of infinity is, you will usually end up with less of the foreground sharp.
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I think the idea is to focus 1/3 of the way up the frame. It's just a rule of thumb, but I can see it would work for a lot of landscapes.
 
gridlock said:
I think the idea is to focus 1/3 of the way up the frame. It's just a rule of thumb, but I can see it would work for a lot of landscapes.
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Well it's better than just focusing on the distance, but if you want maximum depth for sharp near foreground subjects, like maybe flowers or rocks that you want to be as crisp as possible, you'll miss.

As I look out over the fields behind the house now, one third 'up' the scene is about 20ft away. With an 18mm lens on a crop format camera, at f/11 focusing on that point would give me total sharpness from 4ft to infinity.

But hyperfocal distance at those settings is 5ft (not 20ft) and focusing on that point extends sharpness from infinity down to 2.5ft. That's nearly halving the close distance range to get near objects as sharp as possible.

Hyperfocal distance changes with both focal length and f/number.
 
Can i jump in here,so if i was to use an 18mm lens at f11 i would focus about 5ft.in front of me?:):shrug:
 
jockwav said:
Can i jump in here,so if i was to use an 18mm lens at f11 i would focus about 5ft.in front of me?:):shrug:
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Yes, on crop format.

Full frame changes things a bit, ie with a 18mm lens (which is much wider on FF) at f/11, HFD is 3.2ft and that gives sharpness down to 1.6ft.

With HFD, closest sharp focus is always exactly half the HFD. This is very handy to remember! This is how I do it, with just a few numbers stuck on a label inside the lens cap of a 17-40mm super-wide, on full frame. You can guess the inbetween settings well enough. HFD technique doesn't really work with longer focal lengths as the distances get impractically long.

Full-Frame
HFD..........f/5.6..........f/11.........f/22
17mm........5.6ft............2.8ft.........1.4ft
24mm........11.2ft..........5.7ft.........2.9ft
35mm........24ft.............12ft..........6ft

Decide what it is in the near foregound that you want sharp, and estimate that distance visually, say it's 3ft. Now double that distance (visually, easy enough to do at close range) and using centre point AF, focusing on something at that distance, ie 6ft, and lock it. Lens is set at 24mm, so check the table and the nearest to that distance, ie 5.7ft, so set f/11 and you're done.

These figures are for full frame. Go to DoFmaster http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html for crop format and draw up your own table.

I should also add that there is some debate about HFD focusing amongst keen landscapers because, by definition, it puts both the nearest and furthest parts of the subject right on the limit for acceptable sharpness.

Given that quite often the most important parts of the scene are at both nearest and furthest points then to make sure they're critically sharp, mabe just go one stop higher. Which can then get you into the diffraction zone, so, as ever, there's a bit of compromise invloved.
 
I think i am just about getting there,thanks Richard.:):thumbs:
 
jockwav said:
I think i am just about getting there,thanks Richard.:):thumbs:
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You're welcome James.

I see you also have the 17-40L on full frame, so just copy those numbers :) Add a few inbetween settings from DoFmaster if you like - there's plenty of room inside the lens cap for more.

I've actually got a few general DoF/distance/aperture numbers also noted down inside the lens caps of all my lens caps. I find it's all I need. Wish I had an iPhone, but that seems a bit extravagant just to get a DoF app!

Also on DoFmaster, you can draw up and print out a rotary DoF calculator, works just like an old style scale you get on some prime lenses, but it's much more detailed and you can customise it for exactly what you need. Includes HFD.
 
Thanks Richard,i now have a chart sorted out for myself,it just fell into place after reading your posts a few times.:):clap:
 
Ozei said:
Cheaper than an iPhone - http://www.expoimaging.com/product-...4&keywords=ExpoAperture2_Depth-of-Field_Guide. Includes HFD.
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Yes, they're very good - about £30 I think.

The calculator divides areas of sharpness into zones, and the way it works is very intuitive and good for learning as it's easy to see how the relationship between all the various factors changes DoF.

Only thing the Expo doesn't cover is long focal lengths at close distance, eg garden birds, as there's just not enough room on the dial.
 
jockwav said:
Thanks Richard,i now have a chart sorted out for myself,it just fell into place after reading your posts a few times.:):clap:
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Great James :) Glad it's working :thumbs:
 
HoppyUK said:
.... Only thing the Expo doesn't cover is long focal lengths at close distance, eg garden birds, as there's just not enough room on the dial.
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I bought the 2-disc kit mainly for HFD and yes the dial gets a bit cramped on the second disc (70-600mm). Mind you, transferring the results from either disc is tricky anyway because of the even more cramped markings on most lenses - and I'm not much good at judging distances accurately by eye.
 
Ozei said:
I bought the 2-disc kit mainly for HFD and yes the dial gets a bit cramped on the second disc (70-600mm). Mind you, transferring the results from either disc is tricky anyway because of the even more cramped markings on most lenses - and I'm not much good at judging distances accurately by eye.
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You do need to be able to judge short distances, but only up to about ten feet max - the distance to the nearest object you want sharp. Beyond that, HFD focusing is either unnecessay, because you've got plenty of DoF anyway, or impractical because you're using a longer lens that would need f/45 or something impossible. Usually.

So if you can estimate reasonably well that the nice daffodils in the foreground are say four feet away, then it's not hard to just double that by eye and focus on eight feet (method I described above). The only critical bit is your focus point must be exactly at that double distance.

Then regardless of anything else, you know that's the HFD point and the only question is what f/number you need to pull everything together sharp. So use the table for that, and if your initial guess about the nearest part of the subject is a bit out, you can get around that by shooting at f/numbers either side.

If your camera has a good LCD, magnifiy the image on that and check what's what. Scroll around a bit on max magnification and with a bit of practise you'll quyickly be able to tell where things start to get a bit blurry.

And always bear in mind that things don't suddenly go out of focus as they pass the prescribed DoF limit. It's a very gradual process, often with a little room for error that will pass unnoticed. But if things are critical, just use that one f/number higher to make sure.
 
nicely done Richard... this is all stuff that i had read and digested before... but then when my landscaping stuff is few and far between i would never have remembered it or even thought about doing any calculations. I have a similar set up to you and James, with 5D and 17-40... i generally go with 17 - 20mm (ish), F11 and lock the focus anywhere within the first 10 feet from me (that generally has a point of interest). I would only then narrow the aperture if i wanted a slower shutter speed eg. flowing water, cloud movement etc.. i guess it works (most of the time)... but your calcs are definitely something i'll be taking on board and labelling somewhere on my kit :thumbs:
 
Cheers,not really looking for prices just looking for anyone who has got one & what they think of it.:):thumbs:
 
Ozei said:
Cheaper from WEX - http://www.warehouseexpress.com/search/?q=expoaperture.
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That is a lot of money for something you will rarely use.
Cameras used to come with Built-in Hyperfocal scales, but even then not many used them.

If you look out at a landscape the far distance is usually not very "Sharp" because of either heat Haze, mist, or aerial perspective effects.
On those occasions Hyperfocal distance does not help much at all.

In most situations ( but not all) a fuzzy foreground spoils the picture, as does a fuzzy middle distance.
These are the areas to concentrate on in a majority of situations.

On the rare occasion, like in Bright sun after a shower, the whole world seems bright and sharp That is when small apertures and Hyperfocal setting come into their own. But what ever aperture you set , large or small. the only true in focus area is the one you set your focus at. every thing else is less than perfectly sharp. so make use of this fact for emphasis.
 
jockwav said:
Cheers,not really looking for prices just looking for anyone who has got one & what they think of it.:):thumbs:
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I've got one and it's very good. As said above though, the tricky bit (for me) is transferring the Expo reading to the lens. I'm not very good at judging distances accurately. e.g. I just guessed the distance to a desk lamp near my monitor to be 5 feet away but when I measured it, it's actually 6 feet away. I did think about trying a golfing laser rangefinder but most of them are useless for distances below 5 metres.
 
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Cheers for that guys.:):thumbs:
 
Alastair said:
If you look-up a DOFtable for your lens you'll see the hyperfocal distance given for each aperture value.

Manual or auto focus, whatever you find gets you reliable results. The important thing is to make sure it doesn't change once you've set-it and start finessing the composition. That generally means that either manual focus, or one-shot auto with either back-button focus or switching to manual once it has focussed.
Click to expand...

I think I am a bit of an idiot as I don't really undertand that table (I am relatively new to this hyperfocal stuff).

So I set the table to focal length of 50 for an A200 and looked at the column for f/11, the info comes back with near and far distances against a master distance column on the left. There is a row at the bottom that staes hyperfocal distances. COuld someone please explain to me how to interpret this info and what it actually means in the field as every explanation I read on the web just makes my brain haemorrhage a little bit more than it is already :(

I freely accept to wear the dunce cone of shame due to my complete lack of comprehension on this subject so apologies up front for that if I am asking something simple
 
*snip*...Decide what it is in the near foregound that you want sharp, and estimate that distance visually, say it's 3ft. Now double that distance (visually, easy enough to do at close range) and using centre point AF, focusing on something at that distance, ie 6ft, and lock it. Lens is set at 24mm, so check the table and the nearest to that distance, ie 5.7ft, so set f/11 and you're done...
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So that's how you use it! I've understood the theory for some time but never known exactly how to apply it. Very useful, thanks for the explanation.
 
wildman said:
I think I am a bit of an idiot as I don't really undertand that table (I am relatively new to this hyperfocal stuff).

So I set the table to focal length of 50 for an A200 and looked at the column for f/11, the info comes back with near and far distances against a master distance column on the left. There is a row at the bottom that staes hyperfocal distances. COuld someone please explain to me how to interpret this info and what it actually means in the field as every explanation I read on the web just makes my brain haemorrhage a little bit more than it is already :(

I freely accept to wear the dunce cone of shame due to my complete lack of comprehension on this subject so apologies up front for that if I am asking something simple
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Its not duncy at all, just needs a bit of explaining :) If i set that chart up for an A200 with a 24mm lens as that gives us a bit more in the way of infinity settings compared to the 50mm.

The column on the left is an important one as that represents the distance scale that your lens will have. All lenses have them on the barrell, some a bit better than others, but it will be there.

You can see that at f11, if you rotate then lens round till it shows 9feet on the distance marker you will have eveything in focus from 4' 4" until infinity.

If you think 4' 4" is too far away, you can see on the chart that the next setting that will give you infinity at one end and something closer at the other is f16 but only if you set the lens set to 6 feet. This should give you 3' to infinity which is better :)

What i did was print off that chart for every mm on my 12-24 and laminate them, then just carry them round in my bag. Very handy things :)
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
If you look out at a landscape the far distance is usually not very "Sharp" because of either heat Haze, mist, or aerial perspective effects.
On those occasions Hyperfocal distance does not help much at all.
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That's pretty much what I thought a while back when I tried a few landscape shots :thinking: I suppose the weather/scene has to be just right.
 
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