£1,000 per day 1-to-1 tuition

When I saw your comments my immediate thought was about price pointing.

Go to John Lewis and you'll see all the big TV manufacturers - Sony, Samsung, LG, Panasonic - have these monster 78" ultra-everything machines for £4000+. (In some cases, £4000+++!) How many do they sell? Very few. But it makes you feel a lot better about paying, say, £1000+ for a TV....

Not the same. TV is a product while photographer charging is a service!
 
Nikon owners raptor workshop is £250 per day, 10 participants.
Even based on this I think £1250 per day for 1 to 1 is high.
 
Nikon owners raptor workshop is £250 per day, 10 participants.
Even based on this I think £1250 per day for 1 to 1 is high.
Just based on 'what you're interested in' I'd imagine.

The difference between what you'll learn and experience is a million miles apart.

We can go out tomorrow and shoot birds for virtually free, to shoot a high end model with a MUA, stylist and costumes, in a high class venue will cost a fortune before we've even picked up a camera.
 
Just based on 'what you're interested in' I'd imagine.

The difference between what you'll learn and experience is a million miles apart.

We can go out tomorrow and shoot birds for virtually free, to shoot a high end model with a MUA, stylist and costumes, in a high class venue will cost a fortune before we've even picked up a camera.

Probably not I would have thought.

As an example a photographer local to me runs wedding workshops that cost around £700. The venue they get for free as they provide them with images for there website from the training. They exchange images for use of wedding gown etc. with a local bridal shop. They get the models by asking on Facebook for tfp and on purpleport etc.
The MUA and hairstylists are also usually tfp but even then there are plenty around who will do both on a training day for around £100. Not to shabby really there are usually around 15-20 people on the workshop and maybe only £100 costs.
 
Probably not I would have thought.

As an example a photographer local to me runs wedding workshops that cost around £700. The venue they get for free as they provide them with images for there website from the training. They exchange images for use of wedding gown etc. with a local bridal shop. They get the models by asking on Facebook for tfp and on purpleport etc.
The MUA and hairstylists are also usually tfp but even then there are plenty around who will do both on a training day for around £100. Not to shabby really there are usually around 15-20 people on the workshop and maybe only £100 costs.
But that doesn't describe one of Lovegroves events, so I'm not sure of the relevance.

We're not talking about a few local suppliers with a mutual TFP agreement, we're talking about a professional hiring other professionals.
 
But that doesn't describe one of Lovegroves events, so I'm not sure of the relevance.

We're not talking about a few local suppliers with a mutual TFP agreement, we're talking about a professional hiring other professionals.

Like I said above how do you know he is hiring anyone? Have you ever attended training with him ? I have.
 
Like I said above how do you know he is hiring anyone? Have you ever attended training with him ? I have.
So as you seem to know, why don't you enlighten us instead of giving alternative examples?

BTW I have 'attended' too ;)
 
So as you seem to know, why don't you enlighten us instead of giving alternative examples?

BTW I have 'attended' too ;)

I never said I knew anything about his business model other than attending one of his workshops but neither do you, but you are happy to try and state your opinion as fact when it isn't.
 
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I never said I knew anything about his business model other than attending one of his workshops but neither do you, but you are happy to try and state your opinion as fact when it isn't.
I have seen what a TFP shoot looks like and seen what a shoot with paid models and stylists looks like, I'm happy to assume that Damien's 1-1 workshops are the latter, you implied there was a correlation between them and your local guy doing TFP deals.

I can't prove any of it as facts, but I've seen him work and see his results, I'm happy to assume he's arranging paid professionals.
 
His website is quite upfront:-
What’s not included
Model, Make-up-artists, venue costs and Damien’s travel expenses are an additional cost.

I often see him on shoots around Bristol's Waterfront.
 
I have seen what a TFP shoot looks like and seen what a shoot with paid models and stylists looks like, I'm happy to assume that Damien's 1-1 workshops are the latter, you implied there was a correlation between them and your local guy doing TFP deals.

I can't prove any of it as facts, but I've seen him work and see his results, I'm happy to assume he's arranging paid professionals.

A couple of years ago, I had dinner with Damien and a mutual friend. One thing he was emphatic about was paying his team. His view was that 'TF' is a nonsense and that everybody on the team gets paid, even someone who one may perceive as a 'muse'. He also said that when he moved to his '1 to 1' strategy (as opposed to marketing group sessions) he had substantial numbers booked.
 
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I know one portrait photographer who charged around £1.1k a day for consultancy. Personally I thought that price was pretty reasonable to be able to pick the brains of someone who has a wealth of knowledge and a proven track record on a 1-1 basis. That information has a considerable value to it. Indeed, it is feasible that the trainee can get that money back in one or two viewings. To me that is a good investment..
 
I think the real issue here is not the quality of the course and instruction but rather how much information one can realistically assimilate in just 8x hours.
Thats a completley ridiculous charge for 1x days photography course unless it includes a 2x week Mediterranean cruise.

I think the biggest mistake that most amateur photographers consistently make is to believe that having better equipment and instruction will improve their images.
 
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Have you looked for a local camera club sure you will get loads of advice and criticisim for a couple of quid a week
 
It will/should.

a poorly conposed image will remain a poorly conposed image no matter if its taken by a point and shoot or a £5,000 camera .
You either have an eye for composition or you do not.
In my opinion most of the images that I see on the net show little comprehension of good composition . Most folk seem to be under the illusion that a good picture is all about achieving the best image quality and resolution.

@taffy
Its my opinion and I should be free to give it without inviting personal attack or critism Taffy
 
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a poorly conposed image will remain a poorly conposed image no matter if its taken by a point and shoot or a £5,000 camera .
You either have an eye for composition or you do not.
In my opinion most of the images that I see on the net show little comprehension of good composition . Most folk seem to be under the illusion that a good picture is all about achieving the best image quality and resolution.

Any old kit and no knowledge will just leave everything to chance, whereas good instruction will enable the photographer to learn the how and why of good photographic technique. For example a workshop or 1-2-1 on landscape photography will help any reasonably intelligent person with adequate kit to learn what to look for to enable them to improve the composition of their landscape images.
 
a poorly conposed image will remain a poorly conposed image no matter if its taken by a point and shoot or a £5,000 camera .
You either have an eye for composition or you do not.
In my opinion most of the images that I see on the net show little comprehension of good composition . Most folk seem to be under the illusion that a good picture is all about achieving the best image quality and resolution.

@taffy
Its my opinion and I should be free to give it without inviting personal attack or critism Taffy

I agree and disagree.

A good picture is, in my opinion, one that holds my attention and makes me think. If it's technically good as well, all the better. The camera it's taken in is irrelevant to my enjoyment of the image.

However, with enough practice (and either education or self directed learning) you can develop an eye for composition, in the same way you can develop your own style. That's my opinion based on my experience.

In terms of workshops, one of the biggest steps forward I made in my Monochrome work was to take a workshop with a well respected practitioner three years ago. This radically changed my approach and led to much greater things. I didn't pay as much as I would have done to Mr Lovegrove (not that it matters as I'm not a portrait/wedding photographer), but it was worth every penny.
 
I think the biggest mistake that most amateur photographers consistently make is to believe that having better equipment and instruction will improve their images.

That's why I still use a KODAK INSTANTAMIC and never listen to any advice from pros or experts.
 
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People saying it's a rip off are the same ones charging anywhere from £1k-£2,500 a day for a wedding :thinking:

I'm an idiot with a camera whose day rate is £1,250 for event work... Damien Lovegrove is brilliant at what he does with decades of experience and by all accounts, a fantastic teacher.
 
Turning up is not what you are getting for your money. You are getting a wealth of knowledge, experience and quality training - if you cant see that, then the course is not for you :/
 
People saying it's a rip off are the same ones charging anywhere from £1k-£2,500 a day for a wedding :thinking:
.

Look again, most people charging (anything at all) are saying there's no story.

As usual it's mostly the people with no grasp of the economics of photography who think it's nuts ;)
 
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People saying it's a rip off are the same ones charging anywhere from £1k-£2,500 a day for a wedding :thinking:

.

Not the same! For £25,00K you get pictures for yourm own wedding while Damien's service, just for your knowledge whether you will know it or not and you won't 'see' it again until next time
 
Not the same! For £25,00K you get pictures for yourm own wedding while Damien's service, just for your knowledge whether you will know it or not and you won't 'see' it again until next time

I have no idea what this means.
 
Not the same! For £25,00K you get pictures for yourm own wedding while Damien's service, just for your knowledge whether you will know it or not and you won't 'see' it again until next time
For a top-end photographer like Damien to impart his knowledge should be up to him in regards the value he places on that information. It is then up to the market to decide if it's worth paying for or not. Such knowledge could lead to some obtaining a very good ROI if they use it well.
I went on one wedding course and remember very little now, although at the time found it beneficial. It wasn't cheap and yet just one or two things I'd struggled with became so much clearer and in doing so took my photography forward by leaps and bounds. I'd already read books, watched DVD's but just a day with someone experienced and being able to ask questions made the difference. What would I place on that knowledge now - very little probably as I "get it" today. If I could go back in time and decide how much it was worth to me there and then I'd probably pay more than I did.
To my mind if people see value in paying that much that is up to them and if not, they can then discuss it with Damien afterwards. There are plenty of others who will charge less and provide less. The same as in any other aspect of life.
 
£1000 I think is a realistic price for one2one.

However it would depend on your entry level to say if it's "worth while" at this current time.

Start off on beginner courses at local studios, I am sure you'll find a basic entry from around £175, then take it step by step.

But I echo the above, you get what you pay for.
 
If you all think it is a good price, so then why don't you do the same!!!

Your post could be asking 1 of 2 questions.

So,
Question 1) - why don't you pay £1000 for one2one?

I personally don't, my training has been done and I understand my camera & lighting completely.

Although I still love finding new tips and ideas.

Question 2) - why don't you teach a one2one for £1000

Any kind of teacher needs to having that "special something" to keep your pupil interested.
don't feel I have that, also i don't have the time as running a busy full time photography business means I already need an extra day in the week.
 
If you all think it is a good price, so then why don't you do the same!!!
If this means why don't I charge £1k for training:

The same reason I don't charge £100 a head for dinner at mine.

Or £500 a day as a chauffeur.

I'm happy to charge £1k for a day's photography, but I'm not as good a teacher.

Whilst I'm ok at driving, cooking and teaching people to take pictures, I can't justify top dollar for those services without investing heavily in skills and infrastructure (better car, better dining room, better teaching facilities)
 
If this means why don't I charge £1k for training:

The same reason I don't charge £100 a head for dinner at mine.

Or £500 a day as a chauffeur.

I'm happy to charge £1k for a day's photography, but I'm not as good a teacher.

Whilst I'm ok at driving, cooking and teaching people to take pictures, I can't justify top dollar for those services without investing heavily in skills and infrastructure (better car, better dining room, better teaching facilities)

How honest!, Being good at your job doesn't automatically make you a good teacher.
 
How honest!, Being good at your job doesn't automatically make you a good teacher.
I know...

I also 'train' people for a living.

I reckon I could handle a night school class - even a day's group shoot, but the organisation of it all doesn't really appeal, and I definitely wouldn't think I have enough 'special' knowledge for £1k a day.
 
I think the main point is that Damien IS a good teacher I have watched many of his youtube videos and they make sense, which is always a good sign for a teacher. can/should you be able to afford him is your choice.comments about good composition are very valid but a good teacher will pick up on that very quickly and help with that as well, with you barely knowing you are being trained. I can't afford him but wish I could. (did i mention I'm an amateur who does not earn a living from photography) oh and I used to teach music for a living.
 
Crazy price. But if there are people stupid enough to pay it.... somehow I doubt there'll be many taking up the offer
 
I think the main point is that Damien IS a good teacher I have watched many of his youtube videos and they make sense, which is always a good sign for a teacher. can/should you be able to afford him is your choice.comments about good composition are very valid but a good teacher will pick up on that very quickly and help with that as well, with you barely knowing you are being trained. I can't afford him but wish I could. (did i mention I'm an amateur who does not earn a living from photography) oh and I used to teach music for a living.

STILL it doesn't guarantee you to become a great photographer and be able to make a good living.
 
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