My Indoor Project & Journey into Off Camera Flash

:D That's interesting. I had been looking at it and could see that the 95cm octa softbox is a much deeper than my cheaper Phot-R one that I bought a few years ago. I know you commented it wasn't the best quality ;)
It's not just the depth, it's the positioning and quality of the inner diffuser, the quality, thickness and design of the outer diffuser, the shape of the softbox, the thickness of the material used for the walls and the way it stops light from leaking out of the back.
Sadly, a lot of people assume that all softboxes are the same and just buy on price.
 
It's not just the depth, it's the positioning and quality of the inner diffuser, the quality, thickness and design of the outer diffuser, the shape of the softbox, the thickness of the material used for the walls and the way it stops light from leaking out of the back.
Sadly, a lot of people assume that all softboxes are the same and just buy on price.
Yes I can understand it all makes a big difference, but it is not something I would have known without your help. When I bought it a few years back, I didn't have a clue, and it was a first foray into off camera flash. In a way it has served its purpose in cheaply giving me an introduction to modified off camera flash.... whetted my appetite :)
 
Where did you get your foam white board from? Also your whizzy backdrop for small things? I guess the craft shops will be opening soon.

Great that you can use both cameras. I must see if the Canon Godox trigger will work on my Olympus.
 
Where did you get your foam white board from? Also your whizzy backdrop for small things? I guess the craft shops will be opening soon.

Great that you can use both cameras. I must see if the Canon Godox trigger will work on my Olympus.
You can get an Olympus fit Godox trigger, which will be able to fire all your existing Godox gear in the same way as your Canon trigger will (IE A Godox Olympus fit trigger can fire a Godox Canon fit receiver with full TTL and HSS).
 
I'm about to order some more Barb - 10 x A1 white and 10 x A1 black: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BYT1...olid=24TGEQSVAXP48&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I won't need all of them, so we can have five each if you want to split the cost with me? I have Prime, so no delivery on top.
That would be great thanks Trevor, if you're sure 5 of each is enough for you :) Happy to split proportionately if you need more. Let me know and I can drive to the far side to pick up :ROFLMAO:

I was thinking somewhere like The Range might sell that sort of stuff.

You can get an Olympus fit Godox trigger, which will be able to fire all your existing Godox gear in the same way as your Canon trigger will (IE A Godox Olympus fit trigger can fire a Godox Canon fit receiver with full TTL and HSS).
I was just being a cheap skate and hoping the same trigger would fit both. It is brilliant that they are otherwise interchangeable isn't it? There is just one Olympus lens I have which I'd like to try with the lights. For the moment I will continue with my Canon - still a lot of practising to do! :)
 
I was thinking somewhere like The Range might sell that sort of stuff.

They do, but only in A2 and A3 - in packs of five. More expensive too. :(

You'll need a few to start with, they break, scuff and scratch quite easily.
 
@Garry Edwards Hi Garry can I ask for some more advice please I really do love the light stand I have, but I was thinking maybe a Boom Stand might also help me to light from above. As it is so tricky to get a good position with the softbox on my light stand. It would be from LenCarta too.
What was it you said about having everything you need? :LOL: I'm not laughing really - I'd like one too.... and a lot else besides! :whistle::whistle:

Interesting advice @Garry Edwards, I had been thinking about going for the other one, so I'm glad I haven't!
 
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What was it you said about having everything you need? :LOL: I'm not laughing really - I'd like one too.... and a lot else besides! :whistle::whistle:

Interesting advice @Garry Edwards, I had been thinking about going for the other one, so I'm glad I haven't!


Even though I only ordered it today, I was thinking of getting that one when I got the other one. I'm looking forward to getting it too as it will help having wheels.
 
What was it you said about having everything you need? :LOL: I'm not laughing really - I'd like one too.... and a lot else besides! :whistle::whistle:

Interesting advice @Garry Edwards, I had been thinking about going for the other one, so I'm glad I haven't!
Yes, studio lighting equipment is a bit of a disease that just won't stop growing:)
In this case, it's pretty essential because nothing can replace a boom arm but, generally, knowledge trumps gear. What I mean by this is that the more knowledge we have, the less gear we need.

As for this particular boom arm, I've used one for many years and it's solid, safe and functional, and very good value too. Some people like the C stands but I've never understood why - they're don't have a counterbalance weight - which is important - they have a small footprint that makes them less stable and, worst of all, for some reason they have a bright chrome finish that reflects unwanted light all over the place. But I suppose that some people like to have shiny things. Anyone who's seen my car knows that I don't:)
 
Yes, studio lighting equipment is a bit of a disease that just won't stop growing:)
In this case, it's pretty essential because nothing can replace a boom arm but, generally, knowledge trumps gear. What I mean by this is that the more knowledge we have, the less gear we need.

As for this particular boom arm, I've used one for many years and it's solid, safe and functional, and very good value too. Some people like the C stands but I've never understood why - they're don't have a counterbalance weight - which is important - they have a small footprint that makes them less stable and, worst of all, for some reason they have a bright chrome finish that reflects unwanted light all over the place. But I suppose that some people like to have shiny things. Anyone who's seen my car knows that I don't:)
I hadn't looked closely, but the counter balance weight does seem to be a sensible feature, and the chrome not such a great idea.

I am definitely in the camp of needing at least one of everything and having very little knowledge, but I am trying to restrain myself for the moment and work with what I have. I really fancy a snoot and grid too :D One step at a time though....
 
I hadn't looked closely, but the counter balance weight does seem to be a sensible feature, and the chrome not such a great idea.

I am definitely in the camp of needing at least one of everything and having very little knowledge, but I am trying to restrain myself for the moment and work with what I have. I really fancy a snoot and grid too :D One step at a time though....
Don't waste your money on a snoot.
If you want a honeycomb (grid is an ugly foreign-language word for it):) then get one that fits inside your standard reflector, much more useful. This 10-degree one offers the finest control and greatest effect https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-10-degree-universal-honeycomb-for-7-standard-reflectors

And, if you want the finest possible control, you can go mad and buy a 20 degree one as well, and combine them. In effect works in a similar way to a variable ND filter, just rotate one of them to get a wide variety of different effects. To do that though you'll also need the special honeycomb reflector that I designed for this purpose https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-honeycomb-reflector. I came up with this simply because really tight honeycombs aren't available and they are very much needed for some still life and product shots. Personally I have a special 3-degree one that I bought many years ago when I was working in New York, but they're now a thing of the past.
 
Don't waste your money on a snoot.
If you want a honeycomb (grid is an ugly foreign-language word for it):) then get one that fits inside your standard reflector, much more useful. This 10-degree one offers the finest control and greatest effect https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-10-degree-universal-honeycomb-for-7-standard-reflectors

And, if you want the finest possible control, you can go mad and buy a 20 degree one as well, and combine them. In effect works in a similar way to a variable ND filter, just rotate one of them to get a wide variety of different effects. To do that though you'll also need the special honeycomb reflector that I designed for this purpose https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-honeycomb-reflector. I came up with this simply because really tight honeycombs aren't available and they are very much needed for some still life and product shots. Personally I have a special 3-degree one that I bought many years ago when I was working in New York, but they're now a thing of the past.


Hi Garry sorry for the stupid question, but what is that in the link and what does it do ?
 
Don't waste your money on a snoot.
If you want a honeycomb (grid is an ugly foreign-language word for it):) then get one that fits inside your standard reflector, much more useful. This 10-degree one offers the finest control and greatest effect https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-10-degree-universal-honeycomb-for-7-standard-reflectors

And, if you want the finest possible control, you can go mad and buy a 20 degree one as well, and combine them. In effect works in a similar way to a variable ND filter, just rotate one of them to get a wide variety of different effects. To do that though you'll also need the special honeycomb reflector that I designed for this purpose https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-honeycomb-reflector. I came up with this simply because really tight honeycombs aren't available and they are very much needed for some still life and product shots. Personally I have a special 3-degree one that I bought many years ago when I was working in New York, but they're now a thing of the past.
Garry, thank you so much - you are such a wealth of information and have stopped me buying the wrong thing - again! I shall store this info away for when I'm ready. I had a snoot for my speedlite from the box of modifiers I bought, and I have enjoyed playing with it.
 
Hi Garry sorry for the stupid question, but what is that in the link and what does it do ?
It's a honeycomb - in effect a thick piece of metal with a lot of small holes drilled through it (although not made that way). To save time, I've just cut and pasted the section about them in my "Lighting Magic" book - which you have and which might be useful:)
"Honeycombs
Standard Reflectors are often used with a honeycomb (known in the USA as a grid) which concentrates the light and which is extremely useful.

The better standard reflectors have a special lip machined into them, which holds the honeycomb(s) in place. Standard reflectors are also used with umbrellas.


Honeycombs are generally available in 10, 20, 30 and 40-degree variants.
What a honeycomb does is to restrict the spread of the light, forcing it into straight lines and preventing it from spreading into areas where we don’t want it to go.

We generally use them to restrict the light to a small area, for example to light the hair of our subject, without the light also going on to the face, clothing etc.
We also use them to skim light across the subject, to create harsh local shadows. This is often used to emphasise and reveal texture, and we use them as a backlight, i.e. pointing from behind the subject towards the camera lens.

When a light points towards the camera lens it usually creates unwanted flare, but a honeycomb will stop this from happening as long as the light is pointing at an angle greater than that of the honeycomb. In other words, if the angle is more than 10 degrees then there will be no visible flare if you use a 10-degree honeycomb. We sometimes want to create flare in our subject and the honeycomb is again an essential tool, because it allows us to create exactly the amount and level of flare required, i.e. it gives us control of the flare.
The most useful Honeycombs, for most people, are the 10 and 20-degree versions. Sometimes though, and especially when using very precise lighting, it’s good to be able to use a 5-degree honeycomb, or even less.

The difficulty with this is that, as far as I know, they are made by only one firm, in the USA, they are very hard to obtain and they cost a fortune.

Because of this, when I worked with Lencarta I arranged for special honeycomb reflectors to be made that will accommodate two honeycombs together. Fitting two honeycombs at the same time, and rotating them as required, allows extremely tight and precise honeycomb effects to be created."

And now I'll add a bit more detail. . . We use them in three very separate ways.
1. To put light into a very specific area, that doesn't go where it isn't wanted. In this shot, I used one to light the inside of the reflector, which otherwise would have been dark.
honeycomb example.jpg
2. They're also used to skim along a textured surface, to emphasise the texture by creating strong local shadows.
3. They're also used for backlighting, where the light is behind the subject and pointing more or less towards the camera lens. With a 10-degree honeycomb, as long as it's pointing more than 10-degrees off axis it can't create lens flare.

And of course, they have other uses too, for example as a hairlight. They're mentioned 140 times in my book . . .
 
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It's a honeycomb - in effect a thick piece of metal with a lot of small holes drilled through it (although not made that way). To save time, I've just cut and pasted the section about them in my "Lighting Magic" book - which you have and which might be useful:)
"Honeycombs
Standard Reflectors are often used with a honeycomb (known in the USA as a grid) which concentrates the light and which is extremely useful.

The better standard reflectors have a special lip machined into them, which holds the honeycomb(s) in place. Standard reflectors are also used with umbrellas.


Honeycombs are generally available in 10, 20, 30 and 40-degree variants.
What a honeycomb does is to restrict the spread of the light, forcing it into straight lines and preventing it from spreading into areas where we don’t want it to go.

We generally use them to restrict the light to a small area, for example to light the hair of our subject, without the light also going on to the face, clothing etc.
We also use them to skim light across the subject, to create harsh local shadows. This is often used to emphasise and reveal texture, and we use them as a backlight, i.e. pointing from behind the subject towards the camera lens.

When a light points towards the camera lens it usually creates unwanted flare, but a honeycomb will stop this from happening as long as the light is pointing at an angle greater than that of the honeycomb. In other words, if the angle is more than 10 degrees then there will be no visible flare if you use a 10-degree honeycomb. We sometimes want to create flare in our subject and the honeycomb is again an essential tool, because it allows us to create exactly the amount and level of flare required, i.e. it gives us control of the flare.
The most useful Honeycombs, for most people, are the 10 and 20-degree versions. Sometimes though, and especially when using very precise lighting, it’s good to be able to use a 5-degree honeycomb, or even less.

The difficulty with this is that, as far as I know, they are made by only one firm, in the USA, they are very hard to obtain and they cost a fortune.

Because of this, when I worked with Lencarta I arranged for special honeycomb reflectors to be made that will accommodate two honeycombs together. Fitting two honeycombs at the same time, and rotating them as required, allows extremely tight and precise honeycomb effects to be created."

And now I'll add a bit more detail. . . We use them in three very separate ways.
1. To put light into a very specific area, that doesn't go where it isn't wanted. In this shot, I used one to light the inside of the reflector, which otherwise would have been dark.
View attachment 313230
2. They're also used to skim along a textured surface, to emphasise the texture by creating strong local shadows.
3. They're also used for backlighting, where the light is behind the subject and pointing more or less towards the camera lens. With a 10-degree honeycomb, as long as it's pointing more than 10-degrees off axis it can't create lens flare.

And of course, they have other uses too, for example as a hairlight. They're mentioned 140 times in my book . . .



Thank you Garry, I read the book every day as I'm so forgetful and it is helping me a lot.
 
Thank you Garry, I read the book every day as I'm so forgetful and it is helping me a lot.
Don't take it personally, I'm just a miserable old bugger who likes winding people up:)
And, if you can't remember the contents then maybe I should learn to be a better writer . . .
 
Don't take it personally, I'm just a miserable old bugger who likes winding people up:)
And, if you can't remember the contents then maybe I should learn to be a better writer . . .


I'd never take it personally as you have been a fantastic help to me, and the book is very well written and it is also helping me a lot.
 
Don't waste your money on a snoot.
If you want a honeycomb (grid is an ugly foreign-language word for it):) then get one that fits inside your standard reflector, much more useful. This 10-degree one offers the finest control and greatest effect https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-10-degree-universal-honeycomb-for-7-standard-reflectors

And, if you want the finest possible control, you can go mad and buy a 20 degree one as well, and combine them. In effect works in a similar way to a variable ND filter, just rotate one of them to get a wide variety of different effects. To do that though you'll also need the special honeycomb reflector that I designed for this purpose https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-honeycomb-reflector. I came up with this simply because really tight honeycombs aren't available and they are very much needed for some still life and product shots. Personally I have a special 3-degree one that I bought many years ago when I was working in New York, but they're now a thing of the past.
I'll just add a bit that I forgot about when I posted this, rather than edit it, which may go unnoticed . . .

The standard reflector as supplied has a built-in honeycomb lip that takes 1 honeycomb and the special honeycomb reflector has a much deeper lip that takes either 1 or 2, but there's another difference too - the honeycomb reflector is much deeper. This allows the modelling lamp to be left in place, and it's very handy to have a modelling lamp when using a honeycomb, which is a precise lighting tool that's hard to guess. But there's a problem, because even 1 honeycomb blocks the natural ventilation and the heat protection system built into the flash head will be put to the test if you use the modelling lamp with a honeycomb. It's fine to switch it on for as long as it takes - a second or two - to see the effect, but it must never be left switched on.
 
I'll just add a bit that I forgot about when I posted this, rather than edit it, which may go unnoticed . . .

The standard reflector as supplied has a built-in honeycomb lip that takes 1 honeycomb and the special honeycomb reflector has a much deeper lip that takes either 1 or 2, but there's another difference too - the honeycomb reflector is much deeper. This allows the modelling lamp to be left in place, and it's very handy to have a modelling lamp when using a honeycomb, which is a precise lighting tool that's hard to guess. But there's a problem, because even 1 honeycomb blocks the natural ventilation and the heat protection system built into the flash head will be put to the test if you use the modelling lamp with a honeycomb. It's fine to switch it on for as long as it takes - a second or two - to see the effect, but it must never be left switched on.
Thanks Garry. I had been to the site and had a good read. My lighting journey has stalled a little at the moment as the lights are set up in a room that is almost constantly in use :rolleyes: I think I need to move them, but then I lose my cream wall background.

Anyway, I did take on board the heating effect. So far I have been using the modelling light at first and then turning it off once set up. I assume that you have to remove the modelling light bulb if you don't buy the special reflector - I REALLY like the modelling light :D - makes life so much easier as a beginner, and I love that you can use the trigger to turn it on and off. So, I will buy the special reflector I expect, and I will be sure to be careful not to leave the modelling light on. I am so glad I mentioned it in the first place and thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
 
Still showing up as Pending.
They may have to use a slower carrier because of the size, you could ask them. Meanwhile, there's plenty you can do without it . . .
 
So today I wanted to start with using the Godox TT685 for OCF, moving the flash about was really great to see how the shadows would fall and plus I moved the chief further away from the black BG. So A7C with the XproS trigger on I then placed the chief and got the flash just where I wanted, the Godox has a small softbox on it.


Chief by Dave, on Flickr
There's no such thing as a "right way" of lighting anything - which is why I never see the point of people working to any kind of "standard lighting setup" or of people posting example setups, they just inhibit creativity. And I never have a clear idea of how to light anything myself until I actually start, so I'm just making suggestions here, not criticising your approach.

These small subjects create difficult lighting challenges - everything does, in its own way, but the smaller the subject, the more difficult it becomes to obtain really fine control - even a really tiny change to angle or distance creates pretty massive changes.
You say that the flashgun had a small softbox on it, and I can see that, in fact it's a pretty tiny softbox, quite a long way away, and frankly it's doing virtually nothing. But my question (and please try this both with and without the softbox) is this - what result would you get if you moved the light to the left of your chief, and slightly behind? I'd also have it as close as possible, so that the fall-off of light - controlled of course by the Inverse Square Law - is extreme. Doing that would make the headdress and the left-hand facing side really come alive . . .
The right hand side would of course be in shadow, and if the result is too extreme for your taste then just adding a piece of white paper to the right-hand size, trying various distances to suit, will mitigate that effect to taste. Of, for a more dramatic effect, you could use a piece of shiny cooking foil instead of paper - just crumple it up and then flatten it again to get a patterned reflection.

And of course, you can also try having your main (key) light in the opposite position, to the right and slightly behind, and then light the headdress separately as well as adding a reflector to lighten the shadows.

The reason for these suggestions is simple - your chiefs' face has craggy features and his clothing has a lot of relief on it too - this just cries out for side and backlighting, to bring out the textures.
 
There's no such thing as a "right way" of lighting anything - which is why I never see the point of people working to any kind of "standard lighting setup" or of people posting example setups, they just inhibit creativity. And I never have a clear idea of how to light anything myself until I actually start, so I'm just making suggestions here, not criticising your approach.

These small subjects create difficult lighting challenges - everything does, in its own way, but the smaller the subject, the more difficult it becomes to obtain really fine control - even a really tiny change to angle or distance creates pretty massive changes.
You say that the flashgun had a small softbox on it, and I can see that, in fact it's a pretty tiny softbox, quite a long way away, and frankly it's doing virtually nothing. But my question (and please try this both with and without the softbox) is this - what result would you get if you moved the light to the left of your chief, and slightly behind? I'd also have it as close as possible, so that the fall-off of light - controlled of course by the Inverse Square Law - is extreme. Doing that would make the headdress and the left-hand facing side really come alive . . .
The right hand side would of course be in shadow, and if the result is too extreme for your taste then just adding a piece of white paper to the right-hand size, trying various distances to suit, will mitigate that effect to taste. Of, for a more dramatic effect, you could use a piece of shiny cooking foil instead of paper - just crumple it up and then flatten it again to get a patterned reflection.

And of course, you can also try having your main (key) light in the opposite position, to the right and slightly behind, and then light the headdress separately as well as adding a reflector to lighten the shadows.

The reason for these suggestions is simple - your chiefs' face has craggy features and his clothing has a lot of relief on it too - this just cries out for side and backlighting, to bring out the textures.



Thank you Garry, I will try what you have said and post in here. As of today I have started to redecorate our flat so it will be in a couple of days now when I start back up.
 
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