White Backgrounds are Dead !!! - new image added

Maybe you should have posted it in the Fluffy Kitten section if you didn't want any C&C?
 
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DD, you have to know the rules inside out before you can break them ;)

Just bear that in mind.
Face is a bit soft? I recognised that it was to contrast the obscenely sharp fur hood straight away, and then when I read your post stating that I gave myself a nice pat on the back.

The people who are in the frame of mind that everything has to be technically 'correct' are also the people who don't see past the technicalities, so to speak.
I took this one in New York, and I love it, regardless of the fact that it is technically flawed in almost every aspect :p

(I won't steal the thread, just a diddy shot ;)
3177109000_bb597883cd_m.jpg
 
The people who are in the frame of mind that everything has to be technically 'correct' are also the people who don't see past the technicalities, so to speak.
I took this one in New York, and I love it, regardless of the fact that it is technically flawed in almost every aspect :p

(I won't steal the thread, just a diddy shot ;)
3177109000_bb597883cd_m.jpg

I disagree. Its not about 'not seeing past the technicalities' its about trying to justify a point of view rather than just saying "Don't like it".

Tbh, this thread is a perfect example of why I normally just can't be arsed with any form of feedback on this forum. People either get offended and storm off with their knickers in a twist, or they rubbish the people that are giving the feedback. Seriously, if people don't want feedback or just want smoke blowing up their arses, go to the fluffy kitten forum or stick to Flickr.
 
Tis a fair comment that you would have liked to see it sharper MD, not getting at you in particular here (y) but you just qualified my point for me there. looks soft, shame it's soft.:thinking: But it's SUPPOSED TO BE SOFT!

I think you will find that my first sentence was to aknowledge that MD is perfectly entitled to hold that opinion? I'll defend that right to the hilt.

What it has done in open a wider debate as to the technical vs artistic merits of an image and how we, as photographers sometimes place more emphasis on one over the other. Because we HAVE got the technical know how we almost instantly deconstruct an image technically before we even acknowledge the artistic side of the equation.

I think you will find that DD is taking the proverbial mickey. :D
 
Soz m8 - must be having a serious thicky moment...

What does 'From a photographers point of view they're just too generic' mean, simple English please :D

I mean that they're just very unimaginative. White background, f11, 100th/sec and fire away (I don't have exif reader installed here so I might be wrong, but you get the drift), which wasn't a dig at you. I was just saying it's a shame that people (clients) don't appreciate more artistic or individual portrait shots.


And, what's this all about...

It would just be nice if people could maybe appreciate the actual photography a little more; a smooth bokeh over a nice cityscape background or something like tht.

I don't get how that has much, if anything, to do with portraits and soft/sharp imaging :thinking::thinking::thinking:

DD - the thick one :(

Again, I'm saying it would be nice if clients, instead of wanting plain white backgrounds and cliched poses, wanted something a bit more artistic. Varied backgrounds and lighting and whatnot. Obviously you have to shoot what's going to sell, but my point was that it's a shame that the clients have no taste!.
 
And the short answer is, Because that's what people buy !!!

:( You gotta pay the bills I guess but I would HATE to be doing this just because its what people buy. Screw creativeness, being artistic, growing as a photographer, pushing my own boundaries and trying to better myself on a daily basis. I've made a name for myself, a real solid respected name across the world by doing what I want. I do this for myself. It just so happens that people like it.

As for the shots, I agree with benneh. White background, lights in the same position and settings for every shot. Same aperture, same sync speed. Same ISO. Same as yesterday, last week, last month, last year. Same same same same same. :(
 
well i shoot onto a w/bg because i want to .

i want to get it right. then imo when i have mastered this i can move on to another aspect of studio work..

but if it pays and it does then on and up..

this dissucion has come up many times and will again i'm sure..

w/bg boring same old same old..... but mr and mrs joe bloggs will nearly always go for this shot / style.

most people will not go for anything to creative as they would not understand whats been done or why ....

as togs all learning on here we feel we have to take every shot apart and find the reasons behind evry shot...

mr and mrs j bloggs just want a shot of there little fella that is nice and sharp and shows them in a good light.


all imho


md(y)
 
this a great thread and really interesting to me and although I'm not sure what i want to say is on topic for the OP, it's certainly sort of moved into that area - for the last 18 months or so i've been toying with photography really because a lot of the shots are not 'technically' correct or perfect, and some people look at them and go 'wuuhh?' and others go 'wow!'. This had made me really unconfident and sort of stopped me taking pictures because I was thinking they weren't right - and the ones I did take I wasn't comfortable posting. This picture I took (also in NYC :D) is one of those similar to those foodpoison describes...

NYGC.jpg


Technically it's rubbish (and you might think it's rubbish too, that's ok!) but so many people have said to me that they love it and think that it represents a real feel how busy and chaotic Grand Central station is - and that it's a bit different to the norm (also looks great on canvas :D). In terms of selling pics, you've obviously got to do what sells, but it's a shame that people are often so unwilling to accept that not everyone wants to do everything in exactly the same way, and just because it's different and technically 'incorrect' doesn't mean that it's any less creative, or impressive, or even worthy because of it. I've made the choice to take the photographs that I want to take and get the results that I want to see with my eyes, rather than with my brain (if that makes sense!) but I'm sure people will tell me that they aren't right (i'm always happy to try and improve technically, but not at the expense of what I want to achieve.) I want people to see what I saw at the time, and that's what I try to capture.

I also think that if you compare photography with old-time artists, then it wasn't always about what was in the picture, it was what the picture represents. A painting of a child painted in the same way as the photograph in the OP would have reprented a glow of goodness or something spiritual, and it's a shame that more people don't see what photographs represent rather than what they are.

Oops, that turned into a bit of a soapbox!

Hope that makes sense!
 
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What an odd thing to say. Also, they've got these things called paragraphs now :p

:razz:

see why your so popular pete..

your never wrong...



md;)
 
this a great thread and really interesting to me and although I'm not sure what i want to say is on topic for the OP, it's certainly sort of moved into that area - for the last 18 months or so i've been toying with photography really because a lot of the shots are not 'technically' correct or perfect, and some people look at them and go 'wuuhh?' and others go 'wow!'. This had made me really unconfident and sort of stopped me taking pictures because I was thinking they weren't right - and the ones I did take I wasn't comfortable posting. This picture I took (also in NYC :D) is one of those similar to those foodpoison describes...

NYGC.jpg


Technically it's rubbish (and you might think it's rubbish too, that's ok!) but so many people have said to me that they love it and think that it represents a real feel how busy and chaotic Grand Central station is - and that it's a bit different to the norm (also looks great on canvas :D). In terms of selling pics, you've obviously got to do what sells, but it's a shame that people are often so unwilling to accept that not everyone wants to do everything in exactly the same way, and just because it's different and technically 'incorrect' doesn't mean that it's any less creative, or impressive, or even worthy because of it. I've made the choice to take the photographs that I want to take and get the results that I want to see with my eyes, rather than with my brain (if that makes sense!) but I'm sure people will tell me that they aren't right (i'm always happy to try and improve technically, but not at the expense of what I want to achieve.)

I also think that if you compare photography with old-time artists, then it wasn't always about what was in the picture, it was what the picture represents. A painting of a child painted in the same way as the photograph would have reprented a glow of goodness or something spiritual, and it's a shame that more people don't see what photographs represent rather than what they are.

Oops, that turned into a bit of a soapbox!

Hope that makes sense!


Your name is Kitten, and you are a chick. As a default, I love that shot :D

Gary.
 
I mean that they're just very unimaginative. White background, f11, 100th/sec and fire away (I don't have exif reader installed here so I might be wrong, but you get the drift), which wasn't a dig at you. I was just saying it's a shame that people (clients) don't appreciate more artistic or individual portrait shots.




Again, I'm saying it would be nice if clients, instead of wanting plain white backgrounds and cliched poses, wanted something a bit more artistic. Varied backgrounds and lighting and whatnot. Obviously you have to shoot what's going to sell, but my point was that it's a shame that the clients have no taste!.



Cheers for that - got you know (y) and largely agree too

DD
 
And if someone wants something to hang in the hall then that's going to be it whether you, as creative photographers, like it or not.

I love to be creative with my togging, I'll happily use very limited depths of field and colour in my pics but you do have to recognise what people will hang on their wall and DD does do it very well, so personally I'd congratulate him on having a winning formula and when white backgrounds DO go out of fashion I'm sure he will be right there selling the parent the next big thing.
 
:( You gotta pay the bills I guess but I would HATE to be doing this just because its what people buy. Screw creativeness, being artistic, growing as a photographer, pushing my own boundaries and trying to better myself on a daily basis. I've made a name for myself, a real solid respected name across the world by doing what I want. I do this for myself. It just so happens that people like it.

As for the shots, I agree with benneh. White background, lights in the same position and settings for every shot. Same aperture, same sync speed. Same ISO. Same as yesterday, last week, last month, last year. Same same same same same. :(


That's a wonderful position to be in Pete, and one any of us married, kids, mortgaged types simply couldn't do

My first love is Landscapes, and I'm good at them too, but there's no way in deciding to be a Pro photographer I could have paid a bill let alone supported the family, etc.

So I chose another type of photography that I love too, kids (& weddings), which I'm also good at and which bring in money

I do actually have a plan to eventually move into shooting Landscapes & teaching too, but for now, if I want to be a tog I have to be into the social domestic market

I also therefore have to produce what that market wants, so yes - it's generally f9, 1/250, 100 ISO - but you know what...? Every Shoot is different, it's a totally people thing, and I actually like the little ***** whose mothers are despairing at them, because I can still produce the goods - amaze and delight the client, and make people smile - and it's that aspect of 'people' that stops it being boring and not all the same same same for me

Maybe I just love photography

Would I prefer to do my own thing as you do? Yep, so I guess I am a bit envious too

One day...

:)

DD
 
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and DD does do it very well, so personally I'd congratulate him on having a winning formula and when white backgrounds DO go out of fashion I'm sure he will be right there selling the parent the next big thing.


Awwww :love::love::love:

:LOL:

DD
 
:( You gotta pay the bills I guess but I would HATE to be doing this just because its what people buy. Screw creativeness, being artistic, growing as a photographer, pushing my own boundaries and trying to better myself on a daily basis. I've made a name for myself, a real solid respected name across the world by doing what I want. I do this for myself. It just so happens that people like it.

That's an interesting comment Pete. I'm one (of the many i reckon) who does like your pictures, but if people widely DIDN'T like them, or more importantly if your customers didn't like (and therefore buy) them would you really not change they way you take/PP your pics?

I don't know you so maybe you wouldn't, but if photography was my living or paid hobby I'd certainly let what the customers want influence my style.

Please don't take this as a criticism - i'm genuinely interested in different people's strength of commitment in relation to their "style" against others' opinions.

Dave.
 
I would say that theres a difference between doing one style of photography day in and day out and knowing what shots you take will sell. I would imagine that I could be a half decent wedding photographer. Good money. I've had people ask me to shoot their wedding despite not marketing my self that way. They like my street / docu work and thats the style they want for their wedding. They want real photos not staged. I know theres a market for that. I could go for it if I simply wanted to make money, but I don't. I want to make money doing what I love.
 
Im new to shooting other peoples kids, but the few that I have done I've show them some samples and everyone really likes one of my daughter with a deep orange background it always gets a comment more than the ones that I show them on white.
But guess what they want to shoot against white. shame really but what can you do.

its also a reason im looking for models for TFCD work as they will be more open to creative ideas
 
I would say that theres a difference between doing one style of photography day in and day out and knowing what shots you take will sell. I would imagine that I could be a half decent wedding photographer. Good money. I've had people ask me to shoot their wedding despite not marketing my self that way. They like my street / docu work and thats the style they want for their wedding. They want real photos not staged. I know theres a market for that. I could go for it if I simply wanted to make money, but I don't. I want to make money doing what I love.


Perhaps the biggest difference for most is between the 'want' and the 'need' - I'm sure you have your level of need for money, but if that's met now then of course you can shoot whatever takes you so long as that minimum level is met

Even now I couldn't stop shooting for the money as the love for Landscapes alone just wouldn't pay enough

What's a wonderful aside for me is that I actually do enjoy Shooting Weddings & kids too, so it's still not a 'job' as such - I'm happy anyway

:)

DD
 
Wish I was shooting studio portraits yesterday, instead of freezing my nutzz off rolling down a stony river bank in a pair of trainers, catching my death for a poxy head office poster.....worth about....3p.
I did get to shoot some film though besides that so...I dunno, sometimes ya gotta take the rough with the smooth to do what you want
 
Wish I was shooting studio portraits yesterday, instead of freezing my nutzz off rolling down a stony river bank in a pair of trainers, catching my death for a poxy head office poster.....worth about....3p.
I did get to shoot some film though besides that so...I dunno, sometimes ya gotta take the rough with the smooth to do what you want


Hey Studio portraits can be tough too you know :(

Just the other day I had to take my jumper off due to the heat in there :shake:

What with that and the ever present danger of the phone going off :eek:

Pray tell though... what sort of image is worth 3p ???

:D

DD
 
can i make a suggestion, when you post a photo for comments, would it be a good idea to make a brief note about what processing you have done? this will avoid the inevitable 'its soft' comments!
 
can i make a suggestion, when you post a photo for comments, would it be a good idea to make a brief note about what processing you have done? this will avoid the inevitable 'its soft' comments!

Good point - but I didn't think it was 'inevitable' either - nor for that matter did I especially see it as 'soft' - the central part of this image is simply not sharpened and then diffuse glow was added to the whole image

I also didn't mind any of the debate that followed, and I think we had at least 3 lines of thought going on at some point too discussing how we critique images in general - which could be useful

Have we had a generalised 'How to critique an image' thread before???

If not, would it be useful for a general debate to start one based on my judging images under the Yorkshire Photographic Union's remit for such???

Not saying it's right at all - just a potentially good starting point to leap off of

:shrug:

DD
 
changed my mind i like it and it looks fine to me..


md(y)
 
(y)
Hmmm... now why don't I believe you :cautious:

Sarky sod

:LOL:

DD

lol :LOL:

i new you would understand....


i have been st here all night looking and refreshing pages...

agreeing and lol

even pmsl a few times.

but iv'e not commented once... well done me....


md(y)

ps how does the shot look in print /canvass


:wave:
 
can i make a suggestion, when you post a photo for comments, would it be a good idea to make a brief note about what processing you have done? this will avoid the inevitable 'its soft' comments!

Can I make a suggestion?

When critique is offered or responded to by people, why not do it without resorting to childish frikkin' name calling or arguing ffs!

Talk Photography, sponsored by Early Learning Center.

Sick of it.
 
Talk Photography, sponsored by Early Learning Center.

Sick of it.

Can I have some of them wooden blocks then, I like those, strangely symmetrical and I can play all day with composition and colour. :clap::clap:

Ok so I'm taking the mick but there are far more important things in the world and if a few people happen to disagree on a thread on a photography forum then.................................it's really no big deal. :)
 
Good point - but I didn't think it was 'inevitable' either - nor for that matter did I especially see it as 'soft' - the central part of this image is simply not sharpened and then diffuse glow was added to the whole image

I also didn't mind any of the debate that followed, and I think we had at least 3 lines of thought going on at some point too discussing how we critique images in general - which could be useful

Have we had a generalised 'How to critique an image' thread before???

If not, would it be useful for a general debate to start one based on my judging images under the Yorkshire Photographic Union's remit for such???

Not saying it's right at all - just a potentially good starting point to leap off of

:shrug:

DD

you know what the image is supposed to look like, to anyone who doesnt, they will misinterpret your intention. It looks soft to me, but i wasnt sure if it was deliberate, after reading through i saw that it was, and so ignored that part and looked at the image as a whole

You cant tell people how to critique as each person will see a different thing, there is a forum etiquette guide, we think that is as close as it needs to be to a How To on critique.
 
You cant tell people how to critique as each person will see a different thing,


I love you! :love::love::love:
I'm going to print that off and take it to our camera club! [I'm not being sarcastic btw]

A lot of clubs follow rules similar to the YPU organisation that Dave mentioned. And all Yorkshire clubs have to stick to specifics and guidelines on how to critique images.
 
you know what the image is supposed to look like, to anyone who doesnt, they will misinterpret your intention. It looks soft to me, but i wasnt sure if it was deliberate, after reading through i saw that it was, and so ignored that part and looked at the image as a whole

You cant tell people how to critique as each person will see a different thing, there is a forum etiquette guide, we think that is as close as it needs to be to a How To on critique.

Didn't mean to tell peeps how to crit - just how judges crit for competitions - so if any joins a camera club they'd know what to expect; same with applying to SWPP, BIPP, MPA, RPS etc.

No worries :)

DD
 
Maybe not to you.

Well you are the one swearing and throwing your teddy out your pram, I'd suggest most politely to calm down and don't get so worked up.

I'm off to read my SWPP magazine and go to bed.
 
Night to you too, sleep tight as my mum used to say :)
 
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