5D mkIII AF no good for running dogs?! Am I doing something wrong?

[LongLensPhotography]

Dogs was just a little extra on top of my regular job and I should have 1 or 2 keepers one of them where they are just sitting. The majority - complete out of focus trash.
The 5D did an OK job with a pig which is considerably slower, but faster than you would imagine.
The setup was 70-200mm f/4L IS lens at 200mm, AI-servo tracking with generic AF settings (did change to one of the bottom modes, with slight but insufficient improvement), and perfect lighting conditions. The owner would throw a ball towards me and I would get a few shots of the dog sprinting.

A few frames are in focus but majority considerably backfocused.

This would have been the best shot and its just an instant delete now. I deliberately didn't crop to show the magnification. Exposure was pretty much as shown.

I may be doing more and more of this so I'd like to get past this issue. Is 5DIII capable of > 50 % success rate? From memory the old 1DsII without any complicated AF menus worked a whole lot better. I would be interesting to be buying another and lugging it around for dogs. Same goes for 7D / II. Of course I may just accidentally get a mkIV, but thats not a given now.

And out of interest how would Sony A7RIII cope with this with my lens adapted and the Sony equivalent?

 

[DemiLion]

I've shot horses and dogs with a 5DIII, it should be fine - even more as the animal is running across you and not directly head-on.

 

[nandbytes]

I'd love to tell you how my A7RIII is awesome etc, but tbh I don't think 5D3 is bad. In fact 5D3 is rather good and reliable. I don't mean to be rude but I don't think the camera is the issue but rather the technique or lack of lens calibration (one area where mirrorless would indeed help).

I was recently out shooting puffins with someone using D500 and he didn't get many keepers and he was surprised I did better. I told him the same thing, D500 is better at focussing, he just didn't know how to use it well in certain scenarios.

Since you specifically asked about sony.... Here someone approaching me, shot with A7RII (III is better) + 85mm f1.8
Approach

Going past me... camera still maintaining focus

moving away from me

More recently couple puffin shots with A7RIII + 100-400mm

A7RIII can handle it but so should your 5D3 and any recent camera tbh. Though being an EVF fanboi I'd suggest getting a mirrorless body instead of a 5D4 if you do want to upgrade. Adapters are fun but fiddly and will get tiresome very quickly.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I've shot horses and dogs with a 5DIII, it should be fine - even more as the animal is running across you and not directly head-on.

It's great to hear the 5D could do it. What AF settings should I try please?

Diagonal movement across the frame would be certainly worth a go.

I'd love to tell you how my A7RIII is awesome etc, but tbh I don't think 5D3 is bad. In fact 5D3 is rather good and reliable. I don't mean to be rude but I don't think the camera is the issue but rather the technique or lack of lens calibration (one area where mirrorless would indeed help).

I was recently out shooting puffins with someone using D500 and he didn't get many keepers and he was surprised I did better. I told him the same thing, D500 is better at focussing, he just didn't know how to use it well in certain scenarios.

Since you specifically asked about sony.... Here someone approaching me, shot with A7RII (III is better) + 85mm f1.8
Approach

Going past me... camera still maintaining focus

moving away from me

More recently couple puffin shots with A7RIII + 100-400mm

A7RIII can handle it but so should your 5D3 and any recent camera tbh. Though being an EVF fanboi I'd suggest getting a mirrorless body instead of a 5D4 if you do want to upgrade. Adapters are fun but fiddly and will get tiresome very quickly.

Don't get me wrong, the canon has served me exceptionally well with still and semi-still subjects. Those puffin shots from Sony look well executed and my feeling is I would be finishing for those all day to get a few keepers. I know just how fast and erratic they can be.

My kit locks on still subjects with great precision. I just have trouble with fast moving things. And the previous bodies just worked out of the box. Not perfect, but way better, and with the same glass.

Regarding my short term upgrade path the cost and / or special deals may just be the deciding factor. It is very important I retain the use of my glass with adapters if necessary to avoid an immediate bill of around £20k.
There is probably no cost effective replacement of 400mm f/5.6L which only gets moderately little use.

 

[DemiLion]

Tbh I hardly ever take it off Case 1

 

[nandbytes]

Don't get me wrong, the canon has served me exceptionally well with still and semi-still subjects. Those puffin shots from Sony look well executed and my feeling is I would be finishing for those all day to get a few keepers. I know just how fast and erratic they can be.

My kit locks on still subjects with great precision. I just have trouble with fast moving things. And the previous bodies just worked out of the box. Not perfect, but way better, and with the same glass.

Regarding my short term upgrade path the cost and / or special deals may just be the deciding factor. It is very important I retain the use of my glass with adapters if necessary to avoid an immediate bill of around £20k.
There is probably no cost effective replacement of 400mm f/5.6L which only gets moderately little use.

Still or semi-still subjects are easy (from AF perspective).

You can retain functionality of most of your glass with adapters but they just won't be as good as if you used them on a 5D4 for tracking (with exception of 85mm/1.2 which actually is better on Sony).
But the effectiveness of adapters are very lens dependant.

What lenses do you use? Are you open to using 3rd party lenses and buying used?

 

[Bebop]

I've shot running dogs with my 5D III and I can't remember having problems. Here are a couple with the dog running at me. I'd have to delve into my old drives to find the original but these were at 1/1250s f/6.3 ISO 320 at 200mm on my 70-200 II f/2.8 lens.

I suspect it would have been on focus case 1. Some of the cases are only good if you have chosen a multi point focus so it can switch between the points, and I think I would have been on single point for this. Did you use single point?

I believe a 2.8 lens will let more light in so it will focus faster than an f/4 lens.

I use back button focusing.

Before you delete any, try a trial of Topaz Sharpen AI. I've been astounded at how it can help bring some photos into focus - doesn't work for everything but for birds it does, so it may work for animals too.




Just to add, I would have shot in burst mode, and in my experience of shooting football, a fresh battery can speed up the frame rate - so possibly may also affect speed of focus.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I've shot running dogs with my 5D III and I can't remember having problems. Here are a couple with the dog running at me. I'd have to delve into my old drives to find the original but these were at 1/1250s f/6.3 ISO 320 at 200mm on my 70-200 II f/2.8 lens.

I suspect it would have been on focus case 1. Some of the cases are only good if you have chosen a multi point focus so it can switch between the points, and I think I would have been on single point for this. Did you use single point?

I believe a 2.8 lens will let more light in so it will focus faster than an f/4 lens.

I use back button focusing.

Before you delete any, try a trial of Topaz Sharpen AI. I've been astounded at how it can help bring some photos into focus - doesn't work for everything but for birds it does, so it may work for animals too.


View attachment 246697View attachment 246700

Just to add, I would have shot in burst mode, and in my experience of shooting football, a fresh battery can speed up the frame rate - so possibly may also affect speed of focus.

I started with case 1 which was just OK for the pig earlier in the day (60-70% hit rate). 1-point was no good as the dogs were just a bit too random Maybe 2 of them was far too much to handle all at once. Multi point was a bit better, but not by much. At the end I switched to Accel / deccel mode. That was a clear improvement but still not enough. By then the dogs have had too much of it. It wasn't the main point of the day so I'm still OK in the grand scheme of things, but I'm not very confident going ahead with pet-only jobs.

It was a reasonably sunny afternoon with plenty of contrast. I know 2.8 has certain advantages, but then its got more glass to move? Maybe this sort of thing is better at 400mm, but I didn't have one with me.

I have another 5DIII which from experience in birds in the fiight demos performs about the same. I could maybe trial the other one out next time.

What lenses do you use? Are you open to using 3rd party lenses and buying used?

The really important ones are 16-35mm f/4 IS, 24-70mm f/2.8 II and 70-200mm f/4 IS. There is also 100mm macro L, 400mm f/5.6L and Sigma 35mm. The latter three see less daylight.

 

[nandbytes]

The really important ones are 16-35mm f/4 IS, 24-70mm f/2.8 II and 70-200mm f/4 IS. There is also 100mm macro L, 400mm f/5.6L and Sigma 35mm. The latter three see less daylight.

Pretty easy to replace those without too much loss if you are willing to buy used.

There is no proper replacement for 400mm f5.6. you'd have to buy a 100-400 which is the most expensive of the bunch. But if you could replace 70-200mm and 400mm with one lens unless you really need that f4 or 70mm.

I don't know how much you like your fast aperture, in the end I decided f2.8 was unnecessary for landscapes+travel and went with a 24-105mm f4 which reviewed very well across the focal range and lot cheaper than f2.8 zoom. If I really need the speed I have f1.4 primes.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Well that's the good ones after moderate crop. They are both slowing down for the ball here and focus catches up. Previous frames were backfocused. Personally they are not the best poses for the breed compared with the one above.

I could and probably should have limited my work to this one to be honest.

Pretty easy to replace those without too much loss if you are willing to buy used.

There is no proper replacement for 400mm f5.6. you'd have to buy a 100-400 which is the most expensive of the bunch. But if you could replace 70-200mm and 400mm with one lens unless you really need that f4 or 70mm.

I don't know how much you like your fast aperture, in the end I decided f2.8 was unnecessary for landscapes+travel and went with a 24-105mm f4 which reviewed very well across the focal range and lot cheaper than f2.8 zoom. If I really need the speed I have f1.4 primes.

I don't normally need 2.8 but there are certainly times when I do ranging from events to closeups.
70-200 f/4 is already a compromise. It should be ideally a 2.8 when its used at events or for portraits. 100mm macro is the only reason it survived in my kit bag for this long.