Which (Canon) Body?

ashbank

ashbank

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Hi again guys,

As some of you who have helpfully responded on my other thread will know, I am pretty much a complete beginner who wants to be able to take decent pictures of my own horses - this will be a mixture of pictures inside and out. The inside arena at the yard is incredibly gloomy (darker than Keysoe, for horse venue people) and so I need to get a fairly decent bit of kit.

I know lenses are arguably more important than the body, but someone has pointed out to me that my 20D is not going to cut the mustard and isn't really up to my requirements. So, for the money (sub £1k) what are my options?

Is the 60D going to be a good choice? I have pretty much made up my mind that I will be investing in something, and don't really want to be at a point in a few months where I was wishing I had got a better model, but equally don't have a lot of cash to throw around...
 
ashbank said:
but someone has pointed out to me that my 20D is not going to cut the mustard and isn't really up to my requirements. ...
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I'd say that was complete *******s to be fair. .... Is this person saying that before 2004 people were incapable of taking pictures of Horses in venues because the cameras wernt good enough ?


Yes a 60D will be better ... but you will still need a decent fast lens and or powerful flash to shoot indoors no matter how many more mega pixels you have
 
Johnnybugs said:
Yes a 60D will be better ... but you will still need a decent fast lens and or powerful flash to shoot indoors no matter how many more mega pixels you have
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shooting horse's indoors with a powerful flash... sorry but NO!

its not about more megapixels its about better iso
 
I know that the 20D will get some pictures (provided I use a decnet lens) but I think the poster who hinted that it might not be the best body was probably correct!

I appreciate the point about flashes being useful in low light, but agree with Kipax that they are not usable in this context - unpredictable animals and sudden flashes are not a good combo, even if it is only my animals I am planning on shooting!

Would the 60D be a better option than a 550D, for example? I am really not sure of the pros and cons of these cameras for my specific requirements, and I don't really know enough to be able to read many of the online comparisons and put the points into my context.

Low light ability (in conjunction with a suitable lens) and a fairly high fps rate are two of my criteria, but I don't know what else I should be considering.
 
iam probably the last person to give advice as i dont know a great deal...but i recently purchased the 60d and think its a great camera...and is more than capable shooting in low light :)
 
I'm sorry to say that if you want to do it properly, you'll have to throw a lot of money at it.

Outdoors, no problem, do it with anything. But indoors, the light in these horsey places is often terrible and with a moving subject you're stuffed on shutter speed, and no flash, which leaves high ISO and low f/numbers as the only places to go.

The pros use very high end gear, full frame for best ISO and f/2.8 or lower lenses. Nikon D700 or similar and a decent lens, £3k upwards. You could probably get away with a 60D and say 85 1.8 lens for about a third of that, depending on the level of output quality you need.
 
ashbank said:
Low light ability (in conjunction with a suitable lens) and a fairly high fps rate are two of my criteria, but I don't know what else I should be considering.
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High iso capability should be first on your list.. You should be looking at usable iso at 3200 as your starting point... then a lens with at least f2.8
 
Have you considered the 7D - I am sure you can get them for sub 1K these days. Great focussing and FPS.
 
You might be surprised at how good the 20D is with a fast lens. I have a 200/2.8 and have had good low light results with it. For £1k you could get a 135mm F2 L and have some change left over. It might be worth hiring one and trying it out to see if you can get results with it. If not you know you need to reassess your budget.
 
as i said in the thread in the sports section the 20D will struggle in most indoor equestrian arenas. fact is most of them are poorly lit and have no natural light and/or the skylights are filthy.

sure fast glass will help but youll soon find that on an overcast day youre heading up to ISO1600 which is going to lose a lot of detail.

its the main reason i upgraded from the 20D to the 1Dmk3, although some days even with that ive been using ISO6400 indoors.
 
I really doubt any of xxD will be up to the job. I'd be looking for used 1d mk2 or 1d mk3. Yes they are expensive, but if you want to do justice to these beautiful creatures, eps indoors - you'll have to invest in proper kit.

70-200 F2.8 L would be my choice of lens. Or if money allow 70-200 F2.8 L IS II. Or probably 135 F2 L, depedns of how large the arena is.
 
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1dmkII wont be up to it.. Starting point would be a mKIII imho... the jump in iso capabilities from the mkII to the mkIII was massive as indeed was the mkIII to mkIV ..I have owned all those two at a time.. A used mkIII would be better than a new 7d IMHO AND SIMMILAR PRICE.. although i never owned a 7d.. just by what I read ...
 
ashbank said:
but someone has pointed out to me that my 20D is not going to cut the mustard and isn't really up to my requirements.
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Hi

You say the 20D isn't going to cut the mustard or doesn't?

My recommendation would be to take photos with your current kit and then you'll have a better of understanding what it is you need to achieve what you want. You'll also understand where to prioritise your budget.

For completely different reasons I'm also starting out and before buying any lenses I can thoroughly recommend using http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/ to try a lens first.

I've just tried the 70-200 L f2.8 IS II (rrp £1900) for a week at £90 and discovered the 70-200 L f2.8 non-IS (rrp £1100) is more than enough for me.
 
I do a lot of indoor show jumping with a 50d and a sigma 70-200 f/2.8 and a selection of fast primes and get very good results indeed!

You don't always need FF, but it certainly helps!

Can post images for the doubters if they want?
 
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gunnar said:
I really doubt any of xxD will be up to the job. I'd be looking for used 1d mk2 or 1d mk3. Yes they are expensive, but if you want to do justice to these beautiful creatures, eps indoors - you'll have to invest in proper kit.

70-200 F2.8 L would be my choice of lens. Or if money allow 70-200 F2.8 L IS II. Or probably 135 F2 L, depedns of how large the arena is.
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Wrong. The xd bodies will be better of course but used correctly the 50d/60d will be more than fine, 40d and below will be more difficult.
 
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Wow, thanks for the replies guys. Can anybody recommend places to buy second hand kit? I've been keeping half an eye on ebay, but always seem to miss the things I am watching. I have no problem with buying used equipment, but don't know the best places to look.

Thanks you very much for all the advice - any more will be appreciated! I am using the 20D with a 135 f/2 this weekend so I will see how I get on with that, but I am aware that in the long run if I want to improve I need to up the quality of my kit as well as my skills.

I suspect reading the instruction manual for the 20D will also aid me somewhat!

Jim - please do post a couple of pics!
 
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ashbank said:
Wow, thanks for the replies guys. Can anybody recommend places to buy second hand kit? I've been keeping half an eye on ebay, but always seem to miss the things I am watching. I have no problem with buying used equipment, but don't know the best places to look.

Thanks you very much for all the advice - any more will be appreciated! I am using the 20D with a 135 f/2 this weekend so I will see how I get on with that, but I am aware that in the long run if I want to improve I need to up the quality of my kit as well as my skills.

I suspect reading the instruction manual for the 20D will also aid me somewhat!

Jim - please do post a couple of pics!
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Theres this forum when you can access the used section, other than that I'd recommend MPB Photographic...

http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/

They generally have the 50D in stock and the odd 1D/1Ds/5D aswell if you keep a lookout.
 
ashbank said:
Wow, thanks for the replies guys. Can anybody recommend places to buy second hand kit? I've been keeping half an eye on ebay, but always seem to miss the things I am watching. I have no problem with buying used equipment, but don't know the best places to look.

Thanks you very much for all the advice - any more will be appreciated! I am using the 20D with a 135 f/2 this weekend so I will see how I get on with that, but I am aware that in the long run if I want to improve I need to up the quality of my kit as well as my skills.

I suspect reading the instruction manual for the 20D will also aid me somewhat!

Jim - please do post a couple of pics!
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Ok here's a few very high iso indoor showjumping shots taken in VERY poor lighting conditions on a 50d and Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 EX HSM II;

ISO 2500

Alana jumping 2 by Odd Jim, on Flickr

ISO 1600

_MG_6574 by Odd Jim, on Flickr

ISO 1600

_MG_6569 by Odd Jim, on Flickr

I had a few at iso 3200 but I cant seem to find them, I'll post one up if I can find them!

EDIT - ok here's one at iso 3200 (this was possibly the worst lit area I had ever seen!)

George jumping 10 by Odd Jim, on Flickr

Of course, a 7d or 5d or 1dmk3 etc will be cleaner, but I just wanted to show that an xxd camera is more than capable, even indoor sport in very poor lighting, as it is with modern xxxd bodies.
 
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neil_g said:
to be honest that doesnt look very poor lighting, ive had a lot worse.. :LOL:
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It doesn't look like it as I had to overexpose all of them! In some arenas I wonder how they can see well enough to get round the course! :LOL:
 
Thats bad! Did you even bother shooting??!
 
10/10 for perseverance! I get really annoyed at these events, especially when they have indoor flood lights and DONT use them as usually the organisers are too tight!
 
I would be pleased to be able to take pics that clear in an indoor, Jim!

Am now awaiting the arrival of a 60D. Nearly went for the 7D after reading some discussions on here, but I think the 60 will be enough of an improvement on the 20 for me to learn some more on..

Thanks all!
 
odd jim said:
Ok here's a few very high iso indoor showjumping shots taken in VERY poor lighting conditions on a 50d and Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 EX HSM II;
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As quoted above a 50D would work perfectly fine in low-light conditions and I use the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 and is a good lens and again capable in low-light! :clap: :)

If i were you I would keep my eyes peeled on http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/as I know you can get very good deals on 'GOOD QUALITY' second hand equipment on there as that is where i purchased my 70-200m f/2.8.

Hope this helps with the answer to your question. Feel free to ask me any questions.
 
What gets me about some of the replies here is, how did people manage years ago with older DSLR's then if some are saying they won't cope in low light? When technology wasn't what it is today?
 
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