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Daugirdas has already been assimilated by Apple. Discussion is futile
Windows to Mac advice
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Daugirdas has already been assimilated by Apple. Discussion is futile
Haha, true that! I'll just leave him to it then and hope no one actually takes note of his 'advice'
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Viruses on Mac OS X do not exist outside of proof of concept.
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OK. If you say so. A quick search produced these.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/9355995/Apple-drops-virus-immunity-claim-for-Macs.html
http://macviruscom.wordpress.com/
http://www.techspot.com/news/51689-...nitiates-creepy-reverse-shell-connection.html
I'm just totally uninterested in whether they are classed as virii, trojans, back doors, phishing scams, worms - you name it - I don't care. The fact is that if you have an unprotected Mac and click on the wrong thing and don't realise it yourself, you're more likely to lose your personal data than someone who is protected. It's as simple as that.
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In my personal experience, having recently changed from windows laptop to a 27" iMac, it was the best thing I've ever done, well worth the expense and an incredibly easy change.
It took less than a week to be comfortable with the new way of doing things. I love the gestures on the Magic Mouse and trackpad, I did have to print a list of the keyboard shortcuts for apple and put it next to the computer, and I needed some tips and help from google/YouTube/here for some things but overall I couldn't be happier. Even running a little i3 processor it handles every thing I've thrown at it including games (I play borderlands 2).
It really comes down to you (OP) and what you feel comfortable using. I'm not saying apple is better or windows is better overall. I am saying it comes down to personal choice and you need to make that choice based on what you want.
I'd advise going to the apple store and having a play with the one you want, test it out and see what you think if you haven't already.
I do have antivirus on my mac, and it has stopped threats so don't be fooled into believing you don't need any - it's precautionary, but it's worth it.
It took less than a week to be comfortable with the new way of doing things. I love the gestures on the Magic Mouse and trackpad, I did have to print a list of the keyboard shortcuts for apple and put it next to the computer, and I needed some tips and help from google/YouTube/here for some things but overall I couldn't be happier. Even running a little i3 processor it handles every thing I've thrown at it including games (I play borderlands 2).
It really comes down to you (OP) and what you feel comfortable using. I'm not saying apple is better or windows is better overall. I am saying it comes down to personal choice and you need to make that choice based on what you want.
I'd advise going to the apple store and having a play with the one you want, test it out and see what you think if you haven't already.
I do have antivirus on my mac, and it has stopped threats so don't be fooled into believing you don't need any - it's precautionary, but it's worth it.
LongLensPhotography
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User has to install this crap. Yawn
There are people that give out their bank details to strangers over the phone and no security in the world will stop them from catching computer viruses on any os
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Not everyone knows it all about computers OR wants to know it all. So get down off your high horse and stop trying to make everyone feel stupid for doing the best they can to minimise their risk. You are not the leading authority on everything mac or pc related and everyone has a right to choose what they want without you making them feel stupid.
Some things show up without you knowing its there, some are attached to legitimate software that you want to install (I've been victim of this once).
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I just love it when somebody comes up and gets really personal
It must be a great way to support your argument and position in a discussion?We are basically talking about common sense response to questions, prompts and trust (nothing specific to computers at all). If an individual choses to ignore all of this, then the outcome is eventually a very consequential event and this is well explained by the natural selection rules.
It is a very well established fact, that anything strange and non-familiar needs treating with due care and suspect, not opening up and giving confidential information, access or whatever. Fraud not only happens on PCs, but also ATMs, phones, street and so on. This can't be ignored by anyone in a civilised world. It is the same as locking your home and making sure there are no open windows downstairs... Everyone must do that. Saying that some people shouldn't be asked to treat PCs with similar respect is therefore an utter nonsense. This costs banks alone billions, and therefore costs everyone of us
If you want to run AV on a secure platform, that is fine and entirely up to you. But please do not presume that it will stop every and all dangerous applications. It won't - some are too new or too small to be known and detected, and bigger ones should be (and are) dealt with by OEMs. In fact some users disable AVs when prompted about a threat... no comments on that :shrug:
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Got to love those that are holier than thou
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Well.. I'll not need to sell my PC after 3 years, that's the difference - I would probably have to upgrade parts of it, so your argument is void I'm afraid. The case PSU, possibly GPUs, memory, drives, SSDs would all be carried over to the new build.
Mac Pros are out dated before you even buy them.. especially when it comes to GPUs. Top end Mac Pro, and it comes with a Radeon 5870? What's that about? That GPU was launched in 2009 and their still peddling it with a £4K computer? If you want a Quadra card, get ready for some SERIOUS paying. Slow RAM (1600 max). The 6 core Xeon only runs at 3.3GHz (I'm ignoring the dual chip Macs.. only people with their own helicopters can afford them
) and turns in only 2/3rds the performance of my 3960X. Why use server chips and registered memory in a desktop machine? Waste of money.What you're forgetting, is that I would not be selling this computer intact. I'd sell the parts, and I'd only need to sell SOME of them. The case, PSU, memory, drives.. they'd all be fine to use in the next machine. You'd probably have to sell the Mac Pro in it's entirety, so sorry... You'll incur a bigger loss than I will.
Macs are lovely... I have no issue with them. However, you pay twice as much, and get half as much IMO.
Noooo!!... not A HUNDRED MEGABYTES!!!.... OH MY GOD!!!!
Move along.. nothing to see here.
Lets be honest... image editing requires CPU grunt, great memory bandwidth, and an efficient CPU/RAM controller.
http://www.primatelabs.com/geekbench/ It's one of the few genuinely cross platform benchmarks there is.
Let's see what's what. Anyone with a high end Mac wanna step up? Show us where you money went.
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Its not void at all - the key word was 'could'. I'll still wager it fetched more money then a 3 year old PC of your spec 'could'. You may choose to split it, and upgrade parts (same as I chose to sell my MP because having something lighter is my prime concern - nothing to do with having to)
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Stability & reliability ... 5 years with a Mac, not a single crash or registry issue, 15 years with PC's always having to fix something or solve a problem with the OS.
I have a fair collection of books on how to sort out problems with Windows OS, I have none for the Mac, never needed one.
I use the computer for work, I am freelance so time is money, or more to the point time lost fixing a PC is made up at evenings and weekends.
In the beginning I ran with high end Evesham machines, these were the boys to use and whilst generally reliable, they still had issues that needed attending to.
If I went back to using a PC I would probably build my own, that way I could select the best quality components to use, and it is not a difficult thing to do.
Best advice to the OP would be go and try a Mac in a store, if you like it buy one, if not build your own PC and spend the difference on a new lens.
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The 6 core Xeon only runs at 3.3GHz (I'm ignoring the dual chip Macs.. only people with their own helicopters can afford them
dunno - but I'm a photographer not a PC/Mac geek. There must be a reason 'cause Apple, HP & lenovo all seem to run xeons in their top end workstations.
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if you cant build a stable PC in 15 years then maybe its time to step away
macs dont have a "registry" persay so that explains that one.. seriously though if youre having a stability issue it could point to a hardware issue. and given that modern macs and pc all use the same hardware one platform is more vulnerable to that than the other
but these days XP, vista (service packed) and 7 are all rock solid when built correctly.
for the record ive got windows boxes that have been running for months without reboots. and boxes with less uptime but have never crashed.
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even my 2nd gen i7-2600 benchmarks significantly faster than the mac pro's xeon W3565 and the chip used in the twin xeon (albeit when compared to a single) E5645. and is also significantly better value.
pookey is right, the mac pros are ridiculously old spec.
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I'm not disagreeing, they only things I've ever said are.
1. It comes down purely to preference.
2. Theres a resale consideration (which apparently is void cause you don't sell PCs
3. Why do both Apple, and various other PC makers use that XEON's in their high end workstations if there is no reason? (Genuine question BTW)
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some xeons are worth it, the E5-1620 used in dells precision workstations for example benchmarks well. but the ones used in the mac pros specifically are old and not worth the price tag.
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if you cant build a stable PC in 15 years then maybe its time to step away
I built two Neil, for the kids and they are still going strong, if I ever decide to return to using a PC I would build my own.
The Evesham machines that I used were great, however they were not without the occasional blip, the problem that swayed me to Mac was that one Sunday evening my Evesham machine went bang, I needed a PC for my work the next day, my only choice was an off the shelf machine locally ... running Vista.
This lead to ten weeks of frustration the hardware company blamed the software, the software company blamed the hardware, I was loosing a day a week trying to get the bloody thing to work ... that is several thousand pound in lost earnings, so I bit the bullet and went for the Mac.
Had Evesham still been trading I would no doubt have got another PC from them and would never have gone the Mac route.
As I said a computer to me is a work tool, and all I want is it to be reliable, I am not too fussed with benchmark scores, I just need the thing to work every time I turn it on.
Anyway I must go and defrag my hard drive, and check the registry for errors
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I built two Neil, for the kids and they are still going strong, if I ever decide to return to using a PC I would build my own.
The Evesham machines that I used were great, however they were not without the occasional blip, the problem that swayed me to Mac was that one Sunday evening my Evesham machine went bang, I needed a PC for my work the next day, my only choice was an off the shelf machine locally ... running Vista.
This lead to ten weeks of frustration the hardware company blamed the software, the software company blamed the hardware, I was loosing a day a week trying to get the bloody thing to work ... that is several thousand pound in lost earnings, so I bit the bullet and went for the Mac.
Had Evesham still been trading I would no doubt have got another PC from them and would never have gone the Mac route.
As I said a computer to me is a work tool, and all I want is it to be reliable, I am not too fussed with benchmark scores, I just need the thing to work every time I turn it on.
Anyway I must go and defrag my hard drive, and check the registry for errors
i had an evesham back in the early 2000's (i think), if i remember rightly it was cutting edge for its time.. amd 1400
their support was rubbish though. their office was just down the road, they were a very small outfit.
defrag? does anyone still waste hours of their life with that?
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thank you
. I have to agree - the mac pros generally aren't worth the money now. A few years ago maybe and I'll be very interested to see what apple do to replace them (if they do anything)
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thank you
in their time they were awesome machines. i remember when we had 7-8 new ones arrive, top of the line.. now theyre a bit "meh".
personally the skeptic in me says they wont build another powerhouse and theyll water it down to not compete too much with the imac.
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Mac Pro's are due to be replaced this year, according to Tim Cook, last year. announcement at WWDC expected. Not holding breath though.
Also current Mac Pro's are now no longer on sale in Europe due to EEC regs about fans not being covered and someone could get their figure into them
Plus they were, as Neil said, outdated .
To get back to the OP's original question, As I said try a Mac. If you like it and can afford it fine. If you find a PC that's as good then also fine. It all depends what you are comfortable with. I can't comment on Microsofts OS as I last played with XP which was an excellent OS , but couldn't get on with Vista, so that's why I switched to Mac.
My Son who DJ's a lot was on PC laptops, but had a nightmare with some of his software with Win7. He switched to a MacBook Pro and hasn't looked back since.
But as I said it's personal preferences If you like the mac system fine, if you are happy with PC's then that's another option. It is in the end your decison, but do try a mac before you buy, it could save you a lot of money if it's a mistake, or confirm it's the right choice
Also current Mac Pro's are now no longer on sale in Europe due to EEC regs about fans not being covered and someone could get their figure into them
Plus they were, as Neil said, outdated .To get back to the OP's original question, As I said try a Mac. If you like it and can afford it fine. If you find a PC that's as good then also fine. It all depends what you are comfortable with. I can't comment on Microsofts OS as I last played with XP which was an excellent OS , but couldn't get on with Vista, so that's why I switched to Mac.
My Son who DJ's a lot was on PC laptops, but had a nightmare with some of his software with Win7. He switched to a MacBook Pro and hasn't looked back since.
But as I said it's personal preferences If you like the mac system fine, if you are happy with PC's then that's another option. It is in the end your decison, but do try a mac before you buy, it could save you a lot of money if it's a mistake, or confirm it's the right choice
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I think you're right - I think apple nowdays are more interested in shiney things for people to play facebook on
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i read that, but there was another article saying that the fans didnt breach any regs?
all a bit sus to me.
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Of course it would. In the same way a Maybach would cost more than a 3 year old RS. The total cost of ownership would be far higher though and the RS would probably get you from A to B quicker on top.
It isn't about absolute resale values, but total cost of ownership (and not having multiple £k sitting under/ontop of a desk when it could be used elsewhere).
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I suspect if you were buying a Maybach absolute top speed wouldn't be your first concern, but thats by the by.And a very flawed analogy.
All I know is my MP cost in the region of 2k, I spent around £600 on upgrades and sold it with maybe £400 of those still on it for £1,300. That means that 3 years (faultless) IT cost me around £1,100 (or £350 ish a year). Thats total cost of ownership. BTW we were comparing to a PC of around the same value, so your capital arguments are valid, but not really relevant.
Tell me you honestly believe a £2k PC would sell for the same sort of value.
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I guarantee that, for £1,100, you could have purchased a better spec laptop, then sold it on after two years for probably £700. That would be a total cost of ownership of £400, not £1100.
PC are virtually always much cheaper in the short and long run than the equivalent spec Mac.
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I'm prepared to bet you couldn't
- how can you make that statement without knowing what the spec was?ETA - Actually show me anywhere, any make that sells laptops with 24gb RAM, SSD, 5TB internal storage plus 2.8GHX xeon processors.You can't cause nobody does. It's a workstation, compared to a PC workstation. Where does laptops come in? TBH People accuse mac users of being fanboys. But your post just shows that there are some PC users just the same. Why don't you re-read what I'd written? And considering that I'm going to bow politley out of this thread.
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I have a £1300 PC which is faster than your Mac. Even if I sold it for £300, I would still have lost less, had £1000 or more in the bank and had a faster machine for 3 years. But then I wouldn't sell it whole, I'd just upgrade the innards.
If you're talking about laptops, I have a Dell XPS/quad core i7, full HD screen with SSD in. It cost £1100 in total. Even if I gave it away after 3 years, it would still have cost me less to own than a MBP of similar specs.
It isn't about absolutes, but relative differences
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And there's the rub... People don't buy PCs that cost the same as Macs.....
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I'm prepared to bet you couldn't
ETA - Actually show me anywhere, any make that sells laptops with 24gb RAM, SSD, 5TB internal storage plus 2.8GHX xeon processors.You can't cause nobody does. It's a workstation, compared to a PC workstation. Where does laptops come in? TBH People accuse mac users of being fanboys. But your post just shows that there are some PC users just the same. Why don't you re-read what I'd written? And considering that I'm going to bow politley out of this thread.
I'm sorry, not sure where I got laptops from, but that actually proves my point more so - desktops are cheaper than laptops
As for fanboys - my post was just facts, the fanboy here is clearly you.
I can't be bothered to find you a system right now, but it isn't hard. Just have a look at Andy's post.
LongLensPhotography
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I have a £1300 PC which is faster than your Mac. Even if I sold it for £300, I would still have lost less, had £1000 or more in the bank and had a faster machine for 3 years. But then I wouldn't sell it whole, I'd just upgrade the innards.
If you're talking about laptops, I have a Dell XPS/quad core i7, full HD screen with SSD in. It cost £1100 in total. Even if I gave it away after 3 years, it would still have cost me less to own than a MBP of similar specs.
It isn't about absolutes, but relative differences
But you are missing out on IPS retina display - the major selling point of an MBP. The comparison is thus only very superficial.
If we are going to compare a 3 year old outdated mac pro design to the latest custom built sever grade PC we surely won't get very far. Let's wait for a new model and then do that - you are allowed to insult apple for being like that as far as you want
. For now anyone buying mac pro (new) is either desperate or not informed. (in fact you can't even buy them now)So Apple users are automatically fanboys, but does it not work the other way round. MS fanboys anyone?
Perhaps you should consider that I am a *NIX "fanboy" instead, just so it happens that OS X fits the bill best at the moment, unlike any other of their smaller products.
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covered in a horrid glossy outer.
when apple bring back the "anti glare" matte display IPS then i'll agree with you.
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No I'm not - I'm happy with the 1080p display I have on my Dell. You keep missing the point that just because it is your USP does not make it everyones. If it did only rMBPs would ever leave the shelves - clearly they don't.
A fanboy is someone who suggests one thing over another to the exclusion of reason. Most people "arguing" with you here are arguing with your reasoning, not whether Apple or MS based PCs are better or worse. The fanboy in you seems to be getting in the way of you seeing that
For the record, my position is if you want an Apple, go and buy one, but don't go and buy one because you've been told it is "better" than a PC without comparing the specs. They are all PCs under the hood these days and generally a Windows PC is as good as a OSX based one given similar hardware.
See I even mentioned Apple and "go and buy one" in the same sentence and did it without spitting the words out through gritted teeth
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I'm sorry, not sure where I got laptops from, but that actually proves my point more so - desktops are cheaper than laptops
mmmm thats debatable - high end workstation vs high end laptop - you'd be pushed to state that as fact
really - shall we have a quick look at the rest of my posts in this thread. Hardly any sort of fanboy. Although I do own macs, mainly for reason 1. I guess that makes me a fanboy then. :bonk: I'm not disagreeing, they only things I've ever said are.
1. It comes down purely to preference.
2. Theres a resale consideration (which apparently is void cause you don't sell PCs
3. Why do both Apple, and various other PC makers use that XEON's in their high end workstations if there is no reason? (Genuine question BTW)
thank you
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Not from Apple Stores, but you can from Apple resellers with stock.
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My main desktop PC never crashes... ever, and it's hugely overclocked. My server has been up and logged in 24 hours a day for 49 days now, and the only reason it was rebooted 49 days ago was to install updates.... and believe it or not, it's running VISTA of all things... and it's still bombproof. My wife's PC never crashes either.
The thing is with PCs... there are many kinds. Some are well designed and built from quality components. Some are crap. Don't judge all PCs by the crap one you had. Before you say "It wasn't crap"... well.. you seem to be always having problems, and I don't.
Who buys a computer for it's resale value? It's a computer, not a car. You buy the best you can get, with as little money as possible, and you use it until it becomes obsolete, then upgrade... or in the case of a PC.. upgrade parts of it.
Non that I can see for a desktop computer needing it, and I've never had a computer with ECC memory. I'd only feel the need if I was speccing a mission critical server for a large company. There's no need for a desktop.
Supposedly the security and reliability of ECC memory... that's it. Now you tell why that is necessary in a desktop environment please?
The Evesham machines that I used were great, however they were not without the occasional blip, the problem that swayed me to Mac was that one Sunday evening my Evesham machine went bang, I needed a PC for my work the next day, my only choice was an off the shelf machine locally ... running Vista.
This lead to ten weeks of frustration the hardware company blamed the software, the software company blamed the hardware, I was loosing a day a week trying to get the bloody thing to work ... that is several thousand pound in lost earnings, so I bit the bullet and went for the Mac.
Had Evesham still been trading I would no doubt have got another PC from them and would never have gone the Mac route.
As I said a computer to me is a work tool, and all I want is it to be reliable, I am not too fussed with benchmark scores, I just need the thing to work every time I turn it on.
Anyway I must go and defrag my hard drive, and check the registry for errors
Oh dear... first of all.. Evesham? Seriously... the same company that was constantly in receivership, and prosecuted several times for... let's say.. creative trading practices? Hmmm... OK.
So your "Evesham" computer went bang... stuff happens.. even a Rolls Royce can break down. So you go buy an off the shelf peice of crap running Vista.. and on the basis of that, you feel PCs are bad.
Wooooosh!!!
That was the sound of credibility flying out of the window.
Anyway.... still waiting for the Macboys to run that benchmark. They won't of course
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Those questions - all genuine, asked cause no real idea, so the ram question. Makes a nice noise as it flies past.
Your benchmarks, did run them on my MBP came out exactly as listed. I did notice it never pushed my processor past 75% or used more then half available ram. Either I'm missing something or they didn't really push things?
Your benchmarks, did run them on my MBP came out exactly as listed. I did notice it never pushed my processor past 75% or used more then half available ram. Either I'm missing something or they didn't really push things?