Is Panamoz "back"?

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I always thought people were just updating whether they received their orders, rather than boasting they bought something from HK. I think it's useful to know how many people receive their purchases so others can make an informed decision..
 
The thing is, lots of folk don't actually know there are issues around importing/buying from outside the UK/EU, heck, half the Asian sellers pretend/give the illusion they ARE in the UK.

If a new poster bought equipment after reading threads about..."buy from here, great deal, I saved £XXX's ..... " but then got stung for VAT/duty etc & found out later that some folk knew about the issue but hadn't highlighted it, i'm sure they'd be pretty hacked off.

Don't presume there are only 1 or 2 who don't like tax evasion & the morality/lack of involved in it, but these issues need highlighting when they occur.

Anyone who knows what they're doing & decides to risk it, that's their decision, but in doing so & posting on a public forum, has to accept that not everyone agrees and some will ask questions.
 
btw, if anyone has bought items & they think they SHOULD have paid VAT/import duty etc & should have notified HMRC, if they pass on their details i'll notify them for you. ;) :D
 
Worth adding paying by BACs into the mixer, I'm sure some are not aware of the risk just to save a few percent, particuarly as these companies are less than forthcoming about how (and where) they operate and have a habit of going quiet for periods of time.

It breaks pretty much every common sense rule of shopping online.
 
anthonys said:
I always thought people were just updating whether they received their orders, rather than boasting they bought something from HK. I think it's useful to know how many people receive their purchases so others can make an informed decision..
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That's just it.

This is just passing on the info and advising people the item arrived:
digital said:
To answer the thread title: yes. My 70D arrived earlier today.
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This is just a smug boast:
digital said:
To answer the thread title: yes. My 70D arrived earlier today and over £100 cheaper than DigitalRev.
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OldCarlos said:
Don't presume there are only 1 or 2 who don't like tax evasion & the morality/lack of involved in it, but these issues need highlighting when they occur.

Anyone who knows what they're doing & decides to risk it, that's their decision, but in doing so & posting on a public forum, has to accept that not everyone agrees and some will ask questions.
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Well said.
 
digital said:
There is no need for you, and a couple of others, to constantly harass posters by asking the same questions time after time. You have made your point repeatedly so why not give it a rest?
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Isn't it in the Forum & Site Rules that you should not encourage "illegal activities"?

Doesn't importing ££££ pounds worth of cameras marked as £ toys count?

Now I think about it why on earth are these people allowed to advertise on here! Goes completely against the rules.
 
Dave1 said:
for some reason tax evasion doesn't count :shrug:.
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Perhaps then if you think this section is run incorrectly, you should take it up with the TP owner and mods, as their is a report button, failing that, you could always stop reading and posting in this section of TP, as at least that way, it would stop you getting your back up about people supposedly evading tax. Just saying :)
 
TG. said:
it would stop you getting your back up about people supposedly evading tax. Just saying :)
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Where does "supposedly" come into it? By their own admission its exactly what they are doing?

It doesn't get my back up, people want to take the risk its their business, but there has to be a balance, people might end up here from Google and they need to understand the risks, anyone whose morals allow them to take this avenue need to do so with all the facts, so for every "look how clever I am, I saved £x00 by evading HMRC" there has to be a counterbalance showing the facts.

If TP want to condone it, that's their business. Why would I try and tell TP what they should or shouldn't allow? Ultimately they are responsible for the content of the site, and until they decide to categorise it with the other illegal activities it is all going to be open to debate.
 
Dave1 said:
It doesn't get my back up, people want to take the risk its their business,

If TP want to condone it, that's their business. Why would I try and tell TP what they should or shouldn't allow?.
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But your coming across like it really does, it is exactly their business, so unless you want to contact HMRC yourself and complain, why keep banging on about it here, i get the impression, you just want to force your opinion/conscience onto other people on here, which really is as has already been mentioned is just trolling, i'm fairly sure people here are not stupid, and they know what they are doing, just the same as walking into any shop picking something up and walking out without paying, if they want to do it, however wrong it may be, it's their choice, everyone has choices in life, it's not up to someone anyone else (apart from probably the law) to force their opinions on others, if someone wants to and buy something from HK and not pay the duty, quite honestly i couldn't give a toss, thats up to them and their conscience, i don't get why other people can't accept that fact.
 
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i have been looking over this thread now i was thinking of buying a sigma 150-500 as they are selling it at £562.00 or £533.90 the bacs route what would be the import tax on it? and whats the cheapest sigma 150-500 os new in the uk?
 
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Dave, you keep saying if people want to 'take a chance' that's up to them. What exactly is the chance you are referring to. Panamoz ship people their orders and if by 'chance' you have to pay VAT & duty on their purchase then Panamoz will refund the customer, thereby negating any chance they are taking. I'm not having a go at any individuals (specially Dave who I started this post with) as I fully respect their individual opinions.

I've had at least 2 items marked up as camera accessory and the full price written on the documents and I have no proof the duty has or hasn't been paid but with it saying the correct item and price, and Panamoz saying on their website NO VAT OR HIDDEN EXTRAS, I have good reason to believe the duty has been paid by Panamoz.

I have every expectation I will be ordering from Panamoz in the future as I've never had anything other than 'great service and great prices' from them. If anyone is that bothered by customs duties I suggest they read this http://www.global-vision.net/perspectives8.asp and maybe that will help quell the amount of negativity towards Panamoz by some people.
 
modchild said:
Dave, you keep saying if people want to 'take a chance' that's up to them. What exactly is the chance you are referring to.
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You are taking a chance at getting caught (and being liable for the tax and duty, possibly even a fine if they decide you deliberately evaded the tax).

You take a chance that the item will never arrive (and if paid by bank transfer have no comeback to recover the cash).

You take a chance the HK retailer goes out of business either before you receive the item or afterwards (and the limited warranty goes out the window).

You take a chance that the product arrives damaged or develops a fault and you have to send the item to HK at your own expense and hope the retailer will honour their warranty and then return the item to you.

By "you", I just mean the buyer.

Like this
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5813273#post5813273
 
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You know some of those also happen with UK companies too don't you?

Interesting thread that one you linked though - a serious bad piece of luck, obviously complicated by international shipping, but I did notice something else - all the same arguments on that one too.

I do have a solution to this deja-vu problem though so excuse me if I don't respond to any replies.
 
JohnN said:
You know some of those also happen with UK companies too don't you?
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Which if those could happen with a UK company where you wouldn't have consumer protection or recourse to the UK courts to pursue a resolution?
 
I'm with Dave on this and reckon all the "chancers" are protesting too much.

It is unargueable that using a foreign based company to evade tax is illegal, however much you like to think it isn't.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
I'm with Dave on this and reckon all the "chancers" are protesting too much.

It is unargueable that using a foreign based company to evade tax is illegal, however much you like to think it isn't.
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Its just human nature I think Heather. People don't like being told they are doing wrong (even when they know it is wrong). Attack is just a form of defence when you don't have any other credible means of defence.
 
TG. said:
.... just the same as walking into any shop picking something up and walking out without paying, if they want to do it, however wrong it may be, it's their choice, everyone has choices in life, it's not up to someone anyone else (apart from probably the law) to force their opinions on others,.......
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If I saw someone doing that, or suspected they were in the process by stuffing their pockets, I would inform the shop keeper/staff/security. I wouldn't just ignore it, or condone it by pretending it wasn't happening!

I think this is where society (all of us) are letting each other down. Don't let the toe-rags get away with it. It isn't right!
 
It's good to know panamoz prices could be coming down again. I've used them before without problem and saved a packet. Putting up with the holier than thou whingers on here is more than bearable when you've saved a pocket full of dosh.
 
Dave1 said:
You are taking a chance at getting caught (and being liable for the tax and duty, possibly even a fine if they decide you deliberately evaded the tax).

IF you get caught for tax and duty on arrival they can't fine you if you pay immediately as you haven't evaded duty. Then email the receipt to Panamoz and they will refund you. No chance taken there as you wont be out of pocket.

You take a chance that the item will never arrive (and if paid by bank transfer have no comeback to recover the cash).

In all these threads about Panamoz and the other HK companies how many have said they never received the item. I've not seen any posts saying that so the 'chance' will be slim. If paying by bank transfer you have no less of a chance than paying by bank transfer than any other country. Remember the Yorkshire Cameras scam that caught thousands of people and none of those have had any money returned.

You take a chance the HK retailer goes out of business either before you receive the item or afterwards (and the limited warranty goes out the window).

You are taking no more of a chance than you would with a UK company. Think Jessops, HMV, Comet and another large camera store whose name escapes me.

You take a chance that the product arrives damaged or develops a fault and you have to send the item to HK at your own expense and hope the retailer will honour their warranty and then return the item to you.

I had a fault develop on my Sigma 150-500 OS after 11 months. I contacted Panamoz and told them. They gave me a UK address to send the lens to and I had a brand new lens at my door only 11 days after I first contacted them. Their level of service has been excellent ever since I first placed an order with them. The parcels arrive in very quick time, often faster than an order from the UK, and are excellently packaged.

By "you", I just mean the buyer.

Like this
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5813273#post5813273
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modchild said:
posted lots within a quote so it can't be quoted.
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So you agree those chances are possible?

Not sure how many people lost money when Jessops went under because Jessops encouraged people to send money to some individual from Hong Kong's bank account to make payment though. Not sure if anyone who bought a camera from Jessops lost money at all when they went under (excluding vouchers that is).

If you think it's as safe to do business with a small retailer in Hong Kong as it is to business with a UK retailer, I don't know how to answer that without calling your intelligence into question, so I won't :shrug:.

I'm still amazed that people will convince themselves it's as good (and legal) to use places like Panamoz or ProCameraShop as it is to use a UK retailer, especially those who blithely send cash by BT without a second thought.
 
The level of customer service from UK business Dave is often *****
you never watched Watchdog
I have had first hand experience of this with UK retailers such as comit and curry's
seems the HK companies are better to me from what I have read
 
Rebel t3i said:
The level of customer service from UK business Dave is often *****
you never watched Watchdog
I have had first hand experience of this with UK retailers such as comit and curry's
seems the HK companies are better to me from what I have read
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I don't believe the HK shoppers are really unable to comprehend the differences.

Does it matter if the oik in Currys is difficult to deal with? You have SoGA and DSR as protection, ultimately you could use the Small Claims track and take them to court for very little.

Remind me how the consumer protection or small claims works when a Hong Kong transaction goes wrong...
 
Dave just remind me how SoGA and small claims court would work with comit for me
 
Rebel t3i said:
Dave just remind me how SoGA and small claims court would work with comit for me
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If you are trying to say "Comet", I have no idea, as the store is no longer in business, why are you trying to buy anything from them?

If you mean a customer buying from Comet before they closed down, you would have had to pay with credit or debit card as those were the only payment methods offered online (not many UK retailers go for the dodgy tax avoiding practice of paying cash into a bank account) and should the item not have arrived from Comet you could have used Section 75 protection or a CC or DC chargeback.

With regard to warranty issues post Comet closedown, all products sold were UK products, so the UK division of the manufacturer would handle warranty issues.

If there is another retailer called comit, I've never heard of them, so can't really comment.
 
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Dave1 said:
So you agree those chances are possible?
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Yes, those chances are possible, but no more so than if you bought anything from this or any other country. When Jessops went under there were a lot of people who got neither their money or the goods they had paid deposits for or were in for repairs. It was all over the news at the time, just in case you were on another planet.

Also don't forget the thousands of customers all over the country who had done similar, paid deposits (even on debit cards) or had goods in for repair etc, when Comet went under. Also the debacle of HMV where customers were taking things off the racks and leaving their now defunct vouchers as payment (that even went to court).

Not everyone buys everything by bank transfer though. Most people including myself would pay by Paypal or Credit Card when they first buy. Afterall, not many people are foolish enough to make a bank transfer to a company they know nothing about, but by the time they'd bought from the company a few times, and had fantastic service from them each time, then they may trust the company enough to use a bank transfer. After buying 4 items by Paypal I made a BT for a lens and it arrived in perfect working order 3 days later (and it's still working perfectly and it's my best lens overall). No one is forced to pay by BT and by using the likes of a Credit card or Paypal that negates yet another 'chance' you keep on about.

As for thinking if it's safe to buy from HK retailers you can make your mind up by reading all the threads on here and other forums praising how good the service is from these various HK companies. It does seem to me you seem very bitter towards anyone and anything that disagrees with your opinion, whereas I don't care if anyone takes anything I write on these forums with a pinch of salt and buys from a good old UK company (and spend however much more than necessary).
 
I keep dropping in here every couple of days only to find the same old argument going around and around in circles.

Dave1 - Nobody is forcing you to buy from any Kong Kong company so why do you keep going on about chances. Surely if I or anybody else takes a chance, then that's our choice.
Life is about chances.

I purchased a flash from Panamoz last year, paid by credit card. There was no chance or risk. I was covered under section 75. The flash arrived within a week with the full value declared. It was delivered by DHL who are renowned for collecting duty and taxes. So why didn't they collect from me.

The world is changing, people buy and sell all over the world these days. It's not illegal.
If the HMRC wanted to collect duty and taxes from me, they had every opportunity.
If they did, I would have had it reimbursed by Panamoz.

Just a quick question, as you are so concerned about the amount of tax everybody pays.

What search engine do you use?
Have you ever bought anything from eBay or Amazon?
Where do you buy your coffee?
 
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ecoleman said:
I keep dropping in here every couple of days only to find the same old argument going around and around in circles.
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It needs to be repeated at least once on every page if every related thread so that newcomers to the threads are aware of the potential crimes they may be committing and the risks they are subjecting themselves to. It's really quite a selfless act by those that keep on repeating themselves time and time again. They're only trying to help!!
 
As long as folk are armed with a balanced view.
Facts are facts and advice is free. It's up to the individual whether they take it on board.... or not.
 
I stumbled across this thread as I am considering purchasing a 70D from Panamoz given that they are substantially cheaper than most.

The legal or moral implications of import duty is not something I am concerned about.

I'd rather have the cash in my pocket.

Enjoy!
 
ecoleman said:
The world is changing, people buy and sell all over the world these days. It's not illegal.
If the HMRC wanted to collect duty and taxes from me, they had every opportunity.
If they did, I would have had it reimbursed by Panamoz.
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Just a quick point, this is actually incorrect about HMRC "collecting". It is not illegal to import the goods. What is illegal is the importer (ie the purchaser in this case), not declaring the value of the goods and paying the appropriate fees. The legal burden rests on the buyer and not the person sending.
 
menthel said:
Just a quick point, this is actually incorrect about HMRC "collecting". It is not illegal to import the goods. What is illegal is the importer (ie the purchaser in this case), not declaring the value of the goods and paying the appropriate fees. The legal burden rests on the buyer and not the person sending.
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All imports come into the country via Customs. Couriers like DHL will collect duty and taxes on behalf of HMRC.
 
ecoleman said:
All imports come into the country via Customs. Couriers like DHL will collect duty and taxes on behalf of HMRC.
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And it is the importers (the purchasers) job to report them if they are not picked up. It is what you legally should be doing. There are no weasel words or ways out of this. If you don't you are breaking the law. A personal choice but still law breaking all the same.
 
menthel said:
And it is the importers (the purchasers) job to report them if they are not picked up. It is what you legally should be doing. There are no weasel words or ways out of this. If you don't you are breaking the law. A personal choice but still law breaking all the same.
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This should be made into a sticky and then all you good people won't have to waste anymore of your valuable time on it.
 
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