Shooting

[Phil-D]

A club may or may not ban you ... depends on their club rules but you can bet your arse that if his firearms officer sees it he most likely will be banned ... from owning a firearm/shotgun.

I knew it was a mistake coming back to this thread, another totally OTT and wrong statement :banghead:

John, have you not read any of the above on gun fit and mount?

 

[oldandintheway]

Right, who said all my photos were soft by Robin M Jones, on Flickr

sorted...boyz

 

[DemiLion]

Hiya Bethy, I appreciate that you won't be the only one to not read the whole thread, but I did feel that after certain OTT post and a lot of over reaction, the way forward would be to try to tell people, that looking down the barrels of a shot gun is a very important part of gun mount and fitting. Its something I've seen and done (at both ends) hundreds of times

Whilst I appreciate the need for RFDs and trained coaches to check the mount of the weapon and the sight picture, rather than eulogise this, I'd rather see you supporting the general concept that buggering about with
weapons is not a cool idea and that muzzle end images should only be taken in exceptional circumstances and for very specific reasons.

Whilst you may think that is treating the average weapon handler as if they have childlike intelligence, that's generally believed to be the safest option.
Otherwise someone, somewhere, will look at a photograph like this, think 'Ooooh, that's a cool idea' and try it themselves...

...with a bloody big bang as a result.

With weapons always work to the lowest common denominator, not the highest.

 

[Phil-D]

Whilst I appreciate the need for RFDs and trained coaches to check the mount of the weapon and the sight picture, rather than eulogise this, I'd rather see you supporting the general concept that buggering about with
weapons is not a cool idea and that muzzle end images should only be taken in exceptional circumstances and for very specific reasons.

Whilst you may think that is treating the average weapon handler as if they have childlike intelligence, that's generally believed to be the safest option.
Otherwise someone, somewhere, will look at a photograph like this, think 'Ooooh, that's a cool idea' and try it themselves...

...with a bloody big bang as a result.

With weapons always work to the lowest common denominator, not the highest.

Where I have I said that I don't support any of the above? Do you honestly think that I'm encouraging people to bugger about with guns!? .......I'd like answer to that please Mark

What I have said, more than once, is that, as long as the correct procedure is followed, you don't need to be a trained coach or a RFD to check gun fit. Also you won't get asked to leave or banned from a shooting ground for checking gun fit correctly. .........How many more times :banghead::banghead:

 

[DemiLion]

Say it as many times as you want.

Just to clarify...

So you are OK with people taking shots like this for Facebook profile pictures are you? Because frankly I think that it is bloody stupid.

FYI - trained weapons instructor and qualified range safety officer in calibres ranging from 0.22" to 180mm, including explosive disposal and field firing.

 

[arthurbikemad]

It's an interesting subject and image, I am a FAC section 1, must admit I don't know why I don't post pics of weapons etc, maybe it's just the taboo side of it all, I guess from a safty point of view I made the assumption that the camera was tripod mounted and on a timer or remote release, only as wether open or closed, loaded or not, I was taught never to point a weapon at anyone, perhaps that's why people may react in certain ways as the image brakes the rules.. who knows... anyway, nice pepper pot.

 

[Phil-D]

So you are OK with people taking shots like this for Facebook profile pictures are you? Because frankly I think that it is bloody stupid.

Of course not, that would be stupid, did I say I was? But there are loads of images like Colins on the internet, anyone could download one, just like I did, and put it on facebook ....................are we just going round in circles here

 

[DemiLion]

Of course not, that would be stupid, did I say I was?

Well it's fairly easy to make that conclusion given:

I made sure the gun was empty before taking the first photo... Profile pic for his FB page if you get what I mean .....

This is why I find Colins image acceptable, it doesn't 'send shivers down my spine' , I presumed full precautions had been taken, so didn't see him as an idiot,

 

[Johnny7000]

I knew it was a mistake coming back to this thread, another totally OTT and wrong statement :banghead:

John, have you not read any of the above on gun fit and mount?

Gun fit and mount under professional guidance and what is in this thread is two completely different scenarios.
I sincerely hope you don`t have an FAC or SGC because that will be the biggest mistake of all ...... period.

 

[Greengo]

Had I foreseen the reaction these photo's have garnered I would not have put them on the site. Admin feel free to remove.

I do take umbrage with being called an idiot though. For me this post is bang out of order. Attack the post yes, but not the poster... I can take criticism on my pics and the criticism levelled on this thread has been noted but there was no need for you to level comments at me like this.

The OP obviously has no clue about the first thing regarding guns. NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANYONE LOADED OR UNLOADED.Seems to me he is a complete idiot who should not be allowed anywhere near a gun let alone hold a shotgun

 

[Phil-D]

Well it's fairly easy to make that conclusion given:

You can twist things to look like you want, I said the image was acceptable nothing else! So you are wrong.

Gun fit and mount under professional guidance and what is in this thread is two completely different scenarios.
I sincerely hope you don`t have an FAC or SGC because that will be the biggest mistake of all ...... period.

John, you can have no idea what you are talking about, I don't have to prove myself to you........and don't get personal on an internet form, we can all spout sat at the back of a keyboard!

This is going to be my last post on this thread. Through my own fault I've been drawn into an internet form argument, something I'm not happy about. Lack of knowledge can be very dangerous, I'm surprised by some of the replies on this thread but we are all entitled to our opinion but lets get some facts straight, yes, these are facts, not internet myths, not 'my mate says,but facts

1: Dry mounting a shotgun whilst some one looks down the barrels is a very import part of checking correct gun mount/ fit.
2:It is done 1000's of times a day around the world, at every gun shop and clay shooting club.
3: As long as you have a shotgun certificate, you can be a coach, nothing else is required, you can charge for this service, making you a professional @Johnny7000
4: Photos like Colins are taken on a regular basis to help with mount/gun fit
5: The internet is full of them, do a search
6:An empty gun of any sort has never shot anyone

Lets say it again, all the above are facts

Edit : Just to keep the likes of Mark and John happy, although it should go without saying please do not try this unless you are fully aware of the correct procedure

@DemiLion And seeing as you've got a little petty, I'll stoop to your level. You accused me of encouraging people to bugger about with guns but you said this " an hour or so in the back garden with a couple of traps" You think that's acceptable? I certainly don't.
The other thing you've done through this thread is you refer to a shotgun as a weapon, which in principle it is, but I have never heard and hope I never hear a shotgun referred to as a weapon at any clay shooting ground, if I did I would politely put that person right.
With the qualification you claim to have, I hope that you would agree, that anyone going into a gun shop and asking to buy a 'weapon' to shoot clays, would not only be refused one, but the RDF would make a note of their certificate number and report it to the local FLO

 

[DemiLion]

a) It's a weapon. Whether you like the phrase or not, that's what it is. It has the capacity to kill and/or maim and does so very efficiently against small game.

and

b) ' " an hour or so in the back garden with a couple of traps" You think that's acceptable? I certainly don't.'

The garden than I'm thinking of is about 20 acres, has two permanently rigged traps (one on a high stand) and a half acre trout pond to boot.
Perfectly acceptable in my view.
See, things can be twisted, can't they?



Lastly:

"6: An empty gun of any sort has never shot anyone"


No, one hasn't. Strangely however, an awful lot of guns that the owner/handler though was empty have actually, in real life, shot and killed people.

You seem to have a somewhat American approach to weapons handling - ie 'It's fine, I know what I'm doing.'
Well I've got news for you... one day, you may well f$%k up!

 

[big soft moose]

What I have said, more than once, is that, as long as the correct procedure is followed, you don't need to be a trained coach or a RFD to check gun fit. Also you won't get asked to leave or banned from a shooting ground for checking gun fit correctly. .........How many more times :banghead::banghead:

the sailent point here is the OP is not checking gun fit - hes buggering about with a camera.. checking gun fit may necessitate standing in front like that, but its something that clubs/firearms officers etc would see as only if absolutely necessary, taking a picture doesn't fall into that category. (and you could if you wanted take the same picture using a remote release to avoid standing in line of fire)

Also I wonder how many times after a firearms accident the proximate cause is "oh I was sure i unloaded that" or words to that effect

b*****ks aside - from a photographic point of view in the first one i'd have preffered to see the focal point on the barrel with the face in soft focus

 

[chris.]

Pull.......................................... Miss

 

[Mrrikki]

Totally different situation and circumstances Rikki, please don't ask me why, if you have a FAC, I shouldn't have to explain it

Whilst having or checking a shotgun mount/fit, its quite acceptable to point the gun as in Colin's image above whilst some one else looks down the barrels, as long as its done in the correct way its perfectly ok...........how many more times

I can only presume that there isn't one single person that's replied to this thread that's either bought a gun from a RFD/ had a gun fitted or mount checked.....they can't have. simple as that.....if you have please speak up and tell me another way

How about you give this bloke a ring and tell him what you think, see where that gets you (See image below) and here's a link to his web site http://www.perazzihpxshotguns.com/professional-gun-fitting-service/

Now before anyone starts with the 'he's a professional, he knows what he's doing' bit, gun mount can be checked by anyone that knows what to look for. Also note this, taken from the web site

' I can not get it perfect until I shoot the gun on clay targets and believe me, I get it very close in the workshop. So in a nutshell, it can ONLY be done correctly, on a shooting ground'


Do you get my jist now @KIPAX , (note the smiley, they're inserted to try make a post a little more light-hearted and not condescending, but how you interpret them is up to you ) so as you wrongly stated in post #4, you would not be thrown out and banned,

This is why I find Colins image acceptable, it doesn't 'send shivers down my spine' , I presumed full precautions had been taken, so didn't see him as an idiot, like some @realspeed

Gun-Fitting-Image by Phil Dyson, on Flickr

I have a FAC not a shotgun licence, either way I don't have to agree with you and you don't have to agree with me, I would not do this whatever the circumstances personally.