Tamron SP 150-600mm F5-6.3 DI IF VC USD

BBR said:
Why did tamron choose to demonstrate this lens on a camera that couldn't focus it at the long end? I tried focussing at c.300mm and it was fine, but at 600mm, no chance. Be aware of the limitation on this lens, if you can live with it then fine but it is a budget lens.
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Chances are this is the standard of camera that it will be used on, if someone is using a Canon 1DX or similar they are likely to be a pro and would/could be using the higher priced prime lenses.
 
Mark my words, 2 years from now every announcement will be f8 as standard.

Big features like that are always introduced in the most expensive bodies and then filtered down.

Also Chris, the 7D is really old tech now at 5 years old...
 
OOI, could someone inform me what body people were testing this lens on which demonstrated such poor AF performance ? Thanks in advance.
 
heard all the arguments for and against ,to many complaints to all be user error ,so although i want one i,m going to hold back to see if it sorts itself out and hopefully drops a bit in price to,
but i DID get to try one out at the show on sunday and i was impressed by the build quality and general feel ,i then bolted one on to my own 60d body and took some test shots .it does look like a good buy from what i captured and appraising my bird shots 95% are perched anyway so so its starting to look viable .heres one of the test shots
canon 60d
raw
multi point a/f
600mm
iso1250
f.6.3
1/25 th of a sec YEP THATS THE RIGHT SPEED
HAND HELD

150-600 sample by blackfox wildlife and nature imaging, on Flickr

NOT TO SHABBY IMHO
 
still some queries re compatibility with some bodies though ,my gut feeling is they won't actually admit to it as it would be admitting to failure ,but the following batches might be altered without admission .the japs don't like losing face historically .i remember having a old sigma 80-400 years ago that i sent back and had re-chipped ,perhaps this might happen .
its always the problem with new stuff ,nothings immune to it
 
jerry12953 said:
Can someone clarify something for me, please?

The Canon 5d3 will autofocus at f8 but only using the central focus point. Would it autofocus at f8 using a range of focus points on a f6.3 lens like this new Tamron (Bigron?).
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Probably not, without checking the manual I know my mk 3 uses centre point only if the lens has an effective aperture of f8, on my 5.6 lens it uses a number of points, add the 1.4 converter and it thinks its f8, so I'm guessing it would treat a f6.3 as an f8 and be centre point only.
 
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Phil Young said:
Mark my words, 2 years from now every announcement will be f8 as standard.

Big features like that are always introduced in the most expensive bodies and then filtered down.

Also Chris, the 7D is really old tech now at 5 years old...
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The 1 series have had f8 focusing for ages, many many years, but it hasnt filtered down (yet) to bottom or middlerange cameras. The 5Dmk3 is seen as a "cheap" alternative to a 1 series (and always has been), I guess as the 5dmk3 is essentially the same with a few bits missing as a 1 series Canon may have thought if they didnt get f8 working on both (and remember initially they were shipping with f5.6 only as max aperture AF) then someone would create a solution in a bit of new firmware (think Magic Lantern).
Personally I doubt f8 will be on the majority of new Canon cameras, just no need for it and most users wouldnt understand the impact or be able to use it anyway, they'll have kit lenses that will have an aperure of better than f5.6. Opening Af up to f8 on all their cameras will play into the hands of the independant lens makers as Canon have no f8 lens so would need to develop new lenses to match new bodies. Anyone putting a TC on a prime or compatable zoom (L series lenses) would be semi pro (probably) or pretty wealthy so wouldnt have an entry level camera. I wait to be proven wrong of course but I see more development in video/dynamic range/wifi etc being likely (sorry if that's all off topic).

Matt
 
MatBin said:
Probably not, without checking the manual I know my mk 3 uses centre point only if the lens has an effective aperture of f8, on my 5.6 lens it uses a number of points, add the 1.4 converter and it thinks its f8, so I'm guessing it would treat a f6.3 as an f8 and be centre point only.
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Same with my 5d3.

HoppyUK has done a review of this lens for one of the mags, but it isn't out yet. He would know.

Richard, where are you?
 
The digital picture full review and lens comparison confirms what a lot of users have been saying. When compared to the Canon 100-400 +1.4x tc (560mm f8) the Tammy at 600mm f8 is far better!!. It is also better than the 400/5.6 + 1.4x tc when both at f8.
As far as the focusing issue is concerned it is when tracking a subject in AI servo mode at the long end of the zoom that has been causing a problem on certain older Cameras (1D3, 1D4, 7D and older croppers). With FF like the 6D, 5D3 and 1DX it is reported to work fine. There does not appear to a problem with AF on any Camera when shooting in one shot mode.
The f6.3 wide open at the long end (it is f.5.6 at 400mm) does not cause a problem with any Canon Camera as it uses the same trick that has been used with all the third party f6.3 lenses for many years (Sigma 150-500, 50-500, 120-400 .... plus all the older Tamron long lenses.). It fools the Camera into thinking it is f5.6 so AF does not close down. Obviously it is a 'slow' lens at f6.3 and will always be better in good light but it is only a third of a stop slower than some of the Canon 'slow' lenses like he 100-400 and 400/5.6.

BTW even with one of the 'effected' Cameras with the AI Servo issue there is still an easy workaround by using a back button to AF and using the pump/bump AF method (I have been using back button AF and focus pumping for years anyway). Not 100% ideal but it would still allow BIF shots on any Camera if you used this method.

P.S. I have never used anything except Canon 'L' lenses for birds before but am seriously interested in the Tammy as a lightweight walkaround 600mm lens
 
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Roy C said:
The digital picture full review and lens comparison confirms what a lot of users have been saying. When compared to the Canon 100-400 +1.4x tc (560mm f8) the Tammy at 600mm f8 is far better!!. It is also better than the 400/5.6 + 1.4x tc when both at f8.
As far as the focusing issue is concerned it is when tracking a subject in AI servo mode at the long end of the zoom that has been causing a problem on certain older Cameras (1D3, 1D4, 7D and older croppers). With FF like the 6D, 5D3 and 1DX it is reported to work fine. There does not appear to a problem with AF on any Camera when shooting in one shot mode.
The f6.3 wide open at the long end (it is f.5.6 at 400mm) does not cause a problem with any Canon Camera as it uses the same trick that has been used with all the third party f6.3 lenses for many years (Sigma 150-500, 50-500, 135-400 .... plus all the older Tamron long lenses.). It fools the Camera into thinking it is f5.6 so AF does not close down. Obviously it is a 'slow' lens at f6.3 and will always be better in good light but it is only a half stop slower than some of the Canon 'slow' lenses like he 100-400 and 400/.6.
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Many thanks for that explanation, Roy. And of course it is only f6.3 at the long end.......
 
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its a sub £1000 lens at the end of the day ,the V.R is suberb the i/q excellent ,the only problem i would have would be with b.i.f at full range on my 1D3 .personally i will wait till there in reasonable full supply and try one in a daylight normal shooting mode ,one of my flickr contacts has just bought one so hopefully we can meet up and give it a spin .
whatever its going to be a compromise as long as that compromise doesn't drive me insane i,ll go for it .

at this moment in time i can get to 560mm with a 400 and 1.4 tc but i/q is not that marvellous .really sat on the fence on this hmmmmmmmm
 
Roy C said:
P.S. I have never used anything except Canon 'L' lenses for birds before but am seriously interested in the Tammy as a lightweight walkaround 600mm lens
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I'd never call this a "lightweight" lens... definitely noticably heavier than my Canon 100-400mm but really impressed so far!
 
Anyone any idea when this is available for Nikon?

Had a quick look, on Tamron's site, but couldn't see any date.
 
Phil Young said:
Mark my words, 2 years from now every announcement will be f8 as standard.

Big features like that are always introduced in the most expensive bodies and then filtered down.

Also Chris, the 7D is really old tech now at 5 years old...
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I've no idea what draws you to that conclusion Phil.

The 1 series Canons have had AF at f8 since before they went digital and only 2 non 1 series cameras have so far included it, the EOS3 (film camera) and now the 5dIII, that's hardly a sign that the market is moving that way. They must have designed 100 cameras since they've had the option to add it, and managed to only put it on a dozen or so.

My guess would be a similar story with Nikon (though I don't know the figures ottomh), bearing in mind that for half that time Nikon's AF was considerably behind the Canon tech.
 
Phil V said:
I've no idea what draws you to that conclusion Phil.

The 1 series Canons have had AF at f8 since before they went digital and only 2 non 1 series cameras have so far included it, the EOS3 (film camera) and now the 5dIII, that's hardly a sign that the market is moving that way. They must have designed 100 cameras since they've had the option to add it, and managed to only put it on a dozen or so.

My guess would be a similar story with Nikon (though I don't know the figures ottomh), bearing in mind that for half that time Nikon's AF was considerably behind the Canon tech.
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The same thinking that would have drawn me to the conclusion of every new camera going to ISO6400 five years ago (when there were many bodies that were able to shoot at 6400, now it's standard.

Now, there's a few camera's thst focus to f8, soon it will be standard to all bodies. Evolution, not revolution.

I stand to be correct in two years time.
 
Phil Young said:
The same thinking that would have drawn me to the conclusion of every new camera going to ISO6400 five years ago (when there were many bodies that were able to shoot at 6400, now it's standard.

Now, there's a few camera's thst focus to f8, soon it will be standard to all bodies. Evolution, not revolution.

I stand to be correct in two years time.
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But the dates Phil?

The improving ISO is easy to predict, but F8 AF has been available nearly 20 years*! Even if the reason it's been kept to the most expensive bodies was pure marketing, it'd take someone breaking rank to shift that.

*The EOS1N was launched in 1994

And since then all EOS1 cameras can AF at f8 and only 2 other Canon cameras, it's hardly a 'trend' coming down the range. In fact it's the opposite, it's something freely available in Pro bodies that's never been considered for consumer cameras in 20 years.

Motor drives/processing speeds have trickled down, megapixels have trickled down, the number of AF points has trickled down (more slowly)

You have to ask why the sensitivity of AF points has improved dramatically, but the most sensitive ones have only appeared on the very top end bodies, for nearly 20 years.

As you say ISO performance has been improving (which is more a generational than a trickled down thing though) a modern consumer camera has better high ISO performance than an old pro camera, but which one has better AF?

I think there's the answer. The 70d is a 'better' camera than a 12 year old 1d in almost every way, but the AF system isn't as good. That technology isn't really trickling down. In fact the 70d is probably the father of all future DSLR's for it's live view AF performance, it's a game changer, but as a stills camera, it's still got an inferior AF system to the old pro.
 
The technology has been there for years to be able to put the pro AF into consumer cameras but they wont do it simply because sales of the mega expensive 1 series will be massivly hit

Nikon learned this expensive mistake by putting the exact same AF system from the D3 into the D700, sales of the D3 plumeted because if you bought the D700 at a third of the price of the D3 and stuck a £30 chinese battery grip on to boost the fps to 8fps you had yourself a D3 at a massive saving

Its also part of the reason Nikon will never introduce a genune D300S replacement, the D300S was based on the same pro body as the D700 but it was a DX body, the AF was superb and it is still the best DX camera for AF performance available today in either camp, you simply couldnt improve on it without it having an adverse effect on the pro D3/D3S/D4 sales, you still see many, many pros using the D300S at major cricket venues because in good light the AF is top knotch and the crop factor of the DX camera allows use of less expensive shorter focal length lenses.
 
Gary Coyle said:
The technology has been there for years to be able to put the pro AF into consumer cameras but they wont do it simply because sales of the mega expensive 1 series will be massivly hit

Nikon learned this expensive mistake by putting the exact same AF system from the D3 into the D700, sales of the D3 plumeted because if you bought the D700 at a third of the price of the D3 and stuck a £30 chinese battery grip on to boost the fps to 8fps you had yourself a D3 at a massive saving

Its also part of the reason Nikon will never introduce a genune D300S replacement, the D300S was based on the same pro body as the D700 but it was a DX body, the AF was superb and it is still the best DX camera for AF performance available today in either camp, you simply couldnt improve on it without it having an adverse effect on the pro D3/D3S/D4 sales, you still see many, many pros using the D300S at major cricket venues because in good light the AF is top knotch and the crop factor of the DX camera allows use of less expensive shorter focal length lenses.
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Phil - this is where I was going with my point.

Technology has to show innovation and evolution, weather or not the technology is there isn't here nor there, the market has started filtering it down now and consumers will expect it as a standard function in years to come.

There was a material that a sensor was made out of and could take an image in near darkness with good quality (forget the name of it) but if they show that hand now, they'd lose loads of money in the run up to showing that piece of innovation. When it is brought out, people will expect it on other bodies too.

Look at FF digital, yes I know about the 1DS models have been around for years but now it is becoming popular in consumer models and even compacts!

FPS is the same - the nikon D1 was 1.5fps, now you wouldn't even buy a compact for that! Was the technology there for faster frames? Of course, the D1s was 4.5fps but why would they damage sales of the D1 by showing that hand?

Look at MP, 8 years ago, the pro body had 12. Now, entry levels have 24!

I think that is where I'm going with my thought pattern - I reckon in a couple of years time, most announcements will have f8 focusing.

We can go over dinosaur history if you like, but that's my guess of the future.
 
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All of a sudden there are stacks of reviews out, DP, photography blog, DSLR magazine.

Everyone likes it!

Must get out again with mine sometime;)
 
Phil Young said:
Phil - this is where I was going with my point.

Technology has to show innovation and evolution, weather or not the technology is there isn't here nor there, the market has started filtering it down now and consumers will expect it as a standard function in years to come.

There was a material that a sensor was made out of and could take an image in near darkness with good quality (forget the name of it) but if they show that hand now, they'd lose loads of money in the run up to showing that piece of innovation. When it is brought out, people will expect it on other bodies too.

Look at FF digital, yes I know about the 1DS models have been around for years but now it is becoming popular in consumer models and even compacts!

FPS is the same - the nikon D1 was 1.5fps, now you wouldn't even buy a compact for that! Was the technology there for faster frames? Of course, the D1s was 4.5fps but why would they damage sales of the D1 by showing that hand?

Look at MP, 8 years ago, the pro body had 12. Now, entry levels have 24!

I think that is where I'm going with my thought pattern - I reckon in a couple of years time, most announcements will have f8 focusing.

We can go over dinosaur history if you like, but that's my guess of the future.
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Phil
This is going round in circles. wrote a long answer but I've deleted it because it's pointless. We'll stick with 'You're just wrong' :)
 
Too slow for me but seems decent enough lens for range at low cost.

Came across this review today which may or may not be useful. Didn't see it posted but I was skimming:D

Now a 600mm f5.6 for £1000- if they built one of those, that would be exciting:p;)
 
Phil Young said:
I CAN'T be wrong, it's my guess of the future and that hasn't come to pass yet.

If it makes you feel better to be right though, I won't comment anymore on what you reply...
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You can be wrong Phil, you just can't be proved wrong yet. I'm a picky little f***er when it comes to that kind of thing. I'm hoping there's now a link to this thread in your calendar for March 6th 2016.
 
Phil & Phil there's an easy answer to this- a wager. Want me to hold the money 'til 2016?
 
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