Why is the high street retailer dying?

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D4rr3n

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Here's my little tail. I've been toying with the idea of a small mirrorless system as a walk about. Narrowed it down to a sony or Fuji x of some description.

As I'd done my technical research all that was needed was a bit of "handling" and as I had 10 mins free yesterday I popped into Jessops in Ipswich. Although I was pushed for time I wasn't going to need long due to the afore mentioned research.

So I picked up a sony, turned it on and Beep, Beep it died, picked up the X-E2, turned it on, the rear screen flashed a big red battery symbol and promptly died.

I asked an assistant if they had another battery, no they didn't, but they could charge the one in the camera if I could wait or pop back!! this is at 10.30 in the morning!!!

Now call ne naïve but if your business is selling consumer electronics etc. shouldn't your first job in the morning be to make sure the bleedin' things work!! I went in with my hand on my wallet all ready to go.


Ahhhh, I feel better now!
 
It costs money to hire and train good staff and there's that saying about paying peanuts.

In an ideal world you'd have experienced helpful staff (who get paid more for their expertise) dealing with customers and those customers happy to pay the extra for those benefits but the reality is probably closer to someone trying to wrestle a pig in muck with Internet retailers taking bets on the winner.

D4rr3n said:
Here's my little tail.
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I'd be more concerned about having one than the size of it.
 
I suspect an independent non-chain retailer would have his / her act together - hasn’t even happened at clifton cameras in Dursley… they know their stuff and it all works and no I don’t work there!
 
In many ways it's got to be a good 2 way system,how many pop into shops to tried then just walk out and look for the cheapest price online :(
 
Did you intend buying instore or was it just a handling exercise?
 
simonblue said:
In many ways it's got to be a good 2 way system,how many pop into shops to tried then just walk out and look for the cheapest price online :(
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Absolutely, but I don't see how offering rubbish service helps or hinders that.

Some years ago I purchased a spotting scope. I had intended on having a look in the shops and buying online. However I got such fantastic service in the shop I paid a bit more and bought it there.

Rubbish service will not stop people shopping online but good service might.
 
D4rr3n said:
Absolutely, but I don't see how offering rubbish service helps or hinders that.

Some years ago I purchased a spotting scope. I had intended on having a look in the shops and buying online. However I got such fantastic service in the shop I paid a bit more and bought it there.

Rubbish service will not stop people shopping online but good service might.
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I agree with you,if your looking to buy and are willing to paid the extra,you expect a good service :)
 
I agree with you there.
Many years ago I was a manager at PC World, and over one Christmas period each assistant manager was given a particular department to champion and see who could produce the best growth on the previous years sales.

Of course I chose the Camera section which in those days was a very unloved area in the store. Cameras didn't even have batteries in them, let alone charged ones and nobody new anything about them.

I got my team on board and we re merchandised the area, charged up all the batteries and put them all on charge every night at store closing. Everybody was given a basic crash course, nothing to technical, but basic info as to why one camera may be better than another and a basic understanding of the settings available, resolutions, zoom lengths etc.

We improved on our previous years sales in that department by around 175% YOY.
It really didn't take much other than having working cameras, and a bit of basic knowledge to help the customer choose the right camera.

i know it can be difficult for sales staff to know the technical specifications ins and outs of each and every item in a store, especially in shops like PC World or Currys, but shops like Jessops only have to deal with cameras and should know their stuff.
 
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I bought my X-T1 at an independent and they couldn't have been more helpful. Let me wonder out the shop with camera and swapping a few lens. Before handing it over he gave the camera a once over to make sure it was set up correct. Service wise 10/10

Most of my equipment purchasing is done online, I actually think this was the first thing I've bought in store and it was a positive experience that would lead me to make more in store purchases.
 
they are dying because they don't stock what I want to buy (or at least look at) ...
"Oh, we can order that in for you" they say - yes, but I can also order it elsewhere, get it quicker from someone who already has it in stock (not to mention possibly cheaper) & get better protection under the Distance Selling Regulations ...

Sadly Jessops (pre-receivership) had bought several decent local independents & then shut them down leaving Glasgow with really only Calumet (who I do support when I can) for anybody looking for higher end stuff. :(
 
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I'd happily pay a little more for knowledge and service - rather than the general electronics store excuse for service.
I think the "peanuts" quote above hits the nail on the head, along with a fairly high turnover of staff.
I know for a fact that at least one of the biggest camera manufacturers does a fair amount of training (both technical & practical - in addition to the obligatory specifciation), so there is really no excuse.
 
I don't think it's dying, it's just changing. Big single site independents with huge online presence like WEx for the new stuff, used sites with big internet presence like MPB, Ffordes. These seem to be surviving and strengthening their market share. For the higher volume stuff, John Lewis, PC world seem to be where it's at. Putting the stuff out there, on display, charged if needs be and ready to go is key I think. Distance selling regs help, but returning items is still more hassle than never buying in the first place if you tried it in person. I do wonder, though, whether a lot of profits fall has been because the higher markup stuff [filters, bags, accessories etc] have been bargain-basemented by Amazon, HK-import eBayers, 7Day shop etc etc.
 
danbroad said:
I don't think it's dying, it's just changing. Big single site independents with huge online presence like WEx for the new stuff, used sites with big internet presence like MPB, Ffordes. These seem to be surviving and strengthening their market share. For the higher volume stuff, John Lewis, PC world seem to be where it's at. Putting the stuff out there, on display, charged if needs be and ready to go is key I think. Distance selling regs help, but returning items is still more hassle than never buying in the first place if you tried it in person. I do wonder, though, whether a lot of profits fall has been because the higher markup stuff [filters, bags, accessories etc] have been bargain-basemented by Amazon, HK-import eBayers, 7Day shop etc etc.
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Think you might have a point about the accessories - i pretty much always buy that sort of thing from Amazon or the like. they are always much more expensive in physical shops.
The price of cameras (as a whole) has dropped over the years, so less margin to be made.

the way people shop has changed massively in recent years, so shops either need to change and adapt or go bump (like pretty much every long established business form joe's corner shop to massive DIY chains.
 
Before Jessops went under I bought my first DSLR and three lenses (in different transactions) from them - I could have found cheaper elsewhere but I reasoned I've tried the item at the site it is wrong to buy elsewhere. If everyone else felt the same then Jessops wouldnt have gone under.

Long and the short of it, businesses are there to sell to us - where we buy from is where they will be. Simples. You want camera stores in the high street, buy from the high street. Probably too late now though :(
 
The thing that killed the high street shops off was the big difference in price.The gap has closed up a bit now,but the big threat is the grey import,people are getting a lot more confident with grey imports now at 30% cheaper.No amount of knowledge or customer service can hold out against massive savings like that.:(
 
bdslr said:
Before Jessops went under I bought my first DSLR and three lenses (in different transactions) from them - I could have found cheaper elsewhere but I reasoned I've tried the item at the site it is wrong to buy elsewhere. If everyone else felt the same then Jessops wouldnt have gone under.
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Whilst that no doubt paid a part in Jessops' demise, they had other problems too. I remember going into my local Jessops (one that didn't reopen when they did their Lazarus trick) to handle an Olympus OMD EM5 that I was thinking of buying, This was at the time when it was getting a lot of publicity and excitement in the photographic community. None of the staff in the shop knew what it was, or could tell me if and when they would get one in stock or display. The first person I spoke to even looked blanked at terms like "mirrorless" and "MFT", despite them stocking Panasonic MFT and Sony NEX cameras in the store.
 
I don't entirely agree with the trained staff, personal service etc arguments.
Those are arguments from an older and pretty much now gone generation.
Lets be honest here.
If you want to buy something you do not need to go fondle it in the shop, get your ego massaged by a shop assistant or whatever else.
You just go online and read a number of the millions of reviews and opinions out there.
I personally do not need to go handle it as I know the company who have made it have a team of designers working on the ergonomics.
The world is a very small place now and that is what is hurting the high street.
I think also that everyone is now over the "Grey Market" scary stories as we know that is rubbish.
I am aware I have only been a member of this site for a very short time but I have bought loads online from all over the world and have had little to no issues and when I have had issues they are just as easy to resolve.
 
For the first time in over a decade, I am at a crossroads in my camera ownership where I find myself in a position where I would actually like to compare 3 totally different camera systems. Given that this would mean ordering potentially £3000 worth of camera gear online to compare, I thought it was about time I just went out to a shop to try some cameras in the flesh to see if I could get a feel for what I wanted. A consumer should be able to do this still easily I thought....apparently not.

Cameras on my list:

Sony Alpha 7
Sony Alpha 7 mk II

Olympus EM10
Olympus EM5
Olympus EM1

Fuji XT-10

Not to mention that it would be nice to maybe compare some native lenses within each system. i.e. Some m43rds primes under the olympus for example.

1: First up I went to a Currys/PC World near my work. They had compacts and about 4 digital SLRs. 2 Canon and 2 Nikon. That was it.

2: I went into a Dixons in town to see if it was just bad luck and they had a different setup. More camera range behind a counter and nobody on the counter to serve me. There were no mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras at all though so a fail there too.

3: OK, so the above two are chains and not actual photo store to be fair so I stepped it up to going to an actual local independent camera shop. Basically again just Canon or Nikon DSLRs. Hardly anything on display.
"Can I help you sir?" as I walked in.
"Err...do you sell any mirrorless sytems?"
"We can do sir, what would you like?"
"I wanted to try out for example the Olympus EM10"
"I can certainly see if I can order that in for you sir"

For the sake of comparison, I thought I'll just get a quote first to see how much they would do it for anyway. £899 with kit lens. Only £400 more than amazon. Bargain.

4: Then I went to a local recommended shop that "had everything" and was known locally as one of the best in Surrey. I asked the guy if they had any of the above...yes. They had a Fuji but not the XT-10. The Olympus they had only the EM1. They had no Sonys. I walked out.

5: Finally on the way home having basically just decided what a waste of time it all was, I saw a Sony centre. Surely Sony would have their own premium cameras on sale? I walked in....

"Hi sir was their a particular camera you were after" (as they see me walking toward the camera cabinet full of only about 4 video cams and a couple of compacts/bridge cams)
"Yes, the Alpha 7"
"I'm afraid we don't keep them in stock, but I can order one in for you"

I walked out and went home.


This seems to happen most times I go shopping to be fair. Which is why I tend to shop online for almost everything these days. Nothing I want is in the shops. I'm not going to town to order something to be there for 3 days later for me to try out. That's a farce. I wonder why/how these shops still exist if you can't demo what you want to buy. They can't stock every camera under the sun no...but come on.


EDIT: Hang on, is the XT-10 even out? Amazon showing released 18th June. Confused as thought it was already out.
 
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clicktor said:
For the first time in over a decade, I am at a crossroads in my camera ownership where I find myself in a position where I would actually like to compare 3 totally different camera systems. Given that this would mean ordering potentially £3000 worth of camera gear online to compare, I thought it was about time I just went out to a shop to try some cameras in the flesh to see if I could get a feel for what I wanted. A consumer should be able to do this still easily I thought....apparently not.

Cameras on my list:

Sony Alpha 7
Sony Alpha 7 mk II

Olympus EM10
Olympus EM5
Olympus EM1

Fuji XT-10

Not to mention that it would be nice to maybe compare some native lenses within each system. i.e. Some m43rds primes under the olympus for example.

1: First up I went to a Currys/PC World near my work. They had compacts and about 4 digital SLRs. 2 Canon and 2 Nikon. That was it.

2: I went into a Dixons in town to see if it was just bad luck and they had a different setup. More camera range behind a counter and nobody on the counter to serve me. There were no mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras at all though so a fail there too.

3: OK, so the above two are chains and not actual photo store to be fair so I stepped it up to going to an actual local independent camera shop. Basically again just Canon or Nikon DSLRs. Hardly anything on display.
"Can I help you sir?" as I walked in.
"Err...do you sell any mirrorless sytems?"
"We can do sir, what would you like?"
"I wanted to try out for example the Olympus EM10"
"I can certainly see if I can order that in for you sir"

For the sake of comparison, I thought I'll just get a quote first to see how much they would do it for anyway. £899 with kit lens. Only £400 more than amazon. Bargain.

4: Then I went to a local recommended shop that "had everything" and was known locally as one of the best in Surrey. I asked the guy if they had any of the above...yes. They had a Fuji but not the XT-10. The Olympus they had only the EM1. They had no Sonys. I walked out.

5: Finally on the way home having basically just decided what a waste of time it all was, I saw a Sony centre. Surely Sony would have their own premium cameras on sale? I walked in....

"Hi sir was their a particular camera you were after" (as they see me walking toward the camera cabinet full of only about 4 video cams and a couple of compacts/bridge cams)
"Yes, the Alpha 7"
"I'm afraid we don't keep them in stock, but I can order one in for you"

I walked out and went home.


This seems to happen most times I go shopping to be fair. Which is why I tend to shop online for almost everything these days. Nothing I want is in the shops. I'm not going to town to order something to be there for 3 days later for me to try out. That's a farce. I wonder why/how these shops still exist if you can't demo what you want to buy. They can't stock every camera under the sun no...but come on.


EDIT: Hang on, is the XT-10 even out? Amazon showing released 18th June. Confused as thought it was already out.
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And that's the Vicious circle. No choice in shop, people then buy on line. People buying online means retailers make cutbacks and don't stock as much range... and on and on it goes till there's nothing left but Amazon's warehouse.

And no the XT-10 is not out, it's only been announced.
 
I wonder how many people will admit going into an local shop asking to try something,then looking for the cheapest price online :rolleyes:
 
simonblue said:
I wonder how many people will admit going into an local shop asking to try something,then looking for the cheapest price online :rolleyes:
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A couple of years or so ago, I saw a guy put out of an upmarket camera shop in Southport after having tried a camera, several lenses and other bits and bobs, and then telling the salesman he could get all that kit for X pounds cheaper online :rolleyes:...And was very promptly shown the door :bat:
 
simonblue said:
I wonder how many people will admit going into an local shop asking to try something,then looking for the cheapest price online :rolleyes:
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Probably a great deal, although I have never bought online as I am afraid of it going missing. All my cameras and lenses etc have been bought from Jessops Currys Jacobs John Lewis and a few other stores. I used to buy lots of stuff from a place in St Helens called Kamera Photographic Ltd, think at some point it may have been called Best Kamera. :thinking: Their prices were comparable to online retailers, they always seemed busy but they still went out of business!
 
jonbeeza said:
Their prices were comparable to online retailers, they always seemed busy but they still went out of business!
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Goes to show that high-street overheads don't pay themselves.
 
jonbeeza said:
But surely online retailers must have premises to pay for also?
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The overheads of operating out of a warehouse on an industrial estate are completely different to running a retail outlet on a high street. Rent, rates, fit-out costs, insurance and staff costs are on a whole different level.
Obviously, the online supplier incurs postage costs, but these are dropping in a very competitive market (and often passed on to consumer anyway). Marketing costs are also a consideration, but high street is still more expensive.
 
Llamaman said:
The overheads of operating out of a warehouse on an industrial estate are completely different to running a retail outlet on a high street. Rent, rates, fit-out costs, insurance and staff costs are on a whole different level.
Obviously, the online supplier incurs postage costs, but these are dropping in a very competitive market (and often passed on to consumer anyway). Marketing costs are also a consideration, but high street is still more expensive.
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Many of the on-liners don't have a warehouse full of expensive kit they order it from a distribution company and have it shipped direct charging the end customer for the cost of shipping which the distributor might not even charge them so no risk to the on line retailer at all.
I use Wilkinson's for my purchases on a quick call they will tell you if they have what you want and if not will get it in store for you to check out and ring to let you know it's arrived. I have found their prices to be competitive and in the last four camera purchases ( two for me one each for my daughter and niece) we have been offered something extra such as a free 3 year warranty or an extra lens, bag or whatever. Some of the vendors (personal experience of Canon Nikon and Panasonic )do special deals for independents that they couldn't afford to do through the likes of PC World etc. to help them to be profitable whilst competing with the on liners.
 
Another one on the way out today - R G Lewis on Southampton Row in London. :(

One of the guys at R G Lewis was working round the corner at York Cameras until they closed in August last year.

CG-jwbTXIAADPgQ.jpg
 
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Bigfungun said:
If you want to buy something you do not need to go fondle it in the shop, get your ego massaged by a shop assistant or whatever else.
You just go online and read a number of the millions of reviews and opinions out there.
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Depends on what you're going to buy. When I was looking to buy the G12, there was the S100 and a Nikon (?P7000) equivalent. I knew the G12 was a bit bulky but I didn't appreciate how much until I saw it in person. You can read up all you want but sometimes you do really need to fondle something to get an idea. I played with all three cameras and found the G12 was the best for me and bought it there and then in that Jessops store. Even bought a memory card and case with it too.

simonblue said:
I wonder how many people will admit going into an local shop asking to try something,then looking for the cheapest price online :rolleyes:
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There are times I plan to do this - not just with cameras - but other appliances. Sometimes it's frustrating because the instore model numbers do not match online versions, though sometimes you can work it out based on looks and features. On some occasions, I've bought online (mainly because they could give me a weekend delivery for free) and on others there and then (simpler and more convenient).

In some ways, I'm surprised we don't have dedicated Canon, Nikon, Sony etc stores where they just have the products to display and people can come and ask questions, have a tinker but have to either order there and then or go home and look it up.
 
omens said:
Depends on what you're going to buy. When I was looking to buy the G12, there was the S100 and a Nikon (?P7000) equivalent. I knew the G12 was a bit bulky but I didn't appreciate how much until I saw it in person. You can read up all you want but sometimes you do really need to fondle something to get an idea. I played with all three cameras and found the G12 was the best for me and bought it there and then in that Jessops store. Even bought a memory card and case with it too.


There are times I plan to do this - not just with cameras - but other appliances. Sometimes it's frustrating because the instore model numbers do not match online versions, though sometimes you can work it out based on looks and features. On some occasions, I've bought online (mainly because they could give me a weekend delivery for free) and on others there and then (simpler and more convenient).

In some ways, I'm surprised we don't have dedicated Canon, Nikon, Sony etc stores where they just have the products to display and people can come and ask questions, have a tinker but have to either order there and then or go home and look it up.
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I buy nearly all my stuff from local shop,the only thing i get online are the odd things i cant buy from shops :)
 
The reason that the high street retailers are dying is due to the ridiculous price variation between them & what is available through reputable online vendors. The last think I bought was a canon 5d iii- a quick comparison that took 20 odd seconds;
Currys £2249
LCE £2249
Hdew £1579

You decide.
 
Adam J said:
The reason that the high street retailers are dying is due to the ridiculous price variation between them & what is available through reputable online vendors. The last think I bought was a canon 5d iii- a quick comparison that took 20 odd seconds;
Currys £2249
LCE £2249
Hdew £1579

You decide.
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But HDEW is an grey importer,they have always been more cheaper,nothin new :)
 
And?

What's the issue there? Canon cps won't service it for me? How is the camera different?
They are reputable & easily accessible. You can even get a cat receipt.
 
Musicman said:
Another one on the way out today - R G Lewis on Southampton Row in London. :(

One of the guys at R G Lewis was working round the corner at York Cameras until they closed in August last year.

CG-jwbTXIAADPgQ.jpg
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Shame :(
 
Llamaman said:
The overheads of operating out of a warehouse on an industrial estate are completely different to running a retail outlet on a high street. Rent, rates, fit-out costs, insurance and staff costs are on a whole different level.
Obviously, the online supplier incurs postage costs, but these are dropping in a very competitive market (and often passed on to consumer anyway). Marketing costs are also a consideration, but high street is still more expensive.
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True as well as drop shipping direct from suppliers.... affects many markets not just photography though and there is no magic answer :( ..... added factor of many more choices of body than in the "old" days if anywhere were trying to stock all choices.
I do wonder though how many people get in the position of really needing to try out several disparate systems, I mean yes it would be nice/fun whatever but how many with a view to really purchasing rather than playing? I think most of us are either system committed by our glass or if seriously switching are doing so because we already know why, or upgrading is pretty much known e.g. the handling etc on a 5d mkiv is likely to be almost identical to a mkiii etc and I wonder how many sales are "fresh" and how many from upgrade paths..... don't get me wrong I understand the op's frustration I just don't think many people would be in that position or at least not enough to justify many retail operations having their stock expectations (and surviving v long) sadly.

We reap what we sow and the majority have seen nothing wrong in try before you buy (elsewhere) and now maybe they are starting to? ; (

P.S I too am guilty of the buying online cheaper bit as most here are....but also accept by doing so the different experience, the times I have tried anything at say wex or park I have then bought from them if I liked it fyi :)
 
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