Would a digi shooter find a film shooter, too slow on a shoot?

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#1
Just a hypothetical question really. I am asking this because I am shooting film again, but I don't know if I will go back to fully. Would a digital shooter, go out with a person who was shooting only film? Would the digital shooter see the film user as too slow? I could see why they might. Because by the time the film user weighs up the shot, and thinks will this shot work, chances are the film user wont take the shot. While all this is going on, the digital user will have probably fired of about twenty shots or more.

This is just for future reference really, just in case I would be thinking of going on a meet up. If it were me using digital, and I was with a film shooter, I could slow down, but that is just me.
 
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#2
Just a hypothetical question really. I am asking this because I am shooting film again, but I don't know if I will go back to fully. Would a digital shooter, go out with a person who was shooting only film? Would the digital shooter see the film user as too slow? I could see why they might. Because by the time the film user weighs up the shot, and thinks will this shot work, chances are the film user wont take the shot. While all this is going on, the digital user will have probably fired of about twenty shots or more.

This is just for future reference really, just in case I would be thinking of going on a meet up. If it were me using digital, and I was with a film shooter, I could slow down, but that is just me.
I wouldn't have thought so...just say you will be shooting with film, and I'm sure most people would wait for you.
 

Nod

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#3
I doubt it. Just as likely to be the other way round once you're used to thinking "Film"! You'll probably find yourself approaching a potential shot and deciding where you want to shoot it from, position yourself and take the shot in the time it takes a digishooter to fire off their 20 shots from the easiest place!
 
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#5
Some people like to take time to find the composition, some like to run & gun. I don't personally think the type of camera has much to do with it.
 

Marc

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#6
There will be many variables. Some film users will have their cameras on auto so will snap just as frequently as a digital shooter. Soe digital shooters will shoot hundreds in a day, some not so much.

When I first started going on meets, I would shoot 100s in a day but' in later meets,I would go home with no more than 40 o 50, less than 2 rolls of film
 

Marc

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#7
When shooting digital, my frame rate is about one shot every ten minutes. I have been known to go somewhere with my digital camera, take the three shots I want and go home. Not every digital photographer uses the machine gun system.

I work at much the same speed with film.
Some people like to take time to find the composition, some like to run & gun. I don't personally think the type of camera has much to do with it.
These basically ^^^
 
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jonbeeza
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#8
It is just that I have had the film in the camera for two days now, and I was trying to get a photo of our cat, and the missus. I kept picking up the camera and composing the shot, but did not take the shot, till about the eighth attempt, this was over the course of the morning, and afternoon, and indoors. Had it of been digital I would have simply fired of shot after shot.

Film certainly does make you think.
 
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#9
In that situationit wouldn't bother me, if your out with a mate, shooting tends to be slower anyway (IMHO) I have friends who shoot digital who are way slower than me setting up a shot, then no doubt at other times I'll see something I fancy and take ages.
Its just the way it is if your shooting with others I suspect.
 
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jonbeeza
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#12
Surprised at the replies so far, I thought digital shooters would be steaming ahead of the film shooters.
 
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#13
Surprised at the replies so far, I thought digital shooters would be steaming ahead of the film shooters.
I guess that's probably more likely in the "real world". Here (TP) though, you have a higher percentage of considered photographers. Probably :)
 
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#14
I doubt it. Just as likely to be the other way round once you're used to thinking "Film"! You'll probably find yourself approaching a potential shot and deciding where you want to shoot it from, position yourself and take the shot in the time it takes a digishooter to fire off their 20 shots from the easiest place!
:plus1:
 
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#15
It is just that I have had the film in the camera for two days now, and I was trying to get a photo of our cat, and the missus. I kept picking up the camera and composing the shot, but did not take the shot, till about the eighth attempt, this was over the course of the morning, and afternoon, and indoors. Had it of been digital I would have simply fired of shot after shot.

Film certainly does make you think.
Really? really really really? Really honestly truly?

I'd work about the same speed with either I think.
Yup.

One thing with mirrorless is that I'm sure I have a better keeper rate than ever as I can see the picture before I press the button and therefore take fewer pictures as I'm usually quite confident that one per subject is enough.
 
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#16
I've only ever been on one photography meet up and that was in digital times. I had a Canon 20D and a bag full of lenses and someone else had a film Leica. Watching them change the film was interesting. As some may not know... with some film cameras it's not just a matter of pressing a button to open up the back, sometimes you need a tool or at least a coin to unscrew something and remove a panel which may not something that can easily be done on the move.
 
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#17
Would a digital shooter, go out with a person who was shooting only film? Would the digital shooter see the film user as too slow?

I'd be happy to and no using film doesn't make you slow, being slow does that - what is too slow though is another question as just taking your time to get things right is a good thing to do :)

Dave
 
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jonbeeza
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#18
Would a digital shooter, go out with a person who was shooting only film? Would the digital shooter see the film user as too slow?

I'd be happy to and no using film doesn't make you slow, being slow does that - what is too slow though is another question as just taking your time to get things right is a good thing to do :)

Dave
That is me, that is. Soooooo, slow at everything. ;)
 
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#19
I've only ever been on one photography meet up and that was in digital times. I had a Canon 20D and a bag full of lenses and someone else had a film Leica. Watching them change the film was interesting. As some may not know... with some film cameras it's not just a matter of pressing a button to open up the back, sometimes you need a tool or at least a coin to unscrew something and remove a panel which may not something that can easily be done on the move.
On all Leica M Rangefinders you have to remove the baseplate to load the film no tools required the baseplate has it's own key attachment. It's quick and easy from the M4 onwards, a bit more fiddly with the earlier M3/M2s but can't say for the screw mounts. Keep in mind Photojournalists used Leicas throughout several conflicts particularly famous in Vietnam changing film on the fly wasn't a problem back then. Like you I've only done 1 meet up and it was digital but we tended to just do our own thing in the same areas I was on a tripod for my shots so it wouldn't have mattered if I was on film or digital.
 
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#20
On all Leica M Rangefinders you have to remove the baseplate to load the film no tools required the baseplate has it's own key attachment. It's quick and easy from the M4 onwards, a bit more fiddly with the earlier M3/M2s but can't say for the screw mounts. Keep in mind Photojournalists used Leicas throughout several conflicts particularly famous in Vietnam changing film on the fly wasn't a problem back then. Like you I've only done 1 meet up and it was digital but we tended to just do our own thing in the same areas I was on a tripod for my shots so it wouldn't have mattered if I was on film or digital.
I think what's a problem or isn't changes over time and circumstances as we get used to new ways of doing things so I'm not sure that your comments about quick and easy and can't say for some models are gospel for everyone in every circumstance and seeing it done on a pub table once was enough for me to think it a faff. Sorry :D

I've never had a camera that needed too much fiddling with baseplates but even so there's the "hassle" of changing the film which I'd still argue is something which may not be easy to do on the go. It's certainly not as easy as changing a memory card after at the least hundreds of shots.

Yes people used Leicas in the Vietnam war but keep in mind that they also ditched Leicas and went for Nikon SLR didn't they? :D
 
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#21
Keep in mind Photojournalists used Leicas throughout several conflicts particularly famous in Vietnam changing film on the fly wasn't a problem back then.
Oh yes it was! Moreover the majority of the photographers working in the Vietnam conflict used the Nikon F, which had a detachable back that was somewhat faster than the Leica's base loading. However: if you go back to the Korean conflict of the 1950s the majority of photographers had already abandoned the Leica screw mount cameras for the Zeiss Contax. This used a very similar loading system to the Nikon which was in fact derived from the Contax via the Nikon rangefinder series,
 
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#22
I think what's a problem or isn't changes over time and circumstances as we get used to new ways of doing things so I'm not sure that your comments about quick and easy and can't say for some models are gospel for everyone in every circumstance and seeing it done on a pub table once was enough for me to think it a faff. Sorry :D

I've never had a camera that needed too much fiddling with baseplates but even so there's the "hassle" of changing the film which I'd still argue is something which may not be easy to do on the go. It's certainly not as easy as changing a memory card after at the least hundreds of shots.

Yes people used Leicas in the Vietnam war but keep in mind that they also ditched Leicas and went for Nikon SLR didn't they? :D
Oh yes it was! Moreover the majority of the photographers working in the Vietnam conflict used the Nikon F, which had a detachable back that was somewhat faster than the Leica's base loading. However: if you go back to the Korean conflict of the 1950s the majority of photographers had already abandoned the Leica screw mount cameras for the Zeiss Contax. This used a very similar loading system to the Nikon which was in fact derived from the Contax via the Nikon rangefinder series,
Not going to make an argument about this since the point of me mentioning it was to clear up the needing tools bit and explain that it isn't a black art changing films in Leicas. The real point is to answer the OP's question and mostly (IMO) it doesn't matter what medium you are shooting to most people on a meet up since once there and on the ground you tend to do your own thing.
 
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#23
Not going to make an argument about this
That's good. Myself: I'm a great believer in getting the facts as correct as possible and not bolstering assertions with questionable statements.
 
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#24
Sorry I can't remember the model which doesn't help... but I'm certain I saw a tool being used to take the baseplate off.

No it isn't a black art it's just more fiddly than some other film cameras and IMO something that can't always be done "on the go" just as changing the film or indeed changing a lens can't always be. Sometimes you need to stop, at least shelter the camera and possibly in a worst case scenario look for a surface to use.
 
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#25
Would it really matter as the film photographer may take more time per shot but would take less shots. Serious photographers will consider composition, angles, perspective, lighting etc. irrespective of their media. It is true that digital photographers will almost certainly capture more frames because they can at no extra cost. Also in many situations, particularly those involving people or moving objects, you cannot take all the time you would like. Interestingly I am in a large camera club (over 120 members) and I have not been out with anyone using film for many years.

Dave
 
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#26
Here's a shot of my MP (film) the silver key unlocks the baseplate, the other one is one of my M9s (digital) and you access the battery and SD Card the same way the black key unlocks.

L1000633.JPG

Not sure what you saw might have been Pre M mount early screw mount. I can change films easily on the move with my MP but my earlier M2 has a spool that you need to remove and slot the film leader into before putting the film and spool back in then closing the baseplate back up. That's officially faffy but can still be done relatively quickly. TBH I can change films as quickly with my MP as I can with my Canon F1 New.

Better add the photo. :facepalm:
 
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#27
That's good. Myself: I'm a great believer in getting the facts as correct as possible and not bolstering assertions with questionable statements.
There was nothing questionable or incorrect about my statement, there are many reasons why photographers used Nikon SLRs in Vietnam and many did not. Changing film in a Leica M is not a big deal and I can do it easily as quick in my MP as I can ion my Canon F1 New.
 
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#28
There was nothing questionable or incorrect about my statement, there are many reasons why photographers used Nikon SLRs in Vietnam and many did not.
I'm sure we can agree to disagree on that.
Changing film in a Leica M is not a big deal and I can do it easily as quick in my MP as I can ion my Canon F1 New.
Having used Leica Ms and Canon F1s I know that I could change the film faster in a Canon than a Leica.
 
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#29
When shooting digital, my frame rate is about one shot every ten minutes. I have been known to go somewhere with my digital camera, take the three shots I want and go home. Not every digital photographer uses the machine gun system.

I work at much the same speed with film.
Same, Llandudno for 3 hours a couple of weeks back, took 15 photos, 3 of which were duplicates, I guess it's as a result of 25+ years "apprenticeship" shooting film
 

Asha

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#30
If it were me using digital, and I was with a film shooter, I could slow down,
Not sure that ypu would be happy enough to slow down to 'keep up' with me.:LOL::LOL:

A quick exposure on LF, for me, takes a minimum of a quarter of an hour…….and that is seriously quick!

More typically would be about twice that amount of time though sometimes can run into hours waiting for the the corect conditions (light usually).which doesn't always arrive!
 
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#31
Really folks?
You make it sound like the longest part of taking an image is how fast your kit can shoot.
For me its composition and finding the best position and settings to achieve what I want.
After that it makes no odds what does the clicking.
 
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#32
Not sure that ypu would be happy enough to slow down to 'keep up' with me.:LOL::LOL:

A quick exposure on LF, for me, takes a minimum of a quarter of an hour…….and that is seriously quick!

More typically would be about twice that amount of time though sometimes can run into hours waiting for the the corect conditions (light usually).which doesn't always arrive!
I did take the film camera out with me yesterday, not specifically a photographic trip, but a personal errand I had to do. I took an hour or two out, to get some photos in an old part of town, full of character. It just was not happening though, I think my mind was not relaxed, came back with no photos. I need to try again, with a clearer mind.
 
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#33
I did take the film camera out with me yesterday, not specifically a photographic trip, but a personal errand I had to do. I took an hour or two out, to get some photos in an old part of town, full of character. It just was not happening though, I think my mind was not relaxed, came back with no photos. I need to try again, with a clearer mind.
I often go out with digital and come back with no photos too..... :)
 
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#34
I did take the film camera out with me yesterday, not specifically a photographic trip, but a personal errand I had to do. I took an hour or two out, to get some photos in an old part of town, full of character. It just was not happening though, I think my mind was not relaxed, came back with no photos. I need to try again, with a clearer mind.
If I am just out and about not on a specific photo outing I don't take a film camera I take digital for the immediacy. Likely I will only take one or two shots in these circumstances and that is the great advantage of digital no waste or waiting. I will though often go on specific film photography trips or if I am going somewhere for ea day out intending on photographing I may take a film camera because I will likely use a whole roll (or rolls) therefore will send the film away on my return no waste just the wait.
 

Asha

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#35
I did take the film camera out with me yesterday, not specifically a photographic trip, but a personal errand I had to do. I took an hour or two out, to get some photos in an old part of town, full of character. It just was not happening though, I think my mind was not relaxed, came back with no photos. I need to try again, with a clearer mind.
Had you taken digital kit, would you have returned home with images?
If the answer to that is yes then ask yourself why.
A probable reason would be cos you could without it costing a negative or several.
Nothing inherently wrong with that but then it begs the question as to wether the scene was REALLY worth capturing at all if it wasn’t worth paying the approx price of 20p for on a film neg.
Would you have returned home with a number of images to upload, view on your computer, delete or perhaps be frustrated at the results of many, to then store them to work through at a later date..... something that often ( talking from personal experience!) doesn’t happen.
 
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#36
It was just this little errand I had to run, took me to a very old town. I just thought shooting B&W film would have suited the occasion better. My head was in too much of a muddle, so I was not relaxed, so I held of taking any photos.
 
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#37
Had you taken digital kit, would you have returned home with images?
If the answer to that is yes then ask yourself why.
A probable reason would be cos you could without it costing a negative or several.
Nothing inherently wrong with that but then it begs the question as to wether the scene was REALLY worth capturing at all if it wasn’t worth paying the approx price of 20p for on a film neg.
Would you have returned home with a number of images to upload, view on your computer, delete or perhaps be frustrated at the results of many, to then store them to work through at a later date..... something that often ( talking from personal experience!) doesn’t happen.
Yes I think I would have, certainly with the compact any way. Pick a decent ISO for a fast shutter speed, I normally get something half decent. :)
 
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#39
Would a digital shooter, go out with a person who was shooting only film? Would the digital shooter see the film user as too slow?

I'd be happy to and no using film doesn't make you slow, being slow does that - what is too slow though is another question as just taking your time to get things right is a good thing to do :)

Dave
At least with Digital shooting of difficult subjects, you can iterate your decision making as you go along. which is not something you can do with film.
Film or digital things take just as long as needed, not less and not more.

However when working under pressure the action itself limits the time available.
None the less, the various drive modes available to digital users, give a marked advantage to the possible outcomes for them.
The age related tremor in my hands means that more and more I use such ploys to my advantage.
 
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