Why are people buying electric cars?

[Delphin]

If you live in a house you inherited and so haven't paid for it, you still pay the Community Charge every year, towards the costs of the services provided to every householder.

EV owners pay the standard rate road fund licence every year towards the costs of our roads.

Electric, zero or low emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025
You’ll pay £10 for the first year. After that, you’ll pay the standard rate of £200.

Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2025
You’ll pay the standard rate of £200.

Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001 and 31 March 2017
You’ll pay the standard rate of £20.

If there is no gas your inherited house you don't pay a gas bill.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

EV owner pay the standard rate road fund licence every year towards the costs of our roads.

However, because they don't pay the fuel duty, they are not paying their full share towards the costs of our roads.

Electric, zero or low emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025
You’ll pay £10 for the first year. After that, you’ll pay the standard rate of £200.

...so why should that not apply to every vehicle: £10 for the first year and £200 per year thereafter?

If there is no gas your inherited house you don't pay a gas bill.

But you do pay the community charge.

A bloke called Stephen Covey made a comment on this sort of double think: "The more people rationalize cheating, the more it becomes a culture of dishonesty. And that can become a vicious, downward cycle. Because suddenly, if everyone else is cheating, you feel a need to cheat, too." There's nothing wrong with the government supporting the use of electric cars but everything wrong with them letting those wealthy enough to charge at home, to do so without paying fuel duty.

 

[cambsno]

To be fair, Mr Bump is also a stuck record... and a baiter. But on the subject at hand, I certainly don't see EV home charging as cheating, more that ICE have long been exploited. But it can be guranteed that the Government will be working overtime trying to find a way to tax the life out of home charging!



Aye, ya big tax dodger!

On a serious note, VAT is generally considered a regressive tax, so I would certainly hope it's not charged on certain products. Personally, I see it as a stealth tax because originally Purchase Tax was only supposed to be for luxury items, but now it's pretty much a general consumption tax and hurts poorer people more as a share of their income.

If people do think that, then people driving a 1l car that does 60mpg is cheating v a 4l car doing 18mpg

 

[cambsno]

However, because they don't pay the fuel duty, they are not paying their full share towards the costs of our roads.

...so why should that not apply to every vehicle: £10 for the first year and £200 per year thereafter?

But you do pay the community charge.

A bloke called Stephen Covey made a comment on this sort of double think: "The more people rationalize cheating, the more it becomes a culture of dishonesty. And that can become a vicious, downward cycle. Because suddenly, if everyone else is cheating, you feel a need to cheat, too." There's nothing wrong with the government supporting the use of electric cars but everything wrong with them letting those wealthy enough to charge at home, to do so without paying fuel duty.

And I am paying MORE than I should for my council tax. Next door as 2 adults, I am a sole adult but only get 25% off. Really it should be 50%. So I am overpaying for council tax while underpaying for cars!

And this is why I don't see it as cheating. Why should I work when someone who is capable of working doesn't because of "anxiety". You could have had a couple who earn 48k each (96k) and get FULL child benefit, when I could earn 60k and wife 10k (70k) and get NOT child benefit (using old numbers think they have changed). I also think the freezing of income tax bands is cheating by government (especially as pensioners get the triple lock). I know I will get screwed somewhere, so will take advantage when i can do the screwing.

Treat me fairly and I will be fair. Previous workplace had full flexible working - do your job and no issues if you turn up at 930 and leave 430. Compared to a place that would give you a hard time leaving at 4.50. Guess which one I was most productive at!

 

[cambsno]

And, if anyone here has an ISA they are cheating too - avoiding paying tax on savings when you could have a normal savings account and pay tax on that! Its simply government incentivising / bribing behaviour!

 

[Delphin]

So if I buy petrol for my lawnmower am I contributing to the roads, no I'm just pay a tax on a fuel.

The tax is on the fuel not what that fuel is used for, be that cars, lawnmowers, canal boats, hovercraft, whatever. That tax goes into the same pot as all the other taxes, (I don't need a smug git saying such and such tax is ringfenced, we all get the point)

By not drinking beer and avoiding alcohol duty, doesn't mean someone is selfishly not funding pothole repair.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

So if I buy petrol for my lawnmower am I contributing to the roads, no I'm just pay a tax on a fuel.

Now we're getting into the vexed question of hypothecation. That will run and run.

 

[cambsno]

So if I buy petrol for my lawnmower am I contributing to the roads, no I'm just pay a tax on a fuel.

The tax is on the fuel not what that fuel is used for, be that cars, lawnmowers, canal boats, hovercraft, whatever. That tax goes into the same pot as all the other taxes, (I don't need a smug git saying such and such tax is ringfenced, we all get the point)

By not drinking beer and avoiding alcohol duty, doesn't mean someone is selfishly not funding pothole repair.

I have an electric mower... am I cheating you and am I to blame for the potholes???

 

[cambsno]

So if I buy petrol for my lawnmower am I contributing to the roads, no I'm just pay a tax on a fuel.

The tax is on the fuel not what that fuel is used for, be that cars, lawnmowers, canal boats, hovercraft, whatever. That tax goes into the same pot as all the other taxes, (I don't need a smug git saying such and such tax is ringfenced, we all get the point)

By not drinking beer and avoiding alcohol duty, doesn't mean someone is selfishly not funding pothole repair.

I feel better, I may be cheating the government by having an EV but make up for it paying tax in a different form down my local!!

 

[Clive K]

And I am paying MORE than I should for my council tax. Next door as 2 adults, I am a sole adult but only get 25% off. Really it should be 50%. So I am overpaying for council tax while underpaying for cars!

And this is why I don't see it as cheating. Why should I work when someone who is capable of working doesn't because of "anxiety". You could have had a couple who earn 48k each (96k) and get FULL child benefit, when I could earn 60k and wife 10k (70k) and get NOT child benefit (using old numbers think they have changed). I also think the freezing of income tax bands is cheating by government (especially as pensioners get the triple lock). I know I will get screwed somewhere, so will take advantage when i can do the screwing.

Treat me fairly and I will be fair. Previous workplace had full flexible working - do your job and no issues if you turn up at 930 and leave 430. Compared to a place that would give you a hard time leaving at 4.50. Guess which one I was most productive at!

Given the time that you spend on here probably none of them

 

[taxboy]

And thy who home charges will soon contribute nothing to the public purse when it comes to the "fuel" for their vehicle due to the impending 0% VAT rate.

Not strictly true if you consider the wider field of taxation; assuming the power generators and supply companies are making profits there will be an increase in Corporation Tax on the additional electricity consumed by home charging

 

[lindsay]

(a) the 0% rate is only temporary I believe;
(b) not if they home charge from solar power only.

I've returned to this thread because the latest surges in oil prices are having a punitive effect on diesel fuel, which both of my vehicles run on. I only do about 6-7k miles a year on them combined, so it's not hurting that much, but combined with the oil for heating, it's making me think again. The equation for me is:
Motor fuel for my diesel car per year: £17,,500 plus servicing of a diesel ICE car that is already 7 years old - say £10k over 10 years
Cost of new EV: £45k less trade in of my 7 year old Mazda 6 (say £12k as low mileage and top spec) so £33k

It looks like a no-brainer that I ought to consider the EV now. The equation produces a much closer figure than at the lower fuel prices pre-Trump. My solar setup with batteries produces lots of juice most of the time.

I'm looking at the Mazda CX6e or CX80

**Edited, my original figures were way out

 

[Steep]

we actually walked to Dewsbury my local town the other day to screwfix , it was a lovely sunny day and we took the back paths.
had a beer there and jumped on the train back, lately our car just gathers dust in the garage.

That's just unforgivable!

 

[taxboy]

(a) the 0% rate is only temporary I believe;
(b) not if they home charge from solar power only.

I've returned to this thread because the latest surges in oil prices are having a punitive effect on diesel fuel, which both of my vehicles run on. I only do about 6-7k miles a year on them combined, so it's not hurting that much, but combined with the oil for heating, it's making me think again. The equation for me is:
Motor fuel for my diesel car per year: £17,,500 plus servicing of a diesel ICE car that is already 7 years old - say £10k over 10 years
Cost of new EV: £45k less trade in of my 7 year old Mazda 6 (say £12k as low mileage and top spec) so £33k

It looks like a no-brainer that I ought to consider the EV now. The equation produces a much closer figure than at the lower fuel prices pre-Trump. My solar setup with batteries produces lots of juice most of the time.

I'm looking at the Mazda CX6e or CX80

It may not suit your own personal financial requirements but have you considered leasing ? A CX6e would probably be about £350 per month and give you the chance to try out an EV without the large capital investment up front should it not suit. The interest from the £33k could be used to further offset the lease payments. Previously I had always been a car owner - keeping for a long period having purchased the dealers ex demonstrator. However given the newness of the technology and the uncertainty around depreciation I went lease for the first time

 

[gman]

If people do think that, then people driving a 1l car that does 60mpg is cheating v a 4l car doing 18mpg

It's not quite the same because the two cars will most likely be significantly different from each other, so sacrifices are most likely being made with size, performance etc. Whereas with an EV, it doesn't matter if it's a shopping trolley or a massive 7 seater that can do 0-60mph in under 6 seconds, there's still no tax on the "fuel".

 

[gman]

And, if anyone here has an ISA they are cheating too - avoiding paying tax on savings when you could have a normal savings account and pay tax on that! Its simply government incentivising / bribing behaviour!

ISA's are available to all UK residents, home charging EV's isn't.

 

[lindsay]

I have considered the lease option - I've done it before. I abhor the idea of effectively renting a car at this stage of life though when income in the future is unpredictable (I'm about to turn 70). I want to leverage the fact that I'm still working and getting a good income, but will likely retire within the next couple of years.

 

[gman]

Not strictly true if you consider the wider field of taxation; assuming the power generators and supply companies are making profits there will be an increase in Corporation Tax on the additional electricity consumed by home charging

That's getting silly, because ICE could argue about the tax generated by the refineries, the massive tax on oil companies, the tax contributed by those working in the petrol stations and the CT those companies pay etc.

You aren't directly contributing the tax, which is the subject of debate. It doesn't bother me btw, I'm just discussing it.

 

[gman]

(a) the 0% rate is only temporary I believe;
(b) not if they home charge from solar power only.

It is still only 5% standard though, Where's our reduction in fuel duty or VAT on petrol/diesel?! lol

Re. solar, I was going to raise this earlier and comment that they still have to pay a fair chunk of VAT on the panels, batteries and installation costs? Not sure how comparable that would be though.

 

[gman]

I've returned to this thread because the latest surges in oil prices are having a punitive effect on diesel fuel, which both of my vehicles run on. I only do about 6-7k miles a year on them combined, so it's not hurting that much, but combined with the oil for heating, it's making me think again. The equation for me is:
Motor fuel for my diesel car per year: £17,,500 plus servicing of a diesel ICE car that is already 7 years old - say £10k over 10 years
Cost of new EV: £45k less trade in of my 7 year old Mazda 6 (say £12k as low mileage and top spec) so £33k

It looks like a no-brainer that I ought to consider the EV now. The equation produces a much closer figure than at the lower fuel prices pre-Trump. My solar setup with batteries produces lots of juice most of the time.

I'm looking at the Mazda CX6e or CX80

**Edited, my original figures were way out

My next car will probably be either an EV or a PHEV as I believe the latter are now quite different from the original PHEVs, although I've not looked up how yet but it was mentioned when I was looking at the Cherry Tiggo 9 PHEV. That's a lot of car for the money and has a built in dashcam as standard apparently.

However, I'm sure I recently read that the Chinese have just had some breakthrough with battery tech and massive range will soon be coming. Hopefully that will be the case by the time I come to change and if I can get a home charger that can charge to 80% within an hour or so, then I can probably get away with a cable across the pavement for that time. I've got a neighbour who drags his cable across the pavement and I don't believe it's been a major issue (might just be lucky so far).

 

[woof woof]

However, I'm sure I recently read that the Chinese have just had some breakthrough with battery tech and massive range will soon be coming.

I'm hopeful about Toyota's solid state tech. That to me could be a real game changer.

 

[Marc]

If you live in a house you inherited and so haven't paid for it, you still pay the Community Charge every year, towards the costs of the services provided to every householder.

False equivalence. If I have an EV, I don't use fuel, therefore, I don't buy fuel, therefore I don't pay tax on fuel. If I don't buy a vatable product, should I still have to pay vat?

That's an opinion, which is open to discussion, as I've just pointed out.

It's literally the definition of cheating

The theory is that fuel duty pays for the upkeep of the roads. We both know that's a myth but it's a myth that ought to apply to every road user.

So it's a myth then. ie, not true. Moving on

Please point out where I've suggested that.

I never said you suggested it.

You are trying to play the wrong card. My wife is also disabled. By your reasoning I shouldn't pay fuel duty for trips when she is in the car but it doesn't work like that. The fuel duty, like the Community Charge, is applicable to every car driver. The Conservative Party, in their usual divisive way, decided that those wealthy enough to buy an electric car should be allowed to avoid this obligation. That's not fair, in my opinion.

Not playing any cards.

 

[woof woof]

You are trying to play the wrong card. My wife is also disabled. By your reasoning I shouldn't pay fuel duty for trips when she is in the car but it doesn't work like that. The fuel duty, like the Community Charge, is applicable to every car driver. The Conservative Party, in their usual divisive way, decided that those wealthy enough to buy an electric car should be allowed to avoid this obligation. That's not fair, in my opinion.

Eh? One thing I really don't like is wealth envy but other than that, some used electric cars are cheaper to buy than the same year ICE car.

 

[Delphin]

My next car will probably be either an EV or a PHEV as I believe the latter are now quite different from the original PHEVs, although I've not looked up how yet but it was mentioned when I was looking at the Cherry Tiggo 9 PHEV. That's a lot of car for the money and has a built in dashcam as standard apparently.

However, I'm sure I recently read that the Chinese have just had some breakthrough with battery tech and massive range will soon be coming. Hopefully that will be the case by the time I come to change and if I can get a home charger that can charge to 80% within an hour or so, then I can probably get away with a cable across the pavement for that time. I've got a neighbour who drags his cable across the pavement and I don't believe it's been a major issue (might just be lucky so far).

BYD and launching their new 1,000kW superfast charging cars (only expensive subbrand Denza to start with in the UK)

BYD reckons the Super e power system can deliver almost 250 miles' of charge in only five minutes, they are going to build a country wide charging network (like tesla supercharges but much much faster) The new charges deliver power so quickly the normal grid can't cope, so their charging stations will store the power in a large battery that is trickle charged from the grid when not in use.


In my village there are a few people who've cut a small "trench" across the pavement , that is covered with a removable flush rubber cap (I really should get a photo)

 

[taxboy]

That's getting silly, because ICE could argue about the tax generated by the refineries, the massive tax on oil companies, the tax contributed by those working in the petrol stations and the CT those companies pay etc.

You aren't directly contributing the tax, which is the subject of debate. It doesn't bother me btw, I'm just discussing it.

It was a bit of a throwaway comment but in the area of taxation there's seldom black or white. It's absolutely correct to say I won't be paying VAT when I charge my EV in the near future and obviously I don't pay excise duty as with an ICE vehicle but the total tax pot is made up of a huge variety of areas with reliefs, concessions etc to both supplier and consumer.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Not playing any cards.

There is little point in our discussing this further, as we are clearly not going to agree.

 

[Mr Bump]

The VAT reduction on leccy is a real win for EV owners.

chapeau

 

[LeeRatters]

It may not suit your own personal financial requirements but have you considered leasing ? A CX6e would probably be about £350 per month and give you the chance to try out an EV without the large capital investment up front should it not suit. The interest from the £33k could be used to further offset the lease payments. Previously I had always been a car owner - keeping for a long period having purchased the dealers ex demonstrator. However given the newness of the technology and the uncertainty around depreciation I went lease for the first time

Leasing wouldn't suit my personal financial requirements.....

If I do 6,000 miles a year at 35mpg at present that's around £1,323 a year on petrol.

Leasing a car for £4,200 a year to save £1,323 doesn't make sense to me Esp with public charging it

 

[lindsay]

Leasing wouldn't suit my personal financial requirements.....

If I do 6,000 miles a year at 35mpg at present that's around £1,323 a year on petrol.

Leasing a car for £4,200 a year to save £1,323 doesn't make sense to me Esp with public charging it

Although my figures are different, this is the nub of the problem of leasing for me - I want to end up owning the car, so that I can amortise the capital cost over a longer period 10-15 years.10 years for a £35k outlay, so £3500/year, starts to make sense against the running costs of an older diesel car. It's not cheaper on the face of it, but if I get 15 years use, then it comes down to £2333 versus £1750 (fuel) plus circa £1000 (service costs). I'm taking a bet that servicing on the EV will be lower than on the diesel car, when the diesel is starting from a 7 year old base point. Only if the battery needs replacing will I lose out on that calculation.

 

[cambsno]

ISA's are available to all UK residents, home charging EV's isn't.

Ok - I can brew my own beer at home rather than buy from a pub or shop and avoid duty!

 

[cambsno]

Leasing wouldn't suit my personal financial requirements.....

If I do 6,000 miles a year at 35mpg at present that's around £1,323 a year on petrol.

Leasing a car for £4,200 a year to save £1,323 doesn't make sense to me Esp with public charging it

It's the same for my son - he has a 1k runabout. Cannot afford a 'good' car and probably not the insurance. It does him fine. If someone is handy with a car and likes tinkering, or just needs a cheap runabout, or has a perfectly good ICE 10yr old car and does lowish mileage, they would be crazy to go for EV. But if someone is looking to spend 10-15k+ and want a newer car (and doesnt do 500 miles a day or need to go off road all the time) then EV would be a great choice.

Seeing as the plan is for EVs to become the majority, how will young drivers afford insurance as EVs are generally much higher performance than ICE?

 

[cambsno]

Although my figures are different, this is the nub of the problem of leasing for me - I want to end up owning the car, so that I can amortise the capital cost over a longer period 10-15 years.10 years for a £35k outlay, so £3500/year, starts to make sense against the running costs of an older diesel car. It's not cheaper on the face of it, but if I get 15 years use, then it comes down to £2333 versus £1750 (fuel) plus circa £1000 (service costs). I'm taking a bet that servicing on the EV will be lower than on the diesel car, when the diesel is starting from a 7 year old base point. Only if the battery needs replacing will I lose out on that calculation.

3 years of EV and just spent on 4 tyres - no other service costs (ok, £25 on cabin filters).

 

[gman]

BYD and launching their new 1,000kW superfast charging cars (only expensive subbrand Denza to start with in the UK)

BYD reckons the Super e power system can deliver almost 250 miles' of charge in only five minutes, they are going to build a country wide charging network (like tesla supercharges but much much faster) The new charges deliver power so quickly the normal grid can't cope, so their charging stations will store the power in a large battery that is trickle charged from the grid when not in use.

Thanks, that sounds familiar and could be what I read.

In my village there are a few people who've cut a small "trench" across the pavement , that is covered with a removable flush rubber cap (I really should get a photo)

That could be one option, if the council allow it. I've seen those overhanging things that can swing out as well. There's always the chance that you can't get parked outside your house, but for all the times that might happen for many, I'm sure using a public charger on those odd occasions wouldn't be a game change.

People in flats might have a problem though. I suppose they will just have to accept public chargers. Hopefully, they will soon get to the stage where it will be as quick as filling up a tank of petrol/diesel.

 

[gman]

Ok - I can brew my own beer at home rather than buy from a pub or shop and avoid duty!

You certainly can and if everyone started to do it I can guarantee that the Government would find a way to tax it! lol


EDIT: Of course a key difference is that beer is a lifestyle choice, but for many a car is a necessity.

 

[Pound Coin]

There is little point in our discussing this further, as we are clearly not going to agree.

As with many topics. Agreeing doesn’t necessarily mean agreeing with you.

Agreeing isn’t essential. Understanding is.

 

[ancient_mariner]

3 years of EV and just spent on 4 tyres - no other service costs (ok, £25 on cabin filters).

Out of interest, does your car use special tyres. A colleague with an Enyaq recently replaced his tyres at nearly £400 each. It seems they are a special design.

 

[Mr Perceptive]

Out of interest, does your car use special tyres. A colleague with an Enyaq recently replaced his tyres at nearly £400 each. It seems they are a special design.

Sounds like your colleague overpaid, from my research most EVs in this category (performancish, branded extra load tyres in the 19-20in diameter) cost £200-270 per corner when ordered online and fitted at local fitter, sound like your colleague may have just gone direct to local tyre shop which won’t be as competitive

 

[srichards]

I use normal tyres on my EVs. Always have. The manufacturer fitted ones are usually utter gripless rubbish. The tyre wear is no different either.

 

[Delphin]

Out of interest, does your car use special tyres. A colleague with an Enyaq recently replaced his tyres at nearly £400 each. It seems they are a special design.

If you know the cars reg a quick search will find the correct price for that particular car. After a basic search I got prices in the £150ish range . I'd say your colleague was probably ripped off. (or it was £400 for 4)

 

[cambsno]

Out of interest, does your car use special tyres. A colleague with an Enyaq recently replaced his tyres at nearly £400 each. It seems they are a special design.

No, you can pay silly money but these were decent - i think from memory it was 270-300 for a pair