Which kit to buy? Elinchrom or Bowens?

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Hoodledoodle

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I need a flash kit to take portrait and also bellydance shoots - would like a 3 light set to have the most flexibility.

Have narrowed down the choice to either:

Bowens 400/400 and a Bowens 750 pro

Elinchrom D-lite 4 and an Elinchrom Style 600

Would like to have softbox, shoot thru umbrella, snoot and the option to add other attachments.

Don't need it to be portable at the moment - maybe in the future, but figured I could hire a power pack if I need one

Can any one advise me on which would be best? Not sure which radio trigger system I'd need for either and what the cost would be for those.

Sorry if this is answered already, I did do a search, but can't find anything that answers my question :)

Ta

Heather
 
Heather do you anywhere near an outlet like the Flash Centre or a branch of Calumet where you could look over/try the units on your short list?

You mention the Elinchrom D-lite & Style 600, but the D-lite is their 'budget' offering and the style aimed at the serious pro - what level do you intend to work too? I perceive these to be very different from each other (don't know much about Bowens).

What size of location are you constrained by and your initial budget?

How did you arrive at your shortlist?

Paul
 
I was after a main light which would be the strongest and was thinking to use the cheaper ones as background or secondary lights, and I thought I could save money by getting lower power lights for these.

Locations will be various, all indoors for now with mains. My budget is about £1100 max to include the radio trigger equipment; had been planning to buy the lights I need 2nd hand.

Am I thinking totally off with this?

Heather
 
how do you feel they're different from each other, and what do you feel makes them incompatible?

Ta very much

H
 
If you're limiting yourself to those two makes....
Bowens for build quality
Elinchrom for light quality (colour consistency and flash energy consistency is generally a bit better)
But your reasoning seems a bit flawed to me...
Lower powered lights should generally be used for fill lighting, although that's not a hard and fast rule. Lights on the background need to be more powerful than lights on the main subject, not less, or at least they do if you want the background to be white or if you want to use lighting gels on a dark background.

750 or 600 Ws is a LOT of lighting power, unless you're shooting medium/large format or shooting complex still life sets, furniture or other roomsets, or if you need to produce massive prints, and total overkill for most portrait photographers. It's true that you can get faster recycling by turning the power down, but recycling with any good make of flash is pretty fast even at full power. For most people it's better to spend less on the lights and more on the lighting tools. If you occasionally need another stop of so of power, just up the ISO a bit.
 
Not particularly anything to do with compatibility, just that they have differing flash duration, re-cycle times, build quality, types of modelling lamp...

A D-lite kit will come with a wireless trigger by the way and as a consequence will trigger the other lights via their slave cells. Would a 250/250 BRXi kit and a 500 BRXi head come in at about the same cost? This would give you the variation in power and consistent operation, looks & 'feel'. I would also say that 600ws of flash is a lot of light and you might spend most of your time with it turned down - how big a space do you need to fill with light? Perhaps 3 x 250's would be more than enough?

Paul
 
I need to stop dance motion - sometimes pretty fast, and with a group of people which is why I thought a 750 would be useful.

I also did a course and was advised to buy one light stronger than the other as I would rarely need them both to be as strong as each other. they recommended 600/400. I've used Bowens (a 500), loved them, but they were quite heavy. Never had a chance to use the Elincrhom though, so I think I need to go and sample them out.

However really grateful to the advice to look out the Flash Centre and Calumet, which I will do.

More soon, please do keep advising though :)
 
Stopping motion is more a factor for flash duration than power, but it is where most 'pro' heads will out spec the budget ones. D-lite 4's 1/800s, Style 600 will be 1/2050s (full power), but down to 1/850 at lowest power setting. The BXRi's improve on this with 1/2762s (full) to 1/2165 (half) but don't give a spec for their minimum output so perhaps not too great there!

The head I've got in the post ranges from 1/3000 to 1/1200 at worst and has a max re-cycle time of 0.6 seconds, but it is only 200ws - its replacing a head that is between 1/600 - 1/400s with a re-cycle time of nearly 3 seconds, but I have been using them for nearly 30 years ;)

But it is a factor that the power (ws) of the head isn't perhaps the most important part of the spec list! For most (as far as I can see, generalising) the higher the power (ws) of the head, the longer the flash duration and re-cycle time.

Paul
 
just to compare the bowens pro range have a duration of 1/2900s at full power & the standard gemini are 1/900s,

If your not too fussed about them being portable or usable on the field then have you looked at the Lencarta Elite pros just quoting the site here "Flash duration (t.5) 1/2000th"

Just throwing another option into the mix :).
 
Your best option in my opinion is a 3 head BXRI kit. They have very fast flash durations and built in skyports. With these you can use the on-camera skyport transmitter to control the power of each flash, without having to move to each light to do it manually.

My preference is Elinchrom, colour consistency is great and the modifiers are fantastic.
 
Elinchrom BRXi's were top of my list until I decided to stick with Multiblitz, even after my less that glowing thoughts on some aspects of their newer units.

Paul
 
Going to Calumet and the Flash Centre tomorrow so hopefully will have a better idea then.

Speak soon!

H
 
Always a bit disappointing when you get psyched up for something and then can't do it. However, strangely refreshing in these days of 7 day a week opening and 24/7 on-line stores that they feel confident enough of their market position not to bother with Saturdays/Sundays! Mind you at least you won't get the Saturday 'person' who doesn't really know anything :D

Warehouse Express unfortunately only seem to have a 'store front' in Norwich but are open 7 days a week.

Paul
 
I know how gutted you must have felt to find the flash center was closed on the day you had to spare, I took a day off work and drove from Chester to Liverpool only to find Calumet had closed their Liverpool store a few weeks earlier but hadn't removed it from their website.

I bought a pair of Bowen's 500's to go with the other 2 we already had from warehouse express in the end.
 
I've seen some Elinchroms now and they are things of great beauty :) I'm torn between BXRi's and Style RX.
However I've heard that the BXRi's:
-won't allow for tethered shooting
-cannot be used with any battery packs for location shooting
Is that right?
 
Hoodledoodle said:
I've seen some Elinchroms now and they are things of great beauty :) I'm torn between BXRi's and Style RX.
However I've heard that the BXRi's:
-won't allow for tethered shooting
-cannot be used with any battery packs for location shooting
Is that right?
Click to expand...

Download manuals here or ask the Flash Centre - Monday to Friday :D

Don't know anything about tethered shooting, but thought that was a camera to computer thing?

As for location use I don't see why they won't work with any of the many battery inverters on sale - the Flash Centre has a demo video of this with D-lites, but always wise to check

Paul

Paul
 
Good advice - will give them a call. The Elinchrom website says this which is why I was puzzled - as you say it should be computer to camera...: * BX 500 Ri does not offer the computer remote fonction.
 
Hoodledoodle said:
Good advice - will give them a call. The Elinchrom website says this which is why I was puzzled - as you say it should be computer to camera...: * BX 500 Ri does not offer the computer remote fonction.
Click to expand...

Right :) *BX 500 Ri does not offer the computer remote function* means that it doesn't have the Skyport RX compatibility via PC.

BXRI - you can adjust the power and channels all via the Skyport transmitter ON CAMERA, on the hot shoe, in your position.

RX (with rx receiver plugged into the head, includes ranger RX and style RX heads) - You can adjust the power on camera with the transmitter as per the BXRI, BUT you can also use an RX USB adapter on your PC/MAC, along with RX studio software, to control each light via your computer. There is loads of functionality in there, not just power up/power down, have a look on youtube I think I saw an enlighten video on there about it.

Tethered shooting is Camera to Computer, so the image goes straight to the computer for viewing and editing. BXRI or not, no difference here, nothing to do with what lights you use.

Hope that helps :)

Style RX lights are the absolute nuts! If you can afford them and you're seriously considering them, just buy them they're brilliant. The BXRI's would 110% fulfil every need I personally have, and I have a preference for adjusting the power via the transmitter over using a PC, BUT I do see the ease of use when using lights in awkward positions. The software will show you exactly what's going on with each light, including the most obvious...what power its set at. It's gotta make multiple light set ups so much easier surely! :cool:

Kind Regards

Danny
 
hi,
I have pretty much decides on the BXRi's as well. I spoke to the Flash Centre and they said it will take an external power pack, about 400 squids I think. The lights look good bits of kit and better value for money than Bowens.

Dunc
 
Duncan.F said:
hi,
I have pretty much decides on the BXRi's as well. I spoke to the Flash Centre and they said it will take an external power pack, about 400 squids I think. The lights look good bits of kit and better value for money than Bowens.

Dunc
Click to expand...

Rubbish I missed that bit out...

Yes 100%, the BXRIs can be powered by the Innovatronix Explorer XT SE. The XT SE is compatible whereas the XT isn't, as the BXRIs are multi-voltage, i.e they read the input voltage and adjust automatically, so 110v or 230v AC, either way, you're good.

Also I believe the Vagabond 2 from PCB may work, and Innovatronix have two new offerings that will run the BXRIs, the Mini explorer and the XT3.

So a few options ;)

Regards

Danny
 
It's not so much the lights as the environment and required modifiers that you'll need to take into concideration.

If you're shooting in a small location then you could easily struggle with lights that are too powerful


Other than that the only other advise I'd say is that the more expensive lights will typically give you a shorter flash duration and a quicker recycle.
 
callumw said:
It's not so much the lights as the environment and required modifiers that you'll need to take into concideration.

If you're shooting in a small location then you could easily struggle with lights that are too powerful


Other than that the only other advise I'd say is that the more expensive lights will typically give you a shorter flash duration and a quicker recycle.
Click to expand...

Tis unfortunately very true, just turned down a stonking deal on a SH 800ws head as I find I rarely use my 200ws heads on full power.

As for Elinchrom modifiers they seem to be reasonably priced and discounted - the only issue I would have had was the main 7mm umbrella shaft socket, but the auxiliary one now fitted takes the more standard 8mm shaft.

Paul
 
Brilliant advice from the person who mentioned checking the manuals... now clear that there are different Skyports for different lights...

Great to know about the battery packs, that was the really the main question I had... although after looking at the manuals I find I just have more questions :)

I've discounted the 1200 models - I can't see myself needing to light a football ground anytime soon. I'm really now debating between the Style 300 RX and the Style 600 RX and possibly the BXRi 250 or 500. I see that the Style 300 RX offers a range of 9 to 300, the 600 RX a range of 18 to 600, with the BXRi 250 and 500 being 16-250 and 31-500 respectively and wondering what the implications of these are - does that mean I'll have greater flexibility in smaller spaces with the lower numbers, saying in a 3m x 3m space? As I don't have any modifiers at all, was planning to get a kit and then if I need another light to add it later. What are the pros and cons of getting a kit with higher power i.e 600/600 RX (or BXRi 500/500) and then add a 300 RX (BXRi 250) later, or vice versa?

Re flash duration according to the manual the 300 RX and the BXRi 250 appear to be faster - is that right?

As for BXRi versus RX, I see you get a 250 modelling light with the RX, just 100 with the BXRi - will this be noticeable (I've only ever used 250 in practice sessions).

The guide mentions the BXRi has 1/16 - 1/1 f stop and the RX has 6 F-stops 1/32 - 1/1. Trying to get my head around what that means in practice?

The recycling times seem pretty similar - not significantly different to affect a buying decision.

The main difference between RX and BXRi would appear to be that the skyport transceivers are built in the BXRi and with the RX you have the ability to control multiple lights from the computer with the software.

Has anyone used that Skyport software - and what do they think of it (I'm on a Mac).

Ta

Heather
 
Hoodledoodle said:
Re flash duration according to the manual the 300 RX and the BXRi 250 appear to be faster - is that right? The manual knows best I would've thought

As for BXRi versus RX, I see you get a 250 modelling light with the RX, just 100 with the BXRi - will this be noticeable (I've only ever used 250 in practice sessions).Yes it will be noticable, whether or not its an implication for you and the work you're doing only you can judge

The guide mentions the BXRi has 1/16 - 1/1 f stop and the RX has 6 F-stops 1/32 - 1/1. Trying to get my head around what that means in practice? It means that the BXRI at minimum power is 1/16 it's full flash power, and the RX goes down to 1/32 of it's full flash power, so it relates to what you mentioned about shooting with powerful lights in small spaces and the heads range

The recycling times seem pretty similar - not significantly different to affect a buying decision.

The main difference between RX and BXRi would appear to be that the skyport transceivers are built in the BXRi and with the RX you have the ability to control multiple lights from the computer with the software. Spec wise maybe, but in real terms I would think that the RX houses better components and has improved build quality, it is their top end pro mono light and the cost reflects this over the BXRI units

Has anyone used that Skyport software - and what do they think of it (I'm on a Mac). Did you research this or look at any videos? For a three light set up, shooting portraits and belly dancing, I can't really see that you'll be placing lights in really remote and awkward positions, adjustability from camera position is likely to be quicker and easier. Just my opinion though, only you can tell whether this will benefit you
Click to expand...
 
Indoors and certainly in smaller spaces, I've never wanted very bright modelling lights, however outdoors you'll need the brightest you can get to even see the effect on anything but the dullest day. Also as a general rule, the lower (the max) power of the flash head, the shorter both the flash duration & recycle times. But as has been mentioned before, the individual flash head will have a longer duration at lower settings, but a quicker recycle time.

Paul
 
I don't like the build of the cheaper Elinchroms but their modifiers are quite nice. Bowens softboxes are a nightmare to take apart.
 
Ive just bought a Bowens Travel Pak kit Gemini 500/500R, with Pulsar triggers

Used it for the first time yesterday, well impressed

Regards

Phil
 
Hoodledoodle said:
Brilliant advice from the person who mentioned checking the manuals... now clear that there are different Skyports for different lights...

Great to know about the battery packs, that was the really the main question I had... although after looking at the manuals I find I just have more questions :)

I've discounted the 1200 models - I can't see myself needing to light a football ground anytime soon. I'm really now debating between the Style 300 RX and the Style 600 RX and possibly the BXRi 250 or 500. I see that the Style 300 RX offers a range of 9 to 300, the 600 RX a range of 18 to 600, with the BXRi 250 and 500 being 16-250 and 31-500 respectively and wondering what the implications of these are - does that mean I'll have greater flexibility in smaller spaces with the lower numbers, saying in a 3m x 3m space? As I don't have any modifiers at all, was planning to get a kit and then if I need another light to add it later. What are the pros and cons of getting a kit with higher power i.e 600/600 RX (or BXRi 500/500) and then add a 300 RX (BXRi 250) later, or vice versa?

Re flash duration according to the manual the 300 RX and the BXRi 250 appear to be faster - is that right?

As for BXRi versus RX, I see you get a 250 modelling light with the RX, just 100 with the BXRi - will this be noticeable (I've only ever used 250 in practice sessions).

The guide mentions the BXRi has 1/16 - 1/1 f stop and the RX has 6 F-stops 1/32 - 1/1. Trying to get my head around what that means in practice?

The recycling times seem pretty similar - not significantly different to affect a buying decision.

The main difference between RX and BXRi would appear to be that the skyport transceivers are built in the BXRi and with the RX you have the ability to control multiple lights from the computer with the software.

Has anyone used that Skyport software - and what do they think of it (I'm on a Mac).

Ta

Heather
Click to expand...


I have the Innovatronix Explorer XT SE and use it with 3 600 RX's.

It does not play nicely with more that 1 multi voltage light such as the BRXi's

The flash duration is quicker on the RX and the build quality better.

The RX Receiver need to be purchased separately along with the the usb transceiver for the computer.

The software works well but is not pretty. You can download it and put it into demo mode to try it out.

I can be more useful that you think to be able to go low with your lights
 
Hi Sylvester

Do you just use a multi socket adapter or extension to run 3 heads? There's 2 sockets on the XT SE isnt there?

Thanks

Danny
 
I own few Bowens lights and really want to change to Elin, simply because of the skyport (with power adjustment) even I have few Pocketwizard. It is just the light modifiers are too expensive for Elin made and hard to find the cheap alternatives.
 
maomao55 said:
I own few Bowens lights and really want to change to Elin, simply because of the skyport (with power adjustment) even I have few Pocketwizard. It is just the light modifiers are too expensive for Elin made and hard to find the cheap alternatives.
Click to expand...

Always difficult to move brand, but to be honest I felt Elinchrom modifiers were very reasonably priced - most available at discounted prices from the Flash Centre.

Paul
 
kiteninja said:
just to compare the bowens pro range have a duration of 1/2900s at full power & the standard gemini are 1/900s,

If your not too fussed about them being portable or usable on the field then have you looked at the Lencarta Elite pros just quoting the site here "Flash duration (t.5) 1/2000th"

Just throwing another option into the mix :).
Click to expand...

To get a true reading of flash duration you need to look at the T1 time. This is the actual speed the whole flash will fire, easy to do (roughly) with a T5 which means you just divide it by 3. That would make the true flash duration of the light you mention at 1/750th which is on the slower side of fast duration.
 
I bought the Elinchrom BX-Ri 500 2 head kit in the end. Just hope I don't regret it!

First problem is I can't seem to get the cover off the lights - not sure if I'm having a blonde moment or if there's a knack - I've turned the dial to unlock, but the covers won't come off and I'm scared to pull/push/twist too hard in case I break something! There are no instructions to show how to assemble anything - anybody able to tell? I can't find any videos on youtube showing this part of assembling the kit...
 
Just to add - why I went for this set... I couldn't afford the RX set, so much more expensive, and would have had to have bought Skyport as well which would have been an additional couple of hundred pounds. Liked the idea of having 2 softboxes with the kit. Hope I'll be able to use one of the Innovatronix battery packs in due course...
 
Hoodledoodle said:
I bought the Elinchrom BX-Ri 500 2 head kit in the end. Just hope I don't regret it!

First problem is I can't seem to get the cover off the lights - not sure if I'm having a blonde moment or if there's a knack - I've turned the dial to unlock, but the covers won't come off and I'm scared to pull/push/twist too hard in case I break something! There are no instructions to show how to assemble anything - anybody able to tell? I can't find any videos on youtube showing this part of assembling the kit...
Click to expand...

I have the DLite 4 and 4/2 kits and after sliding the blue lock key open I have to twist the cap ( protects the bulbs? ) anti clockwise. They can be a bit stiff when new.
 
Hoodledoodle said:
I bought the Elinchrom BX-Ri 500 2 head kit in the end. Just hope I don't regret it!

First problem is I can't seem to get the cover off the lights - not sure if I'm having a blonde moment or if there's a knack - I've turned the dial to unlock, but the covers won't come off and I'm scared to pull/push/twist too hard in case I break something! There are no instructions to show how to assemble anything - anybody able to tell? I can't find any videos on youtube showing this part of assembling the kit...
Click to expand...


Based on the pic's (only had a quick play so never changed reflectors) with the protective cap facing you, turn the locking ring to the unlock position, then push the cap in slightly and turn a few degrees anti-clockwise - bit like fitting a bayonet bulb - and it should just pull off.

I'm sure you'll really enjoy them in use TBH the BRXi's seem to offer the best value (specification/price) in the range.

Paul
 
Great buy! BXRIs are stunning bits of kit, my gf's brother just bought 4.

Twist the locking ring to unlock, then twist the protective cover attachment anti clockwise (it may be stiff but dont worry, it locks tight, which is a good thing as it stops your modifiers falling off). The only force you need to exert is to twist the protective cover, after that it should just come off, you do not need to pull the protective cover away from the head
 
Wow, there is a bit of a knack. I have very small hands so it was hard work - had to get help in the end... You'll be relieved to hear putting the softbox together was a doddle! Looking forrward to playing with them..

Thanks for all your help :)
 
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