Wigan Photographic Society Competition Fraud?

G

ghoti

Messages
1,368
Edit My Images
Yes
I really dislike this kind of thing and feel it should be pointed out when it happens. So...

Just saw this pop up in a photography group. Very interesting. I wonder if anyone here knows the Wigan Photographic Society...

So the winning image (Madonna by "John Scott") here: http://www.wiganps.org/section791228_654212.html

Actually seems to belong to a photographer named Caroline Angel, who is none too happy about it. Writing on Facebook that she has posted her complaint to the WPS Facebook page, only to have it removed by the admin - who is named.....John Scott! What a coincidence.

Her Facebook including the controversial image and her comments is here: www.facebook.com/rivendellstudios
 
I suppose he thought he would not be noticed by flipping it and replacing the background.

I note he is the society treasurer but there are other officers she could write to with a suitably enquiry as to how he had such an image? At theory very least the society secretary should do is investigate and reply....... though if push comes to shove I surmise there is a local paper who may well have published the winners.......?

Were I in her shoes I would be writing to the other officers of the society.

PS I see they have been recipients of Lottery Grants.........they should keep their house in better order!
 
Last edited:
I know where theres a big tree if you guys have a rope ?
 
KIPAX said:
I know where theres a big tree if you guys have a rope ?
Click to expand...

I not think TP members will have to supply the rope, if you look at the comments on her FB page if the WPS do not act the clamour for a response will likely only grow as there are Wigan residents posting now.
 
Saw this earlier. Very embarrassing situation for the club. I'm surprised his images are still displayed on their site - including this one! I imagine the national press could show an interest soon.
 
Image has gone...

...and so has he apparently.
 
They seem to be expunging all John William Scott's work from their website as hastily as possible.

 
He's still mentioned in the 'Contacts' page.
 
Idle wondering.....how many named John Scott are in Wigan, as there is one who should be a pillar of the community because of his uniform. For sure he was would not wish to be associated with such activity because of a shared name :(
 
This from Facebook:

t has come to our attention that a member of WPS has defied this organisations rules and code of conduct by plagiarising photographic images. As a well respected photography club we are appalled by the behaviour of this individual and do not under any circumstances condone this practise. As a result of this coming to light and being thoroughly investigated by WPS committee members, the individual has by mutual agreement retired both their position on the committee and membership from this club.
Any organisation that has been affected will be contacted forthwith and apologises made.
Please may WPS extend our deepest apologies to the family concerned for any distress and inconvenience caused by this and assure all concerned that this club does not and will not accept this behaviour by any members past present or future.
Kind Regards
Debra Cain
President WPS
Competition Secretary
 
I know of the Wigan Club. Don't know any members. But, to my untutored eye they are obsessed with competitions. They appear to believe that winning competitions is the be all and end all of photography. They appear to believe that they are the best club in the country, and success is measured by the list of competition wins.
They are not alone in that. There is a club on my doorstep who fights bitterly with Wigan in competitions.
Competitions, and the winning of them, is what drives many clubs. The philosophy seems to be that the only good photograph is a competition winner.
I'm not a member!
 
mickledore said:
I know of the Wigan Club. Don't know any members. But, to my untutored eye they are obsessed with competitions. They appear to believe that winning competitions is the be all and end all of photography. They appear to believe that they are the best club in the country, and success is measured by the list of competition wins.
They are not alone in that. There is a club on my doorstep who fights bitterly with Wigan in competitions.
Competitions, and the winning of them, is what drives many clubs. The philosophy seems to be that the only good photograph is a competition winner.
I'm not a member!
Click to expand...
The club you are thinking of is Wigan 10. They really are the dog's b****x when it comes to UK club photography. The club this individual was a member of was Wigan Photographic Society. Two very different clubs.

I can't believe (or maybe I can) why anyone would do this. You would enter a club competition in the hope it does well. If it does well it would probably go on to club vs club and county competitions and beyond. Surely he can't have believed that he wouldn't be spotted at some point. Unfortunately he isn't the first to have done this and just as unfortunately he won't be the last.
 
Last edited:
psybear said:
This from Facebook:

t has come to our attention that a member of WPS has defied this organisations rules and code of conduct by plagiarising photographic images. As a well respected photography club we are appalled by the behaviour of this individual and do not under any circumstances condone this practise. As a result of this coming to light and being thoroughly investigated by WPS committee members, the individual has by mutual agreement retired both their position on the committee and membership from this club.
Any organisation that has been affected will be contacted forthwith and apologises made.
Please may WPS extend our deepest apologies to the family concerned for any distress and inconvenience caused by this and assure all concerned that this club does not and will not accept this behaviour by any members past present or future.
Kind Regards
Debra Cain
President WPS
Competition Secretary
Click to expand...

In regard to the plagiarism I note the plural........so looks like the WPS has had revealed in their midst a serial plagiarist. Very sad to see that this goes on at club level.

At least they have stepped up and taken what action they can......though will the guy be seen elsewhere doing the same thing again remains to be seen!
 
Last edited:
I know most of the Wigan 10 met at least five of them and been on a few field treks with three of I also consider a couple to be good friends and take it from me they will be appalled by this guys behaviour
 
I paid a rather large deposit for a camera to a highly recommended (on another forum) source and he disappeared as well quite a few years ago... he was from Wigan
 
mickledore said:
I know of the Wigan Club. Don't know any members. But, to my untutored eye they are obsessed with competitions. They appear to believe that winning competitions is the be all and end all of photography. They appear to believe that they are the best club in the country, and success is measured by the list of competition wins.
They are not alone in that. There is a club on my doorstep who fights bitterly with Wigan in competitions.
Competitions, and the winning of them, is what drives many clubs. The philosophy seems to be that the only good photograph is a competition winner.
I'm not a member!
Click to expand...

Are there any camera clubs that aren't like this? Any that I look that seem to match this description exactly, which is why I have never joined one.
 
FinePrintDandy said:
Are there any camera clubs that aren't like this? Any that I look that seem to match this description exactly, which is why I have never joined one.
Click to expand...

Plenty i'm sure, i help coordinate our local camera club, but we always point out we are not a camera 'society', we don't have competitions, we don't meet in church halls, we don't have guest speakers, our local camera society does this

What we do is meet once a month in a pub and discuss all things, photography related or not, we have at least one planned outing a month with several other impromptu outings, we are about getting out and about and taking photos, not sitting in a stuffy church hall talking about it, which is the impression i get from what our local 'societies' offer........... all IMO of course
 
This update from Caroline Angel's FB page:

Just adding an update to this post to let people know what has happened since this story surfaced….
The Wigan Photographic Society issued a statement stating that their admin member who was responsible for stealing the image, had resigned. The image was duly removed from their website.
However, it has since transpired that not only did the stolen image win first prize in their club completion, they had also entered it as part of a set in The Photographic Alliance of Great Britain Championships, in which they won a trophy and a place in the next heat.
As a result of the actions of this idiot man, the club has now had to withdraw completely from the competition.
I think this is absolutely dreadful and I feel so sorry for the other members who had worked hard to get that place. They are the real victims of this mans actions. I know it was my image that he stole, but it is his fellow club members who are now paying the price. Really awful situation, what a stupid, stupid man.
 
This story doesn't surprise me based on my own personal experience of my local camera club.

Very competition driven & cliquey

Would often hear members boasting about how the have the latest Photoshop etc. but didn't pay for it nudge nudge and then offer to provide it for free to other members

I didn't stay a member for long
 
Most camera clubs are competition driven and they abide by the rules. What has happened is bad for all camera clubs and i am glad to see the quick response from Wigan. I am sorry that it has tarnished that club but hope they recover from it quickly. I like a lot of other club photographers enjoy the competition side of it and I feel it improves my photography.
In the end you have to feel sorry for the rest of the membership
 
If you reduce photography to a competitive sport, which a great many clubs do, then you'll get people who want to cheat. Considering this (seeing as it's obvious) why didn't WPS insist on raw files for all competition entries?
 
Pookeyhead said:
If you reduce photography to a competitive sport, which a great many clubs do, then you'll get people who want to cheat. Considering this (seeing as it's obvious) why didn't WPS insist on raw files for all competition entries?
Click to expand...

This thought crossed my mind a few times reading this and Carri's fb page. By I suppose clubs and societies take members on their honour having signed acknowledgement of the rules! But as you say sight of the original RAW covers all against such a plagiarist act.
 
It's taking part that counts....
I used to enjoy the competitions as it gives an opportunity for everyone to make an effort and put up their best work. Regardless of whether the judges comments are liked, they still provided a viewpoint for comparison and consideration.
The hassle (and cost) of printing and mounting ensured a lot of thought went into each image. I reckon this explains why the standard in digital projection was never as high; but that's a different discussion.
I'm no longer a club member and tread my own path; sometimes I wish I still had something to work towards and the banter that goes along with it.
I do still support local clubs and regularly give talks. The camera club was what I needed at the time and I believe they are worth supporting.

Providing RAWs is an interesting question.
In principle it is a great idea as everyone else gets a chance to see (and learn from) the post-processing that was carried out to produce the final image.
We had a creative manipulation competition and I was an advocate of sticking a print of the original image on the back for comparison. Sadly, it wasn't adopted but I still think it would have been a good idea.
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
Providing RAWs is an interesting question.
In principle it is a great idea as everyone else gets a chance to see (and learn from) the post-processing that was carried out to produce the final image.
We had a creative manipulation competition and I was an advocate of sticking a print of the original image on the back for comparison. Sadly, it wasn't adopted but I still think it would have been a good idea.
Click to expand...

No one ever wants to show their raw files though. No idea whether this is because a raw file really shows what a terrible photographer some really are, or how their work is so totally reliant on processing, but it most definitely seems to be the case. I insist on raw files for my students so I can assess their workflow, and raw file prep (lens profiles, CA removal, sharpening techniques etc) and you'd be amazed by the lengths some will go to in order to avoid this.

No one wants to learn from mistakes any more. They want the quick fix processing gives. I reckon a great many amateur club members would just not enter competitions if they had to provide a raw file.
 
The proof of authorship by showing the RAW is key in this instance not the before & after for a talk about pp'ing I.e.the competition secretary gets sight of both and in effect signs off that the competition entry is valid.
 
I'd better stop shooting in JPEG only then [/delusional about own ability]
 
I don't think anyone is trying to reduce photography to competition. It is one branch like wedding, portrait or sports. I think like most clubs Wigan trust people to be honest. It would be a shame if club members have to submit the original RAW that is saying that they use RAW in the first place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top