Woohoo, Got My First Film Back **And now asking about home developing**

dazzajl said:
Getting the shots from the film onto your puter, in some form of decent quality , is not cheap. No getting around that.

You have the option of spending a chunk of time, or spending a chunk of money. Well, being photography, there is always the option to spend lots of both. :LOL:

If you have little, or plenty of each, then I'd go for getting a good lab to process and scan the results onto disk for you.
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I might buy an Epson V700 or V750, Blapto recommended it. Would it do a decent job of scanning the negatives?

Gary.
 
There are 3 basic types of film:
Black and White negative (needs to be processed in black and white chemicals, and the film comes out backwards - like pressing the 'invert' button in photoshop)
Colour negative (generally needs to be processed in C-41 chemicals - any photo lab can do these. colours will be inverted.)
Transparency (also known as 'slide' film since they are usually seen mounted onto 'slides' so you can view them on a projecter - needs to be processed in E-6 chemicals, not many places do these, but when viewed, colours are as you would expect them to be.)

35mm (135 in some places) is for 35mm cameras
120 is 'medium format' - the stuff you've thrown yourself head first into. This is nowhere near as universal as 35mm - you'll need to take it to pro labs to get developed, especially black and white negative and transparency (however those two are the best types :p) - colour negative (C-41) 120 film can be processed at Jessops, however they can't put it onto a CD for you.

Step 1: shoot
Step 2: develop film in total darkness (either at a lab or at home)
step 3: scan or print (either on a computer with a decent flatbed/drum scanner or in a darkroom)

Gary, if you've never been in a darkroom, I seriously recommend you find one to go in.
Nothing I have used has matched the sheer pleasure from printing your own photographs.

You find yourself really looking at your photographs, rather than scan, upload to flickr, get slated on here for technical inadequacies, and then shoved to the back of a harddrive never to be seen again.
Film is a whole different experience to digital, they could almost be divided into two separate hobbies, however the results are no where near instantaneous. It takes a lot of time to even get a print from film, but my god is it worth it.
 
EdinburghGary said:
So developing the negs and printing them are two very different things? I always thought you popped down to boots or whatever, handed over the film, and went back a day later for finished prints in an envelope.

I cannot get across how ignorant I am to the ENTIRE spectrum of "FILM photography". In my head, you take the film, stick it in a magic sink, and hang prints up to dry. Just like in the movies.

I am totally clueless and out of my depth, it's AWESOME! :D

Gary.
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Yes 2 processes.
film has to be loaded into the developing tank in total darkness (NO safelight!), once sealed in the tank though the process is very easy, and reasonably tolerant. Pour in the dev, carefully invert as per instructions and after the set amount of time pour out. Repeat with either a stop bath or plain water wash - to remove all the developer, otherwise the fixer doesn't last so long. Then repeat again with the fixer solution, then a final running water wash, and finally a still water wash with a little rinse aid (worth it, as this really does reduce the risk of drying marks.) - Remove the strips of film, and squeegee off the worst of the water, then hang up in a dust free environement. (at this stage the emulsion is tacky, and WILL be damaged if you touch it, or if dust gets on it.) (If you have a dedicated room, you can easily make a drying cabinet with a cheap hair dryer and some screw in hooks) Once your negs are fully dry, you can move onto stage 2(y)

Stage 2 - Printing,

This is done under safelight (RED) Once your eyes get used to it, you can see perfectly well as it's reasonably bright. The three stages are the same (Developer, wash, fix and final wash) but it's a different developing chemical, and the fixer is mixed to a different strength. You can watch the print appearing in the developer, then once it is fully immersed in the fixer put on the white light.

You'll enjoy it!
 
OK, I think I am going to make my life easier by taking the following route for the time being.


1: Take POLAROIDS to proof my photos in the field.

2: Have my film developed in a pro lab.

3: Buy a scanner to get them onto the PC.

After a while, and once I feel I can justify the effort, I will attempt to home dev.

So, now I need to know what the best quality scanner is, without spending CRAZY money (thousands).

Gary.
 
EdinburghGary said:
...So, now I need to know what the best quality scanner is, without spending CRAZY money (thousands).

Gary.
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I've got the V750 Pro at work mate - for the money, (ie: without spending thousands,) it's a very nice bit of kit indeed.(y)

Scanning negs and trannies can be a little bit tricker than scanning photos though - takes a little practice imho. Might be worth getting your first few negs pro scanned when you get them developed, and comparing them to your own scans once you have the scanner. This way you'll know for sure how good your camera technique is, vs your scanning skills. :D
 
joxby said:
B/W chemicals aren't dangerous, I mean I wouldn't drink any, but they're not caustic nasty like the bleaches used in colour development.
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I will agree that black and white chemicals are not dangerous but on a technical note, developer can be caustic. Most developers contain some sort of carbonate to buffer the solution to an alkaline but you probably have much more caustic solutions in your kitchen for cleaning drains.

It is possible to make a developer from water, coffee granules and caustic soda.



Steve.
 
Oh yes..... For answers to more film based questions you could ever imagine, have a look at APUG.ORG

Analog Photography Users Group (no digital talk allowed!).



Steve
 
Gary,

Nice to see you joining the ranks of the "pipe & slippers" sub-forum!

Get an epson v750 but if you are going to be scanning MF film you might want to get the fancy film holders from the states to get the very best from the scanner. Its a lot of messing about though to get good scans, adjusting heights etc.

The other option is the Nikon Coolscan 9000ED. Probably the best medium format scanner for home use. Will give you really big and sharp scans, more so than the epson. Only problem is the price. About 2k new.

I'd get the Epson personally, as it would mean I could buy a lot more film with the difference and practise more.

Theres a good place in Edinburgh called Trumps that devs MF quite cheaply, I'm sure somebody on here has reccomended them before.
 
Gandhi said:
Gary,

Nice to see you joining the ranks of the "pipe & slippers" sub-forum!

Get an epson v750 but if you are going to be scanning MF film you might want to get the fancy film holders from the states to get the very best from the scanner. Its a lot of messing about though to get good scans, adjusting heights etc.

The other option is the Nikon Coolscan 9000ED. Probably the best medium format scanner for home use. Will give you really big and sharp scans, more so than the epson. Only problem is the price. About 2k new.

I'd get the Epson personally, as it would mean I could buy a lot more film with the difference and practise more.

Theres a good place in Edinburgh called Trumps that devs MF quite cheaply, I'm sure somebody on here has reccomended them before.
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Hi Mate,

I hate faffing about, and if I buy the Epson V750 and have to spend 3 hours getting it to scan a photo correctly, I will throw it through a window. Would the £2K scanner require the same faffing?

Gary.
 
I am buying a metering prism finder and polaroid back this morning. I will try and crack polaroid before moving onto the whole conundrum of devving and scanning.

I guess I can scan my polaroids with any old crappy scanner? :)

Gary.
 
Yep, any old flatbed will scan you polaroids. Bloody expensive way of doing it though. Use a couple of Polaroids to test your exposure then get some film in there. The beuty of interchangeable backs is the fact you can swap between film and polaroid and a different film mid roll by changing the backs over, there's no need to finish one type of film off so you can use a different one like you do with 35mm cameras.

I've not used a V750 but I don't know if they need the american film holders (www.betterscanning.com) as much as the 4490 does (IMO). I believe the film holder the V750 comes with has adjustable height anyway, the only thing the betterscaning film holder add is the glass to keep the film perfectly flat. If you think of the scanner like a camera then it needs to focus on what it is scanning, you can't change the lens position so you raise or lower the media you are scanning with the film holder. It might take an hour or so to set up to achieve the sharpest scans but once done it should be set for good. If you're inclined have a quick read on the better scanning site about setting up the film holders, you need a sharp shot to start with so get your tripod out. If you're going to do it you're best off doing it right away so that you don't feel the need to re-scan images you scanned before setting up the height of the ilm holder if you find it makes an improvement.
 
EPSON V700 REVIEW

It's a bloody ace scanner. ;)

The V750 is going to be marginally better, but to get scans of that quality you need to use the glass plate which comes with it and the scanning solution to keep the negs in contact with the plate. It's a messy process for a return which many wouldn't even notice, and the solution doesn't come with the scanner.

The reviewer in the above review later reviewed the V750 and opted for the V700.
 
CT said:
EPSON V700 REVIEW

It's a bloody ace scanner. ;)

The V750 is going to be marginally better, but to get scans of that quality you need to use the glass plate which comes with it and the scanning solution to keep the negs in contact with the plate. It's a messy process for a return which many wouldn't even notice, and the solution doesn't come with the scanner.

The reviewer in the above review later reviewed the V750 and opted for the V700.
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Cheers CT.

I have got my prism / meter finder thingy now, and a polaroid back with 20 exposures. Getting ever so close to taking the first photo!! :D

Trouble is, I haven't a clue how to attach the finder, put the polaroid in the back, put the back on the camera, wind the film, press the shutter....ANYTHING in fact. Manual time!!! :D

Gary.
 
I think the hood I just bought is NOT what you recommended CT. Looking at the manual, it would appear to be the "PD Magnifying Hood".

As seen here:
capturejhi.jpg


Gary.
 
LOL. There's no grass growing under your feet with this Gary! :LOL:

Turn your new chimney finder upside down and have a good look at the glass plate. Is it clear from smeary filmy deposits - particularly on the inside of the glass? They're usually OK, but I've seen some really gungy ones.

Setting up the meter.

The meter has to be calibrated to the max aperture of the lens you're using. The knob on the side of the housing has two dials on it which you pull out and turn to alter a setting.

The outside dial is simple enough - pull it out and turn it to set the ISO of the film.

The inside dial has the orange shutter speed numbers on it it but it also has four white aperture numbers. You have to pull out the inside dial and turn it till the white aperture number corresponds with the max aperture of whichever lens you're using.

Once you've set both dials the job's done.

To take a meter reading look through the viewfinder and turn the inside dial (it's the only one which turns freely anyway) until you've centred your needle in the viewfinder.

You now read off the available aperture and shutter speed conbinations on the dial on the side of the housing by seeing which are aligned with each other, and manually make those settings on the lens.

It's a bit of a ritual compared to your DSLR, but you'll probably grow to love it. ;)

Can't help with the Polaroid back but no doubt someone else will.
 
b*****d! - that's obviously a later version than mine with an LED display, but otherwise pretty much the same.

I never knew this version existed tbh, but it looks like you also get spot metering which is pretty cool.
 
To remove the waist level finder, the Mamiya name plate on the front of the finder slides to one side to release it. There may or may not be a button under the plate you need to press. Then just slide the finder towards the back of the camera to remove it.

To fit your new finder just slide it in from the back. Make sure the name plate is slid to one side first and once it's seated slide the name plate back.

Make absolutely sure it's seated properly!!
 
Thanks CT.

I am starting to think the shop has sold me the incorrect back too, it seems MUCH bigger than the other backs, and I can see no logical way of attaching it (I have no problem attaching the other backs).

Also, the hood - I can not see any LED / Electronic display. I see the needls and I can swing the needle, and by pushing a red test button, it swings fast.

This is absolutely confusing as hell.

Gary.
 
I have an RB67 Polaroid back but I have not used it yet.

I see you already have one. I was going to offer you mine on loan.

To fit the back, you need to remove the revolving adaptor which holds the 120 film backs. The Polaroid back does not rotate but gives you a 7x7cm image. If you are using it to proof a film shot then you need to appreciate where the 6x7 crop will be. i.e. vertical or horizontal.

As for loading the film pack, I believe there are instructions printed inside the Polaroid holder. If not then try to find the instructions for any Polaroid pack film camera such as the Swinger.

You place the pack film in the holder and put the paper tab out through the slot before closing the back. That tab is then pulled to ready the first piece of film and another tab comes out. Each time you take a picture you pull the tab which removes the film/print from the camera and also pulls through the next tab.

After the correct time (30 seconds?) peel the film and paper apart and you should have your print.

This may help: http://option8.110mb.com/polaroid/FAQ/faqtrouble.loadfilm.pack.html


The Polaroid back is a lot bigger than the 120 backs in width and height but is about 1 1/4" thick.



Steve.
 
OK it sounds like you have the same finder as me and if the needle is deflecting then it's working OK by the look of it.

Can you stick up a pic of the back which is causing the probs? If it's much squarer than the other backs you have it may be a back for the later Pro SD camera. I think it will fit your camera with an adapter, but there are plenty of RB backs about without that hassle. ;)
 
Doh.. I think you're talking about the Polaroid back Gary? I assumed you'd bought another film back.

As Steve says, the Polaroid backs are much bigger than your standard backs.
 
CT said:
Doh.. I think you're talking about the Polaroid back Gary? I assumed you'd bought another film back.

As Steve says, the Polaroid backs are much bigger than your standard backs.
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CHeers CT.
With regards to developing the polaroid, it says 120 seconds or so. Does that mean I leave it in the camera for 120 seconds after firing the shutter?

Or pull it out, wait 120 seconds, and then do something else?

Gary.
 
It doesn't start developing until you pull it out. Do that- put it down somewhere and wait for 2 minutes. :D

Have you managed to fit the Polaroid back? I think you may need a P adapter. Steve?
 
AWESOME, I MIGHT ACTUALLY SHED A MAN TEAR :D

Its a **** photo but its a photo, its relatively decently exposed for Photo number 1!!!! :D

Gary.
 
LOL. I know you're dead keen Gary, but spend some time taking the camera to bits and putting it back together again - generally getting a good handle on how it all works.

Possibly the best MF camera ever made mate. ;)
 
EdinburghGary said:
With regards to developing the polaroid, it says 120 seconds or so. Does that mean I leave it in the camera for 120 seconds after firing the shutter?

Or pull it out, wait 120 seconds, and then do something else?
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Pulling the tab brings the film and paper parts together through the rollers which also bursts the bag od developing solution. The rollers cause the developer to spread out evenly* between the two parts.

The 120 seconds starts as soon as you have pulled the print out of the camera.

* Make sure you pull the tab evenly and in one operation. If you stop and start again you may get uneven development lines across the print.


Steve.
 
CT said:
OK it sounds like you have the same finder as me and if the needle is deflecting then it's working OK by the look of it.
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Was charged £160 - conned? If so, I will take it back.

Gary.
 
EdinburghGary said:
Was charged £160 - conned? If so, I will take it back.

Gary.
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No that's about right for a nice one in working condition - particularly from a dealer, and they're not that easy to come by. I'd hang onto it. ;)
 
Medium format with meters and prisms, I don't know. What is the world coming to. :(:thumbsdown:


Why don't you just add autofocus, some motor drive and reduce the poor bloomin thing to digital capture while your at it.

Oh yeah, that'd be my camera. :LOL:

I can actually see why 6*45 cameras went that way, as they're so teeny tiny but do any of you find an RB at all usable help up to eye level?
 
dazzajl said:
I can actually see why 6*45 cameras went that way, as they're so teeny tiny but do any of you find an RB at all usable help up to eye level?
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Using this prism of Gary's in all honesty.. yes. It adds little weight to the camera and the camera sits high on the chest, you just drop your head to look down and use it. It also has dioptre correction which is a boon for me,

The eye level prisms are usable hand held but have to be lifted higher, so in all honesty I'd say more of a tripod mounted proposition.
 
The Polaroid back should fit in the same way a film back does, it will be a different shape but the method will be the same.
I think the thing you might struggle a bit with (without instructions) is loading it with polaroids.
Just a pointer for Polaroids on M/F cameras, Polaroids are used just to check exposure and composition before shooting the good stuff, they aren't the size of the polaroids you're used to seeing out of consumer polaroid camers, they are in effect the same size as what would be captured on film, so in the case of an RB 60mmx70mm or there abouts.
The actual polaroid film you buy is bigger than you need for 6x7 because the same film covers all the M/F formats up to 6x9.
For warned is forarmed :)

omg, I've missed 40 posts in this thread somehow:bonk:
 
Oh do RZ67 polaroid backs (or any RZ67 back for that matter) fit on RB67s?
 
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