Woohoo, Got My First Film Back **And now asking about home developing**

68lbs

68lbs

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April 2008
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Woohoo, just got my first Holga developed film back from Peak Imaging. What a great experience... real film in my hands, and such olde worlde charm. This experience could grow on me, and I can't wait to now put through the colour slide film I have from Joxby.

However, before I proceed...

I got my first B&W developed at Peak Imaging, and because I didn't know what to expect I got a contact sheet too. This isn't particularly cost effective long term though and I'm wondering what the best solution is for getting my shots on the computer. Do I pay Peak to do it? Could I do it with a home scanner? Would I be scanning from negs or prints? What sort of equipment would I need to be looking at?

I seem to remember from the dim and distant past that you make a contact sheet by laying the negs onto photographic paper and exposing. However, the contact sheet from Peak Imaging is *VERY* neat and looks to me like the negs have been scanned already. So I am wondering if I am missing a trick here with Peak?

Anyways... those are my thoughts... any comments, advice, or abuse appreciated.

This is a whole new world... and I'm loving it! :D


EDIT: Forgot to say... Many thanks to Richard OneTen who sent me some rolls of B&W film in the first place.
 
Well done, it takes a lot these days for people to try out new things, especially OLD things!!

I have a Epson V700 scanner, its a very good bit of kit.. but, imo you would do better to get them scanned by a pro! there are quite a lot of things to mess about with in software ect.. also, to get perfectly clean scans is quite hard.. iv just spent the last hour cleaning 2 frames of 120 in Potatoshop!!..

But, if you have a fairly dust and Animal (Molting!!) free environment.. then get a scanner..
 
fraggle101 said:
iv just spent the last hour cleaning 2 frames of 120 in Potatoshop!!
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Yeah, I used to touch up raw scans from a drum scanner ready for print and it was a mare! Don't think I really want to go back to doing that.
 
They probably did scan for the contact sheet, but not at a res you could use.
They'll just be thumbnail res, no point in going dpi mad with a 1 sq inch print :LOL:

You need a neg scanner, things get expensive though for M/F, its the only way beside slide copying with a dslr.
 
There's a lot to consider. I too have had contact sheets from Peak and they're definately scanned and printed by inkjet rather than the traditional method.

I've got my own scanner (Epson 4490) because I'm a control freak but even scanning one roll of 120 can take a couple of hours of your time up by the time you've done previews, made adjustments, then scanned proper, then you might like to dabble in photoshop afterwards. Physically the scanner will pay for itself relatively quickly, but if you value your time away from a computer desk you might prefer to let some other mug do it.
 
Hmm, CD Archive 120 from Peak is just under £15 a roll. So less than ten rolls scanned to CD and that's the price of a 4490 according to a quick Googling.

I thought scanners for neg/slide used to be really expensive.

Am thinking might be worthwhile just for scanning and turning into +'ves for onscreen use and proofing. Then if I find a shot I'd like bigger I could spend the time, or pay for a proper scan. Looking at just a neg, I can't really tell if a shot is good or not.
 
You will with slide..

Wait, this is a holga, its not known for its uber sharp lifelike renditions anyway.
You need a 10x8 field cam...:LOL:
 
The other thing is, of a roll of 12 shots only two might be worth any effort (anything I class as mediocre gets no attention) so you'll pay whoever processes your film to scan 10 shots of crap (in my case). That's when having your own scanner is good, you can scan the two frames you want and ignore the rest. Having said that I only do it with B&W and slide, I find print negatives too difficult to judge yet (hence why I never shoot it at the moment).
 
If you're going to scan then you might as well dev at home too. Especially for b&w. You could kit yourself out to dev fim (chems, tank, jugs, thermometer, storage containers & changing bag) for under £100. Developing then costs pence rather than pounds and it's more fun than you can imagine! Fingers smelling of fixer last a lifetime ;)

Its not overly hard too. Buy some real cheap b&w film to play with and don't shoot anything important til you have the hang of it. I can pretty much guarantee you will have it sorted after 1 roll!

As for scanners, epson 4490 is cheap and perfectly adequate for prints up to a3 size from a MF frame. Epson v700 is marginally better, maybe not worth the relative price hike.

If you have money to burn then the Nikon Coolscan 9000 will rival most drum scanners. It will cost a couple of grand though :)
 
Gandhi said:
If you're going to scan then you might as well dev at home too.
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Whilst I love the idea of this, I'm not sure my house/homestyle is right. Do you need a dark room? How much space do you need?
 
I do my deving in the kitchen. You only need a darkrrom for printing, for developing you just need a big changing bag.
 
Kev M said:
for developing you just need a big changing bag.
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Presumably not the sort the missus has for the kids?

Hmmm, I might do a little exploring on flebay if I get time today :)
 
I'd strongly reccomend a epson v300 if you are on a budget. You can't go wrong for £80.

The only problem is no dust removal method so you'll have to do it manually in photoshop I'm afraid :(

scanning quality is great as long as the exposure was spot on.

sid
 
That's it exactly...

although I don't use a changing bag, I just black a room out :)
 
Ok, just to clarify some of this in my mind...

Using 120 film, the only bit i'd need to do in the changing bag is unload the film from the camera, and wind it onto this spiral thing, pop into the dev tank and stick the lid on.

After this, you just sit it on the side in the kitchen and pour in your various chems, insert, wait, rinse, etc.

Pull the film out and hang above the bath to dry.

So... couple of questions...

How toxic or horrible are the chemicals? I have another kid due in 1 month and missus won't be keen on any fumes or other things around the kitchen. Don't think I'd be too keen if the chemicals bleached my Iroko worktop either! Do you need different chems for different film? If I stuck to just B&W neg film would it matter on brand of film/iso speed etc?

The film I used at the mo is Neopan 400 from OneTen if it matters.

And finally... what sort of chemicals would I need to buy? brand/etc? I read about the 'stop' not being needed, is this right?
 
68lbs said:
Ok, just to clarify some of this in my mind...

Using 120 film, the only bit i'd need to do in the changing bag is unload the film from the camera, and wind it onto this spiral thing, pop into the dev tank and stick the lid on.
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You don't need to unload the camera in the dark, the film will be wound on to the take-up spool.
You need to load the spiral and put it in the tank in the dark.

68lbs said:
After this, you just sit it on the side in the kitchen and pour in your various chems, insert, wait, rinse, etc.

Pull the film out and hang above the bath to dry.
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correct

68lbs said:
How toxic or horrible are the chemicals? I have another kid due in 1 month and missus won't be keen on any fumes or other things around the kitchen. Don't think I'd be too keen if the chemicals bleached my Iroko worktop either! Do you need different chems for different film? If I stuck to just B&W neg film would it matter on brand of film/iso speed etc?
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B/W chemicals aren't dangerous, I mean I wouldn't drink any, but they're not caustic nasty like the bleaches used in colour development.
The fumes aren't deadly either, I don't bother with ventilation specifically for toxic gasses when I develop a few rolls of B/W, they don't smell an awful lot either.
It's always better to be nice and clean with kids about though, if you can do it in an area where they won't be going, there's less chance of them glugging a bottle of fixer or picking up drips of developer on their hands.
Most B/W films can be developed in most developers, only the concentration and timings change.
B/W is easy home job because the developing takes place at 20 degrees room temp, colour is different the temp is higher and all the chemicals rinses and bleaches all need to be maintained at that higher temp in heated baths & wotnot.

68lbs said:
And finally... what sort of chemicals would I need to buy? brand/etc? I read about the 'stop' not being needed, is this right?
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Ilfosol S and fixer....any you like really as recommended by the film manufacturer
Some peeps use stop, some don't, using stop is a more reliable way of ensuring the developing process is halted, but to be honest its never been an issue with the films I've used, water works fine for me.
 
Neat dev can be pretty nasty, especially if you use some of the more esoteric ones. As Joxby says, you don't need stop, water works just fine in most cases.

I'd try and use a liquid dev as a one shot though. I hate messing about with powder devs generally and the liquid ones are far more economical. You can re-use the fixer so just tip it back inthe bottle when you've fixed your film.

There are plenty of good tutorials on the web. Get stuck in! Nothing beats the feeling. well, apart from one or two things ;)
 
Gandhi said:
I'd try and use a liquid dev as a one shot though.
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Yep, that's what I was looking at. How much do you use to develop a single roll of 120? Any idea how many rolls you'd get developed in 1L? Does it go-off (have an expiry date?) And a Paterson Universal tank?
 
Unopened developers last a long while, once opened it varies, Rodinal sometimes last years in a half full bottle, yet my HC110 went bad in a month.
A patterson super system 4 tank takes 1 120 spiral or 2 35mm spirals and 500ml of mixture.
I think I measure 35ml of Ilfosol to go in 465ml of water, so a half litre bottle will do about 15 rolls of 120 @ 10 minute dilution, you can dilute it even more but the development takes longer.
Everything varies, to be exact you have to be specific, what film, what developer.
The massive development chart will tell you the timings and dilution for virtually any film developer combination, what they don't say is what effect/characteristics/qualities each film/dev combo have.
You can research, but finding out through experience is more fun. :)
 
you cant go very wrong if you're scanning too.

Scanners will compensate for a whole load of exposure/dev errors as opposed to wet printing
 
buying a scanner is a good idea, along with a home dark room:LOL:

you don't need a whole dark room, but you can buy a black-out bag, a developing tank and the chemicals needed! then you have the negatives.

with the negatives you can take them to (some) developing places and just get them scanned. it works out quite cheap at the place near me!
 
AleksanderLoesch said:
buying a scanner is a good idea, along with a home dark room:LOL:

you don't need a whole dark room, but you can buy a black-out bag, a developing tank and the chemicals needed! then you have the negatives.

with the negatives you can take them to (some) developing places and just get them scanned. it works out quite cheap at the place near me!
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Whats this place then Aleks?

I'm looking for a cheap/decent C41 developer around london.

sid
 
its called bayerux (www.bayeux.co.uk/)

I haven't used them for a while though (dunno about price rises/lowerings)

but they made better quality prints and developing (and can do "pushing/pulling"- which boots/snappy snaps doesn't near me). -BUT! Its the same price as boots/snappy snaps next day service (and its same day or next day at bayerux). Plus they give just over 10% discounts for students (it was 12% for some reason last time for me!)

they are quite nice inside!

and when I collected my films someone showed up to collect The Times prints for the next day, and a huge print of Friedlanders too!
 
I payed £5.40 (student discount) thats cheaper than next/same day processing at the snappy snaps and boots around me (and better quality). -However, I do live in central london (Oxford st) full of tourists and price hikes because of it!

B+W is also cheaper at bayerux than s-s's
 
Guys,

Sorry to rehash an oldish thread. Am I right in thinking, by using a scanner, and if I DO NOT want prints, then I can literally take my 120 roll from the camera, and get it on my computer? Oh...and round of applause for me, my very first film forum post :D I think...

Gary.
 
EdinburghGary said:
Guys,

Sorry to rehash an oldish thread. Am I right in thinking, by using a scanner, and if I DO NOT want prints, then I can literally take my 120 roll from the camera, and get it on my computer? Oh...and round of applause for me, my very first film forum post :D I think...

Gary.
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I imagine it'd need developing first mate! ;) Use your local shop to dev the negs, then scan them. (y)
 
irw1 said:
I imagine it'd need developing first mate! ;) Use your local shop to dev the negs, then scan them. (y)
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So developing the negs and printing them are two very different things? I always thought you popped down to boots or whatever, handed over the film, and went back a day later for finished prints in an envelope.

I cannot get across how ignorant I am to the ENTIRE spectrum of "FILM photography". In my head, you take the film, stick it in a magic sink, and hang prints up to dry. Just like in the movies.

I am totally clueless and out of my depth, it's AWESOME! :D

Gary.
 
Dev and Print are two seperate stages mate. The roll goes from the camera into a light tight bag where it is loaded into the developing tank. Add some chemicals, act like Tom Cruise in coctail, pour the chemicals out and you have your negatives (positives if shooting slide/transparency). Negatives then go into a machine if being done in a batch or into an enlarger if you want to make one print at a time (at least that's my understanding).
 
EdinburghGary said:
So developing the negs and printing them are two very different things? I always thought you popped down to boots or whatever, handed over the film, and went back a day later for finished prints in an envelope.

I cannot get across how ignorant I am to the ENTIRE spectrum of "FILM photography". In my head, you take the film, stick it in a magic sink, and hang prints up to dry. Just like in the movies.

I am totally clueless and out of my depth, it's AWESOME! :D

Gary.
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Yep.

The negs are developed first. Taken out of camera in a darkroom, (very important not to expose them to light at this stage!) developed either by hand, or more often now, by machine, and you end up with a nice long strip that you can hold up to the light and see the (inverted, negative,) images. :D Prints can be done from here, either scanned and printed or done in the darkroom.

You'll get it mate - of that I have no doubt. Really looking forward to seeing your first results too.

Best of luck. :D
 
Kev M said:
Dev and Print are two seperate stages mate. The roll goes from the camera into a light tight bag where it is loaded into the developing tank. Add some chemicals, act like Tom Cruise in coctail, pour the chemicals out and you have your negatives (positives if shooting slide/transparency). Negatives then go into a machine if being done in a batch or into an enlarger if you want to make one print at a time (at least that's my understanding).
Click to expand...

So without me doing any home devving, whats the easiest and best way for me to get the best possible images on my PC?

Gary.
 
EdinburghGary said:
So without me doing any home devving, whats the easiest and best way for me to get the best possible images on my PC?

Gary.
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Get negs deved at shop. Buy scanner, either neg scanner or flatbed with transparancy lid. Scan onto computer - job done. :D

Some place will dev, scan and burn to CD for you too.
 
That's why I told you to buy some slide/transparency film. Send it to the lab then hold it up to a window and enjoy it. No need for a PC anywhere.

Scanning is a whole other ballgame, there's been a few threads on it. Like everything else in photography you get what you pay for and they can get quite expensive. At that point you ask yourself whether that money and time would be better spend letting a lab do the scanning (depending on whether they've got the tea boy using a cheap flatbed or if they're got a mega bucks drum scanner). The problem with scanning for me is that it's just more time sat in front of a poxy computer, storing images on a hard drive rarely to be seen again (although it's neceassary so I can show them here and get told where I ****ed it up this time;)).

Stuff the scanner, buy yourself a darkroom and start making prints.
 
Getting the shots from the film onto your puter, in some form of decent quality , is not cheap. No getting around that.

You have the option of spending a chunk of time, or spending a chunk of money. Well, being photography, there is always the option to spend lots of both. :LOL:

If you have little, or plenty of each, then I'd go for getting a good lab to process and scan the results onto disk for you.
 
All the processing places I've checked out seem to scan negatives at a crappy resolution and you end up with 1 meg files that to my mine are neither use nor ornament. Unless you then want to spend 20 or 30 quid for them to scan at a useful resolution.
 
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