Wildlife - Canon 80D/Sigma 150-600mm vs Lumix G9/Leica 100-400mm

[Tysonator]

thanks yes the R5 is amazing autofocus is incredible
it’s the 6D 2 I’ve got not the R6 2 but the 6D 2 does have really nice image quality

sorry I miss read, yes you mention 6Dii, my friend who had the R5 did own the 6D.
personally I did not like the 6D as I though it was bit clunky and I much preferred my 7Dii handling, AF, button lay out.

If I had the money I would get the R5 as the eye detect and IQ is amazing !
I will struggle on with my R7, Sony A6600 and tank o that is 7Dii,...lol

 

[Sangoma]

I have marked the frame of the 400mm (800mm) and the Canon with 600mm (960mm) on a shot taken with the 300mm (600mm)





And then the same part cropped from each lens/camera combination.



16MB 600mm (G80 + 100-300 at 300)



20MB 800mm (G9 + 100-400 at 400)



Canon + 600 X 1.6 960mm

Sorry this is out of focus, in the light today autofocus won't work and I can't see it clearly enough to focus, even tried a tripod.

The quality is not relevant, just to show what you get.
All were cropped to 10% of their original pixel width


Then cropping the same area from the two Panasonic combinations

G80 + 100-300 at 300




And G9 + 100-400 at 400


The difference is more noticeable in good light, but even here it is visible.

When the light is better, I will put them all on a tripod including the Canon and see if it produces something worthwhile.

 

[sk66]

The only thing I doubt is whether that difference is as great as the OP is hoping for or expecting, and is sufficient go give him value for his money.

That is the question... I never said the G9 + 100-400 would make no difference; just that it would make minimal difference. Particularly with small moving subjects in poor light.

The difference is more noticeable in good light, but even here it is visible.

For something like this the G9 has another advantage you may not have used... pixel shift mode. That can make a significant difference, at least in terms of image noise/low light.

 

[the black fox]

Sony RX10mkiv might fit your bill 600mm reach at f4 fast af etc

 

[Sangoma]

For something like this the G9 has another advantage you may not have used... pixel shift mode. That can make a significant difference, at least in terms of image noise/low light.

Yes, it works well, but not really relevant to what the OP wants to do at present.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Sony RX10mkiv might fit your bill 600mm reach at f4 fast af etc

Hmm not really much of an advantage to what I have now, really after extending my zoom capability.

 

[Crotal Bell]

I think it's the 80D and the 150-600mm, It's higher pixels, bugger sensor, longer reach, and cheaper for mint condition gear.

I've seen Flickr pages using this rig for birds and aviation and I am impressed with the results.

I know there's more advanced cameras but it's a good solid unit and makes many users very happy.

Now I need to try it or something similar in the hands and judge the weight, that's the only stumbling block in the way.

 

[Brentor]

sorry I miss read, yes you mention 6Dii, my friend who had the R5 did own the 6D.
personally I did not like the 6D as I though it was bit clunky and I much preferred my 7Dii handling, AF, button lay out.

If I had the money I would get the R5 as the eye detect and IQ is amazing !
I will struggle on with my R7, Sony A6600 and tank o that is 7Dii,...lol

Sorry for the hijack, but why is the R7 a struggle? I am looking to get one to use with my Sigma 150-600c because of the AF system, but from comments about pulsing and the relatively poor quality of the body have made me question whether it is worth it.

 

[LCPete]

sorry I miss read, yes you mention 6Dii, my friend who had the R5 did own the 6D.
personally I did not like the 6D as I though it was bit clunky and I much preferred my 7Dii handling, AF, button lay out.

If I had the money I would get the R5 as the eye detect and IQ is amazing !
I will struggle on with my R7, Sony A6600 and tank o that is 7Dii,...lol

Yes agree although the 6D 2 has nice image quality it’s clunky to use and autofocus isn’t so good for anything fast moving at the time I used the 6D 2 for macro and for wildlife anything moving the 7D 2 it has excellent autofocus
The R5 though has replaced both cameras with great image quality and amazing autofocus

 

[Sangoma]

I think it's the 80D and the 150-600mm, It's higher pixels, bugger sensor, longer reach, and cheaper for mint condition gear.

I've seen Flickr pages using this rig for birds and aviation and I am impressed with the results.

I know there's more advanced cameras but it's a good solid unit and makes many users very happy.

Now I need to try it or something similar in the hands and judge the weight, that's the only stumbling block in the way.

Might be an idea to ensure the lens you buy comes with the tripod mount, I've see that some don't, and read that it is almost impossible and very expensive to buy by itself. Does seem to be quite a common issue with second hand lenses.

If when you find a place to try it, it would be nice to try a G9 + 100-400 as well, and take a couple of test shots with each.
Not trying to sway your opinion, but just so that you know for yourself.

However, if your mind is made up, go for it, no reason to hold back, and enjoy

 

[Mike.P]

Sorry for the hijack, but why is the R7 a struggle? I am looking to get one to use with my Sigma 150-600c because of the AF system, but from comments about pulsing and the relatively poor quality of the body have made me question whether it is worth it.

I don't get pulsing with my 150-600mm, the body isn't as well made as the previous 7 series cameras but it's good enough. The only thing for me is size, I do wish someone would make a decent grip for the thing because it is totally unbalanced with big lenses.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Might be an idea to ensure the lens you buy comes with the tripod mount, I've see that some don't, and read that it is almost impossible and very expensive to buy by itself. Does seem to be quite a common issue with second hand lenses.

If when you find a place to try it, it would be nice to try a G9 + 100-400 as well, and take a couple of test shots with each.
Not trying to sway your opinion, but just so that you know for yourself.

However, if your mind is made up, go for it, no reason to hold back, and enjoy

Thanks for the comparison photos buddy, and I would love to try both for comparison.

 

[tijuana taxi]

This looks alright https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/...-404C-A0BD-96183E3B33A1&utm_source=SmartBrief

 

[Crotal Bell]

This looks alright https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/...-404C-A0BD-96183E3B33A1&utm_source=SmartBrief

Certainly does, but 2.5 kilos and over 2 grand. Should be a good option for those who can afford it.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Hi Keith, Steven (@sk66) I've found this a useful thread.

Steven, keeping to Keith's stated choices in the OP, can it be summarized as follows:

Keith's current 100-300 has a perceptual max resolution of 6mpix measured by DXO. Upgrading the camera body doesn't change this so results likely to be much the same and disappointing.

The Sigma 150-600 has a max resolution of 14 and as long as the camera body has a sensor more than 14mpix, Keith should see an improvement.

Have I understood the technical part correctly?

I think the resolution question can be a bit of a personal one?

Just taking zoom capability as the main aim, the 80D/Sig150-600 is going to get me significantly closer to subjects than the G80/100-300mm does now.

Looking at the results from people on Flickr, the quality of those images from the 80D and Sigma is certainly good enough for me.

 

[sk66]

This looks alright https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/...-404C-A0BD-96183E3B33A1&utm_source=SmartBrief

That's the one I use... it's the best of them at 600mm. Still not up to the level of the top fast primes, but nearly as sharp as the Nikon 500/5.6 PF.

 

[sk66]

I think the resolution question can be a bit of a personal one?

"Acceptable" is certainly a personal standard.
Let us know how it goes with the new kit!

 

[Tysonator]

I don't get pulsing with my 150-600mm, the body isn't as well made as the previous 7 series cameras but it's good enough. The only thing for me is size, I do wish someone would make a decent grip for the thing because it is totally unbalanced with big lenses.

I am now an R7 owner and I have 7Dii, Sony A6600, Sigma 150-600C, ef 100-400L IS USM Mkii, EF 70-300L IS USM.
I do agree the R7 build feels less substantial than the 7Dii and the small form factor is the norm now, however what we are really paying for is the eye / subject tracking AF !
If we could have that in our 7Dii bodies there would be a lot of very happy canon owners ! ! ! lol

Canon not making a dedicated battery grip seems unusual as perhaps they want people to upgrade to R6ii in the future which does have a battery grip option !

 

[Mike.P]

Canon not making a dedicated battery grip seems unusual as perhaps they want people to upgrade to R6ii in the future which does have a battery grip option !

The R6ii is aimed at a totally different market to the R7, it's a full frame 24mp body which doesn't have the reach (or cropping ability) of the R7.
The only reason I can think of is that the R7 is a stop gap until they bring out a R7ii because from what I have seen there is definately a market for a grip of some sort.

 

[Crotal Bell]

So today I bit the bullet, and a Panasonic Leica 100-400mm Power OIS lens arrived, used in very clean condition with clean glass from Cambrian Photo.

I recently handled an 80d with the Sigma, and although I found the weight acceptable, I knew it would not be as comfortable as what I'm used to. Also, there are mirrorless features that I have come to like that I don't want to sacrifice. The intention is to add a G9 or Oly body in the Spring, for now it sits on my G80 and waits for Saturday to arrive.

 

[Fran83]

So today I bit the bullet, and a Panasonic Leica 100-400mm Power OIS lens arrived, used in very clean condition with clean glass from Cambrian Photo.

I recently handled an 80d with the Sigma, and although I found the weight acceptable, I knew it would not be as comfortable as what I'm used to. Also, there are mirrorless features that I have come to like that I don't want to sacrifice. The intention is to add a G9 or Oly body in the Spring, for now it sits on my G80 and waits for Saturday to arrive.

Very late to this thread but keen to know how you've got on. I recently purchased a used G9 and Pan/Leica 100-400. Like you I had the FZ82 then the FZ1000ii. I'm wondering if I have bitten off more than I can chew with the 100 -400 but I love the G9.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Very late to this thread but keen to know how you've got on. I recently purchased a used G9 and Pan/Leica 100-400. Like you I had the FZ82 then the FZ1000ii. I'm wondering if I have bitten off more than I can chew with the 100 -400 but I love the G9.

I have no regrets Frances, I love the size and capability of the G9 and Lieca 100-400mm, looking forward to 2024 with it on many outings.

 

[Fran83]

Brilliant! That's great to know. Very new to this combo so lots of practice needed. Have you found it necessary to use a tripod or monopod? Was very lucky to get pics of Waxwings in my garden yesterday, albeit with the FZ1000ii which just happened to be in my hand at the time.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Brilliant! That's great to know. Very new to this combo so lots of practice needed. Have you found it necessary to use a tripod or monopod? Was very lucky to get pics of Waxwings in my garden yesterday, albeit with the FZ1000ii which just happened to be in my hand at the time.

I never use tripods or monopods, the stabilisation is so good I never bother, and the form factor means I can carry it all day. I usually shot in manual but TBH the ISO is on auto and aperture set as open as poss and it just reduces automatically as I zoom. I shoot SS 1/500 for stills and SS 1/1000 for most moving birds.
If the light is bad I have gone as low as SS 1/60 and used a burst rate for still subjects and got some sharp shots. SS 1/125 is very good in low light if you have stable hands.

 

[Fran83]

Excellent. Hoping I will be able to do without tripod etc. just need to get some practice in. If only it would stop raining!!! Thanks very much for the detailed info, greatly appreciated.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I have no regrets Frances, I love the size and capability of the G9 and Lieca 100-400mm, looking forward to 2024 with it on many outings.

It's a good combination.

I never separate the G9 from the 100~400 because the combination meets my needs so well for general photography.

 

[stickytape]

Converting things to FF makes them make sense me.

So, 100-400mm on MTF = 200-800mm on FF.
150-600mm on APS-C = 240-960mm on FF.
(Canon APS-C is smaller than Nikon or Sony or Fuji with a x1.6 crop rather than the more usual x1.5.)

I don't know if there'll be any improvement in file quality going from MFT to an older Canon APS-C but I know I'd miss the advantages that mirrorless brings if going back to a DSLR, in fact it's something I wont do.

Funny, the way we convert to full frame for everything just makes me think of the dang metric systems, and me having to convert things to my way of thinking (imperial) sometimes when there is a metric situation!

 

[the black fox]

I never use tripods or monopods, the stabilisation is so good I never bother, and the form factor means I can carry it all day. I usually shot in manual but TBH the ISO is on auto and aperture set as open as poss and it just reduces automatically as I zoom. I shoot SS 1/500 for stills and SS 1/1000 for most moving birds.
If the light is bad I have gone as low as SS 1/60 and used a burst rate for still subjects and got some sharp shots. SS 1/125 is very good in low light if you have stable hands.

I wonder if that’s my old PL you bought keith as I PXed it at Cambrian .. was a extremely good copy

 

[ancient_mariner]

Funny, the way we convert to full frame

It's more readily understood than quoting field of view angles. 35mm film framing provides a widely recognised reference point.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Excellent. Hoping I will be able to do without tripod etc. just need to get some practice in. If only it would stop raining!!! Thanks very much for the detailed info, greatly appreciated.

No problem Frances, and yes, the weather we are having at the moment is not too good for outdoor photography that's for sure !

It's a good combination.

I never separate the G9 from the 100~400 because the combination meets my needs so well for general photography.

View attachment 410865

I never take mine off either, I have a smaller lens on the G80 and I keep the combinations the same and usually take both cameras in a shoulder bag.

I wonder if that’s my old PL you bought keith as I PXed it at Cambrian .. was a extremely good copy

There were two available so quite possibly mate.