"Why a Mechanical Film Camera in a Digital Age?"

I find it tough to quantify the value of using a mechanical camera, the user experience and tactile nature seem like an interesting departure from a digital experience, but no more than that.
In truth, I don't care that much, its about the medium, its about film, its about what comes out of the thing and less about the experience of using it.
He's wittering on there about mech cameras, obsoletion and digital sharp obsession as though the output of a mech camera is coincidental and not entirely the point.
I dunno, it just seems odd, but what do I know.
 
The human attachment to tools is a very interesting subject.

Marketing BS, full of logical fallacy, questionable assertions and hyperbole is also very interesting.

Just take pictures.
 
joxby said:
I find it tough to quantify the value of using a mechanical camera, the user experience and tactile nature seem like an interesting departure from a digital experience, but no more than that.
In truth, I don't care that much, its about the medium, its about film, its about what comes out of the thing and less about the experience of using it.
He's wittering on there about mech cameras, obsoletion and digital sharp obsession as though the output of a mech camera is coincidental and not entirely the point.
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Pretty much exactly my thoughts as well, I couldn't help feeling the guy's wittering had very little to do with making images. That said I really don't get these people who write about how amazing film is, or how amazing manual cameras are, or how much better an experience film is than digital. Choose whatever format and whatever camera you want for whatever you want to do; digital, analogue, electronic, manual - who the hell cares? Just do whatever's right for you.
 
Jesus. Let's all stop thinking and just point and click, eh?

/thread indeed. I'll know better next time.
 
I find it interesting. I like to try, at least, to think about my motivations for taking photographs, my motivations for taking film photographs, my motivations for preferring mechanical to digital and what that says about me, about why I want to use a camera that looks good and isn't merely a light-tight box. I want to try to think about what I'm doing, and I think this article said some things very well about these subjects, and made me think.

But, no, no "wittering". "Just take pictures". "Use whatever tool you want". "/thread". Let's not talk about it.

Point taken.
 
PMN said:
Pretty much exactly my thoughts as well, I couldn't help feeling the guy's wittering had very little to do with making images. That said I really don't get these people who write about how amazing film is, or how amazing manual cameras are, or how much better an experience film is than digital. Choose whatever format and whatever camera you want for whatever you want to do; digital, analogue, electronic, manual - who the hell cares? Just do whatever's right for you.
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I guess articles such as these are written in response to the crushing prevalence of the "you must use the latest digital gizmo" message. In the digital message the image is irreverent just the process and need for it to be sharp. In woodworking I'm considered a Neanderthal I enjoy using chisel and planes and making dovetails in my boxes and furniture, compare with the Normite who uses powertools to open a beer bottle.

So yes it may be about the final image, or box or chair but there a pleasure to be derived from the process, the tool or the beer when its done.


http://woodcanuck.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/so-you-want-to-be-a-woodworker/
 
steveo_mcg said:
I guess articles such as these are written in response to the crushing prevalence of the "you must use the latest digital gizmo" message.
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Sure, but that makes them every bit as bad/ignorant/stupid as what they're replying to. Surely the best way to deal with the silly idea that you need the latest digital camera to get the best results is to ignore it, not retaliate with something equally stupid!
 
PMN said:
Sure, but that makes them every bit as bad/ignorant/stupid as what they're replying to. Surely the best way to deal with the silly idea that you need the latest digital camera to get the best results is to ignore it, not retaliate with something equally stupid!
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I think if the internet teaches us anything its that people are not great at ignoring things which disagree with our POV.

He says continuing the discussion :)
 
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steveo_mcg said:
I think if the internet teaches us anything its that people are not great at ignoring things which disagree with our POV.

He says continuing the discussion :)
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:)

Indeed we're not and probably never will be but there are still different ways of responding. It does make me giggle sometimes at just how many hardcore film advocates are every bit as tunnel-visioned and ignorant as their digital counterparts they spend so much time criticising. :)
 
Like everything there are many ways to achieve the same end. Photography is no different, there are times when I just want to point and shoot and run off a roll of film without thinking too much about the why, wherefore, who, what, where or when but there are other times when I'll spend at least a few seconds thing about what I'm doing before I press the shutter, I like to think those are the moments when I'm making art :D
 
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I quite liked the article, and thought it said some pretty sensible things that crystallised some of my own thoughts, but felt its language was annoyingly pretentious and it was about 4 times as long as it could have been, with greater effect.

That said, and echoing Paul, I'll carry on using my nearly-only-mechanical cameras most of the time, and my non-DSLR digi tool when appropriate!
 
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ChrisR said:
but felt its language was annoyingly pretentious and it was about 4 times as long as it could have been, with greater effect.
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Again, I thought exactly the same! In fact it took me a couple of attempts to read a few bits of it just to try see past the pretentiousness and understand what he was actually trying to say.
 
PMN said:
:)

It does make me giggle sometimes at just how many hardcore film advocates are every bit as tunnel-visioned and ignorant as their digital counterparts they spend so much time criticising. :)
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Well not here IMO as we are all very open minded, and there can't be many members who don't have a digital camera of some sort and realise how convenient it is at times. Sure we can argue about the look of film or tones or use of grain or whatever in digi ver film debates, but for non pros it all boils down to each person wanting to use what they like or turns them on.......to take pictures.
 
excalibur2 said:
Well not here IMO as we are all very open minded, and there can't be many members who don't have a digital camera of some sort and realise how convenient it is at times. Sure we can argue about the look of film or tones or use of grain or whatever in digi ver film debates, but for non pros it all boils down to each person wanting to use what they like or turns them on.......to take pictures.
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I don't mean here, Brian. :)
 
PMN said:
I don't mean here, Brian. :)
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No but post this same conversation on the general Talk Photography thread and watch the result descend in to trolling; Leica are overpriced, films dead, films the one true, no one needs a LF camera any more, followed swiftly into a debate about wedding photography being undercut, cannon vs nikkon, is photography art leading inevitably into mod intervention.... Actually I'm tempted :D
 
steveo_mcg said:
No but post this same conversation on the general Talk Photography thread and watch the result descend in to trolling; Leica are overpriced, films dead, films the one true, no one needs a LF camera any more, followed swiftly into a debate about wedding photography being undercut, cannon vs nikkon, is photography art leading inevitably into mod intervention.... Actually I'm tempted :D
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Sounds fun if you want to kill time and probably some truth in what some are saying.... if they don't go over the top. :D
 
excalibur2 said:
Sounds fun if you want to kill time and probably some truth in what some are saying.... if they don't go over the top. :D
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Possibly but things tend to go OTT very quickly mainly because everyone is Right and refuses to consider an alternate pov.

Thats Right with a capital R! :)
 
We cant all be right, therefore as a service to others I offer to be right all the time freeing all others to be wrong when I feel like it.

Oh and BTW I've just got my first DSLR and following the placing of badly worded advert in my local free paper, offering my services at a very reasonable (cheap) rate, I have been booked to do a wedding next weekend, what lens should I use?
 
RaglanSurf said:
We cant all be right, therefore as a service to others I offer to be right all the time freeing all others to be wrong when I feel like it.

Oh and BTW I've just got my first DSLR and following the placing of badly worded advert in my local free paper, offering my services at a very reasonable (cheap) rate, I have been booked to do a wedding next weekend, what lens should I use?
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I've got an Oly Trip you can borrow, its what all the pros used to use, well one, well in an advert...
 
steveo_mcg said:
Possibly but things tend to go OTT very quickly mainly because everyone is Right and refuses to consider an alternate pov.

Thats Right with a capital R! :)
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Probably means "what's right for me, full stop"........but you can form an opinion that affects you only, as my son parked his Canon 350d (as he doesn't use it anymore and prefers his mobile phone), well I've never used a DSLr before and thought that's handy as I can test all my M42 lenses and do large crops to compare them. So bought a M42\EOS adapter....well with the small viewfinder and difficulty of focusing at times I didn't enjoy it one bit, so it put me off Canon DSLrs which is unfair and narrow minded as a digital guy could have produced some great shots with this camera.
 
This is the problem though, too many people are so wrapped up in what's best for them that they totally miss the point that others think differently. Whenever someone says what they think is best, their instinct is to immediately state their own preference with little consideration of the fact the other person's needs and goals may be completely different to their own.

It's personal, it's whatever works best for your own needs. :)
 
RaglanSurf said:
We cant all be right, therefore as a service to others I offer to be right all the time freeing all others to be wrong when I feel like it.
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I would agree with you, Nick, but that'd mean I was wrong, wouldn't it?
 
The best use of a mechanical film camera is to embarass my children when they are out with me. I can't possibly do that with a modern camera!


Steve.
 
I reserve the right to be right all right....all the time at this time... unless The CMS says otherwise... Sorry dear.

Actually the article was interesting and a bit up its own arris, but I can't disagree with the premise that companies (not just camera companies) have far more built in obselescence in their products than they used to. Is this because they know we have far more disposable income nowadays? Possibly.
I shall just carry on shooting what I want with whatever camera/format I like when I like, there isn't any real rhyme or reason behind it, just sometimes I feel digital, sometimes filmic, sometimes 35mm, sometimes 120.
I just like taking photographs.
 
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The word on the street, is that there is a slight knee jerk reaction going down, against what is seen as digital sharpness and perfection. I agree with that statement - albums of glossy, heavily edited, sharp, colourful "perfect" images can be a turn off, once you've seen enough of it. Then some of us start to crave for the technically imperfect, and yet pleasing photographs of the great masters of the past. A trend, no doubt, being incorporated by Iphone filters, and Lightroom plugins.

I'd guess that for the time being, it's good for film manufacturers, therefore good for high street prices.
 
I've sometimes written some stuff about why I prefer using old film cameras to modern digi ones, which I intended to post somewhere or other on the internet. It was useful to help with my own thinking on the matter, but on reflection decided that the world is better off without some of these inane ramblings being published. If I was taking photos for a living, I doubt I'd be messing about with Rolleicords and old Nikons, but given that it's what I do for fun, I have the luxury of choosing to use them.

The last couple of days have given me a great opportunity to test this choice....I've just been to that London place for work for a couple of days, attending an event with my company, and wanted to take photos of our guests, customers and colleagues, for which purpose I brought the company's Canon 5Dii, happily snapping away and getting some excellent beautifully exposed shots, sharp as a witch's tit, as you would expect. I then had a couple of hours spare before catching the train home, and went out into the streets with a rucksack containing said Canon, as well as my Fuji GW690. Thought about using the opportunity to try out the Canon for some fun stuff, for about a second, and instead burned through three rolls of Tri-X. Can't really explain why, but I think my photographic choices have been satisfyingly re-affirmed.
 
Steve Smith said:
You posted something in a forum. You should expect people to comment on it and that some of those comments will not agree with your thoughts.


Steve.
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I have absolutely no problem with being disagreed with. That's not what happened. The responses were dismissive of the idea of even discussing it. Like I said, point taken.
 
Well maybe I'm the only member that takes 99.9 % shots on film and my thinking is:- why go digital when with what I use a camera for, film is all I need. Maybe if I took up capturing flying insects or experimenting I would think different......but in saying that I'm interested in Panos and wouldn't mind an A7\A7r for these type of shots but is it worth spending the money just for that h'mm my wallet is holding me back.
 
abdoujaparov said:
I have absolutely no problem with being disagreed with. That's not what happened. The responses were dismissive of the idea of even discussing it. Like I said, point taken.
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If that article struck a chord with you then that's absolutely fine, It's not for anyone else to tell you what you should and shouldn't like. Personally I'm dismissive of anything in any artistic area that has so little willingness to accept certain ways of working may not be for everyone and I have every right to be dismissive of such things. No-one's telling you you're wrong for liking that article so don't get in a huff when people don't identify with it in the same way as you.
 
abdoujaparov said:
I have absolutely no problem with being disagreed with. That's not what happened. The responses were dismissive of the idea of even discussing it. Like I said, point taken.
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I'm not dismissive of the idea, although I can see why my response might come across that way. It's the article itself I'm dismissive of.

I use a wide range of cameras, from totally mechanical to DSLR. I know all about the pleasures of using a mechanical camera and am happy to discuss it.

I don't need pretentious rhetoric.
 
PMN said:
If that article struck a chord with you then that's absolutely fine, It's not for anyone else to tell you what you should and shouldn't like. Personally I'm dismissive of anything in any artistic area that has so little willingness to accept certain ways of working may not be for everyone and I have every right to be dismissive of such things. No-one's telling you you're wrong for liking that article so don't get in a huff when people don't identify with it in the same way as you.
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Well it seems the man who wrote the article is a die hard film user and am glad these sort of people are around, but can't relate to it as to me a camera is just a tool and don't mind what camera I use (but do have some favourites) and small things I disagree with e.g. "there is something satisfying, from a bodily perspective, of winding on the film by hand" ......Well I prefer an auto wind on as in many quick shots forget to wind the film on to the next frame and the times I had group of people saying cheese and then tell them "wait a second I forgot to wind the film on when the shutter doesn't fire" :rolleyes:
 
I was browsing thru' all the forum and saw "camera clubs" and it had my nearest one, well by looking at the photos on their site, I'd get an odd look turning up with my T70...so that could be an advantage why use digital ;) It would be all boring for me talking about digital compared to the old days where photographers in the club would develop and print their shots and lots to talk about on what they used and equipment etc


http://thephotographicangle.co.uk/b...-chalfonts--gerrards-cross-camera-club-p-115/
 
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