7d, landscapes and portraits taboo

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joescrivens

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So I was wondering why so many people bash the 7d when it comes to portraits and landscapes over the 5d.

Now I understand why the 5d is a better tool for portraits and landscapes given the full frame, larger sensor and higher dynamic range.

But is the 7d worse at taking portraits and landscapes than the 20d, 30d, 40d, 50d, 350d, 400d 450d etc?

you rarely see someone saying that these cameras aren't cut out for taking portrait and landscapes but you often hear it about the 7d and I wondered why that is.

Is it because the 7d is comparable in some ways to the 5d whereas the others aren't? I guess I'm just wondering is there something missing from the 7d that is found in all the lower models that makes it worse for taking portrait and landscapes then they are? and if the answer is no then why don't we mention that the 5d is better for this type of photography than all the other models too?

curious
 
Hi Joe,

That's an interesting set of questions... Difficult to answer dispassionately as well 'cos I've got one! :)

In some ways, I think Canon made a mistake by sticking 18 megapixels on the 7D. Personally, I'd have been happier with 12mp with Canon placing more emphasis on low light performance in the same way that Nikon have. Let's face it, there's not many occasions when you're going to print massively.

I also think that having 18mp means you have to be more careful about your exposures. I've had some absolutely impeccable portrait and landscape shots with mine but if you screw things up - especially if you underexpose, the noise becomes noticeable over the likes of the 5D (and 5DMKII).

It's a very versatile camera when all's said and done and I'm more than happy with mine. Could I have got better performance if I'd bought a different camera? Most definitely but the trade-off would have been cost. At some point in the future, I'll pick up a 5DMKII to complement my 7D but at the moment, I have no complaints.

I put the 7D through its first wedding at the weekend and the results are very impressive... Lots of the shots in the church were taken at ISO3200 and I'm happy with the way they've come out (so are the bride and groom from the ones they've already seen). :)

Si
 
5d has a full frame sensor which is more suited to landscapes and cropped portraits.
7d better at wildlife, sports than the 5d, just different cameras for different jobs.
 
I've got some portraits and landscapes off my 7D that I am very pleased with, as I did off my 10D (the last APS-C camera I owned)

5DII will give you more ultimate resolution but up to A3, I reckon you'd be hard pressed to tell which print came from which camera - assuming the photographer had got the technicalities right
 
joescrivens said:
So I was wondering why so many people bash the 7d when it comes to portraits and landscapes over the 5d.

Now I understand why the 5d is a better tool for portraits and landscapes given the full frame, larger sensor and higher dynamic range.

But is the 7d worse at taking portraits and landscapes than the 20d, 30d, 40d, 50d, 350d, 400d 450d etc?

you rarely see someone saying that these cameras aren't cut out for taking portrait and landscapes but you often hear it about the 7d and I wondered why that is.

Is it because the 7d is comparable in some ways to the 5d whereas the others aren't? I guess I'm just wondering is there something missing from the 7d that is found in all the lower models that makes it worse for taking portrait and landscapes then they are? and if the answer is no then why don't we mention that the 5d is better for this type of photography than all the other models too?

curious
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Well Joe, I think it's kind of an accepted thing that the 5DMkI/MkII are better than any of the xxxD/xxD/7D bodies for portraiture/landscapes simply due to, as you have already pointed out, the 5D range having FF sensors, where as all the others are APS-C. I don't think that the 7D gets bashed any more than the others; it may look that way just because the 7D is far more talked about than any other APS-C at the moment, and is also intended to be a professional-level APS-C (where the others are consumer/prosumer), so is going to be compared to the 5DII directly. Like comparing the 1D to the 1Ds range, these bodies are for different markets, but are on a par status-wise in the Canon range; each is stronger in it's own specialist areas.

1DIV for sports/wildlife, 1DsIII for portraiture/landscapes

7D for sports/wildlife, the 5DII for portraiture/landscapes

Anyway, if you're enjoying using your 7D for portraiture and landscapes, then it doesn't really matter what other people think, does it? :thumbs:
 
grumpybadger said:
Again these "rules" don't always work. I've shot most of my wildlife on 1DsII until recently - and that's FF. I'm not the only one either.
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I wouldn't call them rules; more target markets. Of course there's nothing inherent in the design of an FF that stops you from shooting wildlife, and nothing with an APS-C that stops you from shooting landscapes; just that each sensor size tends to have an area where it excels. I think talk of there being any kind of taboo is a bit dramatic ;)
 
raider2727 said:
5d has a full frame sensor which is more suited to landscapes and cropped portraits.
7d better at wildlife, sports than the 5d, just different cameras for different jobs.
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I said this in my first post, what I was asking was why is the 7d categorized this way but none of the xxd or xxxd are.

the 7d is better than the xxd and xxxd for wildlife and sports but is it any worse than them for portrait and landscapes?
 
Nifkin said:
Well Joe, I think it's kind of an accepted thing that the 5DMkI/MkII are better than any of the xxxD/xxD/7D bodies for portraiture/landscapes simply due to, as you have already pointed out, the 5D range having FF sensors, where as all the others are APS-C. I don't think that the 7D gets bashed any more than the others; it may look that way just because the 7D is far more talked about than any other APS-C at the moment, and is also intended to be a professional-level APS-C (where the others are consumer/prosumer), so is going to be compared to the 5DII directly. Like comparing the 1D to the 1Ds range, these bodies are for different markets, but are on a par status-wise in the Canon range; each is stronger in it's own specialist areas.

1DIV for sports/wildlife, 1DsIII for portraiture/landscapes

7D for sports/wildlife, the 5DII for portraiture/landscapes

Anyway, if you're enjoying using your 7D for portraiture and landscapes, then it doesn't really matter what other people think, does it? :thumbs:
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at least someone understood what I was asking :lol: EDIT - and also grumpybadger for answering it 9 posts from now - I came back from the future to make this change :thumbs:

So you are saying that because it's new and it's a semi pro model thats why it is compared to the 5d and the others (xxd, xxxd) arent even though they are no better for portraits and landscape than the 7d.

no doesn't matter what others think I'm just curious why the comparison only seems to be drawn here and not on others. I want a 5d soon now that it does 24p, that was a strong reason for me getting the 7d at the time
 
There are some features on a 7D that make it better for landscapes than a 5D, the viewfinder grid for example for composition, the electronic 'spirit level' are both excellent aides for landscape shooting, and the ability to change the manual focal point automatically as you tilt the camera from horizontal to vertical can help portrait shooting.

The only downside (for me) is that it's a crop body, therefore a FF is generally suited to landscape photography.
 
Les McLean said:
There are some features on a 7D that make it better for landscapes than a 5D, the viewfinder grid for example for composition, the electronic 'spirit level' are both excellent aides for landscape shooting, and the ability to change the manual focal point automatically as you tilt the camera from horizontal to vertical can help portrait shooting.

The only downside (for me) is that it's a crop body, therefore a FF is generally suited to landscape photography.
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ok, but again, in answer to my question. why is this comparison made with the 5d and 7d and not the 5d and 50d or 40d or 450d etc?
 
joescrivens said:
So you are saying that because it's new and it's a semi pro model thats why it is compared to the 5d and the others (xxd, xxxd) arent even though they are no better for portraits and landscape than the 7d.
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I'm just saying that there may be a trend in the forums over the last 5 months or so for comparing the 5DMkII to the 7D more than any other APS-C, but that's going to happen considering it's the most recently launched and most advanced APS-C body Canon make. If you look back to the end of 2008 you'll find plenty of threads/articles comparing the 50D to the 5DII, and, I'm sure, when they launch the 5DMkIII there'll be threads comparing the 7D to that. To be honest Joe, I think your deduction that the 7D is somehow criticised more for it's portrait/landscape abilities than other APS-C bodies, purely based on what you've read in this forum, doesn't really have legs. No disrespect, but, judging by this and other threads you've started, you do tend to let gear criticism get to you a bit too much! :D
 
Nifkin said:
I'm just saying that there may be a trend in the forums over the last 5 months or so for comparing the 5DMkII to the 7D more than any other APS-C, but that's going to happen considering it's the most recently launched and most advanced APS-C body Canon make. If you look back to the end of 2008 you'll find plenty of threads/articles comparing the 50D to the 5DII, and, I'm sure, when they launch the 5DMkIII there'll be threads comparing the 7D to that. To be honest Joe, I think your deduction that the 7D is somehow criticised more for it's portrait/landscape abilities than other APS-C bodies, purely based on what you've read in this forum, doesn't really have legs. No disrespect, but, judging by this and other threads you've started, you do tend to let gear criticism get to you a bit too much! :D
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Do I?

what other thread have I started about gear criticism?
 
Cant say ive been aware of criticism of the 7D as a landscape camera, with a EF-S 10-22 its quite capable of producing excellent landscape images and with any lens decent portraits. The lenses for portraits will have to be shorter focal length than a full frame camera would need to get the same field of view though. Its noise can be slightly higher due to the fact there are more pixels (hence smaller pixels) on its smaller sensor than a full frame camera would need, so it can if not careful produce more noise on an image. Its purely down to technique to get the exposure correct and then noise is less of an issue.

At the end of the day, if a 7D is what you got, you just need to plan the lenses you have and it will produce an image just as good as a 5d Mk2, unless you are a major pixel peeper or print massive images. For web etc, i doubt you would see any difference at all really.
 
joescrivens said:
why does anyone care about anything?

I'm just curious... is that ok? :suspect:
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Words like "taboo" impy a pretty strong opinion. All I posted (before you said that I had failed to answer your question) was that I don't see it that way and I find, in the right context, a 7D to be a competent landscape and portrait camera.

And I then went on to say that the direct comparison between 5DII and 7D is probably on the basis of price. Very few people would be considering a trade off between a 450D and a 5DII.

I genuinely believe the 7D to be the best APS-C camera made by Canon to-date.
 
IanC_UK said:
Cant say ive been aware of criticism of the 7D as a landscape camera, with a EF-S 10-22 its quite capable of producing excellent landscape images and with any lens decent portraits. The lenses for portraits will have to be shorter focal length than a full frame camera would need to get the same field of view though. Its noise can be slightly higher due to the fact there are more pixels (hence smaller pixels) on its smaller sensor than a full frame camera would need, so it can if not careful produce more noise on an image. Its purely down to technique to get the exposure correct and then noise is less of an issue.

At the end of the day, if a 7D is what you got, you just need to plan the lenses you have and it will produce an image just as good as a 5d Mk2, unless you are a major pixel peeper or print massive images. For web etc, i doubt you would see any difference at all really.
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you haven't? I've seen many many threads which say the 7d is primarily a wildlife and motorsports camera and I do understand why the 5d performs better in landscape and portrait.

This basically comes from me going back and forth with whether to upgrade to a 5d or not. Essentially I bought the 7d because I wanted a camera that took video as well, the 5d was a good £500+ more and it didn't do 24p at the time. I also had my eyes on some ef-s lenses so wasn't looking at full frame. I also didn't fully understand what a full frame camera would do at the time.

All I take is portrait and landscape really so after I became more knowledgeable and read more about the differences I started thinking perhaps I had bought the wrong camera. Now the 5d has had a firmware upgrade to do 24p I'm toying with the idea of upgrading some time in the future.

But then I started thinking about the other models that people use for portrait and landscape (xxd and xxxd series) and I was thinking if the 7d was as good as those for portrait and landscape then perhaps I'm looking too much into it, perhaps it's all the posts I've read that are telling me the 7d isn't what I should be using for portraits and landscapes thats making me want a 5d.

I guess if I upgrade I want it to be for the right reasons.
 
joescrivens said:
Do I?

what other thread have I started about gear criticism?
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Well, one that springs to mind was where you were banging the drum for the Apple iPad rather zealously, even before it had been released; you didn't seem to appreciate any descenting comments on that occasion! :) Maybe you didn't perceive it as such, but I'm sure many would disagree with you! Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate about that; here you just seem to be looking for reassurance that your camera is better than the other APS-C models, simply because you have a heightened awareness of negative comments aimed at the 7D, a camera you happen to own. I think the 7D fares extremely well in reviews and in comments here, and you should take it as a plus that it routinely gets compared to the 5DII, which is essentially meant to be a step above. As was said earlier, why do you care whether the xxxD/xxD lines get dragged into debates comparing FF to crop sensors or not? I don't really see what this thread is trying to prove either way, to be honest (except reasure you that you've made the right purchase).

BTW, if you remember, I was on your side the other day when some Nikonites started having a go at you for bragging about your L-lens; I thought they were being a bit unfair to you :thumbs:
 
grumpybadger said:
Words like "taboo" impy a pretty strong opinion. All I posted (before you said that I had failed to answer your question) was that I don't see it that way and I find, in the right context, a 7D to be a competent landscape and portrait camera.
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Where did I say this to you?

taboo was just something I put in the title on a whim, I don't think the use of a 7d as a portrait and landscape camera has been considered as taboo.

grumpybadger said:
And I then went on to say that the direct comparison between 5DII and 7D is probably on the basis of price. Very few people would be considering a trade off between a 450D and a 5DII.

I genuinely believe the 7D to be the best APS-C camera made by Canon to-date.
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Nifkin said:
Well, one that springs to mind was where you were banging the drum for the Apple iPad rather zealously, even before it had been released; you didn't seem to appreciate any descenting comments on that occasion! :) Maybe you didn't perceive it as such, but I'm sure many would disagree with you! Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate about that; here you just seem to be looking for reassurance that your camera is better than the other APS-C models, simply because you have a heightened awareness of negative comments aimed at the 7D, a camera you happen to own. I think the 7D fares extremely well in reviews and in comments here, and you should take it as a plus that it routinely gets compared to the 5DII, which is essentially meant to be a step above. As was said earlier, why do you care whether the xxxD/xxD lines get dragged into debates comparing FF to crop sensors or not? I don't really see what this thread is trying to prove either way, to be honest (except reasure you that you've made the right purchase).

BTW, if you remember, I was on your side the other day when some Nikonites started having a go at you for bragging about your L-lens; I thought they were being a bit unfair to you :thumbs:
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yeah essentially this is the point of the thread. As said in the post above I take portrait and landscapes and because of the things I have been reading I've been considering if I want a 5d instead and that I bought the wrong camera.

Bringing in the other models is me questioning myself and saying "well the 5d can't be the only camera for portraits and landscapes since other models are used extensively for this, so it's not that the 7d is bad for these types of photography, it's just that the 5d is the best"

so I'm asking if this assumption is right and that there isn't something lacking in the 7d over the other models for these types of photography to help inform my decision if I do need to upgrade or not
 
joescrivens said:
Do I?

what other thread have I started about gear criticism?
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He probably meant the lensbaby thread.

The general problem I find these days is that people seem to think that you can't take a decent photo with anything but a 5D or a 1D(s) (and the other manufacturer equivs.), yet, these are usually the same people who are far too quick to come out with remarks like 'its not the gear its the person behind the camera!!1'

I personally use a 450D for landscapes, interiors, portraits, just about anything except fast paced action and I'm pretty sure my images look fine. If I had a 5D or a 1D(s) I probably couldn't do any better.
 
joescrivens said:
Where did I say this to you?
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Here...
joescrivens said:
at least someone understood what I was asking :lol:
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joescrivens said:
taboo was just something I put in the title on a whim, I don't think the use of a 7d as a portrait and landscape camera has been considered as taboo.
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Yes but it was the word you used and hence the wording I responded to.

If video is important to you, I still think the user interface for it is better on the 7D than anything else. If that isn't as important as ultimate image quality on portraits and landscapes (and you intend to produce A2 prints and not just look at images on screen) then get the 5DII.

But, there are a lot of people going on about ultimate image quality when they only produce 1000px images for digital use. As I said earlier - I'd challenge anyone to identify the camera used on that size of file so you have to ask how much quality is enough.

That was the rationale for me getting a 7D rather than a 5DII.

Other things - is the inbuilt flashgun important to you? Is the remote flash contol important?

A camera is actually about more than ultimate image quality, which is why in the film days there were several cameras available...
 
joescrivens said:
so I'm asking if this assumption is right and that there isn't something lacking in the 7d over the other models for these types of photography to help inform my decision if I do need to upgrade or not
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grumpybadger said:
I genuinely believe the 7D to be the best APS-C camera made by Canon to-date.
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joescrivens said:
so I'm asking if this assumption is right and that there isn't something lacking in the 7d over the other models for these types of photography to help inform my decision if I do need to upgrade or not
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Joe, I think it's been pretty much conclusive for some time, as a result of reviews and real-world usage, that there certainly isn't anything the 7D lacks that the other Canon APS-C cameras have.
 
trencheel303 said:
He probably meant the lensbaby thread.
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No; I meant the iPad thread :p

Anyway Joe, there's nowt wrong with thinking about the pros and cons of the 7D when compared to the 5DII, but what they have to do with the 50D, 40D, 450D, 500D etc I don't know; I mean, even if we confirm that the 7D is 100 times better than all those other crop sensor bodies put together, is that really going to stop you from hankering after a 5DII??? :thinking: :eek:
 
Nifkin said:
No; I meant the iPad thread :p

Anyway Joe, there's nowt wrong with thinking about the pros and cons of the 7D when compared to the 5DII, but what that has to do with the 50D, 40D, 450D, 500D etc I don't know :eek:
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the thing it has to do with them is that I keep reading the 7d being compared to 5d for portrait and landscape and people saying it's for wildlife and motorsport but I don't read the same about the other models.

perhaps I'm not explaining this very well. It's to do with the fact that the impression I have been given is that I should only own a 7d if I take motorsport and wildlife but the other models (xxd and xxxd) don't seem to have a genre attached to them. So I'm just checking that the interpretation I have taken is a wrong one.
 
Yes and you thanked him for answering the question and therefore implied no-one else had. Is it so difficult? And now you refuse to acknowledge my repeated answer to your specific question.

I'm out...
 
joescrivens said:
the thing it has to do with them is that I keep reading the 7d being compared to 5d for portrait and landscape and people saying it's for wildlife and motorsport but I don't read the same about the other models.

perhaps I'm not explaining this very well. It's to do with the fact that the impression I have been given is that I should only own a 7d if I take motorsport and wildlife but the other models (xxd and xxxd) don't seem to have a genre attached to them. So I'm just checking that the interpretation I have taken is a wrong one.
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JOE! STOP CARING SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT YOU READ IN THE FORUMS!!!! So what if other people, when making a choice between the 7D and the 5DII, decide that the 7D is a good choice for sport and wildlife???! It doesn't mean it can't do everything else! What is YOUR opinion of the camera's performance? You own one! Why do you have to get your impressions of your own camera validated by others?
 
grumpybadger said:
Yes and you thanked him for answering the question and therefore implied no-one else had. Is it so difficult? And now you refuse to acknowledge my repeated answer to your specific question.

I'm out...
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well at the point when I said that, nobody but him had answered it. Your reply up to that point was:

grumpybadger said:
I've got some portraits and landscapes off my 7D that I am very pleased with, as I did off my 10D (the last APS-C camera I owned)

5DII will give you more ultimate resolution but up to A3, I reckon you'd be hard pressed to tell which print came from which camera - assuming the photographer had got the technicalities right
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I don't see an answer there as to why the 7d is compared to the 5d but not the 20d, 30d, etc etc as was my question.
 
grumpybadger said:
And I then went on to say that the direct comparison between 5DII and 7D is probably on the basis of price. Very few people would be considering a trade off between a 450D and a 5DII.

I genuinely believe the 7D to be the best APS-C camera made by Canon to-date.
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Nifkin said:
JOE! STOP CARING SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT YOU READ IN THE FORUMS!!!! So what if other people, when making a choice between the 7D and the 5DII, decide that the 7D is a good choice for sport and wildlife???! It doesn't mean it can't do everything else! What is YOUR opinion of the camera's performance? You own one! Why do you have to get your impressions of your own camera validated by others?
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Essentially I want to make sure I have the right tool for the job, it's as simple as that.

All the things I've been reading about the niche of the 7d have made me question whether I bought the right camera and if I need to change it. I'm asking other peoples opinions to help make my decision and make it for the right reason instead of having the wrong impression formed by myself.
 
grumpybadger said:
Originally Posted by grumpybadger
And I then went on to say that the direct comparison between 5DII and 7D is probably on the basis of price. Very few people would be considering a trade off between a 450D and a 5DII.

I genuinely believe the 7D to be the best APS-C camera made by Canon to-date.
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that was post 18 grumpy, I made the statement to nifkin thanking him for answering my question at post 9.

Holy cow I can;t predict that you are going to answer it further down the line can I. I've edited post 9 to appease you... chill out my friend!!
 
Arkady said:
ummm...it's an open forum - so we all get to play if we feel like it...
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I realise that, grumpy seemed to think I was deliberately isolating him out and saying he hadn't answered my question. That wasn't the case, somewhere along this thread something has been hugely misinterpreted
 
joescrivens said:
that was post 18 grumpy, I made the statement to nifkin thanking him for answering my question at post 9.

Holy cow I can;t predict that you are going to answer it further down the line can I. I've edited post 9 to appease you... chill out my friend!!
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I understand that but I have now proferred my opinion three times (Post #17, #24 and #33) since but you want to argue semantics.

For clarity - my points that you should consider are:

1. Does the 7D have any features a 5D doesn't that you wouldn't want to live without
2. What do you do with your images - do you need the IQ offered by a 5D
3. Does the 5D offer you value for money

and

1. If you are only printing to A3, I don't believe you could correctly tell the camera the image has come from (I can't)
2. I genuinely believe the 7D to be Canon's best APS-C camera yet
3. The 7D isn't compared to the 20D/30D/40D/450D etc as they are all half the price
Only you can answer those questions and make up your own mind what to buy or not.
 
Joe, both Grumpy and I have given you different takes on your query, both of which are valid. Not sure what else can be said beyond what's been discussed already, to be frank. :shrug:
 
grumpybadger said:
I understand that but I have now proferred my opinion three times (Post #17, #24 and #33) since but you want to argue semantics.

For clarity - my points that you should consider are:

1. Does the 7D have any features a 5D doesn't that you wouldn't want to live without
2. What do you do with your images - do you need the IQ offered by a 5D
3. Does the 5D offer you value for money

and

1. If you are only printing to A3, I don't believe you could correctly tell the camera the image has come from (I can't)
2. I genuinely believe the 7D to be Canon's best APS-C camera yet
3. The 7D isn't compared to the 20D/30D/40D/450D etc as they are all half the price
Only you can answer those questions and make up your own mind what to buy or not.
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excellent advice and questions!

I'd have to say:

1. Does the 7D have any features a 5D doesn't that you wouldn't want to live without - possibly the flip up wireless flash capabilities, but I haven't explored that extensively yet.
2. What do you do with your images - do you need the IQ offered by a 5D - I don't need it, no. It's more a want - I can see the difference in the dynamic range from the 5d
3. Does the 5D offer you value for money - I don't think the body is too expensive, it;s more the fact that three of my lenses are ef-s so I'd have to replace them.

I think perhaps I'm good with the 7d for now, perhaps in a few years when the 5d mk3 comes out and I have a full wallet I could make the jump
 
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