1.6 Crop & Full Frame comparison

Grendel

Grendel

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I've just bought myself a 5D which has a full frame sensor to compliment my 30D which has a 1.6 crop factor sensor. As an experiment I though it would be interesting to make a direct comparison between the two sensors.

These shots are just randoms taken from a quick walk about. For each of them I stood in exactly the same place and just swapped the lens between bodies. Only very minor tweeks in PS.

The lens was a 24-105L

so.........

24mm on the 5D

tree-5D.jpg



24mm on the 30D

tree-30D.jpg



50mm on the 5D

Playground-5D.jpg



50mm on the 30D

Playground-30D.jpg



105mm on the 5D

door-5D.jpg



105mm on the 30D

door-30D.jpg
 
Interesting stuff Grendel TFS (y)
 
Good to see the BIG difference Paul..:)
 
I wonder how different the bokeh looks like if you took the same images, i.e. take the same photo but use the equivalent length on the 30d. So take one at 105mm on the 5d and 65mm on the 30d so that the image is framed the same, or move the 30d back rather than changing focal length?

The 5d will show more bokeh with the longer focal length if changing focal length on the 30d, or the 30d will show more bokeh (bigger equivalent focal length) if moving it back (although dof increases with distance to subject)?
 
Meh, 30D guy just take a few steps back ;) It is quite a difference though, and I'm guessing that viewfinder is mighty shiny.
 
Yeah I was wondering about the bokeh though, all that talk about subject isolation in those full frame camera press releases, was just wondering if it referred to that.
 
Have you noticed how the dynamic range is better on the 5D? Always less areas lost to solid black or white with 5D shots compared to the 20D.
 
Thanks for taking the time to do these comparison shots and to share your results with us.

The difference is quite profound.
 
zeroeseight said:
I wonder how different the bokeh looks like if you took the same images, i.e. take the same photo but use the equivalent length on the 30d. So take one at 105mm on the 5d and 65mm on the 30d so that the image is framed the same, or move the 30d back rather than changing focal length?

The 5d will show more bokeh with the longer focal length if changing focal length on the 30d, or the 30d will show more bokeh (bigger equivalent focal length) if moving it back (although dof increases with distance to subject)?
Click to expand...

hmmm interesting thought :thinking: I'm going out and about next weekend with the 2 cameras for some real photog rather than just these testers so I'll do that experiement. I'm interested in the findings too ;)
 
petemc said:
Meh, 30D guy just take a few steps back ;) It is quite a difference though, and I'm guessing that viewfinder is mighty shiny.
Click to expand...

It is Pete :D It's a lovely clear bright scene through the viewfinder :love:

Oh and the sound that shutter makes :love: or did I already mention that lol :LOL: :thinking:
 
RobertP said:
Have you noticed how the dynamic range is better on the 5D? Always less areas lost to solid black or white with 5D shots compared to the 20D.
Click to expand...

TBH Robert, not yet. But then I haven't really used her in anger yet. I'm looking forward to finding out though (y)
 
busterboy said:
Good to see the BIG difference Paul..:)
Click to expand...

The difference has really surprised me tbh. I didn't expect it to be as pronounced as it is
 
It seems a bit strange to me.... it is only beneficial with focal lengths UNDER 50mm. Under 50mm(wide) you are using that focal length to get a wide shot and the 5d makes it wider than the 30d.. which is fine.

But when you are using longer lengths, you are obviously after the length and the zoom, and the 5d doesnt deliver the same zoom and the 30d shots look better.

Im obviously missing something :shrug: All your longer length lenses will be doing less for you after buying a 5D?
 
Janice said:
All your longer length lenses will be doing less for you after buying a 5D?
Click to expand...

They will be doing exactly what they were designed to do, work on a 35mm frame size.

Its only lens's designed for crop sensors that are diffrent.
 
That's an interesting comparison (y)
I never imagined there was such a great difference either !
 
the other thing that would be useful/amusing if you have the time
is to blow up the 5D and crop to the same size as the 30D and then compare the quality
you'd like to think the 5D would still win, but given they both have the same sensor pixel count, the 30D should be better, I think :thinking:
 
mho said:
They will be doing exactly what they were designed to do, work on a 35mm frame size.
Click to expand...

So in other words, we are greatly benefitting with our 30d as far as our telephoto zooms go. Id be a bit miffed to buy a 5d then find I had to buy miles longer lenses just to reach the same distance as I am getting now. :(
 
Bear in mind Janice that putting (say) a 100mm lens on a 30D (1.6 crop) doesn't give you more reach, you are just using less of the lens therefore effectivly doing your cropping by the lens rather that in Photoshop.

If you take the same shot of the same Robin (for example) from the same place with a 5D and a 30D the size of the Robin in the frame won't change, you'll just get extra scenery around the Robin with the 5D because the sensor is bigger and it uses all of the lens, not just the centre area that the 1.6 crop sensor uses.
 
Grendel said:
If you take the same shot of the same Robin (for example) from the same place with a 5D and a 30D the size of the Robin in the frame won't change, you'll just get extra scenery around the Robin with the 5D because the sensor is bigger and it uses all of the lens, not just the centre area that the 1.6 crop sensor uses.
Click to expand...
This is a very clear explanation of a situation which many people don't appreciate properly. I hear so many people saying things like "well, on a 30D a 200 is really a 320" but Grendel has nailed it perfectly.
 
If I understand sensor & zoom lenses properly, I think the actual focal length from the lens is the same but you don't see the 'full' picture using the crop sensor and so you have the illusion of a longer reach. I would expect that if you cropped a 'ful frame' image to the same size as the 1.6 sensor image then the quality and appearance would be near identical. Does that sound right ?
 
Whoops, Grendel beat me ! :LOL:

Note to self: Do not leave PC to make a coffee half through making a post ! :LOL::LOL:
 
It would be interested to try the idea that you and mmcp42 mentioned of cropping a ff image to the same size as a 1.6 sensor and seeing the difference in quality, if any. I might give it a go at the weekend if I get a chance ;)
 
Only just seen this. Good post! Definitely do the crop comparison test. (y)
 
I understand now, well done with your explanations, Paul & co. (y)
 
Great explanations, I only really began to understand this crop factor last week properly.
 
Just remember the focal length of a lens is, historically, the distance from the shutter / eye / film plane to the 'flat' lens. for example, a 600mm lens would be the distance from the end lens element to the sensor plane. This explanation is a little out of date as lens technology has evolved considerably BUT, its a useful tool to keep in mind for the crop sensor debate - the distance does not increase from the sensor to the lens :)
 
I didn't realise the difference would be that much, just goes to show why we need very wide lenses for landscape shots on 1.6crops.

Also interesting to note the vignetting on the first image from the 5D.
 
Personally I think its a case of matching lenses to bodies. Whilst a 24-105 will show a smaller field of view on a 1.6 gcrop body this can simply be overcome by replacing the lens with say a 10-22 and get roughly the same field of view. Obviously this would work out expensive if you own both cropped and full frame bodies but personally I've made a concious decision to now stick with 1.6 crop, buy an ef-s specific ultra wide lens and enjoy the extra length (figuratively speaking) that I can get out of my 70-200 F2.8.

I'm happy to live with the drop off in MP's as I'm only looking to print up to about 10x8 and even if I need to crop my shots starting at 8mp's means the quality should be OK.
 
Grendel, Thanks for compariing the 1.6 Crop and Full Frame .You have cleared up some of my issues.Now do I Bye a Canon 10-22 and 40D or get a 5D??????????????
 
Grendel said:
Bear in mind Janice that putting (say) a 100mm lens on a 30D (1.6 crop) doesn't give you more reach, you are just using less of the lens therefore effectivly doing your cropping by the lens rather that in Photoshop.

If you take the same shot of the same Robin (for example) from the same place with a 5D and a 30D the size of the Robin in the frame won't change, you'll just get extra scenery around the Robin with the 5D because the sensor is bigger and it uses all of the lens, not just the centre area that the 1.6 crop sensor uses.
Click to expand...


But say you have a 10 mp full sized sensor and a 1.6 crop 10 mp sensor and use a 100 mm lens taking a photo of said Robin. The robin in the full sized sensor will be small and less pixels will be dedicated to the robin where as in the crop sensor more pixels will be dedicated to the robin as less "scenery" will be in the pic and so the robin wil be bigger.
 
Grendel said:
Bear in mind Janice that putting (say) a 100mm lens on a 30D (1.6 crop) doesn't give you more reach, you are just using less of the lens therefore effectivly doing your cropping by the lens rather that in Photoshop.
Click to expand...

That's a bit misleading, if you crop by PS you're losing pixels from the sensor, with a "lens crop" you've still got all your expensive pixels to play with :)
 
Grendel said:
Bear in mind Janice that putting (say) a 100mm lens on a 30D (1.6 crop) doesn't give you more reach, you are just using less of the lens therefore effectivly doing your cropping by the lens rather that in Photoshop.

If you take the same shot of the same Robin (for example) from the same place with a 5D and a 30D the size of the Robin in the frame won't change, you'll just get extra scenery around the Robin with the 5D because the sensor is bigger and it uses all of the lens, not just the centre area that the 1.6 crop sensor uses.
Click to expand...

Isn't it true that lenses are at their sharpest in the centre, so the fact that you may be avoiding the edges could be a good thing, especially with cheaper lenses.
 
mrgubby said:
That's a bit misleading, if you crop by PS you're losing pixels from the sensor, with a "lens crop" you've still got all your expensive pixels to play with :)
Click to expand...

And I'll have to agree with Grendel :) The lens does not change focal length so it is still 100mm on a crop camera. Because you display the crop sensor image at the same size on screen as a full frame the crop picture has more bird in the picture.
Detail level in that bird is down to pixel density on the sensor - and as the crop sensors are higher density then you will get better detail, but not because the lens behaves differently.

None of which matters to me as I like looking through the 5D viewfinder at full frame and still love the images it makes..... though I might consider a 5D mk2 if it happens :)
 
Very pleasant sounding - but a bugger if you are trying to take candid pics close up :)
 
SeanBoyce said:
Grendel, Thanks for compariing the 1.6 Crop and Full Frame .You have cleared up some of my issues.Now do I Bye a Canon 10-22 and 40D or get a 5D??????????????
Click to expand...

For wide angle, if you can afford it, I'd go for the 5D and a 17-40 over the 40D / 10-22 combo every time (y)
 
Grendel and RobertP I finally did it. I took both of your advices and ordered that 5D.It took me close to a year, but its done.I have a canon 24-70 and 16-35 so i don't have to bye wide angle Thanks Sean.........................
 
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