The 2014 Season F1 Thread

andy700 said:
I have watched it several times now, and I am convinced that Nico braked or lifted off, when Lewis cut back across him. The fact that it was only the end part of the front diffuser which punctured Lewis' N/S rear, shows that there was almost no coming together.
When Lewis was at McClaren he tried a few dodgy moves on Jensen, one of which resulted in Lewis having to retire.
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Without access to the telemetry data, there's little point on speculating as to whether Nico or Lewis lifted. Nico needed to lift and did turn right though, that much can be seen from the in cockpit video footage. Lewis had a corner to make so took an apex that he was entitled to as he was ahead, so he turned left. On this occasion a bit harsh to say he cut back across Nico IMHO. At best Nico made an error of judgement by placing the nose of his car into an area of diminishing space made worse by not then running wide (as per Vettel on the previous lap) to avoid the inevitable contact. He then again at best, misjudged the point where he tried to regain the racing line.

I think that had Nico simply admitted to making an error of judgement, he would have avoided much of the criticism that has come his way. To even imply that he chose not to avoid the contact in order to make a point, is again a misjudgement on his part.

Lewis doesn't do himself any favours by whining all the time, doesn't seem to be able to learn this and seems to be unable to grasp the big picture. He is also guilty of being too aggressive at times, which is just as inexcusable as when others do it.

It does seem to me that people forget that had McLaren not ballsed up in China, Lewis would have won the championship in his rookie year with Alonso as a team mate. Give the guy some credit, as a racing driver he really is one the quickest ever.

First rule of motor racing is surely to not run into the car in front? They tell you that before you sit in your first kart..
 
GeeJay57 said:
Without access to the telemetry data, there's little point on speculating as to whether Nico or Lewis lifted. Nico needed to lift and did turn right though, that much can be seen from the in cockpit video footage.
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Here is the footage from various angles.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/28922996

Rosberg had to turn the wheel right to take the corner, but he actually made a sharp left adjustment immediately before they touched. In my opinion Lewis was not that far ahead to cut across for the apex. I think that Lewis was hoping to run Nico off the track, onto the artificial grass, which as we know would have resulted in Nico spinning and probably crashing out.
 
andy700 said:
Here is the footage from various angles.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/28922996

Rosberg had to turn the wheel right to take the corner, but he actually made a sharp left adjustment immediately before they touched. In my opinion Lewis was not that far ahead to cut across for the apex. I think that Lewis was hoping to run Nico off the track, onto the artificial grass, which as we know would have resulted in Nico spinning and probably crashing out.
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It's funny how people can see the same short clip so differently. It looked to me like rosberg snapped the wheel left to catch a slight slide then back right at which point he hit Hamilton who was crossing left for the next turn. In fact, I've just watched the link back pausing to slow it down & rosbergs last steering input before the collision is towards Hamilton.

Hamilton was clearly ahead and took the racing line as was his right. Earlier in the year there was a similar incident where Hamilton cut back more aggressively and Rosberg easily avoided contact without spinning. There was plenty of track on his left so he should have either done the same as before or lifted off and tucked into second. Instead he chose to make no effort to avoid a collision (which he admitted after the race) which in my opinion is completely unacceptable behaviour.

Did anyone else notice rosbergs sarcastic comment to the race director over the radio later in the race?
 
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H2O said:
Did anyone else notice rosbergs sarcastic comment to the race director over the radio later in the race?
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Oh yes
He is riding a wave at the moment soon it will swamp him
If Monarco hadnt happenend I would have believed it was a racing incident, now the jury is out
The question is how will Mercedes disipline Nico, they have made it plain that they will do something
Toto said if Lewis thinks we can only slap wrists he dosnt know what we can do, or words to that effect
My guess is they will talk tough and do the opposite same as all this season, they are loosing credability rapidly
 
With the lead that Mercedes has in the constructors championship they could drop Rosberg and replace him with a test driver for the race at Monza and still not impact on the gap over Red Bull.

Would they do this, who knows :confused:
 
Rosberg saying that he remembers the meeting differently to hamilton, but merc saying that hamiltons version 'broadly correct'
this one will rumble for a while.
 
I suppose Mercedes could possibly sack or suspend Rosberg if they believed he had crashed into Hamilton deliberately but it would get messy and lawyers would get richer! IMO Mercedes are pretty much a shoe in for the titles as long as they don't implode (so no belching and farting at the same time, lads!!!)
 
Comfortably Numb said:
Mountain out of a molehill, for me. Racing incident, plain & simple misjudgement.
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Nope. Nico said he had a point to prove. He had a very public row with the team bosses on Thursday still simmering over Hamilton not letting him past in the last race, despite him not actually getting close to Hamilton. It's no longer about the championship. Nico is out to prove he's a better driver. 8 poles, two wins though, he's not great at converting them.

Lewis defeated. His had an engine burn at the last race, they have limited engines. Seemed sensible to me.
 
I see magnussen got demoted. If I was Jensen I'd be having a word. He ran him off the road, when there was an opportunity to let Jensen past and carry on blocking. Would have been better points for the team.
 
Byker28i said:
Nope. Nico said he had a point to prove. He had a very public row with the team bosses on Thursday still simmering over Hamilton not letting him past in the last race, despite him not actually getting close to Hamilton. It's no longer about the championship. Nico is out to prove he's a better driver. 8 poles, two wins though, he's not great at converting them.

Lewis defeated. His had an engine burn at the last race, they have limited engines. Seemed sensible to me.
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I don't doubt that Nico was being more aggresive than usual, in running around the outside into the chicane, & probably isn't going to apologise for that. I suspect he feels like Lewis has the upper hand when they're wheel to wheel, & Lewis never give an inch. But it would be stupid for him to risk losing his wing, & more often than not the other car doesn't get punctured anyway. Nico is not stupid.

I'm afraid I don't give too much credence to Hamilton's version of there "meeting", which Wollf descibed as "very heated" & had a more reasonable understanding of.

I also think that Nico is more of a considered racer, & it's all about the championship with him.
 
Comfortably Numb said:
Mountain out of a molehill, for me. Racing incident, plain & simple misjudgement.
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:agree:

Couldn't agree more! Forget the media, the hyperbole and Twitter; two racing cars touched, one punctured and then its flailing tyre damaged the floor; the other tagged its front wing. Big deal! It happens a dozen times every weekend when single seaters race! Of course there'll be no penalty or further action after the social media moves onto the next important thing!

By the way, for what it's worth, when I first went motor racing, I very quickly learnt "the rules are ... there are no rules!!" The real reason you don't want to run into the back of another open-wheeler is think of the way the wheels rotate. The guy behind is always the poor b*****d who's shot twenty feet up into the air! That's why brake testing is so effective ;)
 
Comfortably Numb said:
Mountain out of a molehill, for me. Racing incident, plain & simple misjudgement.
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Would be if you ignored the history of this season
Mercedes top brass dont think its a mole hill
Its not so much about what actually happened as to the fact it should never have happened
If Mercedes are anything of a team both drivers are going to cop aload for this malfunction, Nico deservidly the most
This may be news to Lewis and Nico but the drivers do not control the team At the moment it appears toto and his side kick lauda are loosing control and I expect both of those are getting there R's kicked by those higher than them
They have to do something on a large scale to regain control or it will just go on repeating the tit for tat on the track
 
Yves Geza said:
:agree:


By the way, for what it's worth, when I first went motor racing, I very quickly learnt "the rules are ... there are no rules!!"
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Times have changed since 1960 ;)

If one thing has changed in F1, it's the library of books of rules that now govern motorsport in general, and F1 specifically...
 
fuzzyedges said:
Would be if you ignored the history of this season
Mercedes top brass dont think its a mole hill
Its not so much about what actually happened as to the fact it should never have happened
If Mercedes are anything of a team both drivers are going to cop aload for this malfunction, Nico deservidly the most
This may be news to Lewis and Nico but the drivers do not control the team At the moment it appears toto and his side kick lauda are loosing control and I expect both of those are getting there R's kicked by those higher than them
They have to do something on a large scale to regain control or it will just go on repeating the tit for tat on the track
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I agree that this is a big ongoing problem for the team. But I think they might be going extra heavy on Nico to dispell rumours that they favour him, rumours that Lewis has eluded to.
 
Byker28i said:
I see magnussen got demoted. If I was Jensen I'd be having a word. He ran him off the road, when there was an opportunity to let Jensen past and carry on blocking. Would have been better points for the team.
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I think Kevin was penalised for squeezing Alonso onto the grass on the way up to turn 5. He was a bit over aggressive and was lucky not to collect someone, not least as you mention, his team mate. That there was no contact between Magnussen et al further illustrates how clumsy Nico was in falling over the back of Lewis..
 
I thought Nico was supposedly the 'thinker' kind of driver, why try that risky move on lap 2 when on the next lap he would have had DRS to help him. I know he's said he was making a point but not too sure what point it was he was trying to make. If it was that he could race hard wheel to wheel then I think he failed at that, if it was to show he won't back down in a corner then I guess he made that point but at what cost.

All round poor judgement by Nico, I know drivers have been known to clip a front wing on occasions but these are supposed to be the best in the world on lap 2 of a 44 lap race!

Not sure what Mercedes will be able to do to punish Nico as Toto has said, short of kicking him out of the car for a race or so how are they going to get Lewis the 25 points he lost?
 
GeeJay57 said:
I think Kevin was penalised for squeezing Alonso onto the grass on the way up to turn 5. He was a bit over aggressive and was lucky not to collect someone, not least as you mention, his team mate. That there was no contact between Magnussen et al further illustrates how clumsy Nico was in falling over the back of Lewis..
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Yup penalised for the move, or moves on Alonso. However, he also aggressively blocked his team mate, causing him to lose two places when Button was faster and could have been gone whilst magnusson continued his battle.
 
I think what people are missing here with the millisecond by millisecond account and replays is that it happened in less than 1 second and at the end of the fastest sector on the circuit. A split second decision was made and it was just an inch too close.

I agree that it looks like Rosberg tried to catch some oversteer (maybe an effect of braking to avoid Lewis?) But when you consider all the things that were happening at the time (cars behind, oversteer, car cutting in front) then I think Rosberg did alright. The only mistake he made was risking it when a lap later DRS would have been available and he could have breezed past.
 
Sorry, the mistake he made was poking the nose of his car into a diminishing space. Race craft 101 says that's likely to end in tears... Doing it on lap 2 is/was pretty dim...
 
george g said:
I think what people are missing here with the millisecond by millisecond account and replays is that it happened in less than 1 second and at the end of the fastest sector on the circuit. A split second decision was made and it was just an inch too close.

I agree that it looks like Rosberg tried to catch some oversteer (maybe an effect of braking to avoid Lewis?) But when you consider all the things that were happening at the time (cars behind, oversteer, car cutting in front) then I think Rosberg did alright. The only mistake he made was risking it when a lap later DRS would have been available and he could have breezed past.
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Jenson Button dosnt agree
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28931224
 
GeeJay57 said:
Probably no more than DC or Anthony Davidson who also felt that Nico was at fault and not Lewis....
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Lol, sorry that post was a bit tongue in cheek. If a current driver is saying Nico was at fault then can't really argue it the other way.
 
george g said:
Lol, sorry that post was a bit tongue in cheek. If a current driver is saying Nico was at fault then can't really argue it the other way.
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Yeah, no worries I did get your intended humour...
 
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FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014


12_Italy_E_72DPI.jpg


Monza
Race Date: 07 Sep 2014
Circuit Name: Autodromo di Monza
First Grand Prix: 1950
Number of Laps: 53
Circuit Length: 5.793 km
Race Distance: 306.720 km
Lap Record: 1:21.046 - R Barrichello (2004)

UK Times
Fri 05 September 2014
Practice 1 09:00 - 10:30
Practice 2 13:00 - 14:30
Sat 06 September 2014
Practice 3 10:00 - 11:00
Qualifying 13:00
Sun 07 September 2014
Race 13:00

Previous Winners
2013 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Monza
2012 Lewis Hamilton McLaren Monza
2011 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Monza
2010 Fernando Alonso Ferrari Monza
2009 Rubens Barrichello Brawn GP Monza
2008 Sebastian Vettel Toro Rosso Monza
2007 Fernando Alonso McLaren Monza
2006 Michael Schumacher Ferrari Monza
2005 Juan Pablo Montoya McLaren Monza
2004 Rubens Barrichello Ferrari Monza
2003 Michael Schumacher Ferrari Monza
2002 Rubens Barrichello Ferrari Monza
2001 Juan Pablo Montoya Williams Monza
2000 Michael Schumacher Ferrari Monza
1999 Heinz-Harald Frentzen Jordan Monza
1998 Michael Schumacher Ferrari Monza
1997 David Coulthard McLaren Monza
1996 Michael Schumacher Ferrari Monza

Hamilton 2012 pole on board
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Monza 1956
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Facts from the last race
Daniel Ricciardo is now a three-times race winner. That means he’s won as many races as at least two world champions – Mike Hawthorn (1958) and Phil Hill (1961).

Ricciardo remains the only driver to have capitalised on the dramas at Mercedes to score a win of his own this year. The upshot is he has now won 25% of the races this year despite leading just 9.6% of the laps raced.

Ricciardo also gave Red Bull their 50th F1 win, and scored the 38th for an Australian driver. That means Australians have now won as many F1 race as Argentinians have.

He’s also been in the points for the last ten races in a row. Only Fernando Alonso has a long streak at the moment, having scored in the last 15 rounds.

Rosberg now has 11 poles and nine fastest laps – the latter putting him level with Jacques Villeneuve, Denny Hulme and Ronnie Peterson.

Valtteri Bottas took third place after a late pass on Kimi Raikkonen. This was significant, as it meant there was no world champion on the podium.

This last happened at the 2010 Monaco Grand Prix, when Mark Webber led home eventual champion Sebastian Vettel and Robert Kubica.

Raikkonen at least enjoyed his best result of the year so far – fourth – and finished in front of his team mate for the first time this season, becoming the last driver in the field to do so this year – with the obvious exception of Andre Lotterer.

Making his debut at the age of 32 years and 287 days, Lotterer was the oldest rookie in an F1 field since Giovanni Lavaggi started the 1995 German Grand Prix for Pacific, aged 37 years and 191 days.



Penalty points so far
Jules Bianchi 4
Pastor Maldonado 4
Kevin Magnussen 4
Valtteri Bottas 2
Adrian Sutil 2
Marcus Ericsson 2
Jean-Eric Vergne 1


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Another good race
Bottas and ricardo the heros plus early on Lewis
Were the last laps orcastrated, did nico practise the chicane for Lewis
Toto says this wasnt the internal penalty OH yeah
Lewis says nico and himself are friends they are team mates
I reckon the body language between them was at odds to that
 
I've driven the marrussia simulator at Monza. 5 laps each, big prize for the best combined lap time and best single lap.

90% of the drivers through it down the escape road or spun at that chicane pushing the braking to too late.
Lewis was catching lap after lap, I think he just put nico under pressure and the whole pressure of events since spa just affected him.
 
Byker28i said:
I've driven the marrussia simulator at Monza. 5 laps each, big prize for the best combined lap time and best single lap.

90% of the drivers through it down the escape road or spun at that chicane pushing the braking to too late.
Lewis was catching lap after lap, I think he just put nico under pressure and the whole pressure of events since spa just affected him.
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and 50% of the fans will agree with that I am sure
 
I would like to know what Nico was saying to the Merc guy when he started speaking Italian before the presentation, Hamilton & Massa chatted in the background and left them to it.
 
Barso said:
I would like to know what Nico was saying to the Merc guy when he started speaking Italian before the presentation, Hamilton & Massa chatted in the background and left them to it.
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Yes it was nice of Nico to chat to the merc guy and then Massa in italian and then chat to Lewis oh on second thoughts he didnt did he But they are the best of friends
 
Rosbergs body language was pretty much Leave Me Alone but to be fair, he had just been fairly well outdriven. Hamilton was much quicker on the day, and reeled him in very quickly.
 
Matt said:
Rosbergs body language was pretty much Leave Me Alone but to be fair, he had just been fairly well outdriven. Hamilton was much quicker on the day, and reeled him in very quickly.
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He didnt seem to be leave me alone when talking to Massa he was even joking in italian of course
Didnt he just reel him in but if Nico hadnt gone straight would he have taken him thats the question
 
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i meant body language to Hamilton

he was closing on Rosberg, he may well have struggled to pass him but he would certainly have tried.
 
FWIW I think Lewis would have got past Nico, probably not on that lap but on the next. I also think the reason that Nico was talking Italian in such an obvious way was to be seen to be doing something that Lewis (I'm guessing) cannot do to try and make him feel uncomfortable. I also think he was trying to suck up to the Italian crowd. Neither worked as Lewis just ignored him and the Italians booed him as much as the Brits did in Spa (not that I approve of booing, Nico didn't deserve that today).

For best friends they have pretty frosty body language.

As for the chicane thing, maybe Monaco was an accident after all..... :)
 
fuzzyedges said:
Yes it was nice of Nico to chat to the merc guy and then Massa in italian and then chat to Lewis oh on second thoughts he didnt did he But they are the best of friends
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In the little room after the race, Rosberg was chatting to Massa, but Hamilton had his back turned away from Rosberg the entire time. Very difficult to have a conversation with someone's back.
Lewis on the other hand drove a brilliant race, and pressured Rosberg into making a mistake. It would be interesting to have Hamilton and Ricciardo on the same team, because Ricciardo seems to have the same "racer" qualities as Hamilton.
 
andy700 said:
In the little room after the race, Rosberg was chatting to Massa, but Hamilton had his back turned away from Rosberg the entire time. Very difficult to have a conversation with someone's back.
Lewis on the other hand drove a brilliant race, and pressured Rosberg into making a mistake. It would be interesting to have Hamilton and Ricciardo on the same team, because Ricciardo seems to have the same "racer" qualities as Hamilton.
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Agreed...
Bottas also showed that he can race yesterday, in fact there was a lot of tight wheel-to-wheel racing through the field. I thought Magnussen was unlucky to be penalised.
 
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