WHICH BEAUTY DISH OF THESE TWO...?

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Stevie
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One IS a beauty dish the other is a pop up softbox in a closely related shape to a beauty dish but that is as far as it gets, that is not to say that it does not produce a good lighting source (I have been told by a user that it is fantastic), just that it is not and never could be a real beauty dish.

Question is, what are you trying to do with it?

Mike
 

The second one is the better softlight because, by definition, it is a circular
light source that, though softening the shadow, will render the crispiest
details. Works wonders on slight complexion problem zones and will
deliver a stupendous falloff!

The softlight may be equipped with a grid or a sock, both being of significant
interest for close portrait shooters. Neither of the presented models is found
in my studio since, for optimum efficiency, all my inner reflection areas are only
of the silver type… as it is easier to soften than it is to harden a light source.

Furthermore, the first one
would defeat the purpose by its size.
 
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One IS a beauty dish the other is a pop up softbox in a closely related shape to a beauty dish but that is as far as it gets, that is not to say that it does not produce a good lighting source (I have been told by a user that it is fantastic), just that it is not and never could be a real beauty dish.

Question is, what are you trying to do with it?

Mike
Correct, it is NOTHING like a beauty dish, it's basically a folding softbox sans reflectors - which can be useful, unless of course you want a beauty dish. It does have a deflector, but the deflector can only work if the "beauty dish" is rotated correctly on its speedring.

The second one IS a beauty dish, and a white one can be a good choice for many people - silver ones produce much more striking results, but require models with perfect bone structure and first class complexion. But, in my experience, very few people actually know how to use a beauty dish, nor do they have access to suitable models. Used wrongly, or with the wrong models, they should be re-named "ugly dish".
 
Thanks all...
Ive owned and used a 70cm silver one...and found them a bit crispy on the highlights for my liking...hence the white ones here I was looking at...
I dont mind the rotating issue...minor to make sure it it one way up...
It comes with a sock that head a circle rather than Octa look...as well as a Octa Grid...
My train of thought was that it was white so softer...is portable...and very large...so softer...
I do like the normal beauty dishes...have a smaller one that is useful...
Also thought this would be a worthwhile venture for use with my Calumet Bare bulb flash for portability...

Thanks...and if you know someone who uses even better...

STEVIER
One IS a beauty dish the other is a pop up softbox in a closely related shape to a beauty dish but that is as far as it gets, that is not to say that it does not produce a good lighting source (I have been told by a user that it is fantastic), just that it is not and never could be a real beauty dish.

Question is, what are you trying to do with it?

Mike
 
Well, if you put a diffusing sock over it then it will become similar to a softbox of that size and shape, albeit with only 1 diffusion panel, and with that diffuser fitted to the outside of the "softbox", which is the worst possible place for lighting control. If that's what you want, then fine... but as your question is about beauty dishes, I'm just a bit confused...
 
Well, if you put a diffusing sock over it then it will become similar to a softbox of that size and shape, albeit with only 1 diffusion panel, and with that diffuser fitted to the outside of the "softbox", which is the worst possible place for lighting control. If that's what you want, then fine... but as your question is about beauty dishes, I'm just a bit confused...

I meant with the reflector still in place...so...same as you would with a sock on a beauty dish...(reflector inside bouncing light...sock on outside diffusing light)...
Apologies if confusing Garry...but as I said "Anyone any info on the 120cm one"...as I haven't used it I could surmise the same as you have...or possibly like Mike Weeks mate who liked it...
Would have been nice if someone had used both...I realise the 2nd is the 'real deal' beauty dish...but wondered if anyone had used the first and had some insight (i.e. some pics...or 'it's still not great'...or 'works a treat with grid fitted'...)

STEVIER
 
OK... I know who makes these and we were given one to test over 3 years ago, we tested it and rejected it, for the reasons given. I can't remember what size it was and can't check because we binned it, but I'm pretty certain that it was smaller than the one you have in mind.


Furthermore, the first one would defeat the purpose by its size.
I can't agree with this. Many years ago I worked for a leading advertising studio in Germany that was equipped with 1.5m beauty dishes (plus smaller ones) and they were great. There were practical problems (due to size and weight) but with the type of photography we did, and because we had very high ceilings, they were a great tool. From memory, I think they were hand made specifically for this studio.
 
I can't agree with this…
• If a soft light is used at more than close range (0,75~1,50 m) then it is no longer
a softlight but just an other reflector.


• The same thing goes for any size wrapping umbrella or octo, if used over a given
distance, the wrapping effect is gone and it is just an other light source.

These two points can be tested/proven by anyone with an umbrella or a softlight at
home or in studio with any type of light source.
 
I meant with the reflector still in place...so...same as you would with a sock on a beauty dish...(reflector inside bouncing light...sock on outside diffusing light)...
Apologies if confusing Garry...but as I said "Anyone any info on the 120cm one"...as I haven't used it I could surmise the same as you have...or possibly like Mike Weeks mate who liked it...
Would have been nice if someone had used both...I realise the 2nd is the 'real deal' beauty dish...but wondered if anyone had used the first and had some insight (i.e. some pics...or 'it's still not great'...or 'works a treat with grid fitted'...)

STEVIER
The thing is, a sock on a beauty dish becomes a round softbox. If that's what you need, a small brolly box is much cheaper than a BD. The BD is in its element without the sock, and if I'm being picky, with a honeycomb grid attached. The pop up one can't come close to that effect, whereas at the lowest common denominator, they become more similar. But there are cheaper versions available if the lowest common denominator is what's required.
 
…a sock on a beauty dish becomes a round soft box…
The BD is in its element without the sock …and if I'm being picky, with a honeycomb grid attached.
+1… and in silver version

If I may add, in their very different ways, both the softlight and brolly will perform better
if at a closer distance from the subject.

With the brolly shown in the opening post, the design is for a speedlight used without
diffusor.
 
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OK... I know who makes these and we were given one to test over 3 years ago, we tested it and rejected it, for the reasons given. I can't remember what size it was and can't check because we binned it, but I'm pretty certain that it was smaller than the one you have in mind.

I can't agree with this. Many years ago I worked for a leading advertising studio in Germany that was equipped with 1.5m beauty dishes (plus smaller ones) and they were great. There were practical problems (due to size and weight) but with the type of photography we did, and because we had very high ceilings, they were a great tool. From memory, I think they were hand made specifically for this studio.
• If a soft light is used at more than close range (0,75~1,50 m) then it is no longer
a softlight but just an other reflector.


• The same thing goes for any size wrapping umbrella or octo, if used over a given
distance, the wrapping effect is gone and it is just an other light source.

These two points can be tested/proven by anyone with an umbrella or a softlight at
home or in studio with any type of light source.
Your statement re distance isn't entirely wrong, in the sense that it can sometimes be right, but it's far too broad a statement.
The reality is that a 'soft' light is a light that is effectively larger than the subject that it illuminates. If it is larger, then light is hitting the subject from a large number of different points and some of that light is coming from the sides/top/bottom, so creates the wraparound effect that you mention.
But, every time we double the light source to subject distance, the effective size of the light source reduces to a quarter, which is line with the Inverse Square Law, and although almost everyone understands the effect of the ISL in relation to the reduction of effective light power, not everyone understands the effect that it has on effective light source size.

So, your statement that
• If a soft light is used at more than close range (0,75~1,50 m) then it is no longer
a softlight but just an other reflector.


• The same thing goes for any size wrapping umbrella or octo, if used over a given
distance, the wrapping effect is gone and it is just an other light source.
is only true if the increase in light source to subject causes the effective size of the light source tobe smaller than it needs to be to produce the effect that it is intended to achieve - which is why the 1.5m beauty dishes that I mentioned earlier were so useful - they allowed a much greater light source to subject distance without losing the qualities of a beauty dish. Obviously, a beauty dish of that size would be impracticable in a home studio because, apart from the weight, size and cost, a home studio would have far too low a ceiling.
In the same way, a large reflective umbrella can be incredibly useful in a large studio. I have one of these in the Lencarta studio, regardless of any fancy names that are given to these things, it's a large reflective umbrella:) with a near-parabolic shape, and it comes into its own when I want a specular light for fashion photography but where I need it to be large enough to allow for the necessary movement of the model.

The soft/hard effect is almost entirely due to the combination of size and distance, this is governed by the immutable laws of physics, but some practical variations do occur. For example, a softbox or beauty dish does not become 'harder' or 'softer' simply because it has a silver or white interior, but when the interior is silver it does become more specular. In theory, the same thing applies when a softbox is used without diffusion, but in practice, even at the same distance, a softbox does become 'softer' when fitted with diffusion, simply because the diffuser spreads the light over a larger area - and the smaller and lighter coloured the studio is, the more unplanned light bounces from walls and the ceiling, making the light look even softer. But, with properly designed beauty dishes, the shape is nearly parabolic and there is a hard(ish) cut off of light from it and unwanted light doesn't bounce around as it does when produced by either a softbox or an umbrella - it's a more precise tool which, in the right circumstances/usage, produces a light quality like no other - which of course can be either good or bad.

Back to topic. As already discussed, the first product is not a beauty dish and is nothing like a beauty dish - but this doesn't mean that it's a bad light source - unless what you need is a beauty dish
 
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