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How do their prices compare to Mixam?
Zine Exchange VI: May - September 2023
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They are more expensive; comparing them with the Mixam ones - their covers were terrible and they were incapable of working out why. My zine was A5 landscape 16 pages of images and 4 cover pages. 170gsm pages and 250gsm cover, silk with gloss lamination. The cover was black and white and immaculate: no scracthes, smearing, roller tracks, streaky mono, streaky colours. I have asked them for prices for smaller numbers 10, 20 , 30 or 40 to let you compare. I won't hear back until Monday. The quantities that may get ordered are 150@ £1.97 per booklet and 250 @ £1.81 per booklet as the booklet is for a friend to mark 40 years in their business. I will be using them when I join in the next zine exchange.
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Thanks. Certainly more expensive. Will be interesting to see their short run prices.
I've used Mixam a few times now, biggest book 88 pages plus cover, perfect bound, full colour. One time they put the pages in the wrong order, but redid the job perfectly. I've never had any print quality issues. I'll be using them again soon for a project. Fingers crossed!
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If anyone wants to do a post about their zine and what you struggled with/enjoyed/were proud of/pigged off at, please feel free.
For me, I felt mine was a bit of a haphazard mess. The point came across, but I think the reader had to work quite a bit to get there. My centre spread wasn't in the centre which was a big oops on my part because I counted the pages twice. I guess that's why people have editors! Also, many of the double page spreads didn't take the gutter into account. Looking at other zines I received with double page spreads, they did this far better than I did.
It's also been pointed out that I can use space to separate things a bit more. Completely agree with this, especially this page which I just couldn't get how I wanted and didn't see a way forward. It made me wonder whether there is value in working through the design with the folks on the thread to get other solutions to problems. I guess folks would have to have the confidence to offer guidance or the willpower to offer suggestions. This particular page was messy and I was never satisfied with it.
The cover idea could have been done better too IMO. I agree that it's difficult to figure out what order to read things. I sampled the colour from the branded colour, and it's too garish for my tastes. I had the idea for the title, then I realised I could "crossword" it. My Affinity Publisher skills showed their weakness sadly. It's not obvious what order to read the words in.
All in all, it was a bit messy, and very typically "me". I've had good feedback from non-photographers who've seen it, including my wife (which is high praise!) so I'm definitely chalking this one up to experience. It's the only zine I've made that I can read through again and it still makes me smile.
Favourite pages? These. Massive Cramps fan and very lucky to have a boss who also is.
For some reason, I wanted to add a scan of our band's last gig [poster] before we split. I'm pretty certain I did it for me, but I think I'd had too much wine when I made the decision. it's hopelessly incongruous and pretty much meaningless to anyone but me (or anyone reading this far). Literally half of me wishes I hadn't done it, whilst the other half is glad I did. I sometimes think I shouldn't be allowed out.
For me, I felt mine was a bit of a haphazard mess. The point came across, but I think the reader had to work quite a bit to get there. My centre spread wasn't in the centre which was a big oops on my part because I counted the pages twice. I guess that's why people have editors! Also, many of the double page spreads didn't take the gutter into account. Looking at other zines I received with double page spreads, they did this far better than I did.
It's also been pointed out that I can use space to separate things a bit more. Completely agree with this, especially this page which I just couldn't get how I wanted and didn't see a way forward. It made me wonder whether there is value in working through the design with the folks on the thread to get other solutions to problems. I guess folks would have to have the confidence to offer guidance or the willpower to offer suggestions. This particular page was messy and I was never satisfied with it.
The cover idea could have been done better too IMO. I agree that it's difficult to figure out what order to read things. I sampled the colour from the branded colour, and it's too garish for my tastes. I had the idea for the title, then I realised I could "crossword" it. My Affinity Publisher skills showed their weakness sadly. It's not obvious what order to read the words in.
All in all, it was a bit messy, and very typically "me". I've had good feedback from non-photographers who've seen it, including my wife (which is high praise!) so I'm definitely chalking this one up to experience. It's the only zine I've made that I can read through again and it still makes me smile.
Favourite pages? These. Massive Cramps fan and very lucky to have a boss who also is.
For some reason, I wanted to add a scan of our band's last gig [poster] before we split. I'm pretty certain I did it for me, but I think I'd had too much wine when I made the decision. it's hopelessly incongruous and pretty much meaningless to anyone but me (or anyone reading this far). Literally half of me wishes I hadn't done it, whilst the other half is glad I did. I sometimes think I shouldn't be allowed out.
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I'm always willing to
The first thing that struck we with the tile page above was to wonder what 'Pittle Ece' might be.
Double page spreads are tricky unless they are in the centre pages.
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I always print mine one page at a time, creating separate pdf files, that way it’s straightforward to sort out any double page spreads as you go through process.
Would be tedious on a big zine though
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Posted mine to @KarenShootsFilm today
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Thanks for the write-up @Harlequin565
Having done several zines now, I always find that I am struggling for material. I usually start out with a reasonable number of photos but by the time I have edited out those that are too similar, too different, etc. I end up with only just enough. I feel that I would like to add more pages with several images on one page but don't have enough. The other dilemma I face, and I'm sure this is just me and my predilections and certainly not a crit of anyone else's zines, is that I feel that my zine should in some way be true to the medium, i.e. zine, handcrafted, low budget, low production values but still engaging. And I know I fail at this. May be next time you will be getting a physical cut and paste black and white photocopied zine.
I didn't get that from your zine, I thought it worked well and conveyed a good sense of the things that make charity shops interesting.
Having done several zines now, I always find that I am struggling for material. I usually start out with a reasonable number of photos but by the time I have edited out those that are too similar, too different, etc. I end up with only just enough. I feel that I would like to add more pages with several images on one page but don't have enough. The other dilemma I face, and I'm sure this is just me and my predilections and certainly not a crit of anyone else's zines, is that I feel that my zine should in some way be true to the medium, i.e. zine, handcrafted, low budget, low production values but still engaging. And I know I fail at this. May be next time you will be getting a physical cut and paste black and white photocopied zine.
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Self-crit can be destructive and disheartening. My comments weren't from a position of self-flagellation, more acceptance of who I am and what I'm like when I'm doing this. It's part of the reason I only do these for TP, and not to try and make money out of. That way I can do them my way, improve on them here and there (like the centre page thing, and the front cover, which with hindsight, even my own laze ar$e could have sorted) but most importantly be content with how it ended up.
I thought "Laminated" was a really nice, reflective, different way of looking at the world. The page backgrounds were brilliant and had me squinting to see if I could read it. I love when a zine challenges me to take a few minutes to figure it out.
That's not me at all. For me, it's about (clumsily & awkwardly at times) trying to get the story across. But the fantastic thing about this exchange is seeing how others approach it. I remember the zine from @gjhill (previous exchange) was clipped together and home printed. It still sticks out of my zine holder irritating my OCD, but serves a reminder that "each to their own" is truly a thing when you're just doing it for fun.
Oh boy. Now I can't unsee that. I thought I was being so cool...
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Karen dropped me a PM to say she'd be posting hers today.
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I messed around a fair amount with sizing the text going between readable and not, in the end I thought readable was a bit too distracting but its a photo of a page from an encyclopedia about Photosetting which seemed sort of apropos but also provided a page of dense text.
My "Open Up" zine from a year or two ago was home produced and even hand stitched but for me at least that felt a bit over-produced. However perhaps I mis-worded my comment, its more of an aspiration rather than a negative thing. Perhaps I should have said "And I know I haven't yet achieved that"
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Mine may arrive Monday. Had hoped to get labels printed in advance, but I've played 2 gigs this weekend and just driven back from near Bristol, getting in a few min ago. Tomorrow will be a bit more of a day of rest.
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Ian, this suits the subject material, charity shops are just that!
I suspected from a previous conversation that this was where you volunteered as the price of photographic gear in there is quite firm for a charity shop (nothing wrong with that!), but I did buy two rolls of expired 35mm Superia 400 there for a £1 - probably before you started there
Your zine was great, and above all it was fun to view, and accepts multiple viewings with ease, there is always something in there to catch your eye, another memory from the past.
Off The Rails 2
This was a follow up zine to one of my earlier zines continuing a pictorial view of abandoned slate trucks in North Wales Quarries. I struggled with the formatting slightly as my shooting has changed a lot in the last few years from landscape orientation to portraits. The layout was straightforward as it was effectively a copy of the first zine (slightly disappointed that the 'slate gray' on the covers is different from the first zine despite being the exact same shade in Affinity PUblisher - but I know MIxam have changed some of their printing processes, and print at different locations now).
For me the most enjoyable part of the zine was being out in the old quarries with a camera, most of these were done solo (maybe not wise after my ankle incident), but I love the peace and quiet (I often arrive early - around 7am - so have the places to myself), its away from a computer, and I can explore and find new locations (some of which my 'quarry' friends didn't know existed). I do some planning work before hand with OS Maps and Google Earth (the latter certainly doesn't show elevation well, and what look like a route to a location can have a 300ft drop/cliff in it!). I've got more to explore so who knows there might be a third zine in the series yet! But the quarries to visit are smaller, and often older and therefore less likely to have the remnants of trucks. There are quite a few locations underground but not having the skills or equipment of @sirch I doubt that I'll get to those especially as age (and 'my bottle') is creeping up on me.
I'm an avid zine collector, if something caches my eye I'll buy it, and have amased quite a collection of zines (several hundred!), they all have their merit, and the ones from this exchange stand proudly in the collection, I love the diversity, and the range from very homespun to professional, its a fantastic range and I find it very grounding - not only does it show some great and imaginative photography, it gives subjects the time and day that they might not have normally received. My Dad was a member of a book club where he received random non-fictional book titles once a month - he said that it broadened his horizons, and I find these zine exchanges do just that.
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I think your enjoyment of the environment comes through in your excellent zines which I think are an important historical record.
This might help, OS Map side-by-side with LIDAR data
There are some which only need a head torch but a helmet might also be a good idea e.g. Rhosydd Adit, which is just a straight forward walk along a tunnel with some artifacts at the end but it is more than welly deep in places
English – Coflein
coflein.gov.uk
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Thanks
That certainly looks very useful - thank you
Its Maenoffren and Aberllefenni that currently have my interest. Though I know that Maenoffren has had its access severely restricted recently. And its the cranes at Aberllefenni, though there is one above ground - its on my radar!
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Sorry.Oh boy. Now I can't unsee that. I thought I was being so cool...
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I was most surprised at the amount of people that haggle in there. I wouldn't dream of haggling in a charity shop, but it seems like it's an accepted pastime. There are a few people who price stuff up, and some of it is very optimistic! I try and correct things where I see them, and we tend to go off eBay sold prices x 80% which is pretty good when it's often been tested, and you can just fetch it back if it's not satisfactory. We set up a dedicated shelf for cameras last week which has had a bit of attention and we're slowly trying to organise things. Thanks for the feedback though.
I really liked Off The Rails 2 and I also like collecting sets, so this was a double win for me. They sit next to Andy's (@viewfromthenorth ) trilogy and serve as a constant reminder that there are other folks who like this sort of stuff.
I couldn't have put this better myself. And I do find that as your dad said - it broadens my horizons significantly.
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I’m hoping to do some more in the future, I just haven’t had the bandwidth this year to commit to anything. Plus Mixam were a bit of a nightmare last time, they really seemed to struggle with full bleed black and white for some reason, so I’ll have to change my approach slightly.
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now have 5/7 after receiving one centred on Bristol today, assume this to be from @KarenShootsFilm but there doesn't appear to be a name on it. I still need to post mine to her, should be this week.
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Mine have arrived - only checked the first copy so far, but I'm happy with it. Will get them off in the next couple of days.
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8 participants
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OK, envelopes addressed, loaded and ready to go. I'm afraid mine isn't as 'arty' as the rest.
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as usual there's a broad range of subjects and approaches, I'm sure yours will slot in seamlessly
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@KarenShootsFilm 's arrived this morning. It's incredibly professionally put together - the printing, design, paper and binding, and even the copright page. I presume this is something that's been produced for a wider audience than just this zine swap?
I'd be interested to know how you produced it and what the costs were? I'm not sure I'll ever go quite so professional with my efforts, but it'd be good to know nonetheless.
I've not offered feedback on any yet as they're all sat in a pile waiting to be read (and I've still to put mine together!).
Also - I still don't seem to get notifications for this part of the forum, even when I have threads watched.
I'd be interested to know how you produced it and what the costs were? I'm not sure I'll ever go quite so professional with my efforts, but it'd be good to know nonetheless.
I've not offered feedback on any yet as they're all sat in a pile waiting to be read (and I've still to put mine together!).
Also - I still don't seem to get notifications for this part of the forum, even when I have threads watched.
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This is a perennial problem that I have never been able to track down. In part I think it is due to only ever receiving one alert after visiting a thread no matter how many posts are made, so if you miss the one alert, you don't get anymore until you read the thread. I find that clicking "Mark forums read" can help however it is not a complete solutionAlso - I still don't seem to get notifications for this part of the forum, even when I have threads watched.
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@KarenShootsFilm 's arrived this morning. It's incredibly professionally put together - the printing, design, paper and binding, and even the copright page. I presume this is something that's been produced for a wider audience than just this zine swap?
I'd be interested to know how you produced it and what the costs were? I'm not sure I'll ever go quite so professional with my efforts, but it'd be good to know nonetheless.
I've not offered feedback on any yet as they're all sat in a pile waiting to be read (and I've still to put mine together!).
Also - I still don't seem to get notifications for this part of the forum, even when I have threads watched.
I rather regret that @KarenShootsFilm does not participate in the forum, because the zine has no connection to a person we know. An important aspect of this, for me, was seeing the work of those I'd consider 'friends' in a curated context, rather than picking up a random zine in a newsagents.
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I'm not normally negative but I'm inclined to agree, forum participation - including the wider Talk Photography, is important.
Definitely made for a wider audience and well before the zine exchange, there is quite a bit about it on the internet, and it looks like its been on sale for some time through bigcartel.
This zine was semi professionally produced as credited within the first page and its production was funded by a third party - to me this really isn't in the 'spirit' of our zine exchange.
That said its well put together booklet.
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Ah, I only flicked through it, so didn't see that.
I really don't mind if participants are regular members or not, nor if the zine is professionally published or stuck together in someone's kitchen. I like the variety of content and if we get an occasional outlier from someone who doesn't post regularly, then I'm happy with that too - the more the merrier. I expect most of the zines will always be from regular forumites anyway.
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OK, they're in the post. Hopefully in a couple of days they will start to arrive.
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Zines. I came across them for the first time about nine years ago and fell in love with them. Their history of an uncompromising individualism and aesthetic connected with my own thoughts of image/text making and communication. They challenge gatekeepers of standards and conventions, whoever and whatever they may be, and offer alternative outlets for voices and creativity. Zines, I feel, are also about slowness, the tangible and tactile experience of receptivity, absorption and reflection.
Over the last few years I've been experimenting with choosing different paper types offered by various printing companies. Glossy, silk, uncoated and recycled. Each one, I've discovered, plays a subtle part in how the zine is experienced. A return to photocopying has been mentioned and that's a valid and 'going back to roots' option. What's the message, what's the statement and how should it be communicated are some of the questions I ask when thinking of making a zine. In terms of print options and image making many more questions come up.
There's an interesting list of questions put forward on the website in relation to the discussions around the (sadly) short lived fascinating Japanese photography magazine called 'Provoke' produced in the late 1960s. Website: https://www.photopedagogy.com/provoke.html
Over the last few years I've been experimenting with choosing different paper types offered by various printing companies. Glossy, silk, uncoated and recycled. Each one, I've discovered, plays a subtle part in how the zine is experienced. A return to photocopying has been mentioned and that's a valid and 'going back to roots' option. What's the message, what's the statement and how should it be communicated are some of the questions I ask when thinking of making a zine. In terms of print options and image making many more questions come up.
There's an interesting list of questions put forward on the website in relation to the discussions around the (sadly) short lived fascinating Japanese photography magazine called 'Provoke' produced in the late 1960s. Website: https://www.photopedagogy.com/provoke.html
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I'm in two minds on this. One of the things I think the first zine exchange participants discussed, was to have it as free from rules as we possibly could with the sole exception being no money changing hands. It was kind of accepted that the participants would be regular forum members because, well, they're the ones that would read it.
In an ideal world, if people joined the forum specifically for the exchange, we could try and encourage them to participate in the wider parts of it and they would. But encourage is all we can really do. It is perhaps regretful that people come for just this one thing and I'd be happy to add the phrase "open to regular forum members", but would have no clue about what that meant, & how it would be enforced without something so trite as post count - which is a dubious measure at best. I only have to say the word "classifieds" and poor Chris will be plucking out what's left of his hair.
I guess I'm trying to say I agree with both of you, but at it's heart, these exchanges are about giving, as much as they are receiving. I'd prefer not to turn anyone away. I do understand where you're coming from though Toni.
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Like all things it's a balance but I do tend to agree with @ancient_mariner on this, I like seeing zines from people with whom I feel I have something of a connection.
Getting a bit more hard-nosed, we attract advertisers by having a decent sized regular community, we also generate income in other ways, donations and affiliate links. People who just dip in when it suits are doing nothing to help keep the forum running. This is obviously much more of a concern in classifieds where people do try to take the pss, as a one off in this thread I really don't mind but if word gets out and we see more than one or two in each round then I think we'll have to take a view on it.
Getting a bit more hard-nosed, we attract advertisers by having a decent sized regular community, we also generate income in other ways, donations and affiliate links. People who just dip in when it suits are doing nothing to help keep the forum running. This is obviously much more of a concern in classifieds where people do try to take the pss, as a one off in this thread I really don't mind but if word gets out and we see more than one or two in each round then I think we'll have to take a view on it.
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We could, but I don't think it would bother me to know some of us have been able to sell their zines before hand.
Maybe we should just leave it as it is for now, the fewer rules the better.
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I'll leave it to the various authors to decide if they want to show their work. It always feels wrong taking a photo of someone else's photography! I will be doing a new cover image for the next exchange though. The amount of zines I now have is getting a bit out of hand.
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I think I might try and find some words around the "spirit" of the exchange for the next one, as David alluded to. One to think on.