Working out how water is getting in....

srichards

srichards

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Suz
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The horizontal rain is here so I have a kitchen window that may as well not be there. Water is pouring in through the top of it between the frame and the edge of the tiling. I have sealed all round outside it with massive amount of all weather sealant. It is still pouring through. Bottom of the frame is also leaking and pouring water in down the wall.

Rest of the same windows don't leak at all! Even rotten looking ones are ok. Why is the kitchen one so bad?? The design of the house means there is a slight ledge right above the window. I've also tried adding flashing above the window and adding sealant along this ledge thinking it might be soaking down. Nothing. Still leaks like buggery.

I've literally covered every square inch with sealant on that flaming window and still it leaks. How?? I've sealed up mortar gaps, cracks in the frame, around the frame, under the frame. Everywhere. Still the water is peeing inside! The one thing I haven't done is to use the sealant on the inside between the tiles and the frame as I think that would mean where the water is getting in, it would pool there and potentially rot the frame even more. Or should I just give up and bung that up with sealant too? Judging by the amount of left over sealant someone has done that previously but you can see where the water has just worn its way thought the sealant and carried on coming in.

Porch is also leaking all round the door frame and apparently through the wall! I've never had any house that leaks like this. It's ridiculous. I've been plastering the outside of that with sealant. Mortar gaps bunged up. Any visible gap I've smeared with sealant. Doesn't seem to make any difference whatsover!

Any ideas?
 
Cavity wall?

Have you checked the roof above? It may be running down the inside of the cavity and then just exiting via the kitchen window.
 
It is cavity wall.

Would there be signs of water ingress in the loft if it were leaking via there? I'd expect a leak from the roof to cause the upstairs window to leak first but that is bone dry.

Could it be leaking down via the bottom of the upstairs window and not showing any signs on the upstairs walls at all and still make the kitchen window appear to let in water?
 
Water is notorious for travelling significant distances before it finds a way out. It could well be coming in some distance away from the kitchen window. I recently had a leak in a bedroom ceiling down the light fitting but it turned out that the leak was in the lead flashing in the vee of the roof about 20 feet away. It might be worth getting a tradesman to have a look as with experience they can often spot the root of the problem.
 
wait until its a nice day.... fill your house with water... go outside and see where water is coming out.....


:)
 
g7swz said:
Water is notorious for travelling significant distances before it finds a way out. It could well be coming in some distance away from the kitchen window. I recently had a leak in a bedroom ceiling down the light fitting but it turned out that the leak was in the lead flashing in the vee of the roof about 20 feet away. It might be worth getting a tradesman to have a look as with experience they can often spot the root of the problem.
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Roof join might be a possibility. The whole problem area is close to where the extension is attached. Might have to pop into the loft today while it is pishing and see if there are any obvious leaks up there.
 
I can't see any sign of any leaking in the loft. Can't hear any dripping or see any damp patches. I can't get at the front cavity wall as the loft is insulated and inaccessible. I did notice there is uncovered timber up the inside of the roof over hang. I'd expect that to be boarded with plastic but it hasn't been.

I went outside in the gale and there is one unplugged gap in the mortar that might be an issue.
 
The roof join between the extension and the house is a likely suspect area. Check the pointing around any flashing over the join - it should have been filled with a flexible mastic which does however dry out and then water will penetrate and could get into the cavity. Often worse if the rain is driving in that direction.
 
I am on a hill but it seems unlikely that it would come up from the ground and drip down the window top. It definitely looks more like a water leak rather than a damp rising up kind of thing.
 
How big is the kitchen window? A bit extreme but covering the whole window and frame and recess if there is one with "something" on the outside(big bit of board or something) and then see if its still coming in or not would maybe show if its the window or if coming from elsewhere. As to what to use to cover the window though, er, dont know!
 
DorsetDude said:
How big is the kitchen window? A bit extreme but covering the whole window and frame and recess if there is one with "something" on the outside(big bit of board or something) and then see if its still coming in or not would maybe show if its the window or if coming from elsewhere. As to what to use to cover the window though, er, dont know!
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I actually considered putting plastic across the entire window and taping that to the wall in the hope that would at least stop it!

Other alternative if it can't be fixed is to extend the front porch across the entire front so that outside window is then inside at least.... then at least that could be rebuilt and stopped from leaking at the same time!
 
srichards said:
I am on a hill but it seems unlikely that it would come up from the ground and drip down the window top. It definitely looks more like a water leak rather than a damp rising up kind of thing.
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It just sounds like so much is coming in with your description. Not damp no, I was thinking more like loads of water way up IN the hill could travelling underground under pressure from its own head weight, finds an exit up your cavity wall or whatever and be squirting out above your window. probably crazy but then you can't find the way its getting in, and you do live on a hill.
 
Unless you actually find where the water is coming from, building round it, adding even more sealant etc is not going to stop the problem. All it might do is move it to somewhere else in the house that could cause even more problems.
 
The one above the kitchen doesn't leak at all. It has a big crack across the cill though. No sign of water ingress in the bedroom though.

Infuriatingly there are now damp patches on the inside of the plaster in the kitchen where there weren't before. That's due to me sealing up some holes yesterday. Looks like the join with the extension is one issue as I sealed up some vertical cracks in a mortar join with the sealant as well. This has made in wetter inside. I just don't understand how! Means entire front of the sodding house is potentially now suspect :eek:
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
Can you throw water soluble dyed water over roof parts and test areas. ..loads of blue food colouring maybe.
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I wondered about chucking powder paint all over in different areas of different colours to see what colour came through :) (y)
 
We had exactly the same problem at the back of our house, water coming in around the window frames. We had the whole of the back wall raked and re pointed, then a clear waterproof sealant sprayed over the whole wall. Problem solved, no water ingress for the last 7 years. Apparently the brick/mortar was porous, and when heavy rain hit the wall, after a few minutes it made it to the gaps over and around the windows.
 
wontolla said:
We had exactly the same problem at the back of our house, water coming in around the window frames. We had the whole of the back wall raked and re pointed, then a clear waterproof sealant sprayed over the whole wall. Problem solved, no water ingress for the last 7 years. Apparently the brick/mortar was porous, and when heavy rain hit the wall, after a few minutes it made it to the gaps over and around the windows.
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I'm beginning to think the mortar could be one of the issues. I've found some water proofing paint type of stuff that is the next thing to have a go with but it isn't going to have to stop peeing down long enough to get it onto the wall! It's a south east facing wall so any solution like that won't last more than a couple of years unless it is very UV resistant.

I may need a vat of this: http://www.thompsonsweatherproofing.co.uk/products/product.jsp?id=2
 
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Yep, that's the one we had for ours!
The builder that did it was ace, he had a massive wire brush on a drill and did the whole wall to get rid of loose/moss/s**t etc.
He then had a special router to do the joints to a specific depth and then he used mortar with a plasticizer in, took 2 days just to apply the mortar!
After a couple of days he came back and sprayed the wall with the weatherproofing.
Unfortunately he no longer lives (or works) in the area!
 
I think that's what I'll have to do with mine unless I get lucky with more sealant...
 
Good luck with trying to buy water sealant at the moment. Radio this morning saying fence panels and water sealant like the proverbial rocking horse stuff at the moment. Bit like trying to buy an air conditioner back in those hot days, was it last summer?
 
Went out and had another look around the window. The mortor is in shocking condition. There's loose mortar in lots of places and holes I can see residual wet marks which correspond to where I think some water is bridging via the window.

Luckily I have found one of these:

http://www.pointmaster.co.uk/index.html

Looks just the thing to use after raking out the crap mortar.

Also spotted a huge hole right up under the eaves. Sigh.

I really need one of those flying dustbins. Would make jobs like these so easy. Could just float up to where I need to add mortar and float down again...
 
Suz, repointing is soul destroying - it'll drive you crazy trying to do it yourself! You'll also need scaffolding to do it safely and years of practise to do it cleanly and properly. Personally, I wouldn't dream of doing it myself but if needs must...
 
That's why I'm looking at using one of those mortar guns. Squidges mortar into the gaps really easily. I wouldn't do any of the high stuff. Just bits I can reach by step ladder.

I'll get a pro to quote first. If it's reasonable then I'll save myself the hassle.
 
srichards said:
Went out and had another look around the window. The mortor is in shocking condition. There's loose mortar in lots of places and holes I can see residual wet marks which correspond to where I think some water is bridging via the window.

Luckily I have found one of these:

http://www.pointmaster.co.uk/index.html

Looks just the thing to use after raking out the crap mortar.
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That looks junk, you'll be surprised how much mortar is needed if a significant area needs doing - bucket after bucket.
You need to compress it into the joints with some force using a proper trowel too.
 
Probably because mortar mix cures chemically rather than by evaporation of a solvent so would go off in the tube. The gack in your link would possibly be OK for small patching but for a whole wall (a patch job will look bad, especially a DIY one) I wouldn't use a mastic type.

Looking at that PointMaster site, I notice that they advocate pressure washing the raked wall to remove dust. Think about this - repointing is usually done because the old pointing is knackered and lets in water under rain pressure. Chances are that the old mortar is fairly powdery and unstable. A pressure washer will get rid of the dust, sure but it'll probably rip out even more of the old mortar, possibly causing bricks to fall out of the wall. Lose a few bricks and the whole wall could (worst case scenario but it could happen) fall to pieces... Worth looking at the review on that Amazon link too.
 
I think the small one could be useful for small areas of patching. I've got a rubbish garden wall I could practice on before doing anything that would be seen :)

Gone off the point master. Looks too crude to be tidy compared to the littler one.
 
Another thing to bear in mind is that the mortar you mix will start to go off so will start to stiffen and clog the gun. If you ever pass a building site, see what they use for pointing - if there's a simple, quick and efficient way to do it, they'll be using it!
 
have you checked your gutter lately ?
we had a problem with the gutter overflowing into the wall cavity making water pour in through the window frame and down the wall when there was heavy rain
the problem was not enough drainage for the terraced row the gutter would fill up start to overflow

might be worth a look
 
I haven't checked that. Will have to wait until its piddling and daylight :)
 
It might sound silly but what about using a hose pipe to find the entry point? Even continuous heavy rain can take ages to seep through to the inside and become visible - and when it does you still can't tell where the entry point is.
 
I think I've done the hosepipe thing before and that doesn't seem to create the same effect. It doesn't come through so you think you've fixed it then when it rains and lashes down then it leaks. It's a particular wind direction and amount of rain.
 
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