Zero hours, NMW, living wage, apprenticeship pay

The problem I see with zero hour contracts is that you'll just get people who see their employer as a job and not a career. You'll never get loyalty which in turn can develop into creativity and inspire people which will ultimately benefit the company. Very short sighted.
 
Apprenticeships over the years declined immensely, but I seem to hear more about them these days, so presume funding is being put in again?
 
Comparing any apprenticeships which are not in similar sectors is daft Phil, and in doing so, you devalue all of them, and those doing them.
I think that was the point though - I personally wouldn't think the NVQ gained at the end of a retail or office admin apprenticeship showed the same level of 'competence' that a C&G in Joinery or electrician qualifications suggests.

A lot of modern 'apprenticeships' appear to be just a mechanism to hire people on low wages rather than a genuine opportunity to gain marketable skills. Is someone who has undergone an apprenticeship in retail better qualified than someone who has worked in a shop for 3 years? With no experience I can walk into a job in retail or care tomorrow, I can't get hired as a joiner or hairdresser. So do those apprenticeships actually have a value? By questioning that I don't believe I'm questioning the validity of all apprenticeships.
 
I think that was the point though - I personally wouldn't think the NVQ gained at the end of a retail or office admin apprenticeship showed the same level of 'competence' that a C&G in Joinery or electrician qualifications suggests.
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I'd think they show the appropriate level of competence for their field. Again, you're trying trying to liken oranges to eggs.
 
I don't really understand how NVQ's work, or should I say how they relate to each other. Are they a set standard across the board?

Even though I had a City & Guilds qualification (= to a level 4 NVQ apparently) I still had to take the level 3 NVQ in the same profession because it was a Govt. requirement. o_O
 
In my opinion this is just what the majority are.
I did a search of apprenticeships local to me and found that IMHO the majority are closer to what I'd expect of a traditional apprenticeship, with the minority being in admin or retail. Surprisingly few in care (which I thought was one of the larger uses)
 
I don't really understand how NVQ's work, or should I say how they relate to each other. Are they a set standard across the board?

Even though I had a City & Guilds qualification (= to a level 4 NVQ apparently) I still had to take the level 3 NVQ in the same profession because it was a Govt. requirement. o_O

NVQ = Not Very Qualified ;)

The Government are actually giving money to the NHS, MoD and companies to fund apprenticeships. If they don't take candidates on then they don't get the money. Even candidates with degrees are not recognised and they have to go down the NVQ route. It's all about income generation !
 
My impression of an aprenticeship was a 4 or 5 year commitment towards a skilled career. I just did a simple search from the gov.co.uk site and not one of the first three pages offers anything more than 2 years, many of these are 'admin' jobs and I know that some companies such as supermarkets and coffee bars have been pulled up about taking advantage of the scheme. Are they just taking on more than enough 'apprentices' to stack their shelve and serve their coffee, in the hope that most will drop out before reaching the heights of qualified cheif stacker/server?
 
Another ploy these days seems to be short contracts, 3 months renewable, which means the employer can change the contracted hours on renewal
so you only get the wage if there is extra work, and they know many will accept it because they need a job and they know there is a possibility of more
hours when the work pick ups.
 
My impression of an aprenticeship was a 4 or 5 year commitment towards a skilled career. I just did a simple search from the gov.co.uk site and not one of the first three pages offers anything more than 2 years......

How long are traditional apprenticeships these days? eg Joinery.

When I started in the 70's, (on £12 a week) it was 4 years. My gaffer/employer said it should be longer, he'd served 7 years!
 
How long are traditional apprenticeships these days? eg Joinery.

When I started in the 70's, (on £12 a week) it was 4 years. My gaffer/employer said it should be longer, he'd served 7 years!
I think my daughters fiancé did 4 years, he's not long qualified and just turned 21.
 
NVQ = Not Very Qualified ;)

The Government are actually giving money to the NHS, MoD and companies to fund apprenticeships. If they don't take candidates on then they don't get the money. Even candidates with degrees are not recognised and they have to go down the NVQ route. It's all about income generation !
We used to do Not Very Quick
 
My impression of an aprenticeship was a 4 or 5 year commitment towards a skilled career. I just did a simple search from the gov.co.uk site and not one of the first three pages offers anything more than 2 years, many of these are 'admin' jobs and I know that some companies such as supermarkets and coffee bars have been pulled up about taking advantage of the scheme. Are they just taking on more than enough 'apprentices' to stack their shelve and serve their coffee, in the hope that most will drop out before reaching the heights of qualified cheif stacker/server?
Regional variations then, here I got vehicle technicians, joiners, and other traditional 'trades' the low end of which would be hairdresser, then some admin and retail posts.
 
I had to show an apprentice tiler how to sweep.

He'd never mixed adhesive until I showed him how to.
The guys employing him used to send him for pies and coffee.
 
How long are traditional apprenticeships these days? eg Joinery.
When I started in the 70's, (on £12 a week) it was 4 years. My gaffer/employer said it should be longer, he'd served 7 years!
I suppose the few that still exist in 'traditional' trades are the same length, but there are lots of shorter schemes that are allowed to fall under the banner.

Regional variations then, here I got vehicle technicians, joiners, and other traditional 'trades' the low end of which would be hairdresser, then some admin and retail posts.
Maybe, but I did make mine a 50 mile search and I'm in the middle of several cities and large towns.
 
How long are traditional apprenticeships these days? eg Joinery.

When I started in the 70's, (on £12 a week) it was 4 years. My gaffer/employer said it should be longer, he'd served 7 years!
My apprenticeship (toolmaker) was 4 years and still is although, it used to be 5 years up until the early 70's. Different aspects of my job were learnt after though, but that was only because I moved into a different area of the job. When my employer decided to close where I worked but agreed on giving anyone a job not wishing to take redundancy or early retirement, I was retrained as a prototype mechanic, taking around 10 months as it only required pretty much the hands on side of the work rather than the boring theoretical class room stuff.

My mates son started an apprenticeship with a kitchen manufacturer/fitters company. Other than what he was being taught at college, the only work experience they gained at work was sitting in a room rubbing down wood or going out in a van with someone just to help move something or pass tools. He couldn't bear it and jacked it in after about 4 months, others there had been doing the same for over 6 months so it was obviously the norm. He was fortunate to get a proper apprenticeship with BT though.
 
Time served electrician, 4 years day release. For me the only apprenticeships worth doing, and I don't mean any disrespect to those who have others. You learned the technical stuff in college and and the practical at work.
 
Or send someone to the iron mongers for some sky hooks and / or a tin of elbow grease (y)
 
Time served electrician, 4 years day release. For me the only apprenticeships worth doing, and I don't mean any disrespect to those who have others. You learned the technical stuff in college and and the practical at work.
Likewise, my college time was split between machine shop, welding, workshop and classroom, it was actually a day and an evening every week. We didn't get paid for the evening :(
 
Another ploy these days seems to be short contracts, 3 months renewable, which means the employer can change the contracted hours on renewal
so you only get the wage if there is extra work, and they know many will accept it because they need a job and they know there is a possibility of more
hours when the work pick ups.
A lot of that can be down to uncertainty of what the future holds for a company, making it hard for them to commit to long term or full contracts. My employer generally has yearly contracts as a minimum, meaning bad performers don't get a follow up contract. For some there are 2 year contracts again some get renewed others don't. Opportunities also arise to take these temporary staff on full time if the economic possibilities arise.
 
Or send someone to the iron mongers for some sky hooks and / or a tin of elbow grease (y)


Not forgetting the skirting ladder and tartan paint.

An elderly friend was an apprentice engineer in the '50s and was sent for a bucket of steam. He heated a bucket to red heat then lobbed a mug of water in. Guess who got a thick ear!!!
 
Likewise, my college time was split between machine shop, welding, workshop and classroom, it was actually a day and an evening every week. We didn't get paid for the evening :(

Same here when I started, it was 9am - 7pm ...............on Fridays! :mad: :beer:
 
Or send someone to the iron mongers for some sky hooks and / or a tin of elbow grease (y)
Apprentice goes out, comes back three hours later (having been in the pub reading the paper the whole time), "Sorry, went all over town, no elbow grease for sale anywhere. I'll be off home then." :D
 
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