7D vs 1D III for motorsport

Matt_B

Matt_B

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Matthew
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I've done some forum trawling on here and I think I know the answer but I wouldn't mind the opinion of those more experienced than myself on what may be better for motorsport.

My initial thoughts are that I don't want to lose much length on my lenses from my 450D but want far superior high ISO performance. Is the larger sensor of the 1D worth the loss of length?

If someone could help me make up my mind...thanks
 
I had a 1dmk3 and it was terrible, i was unlucky and had a bad copy, the 1d is a camera that has been built up from the ground to be a pro tool, the 7D isn't the 1D will take the knocks the rain and mud etc... not sure if the 7D will really stand up to the abuse the 1D can, the 1D will generaly perform better, the autofocus (assuming you get a good copy) the overall build of the camera is going to be better, its a 1.3 crop which i thinks better than 1.6 noise will be slightly better on the 1D the pictures will look just that little bit better.

Its your choice at the end of the day, i think i would lean toward a 1D i sold mine on eBay for £900 they go pretty cheep!
 
I don't shoot motorsport, I shoot mostly wildlife so I have the same issues as yourself in not wanting to lose reach. I bought a 1DMK2n the moment it hit the market and was very disappointed in the loss of reach compared even to a 20D. Obviously, your motorsport targets are somewhat larger, but I think you could still find loss of reach to be a disadvantage in many situations where you'll probably be cropping more than you'd like.

The 1D3 was a shot in the foot for Canon with a lot of users finding AF problems which were unacceptable and there were a total of two or three recalls IIRC to remedy the AF issues. I think you also have to be realistic - the 1D3 is a dated model compared to the 7D and I don't think the AF system will equal that of the 7D- many people who use both the 7D and the later 1D4 are of the opinion that it's a very close thing between the AF systems of the two cameras, and many users will tell you they find the 7D system better.

The 7D isn't going to equal the build of the 1 Series, but it's very robustly built, and it feels it in the hand. Mines been soaking wet on a few occasions and never hiccuped so I don't think you need have any concerns about it not being up to the job.
 
as mentioned the drop of some length may be an issue to you, i found myself reaching for the 120-300 instead of the 70-200 for example.

re the AF issues on the 1Dmk3, it was a particular range of s/n effected. if you decide on the mk3 either get one from outside of that range or most should have had the recall fixes by now.

sure its not a newer model like the 7D but for motorsport the AF system should still blow your socks off.
 
The 1D III doesn't have great ISO performance, in fact it's only marginally better than the 1D IIn it replaced. If noise is your main issue go for the 7D, likewise if you want to keep that reach you already have.

The 1D III will give you a more balanced system to handle (unless you get a grip for the 7D), stronger build quality, faster FPS (but not really enough to notice a difference I've found) and a longer lasting shutter life.

Regarding the extra crop, and this is totally a personal view, I'd rather have to crop into an image than wish I could crop out.
 
adamgasson said:
The 1D III will give you a more balanced system to handle (unless you get a grip for the 7D),
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I totally agree - the 7D really benefits in handling from the grip being added, but I always add a grip for just that reason.
 
I shoot motorsport with a 7D. Its survived the worst of weathers and is going strong. 1D3 is tougher still but the difference in crop factor means effective length is different with different lenses.

I find 7D handles noise very well - expose correctly and you can run high ISOs without degradation, or with very little noise post processing. I don't tend to use a grip with mine either, but I do use a monopod.
 
Thanks all, that was a fairly one sided argument in favour of the 7D which I expected to be the case. Will be trawling the classifieds.
 
I'd have gone with the 1D... the only "draw back" is the 1.3x crop vs the 1.6x crop, however I maintain that 1.3x crop (APS-H) is the perfect solution for sports shooting....
 
desantnik said:
I'd have gone with the 1D... the only "draw back" is the 1.3x crop vs the 1.6x crop, however I maintain that 1.3x crop (APS-H) is the perfect solution for sports shooting....
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:plus1:

Never used a 7D but have used a 1D Mk111 for a couple of years.

I find it very, very good and take a lot of motorsport photos.

Didn't really notice the "reach effect" on the tracks I attend.
 
What lenses do you have at the moment? 7D can take EF-S, 1D cannot.

The fast focusing that a 1D and a 7D can manage may be all well and good in theory, but if the focus motor in the lens can't keep up you'll end up with lots of poor shots.

Eventually when funds permit I would like to upgrade to 1D series camera - but in the meantime the 7D is a good alternative.

Both require high quality lenses - really L grade or equivalent.
 
And apart from anything else.... only L lenses are termed waterproof and then only some of them!
 
I was faced with the same dilemma last year when looking to upgrade from my 40D, and went the 2nd hand 1D3 route.

The main decision factors for me were:

1) Weather sealing - I live in Scotland and it tends to rain quite a lot :D
2) Battery life - I've had over 3000 shots in a weekend from a single charge
3) File Size. I would have needed to buy more CF cards and a faster computer to handle to RAW files from a 7D.
4) Twin card slots - didn't think this would be useful, but it's great to be able to put different races/sessions onto different cards.
5) Custom file names. Instead of IMG_ as a file prefix, you can choose your own letters. Give each race/session a different name and it's amazing how much easier it is to find/group files afterwards and for processing.

There's only a couple of times I've missed the extra reach of the 1.6x crop. If I had the funds, I'd probably go for a 7D as a second body, to give me the best of both worlds.

John
 
desantnik said:
And apart from anything else.... only L lenses are termed waterproof and then only some of them!
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Tis true. Canon also say none are entirely waterproof unless a filter is fitted to prevent water getting past the front element.

The exceptions are the super tele lenses which are too big to take a front mounting filter and rely on lens hoods the size of buckets for rain protection at the front.
 
I've got a few L primes and a 70-200 2.8 II so decent glass to put on it. I'm not too bothered at this moment in time about weather proofing so 7D suits. Second hand they are a little cheaper than a 1D 3 too I guess.
 
I love my 1d, i want another. 1.3 crop is lovely also lovely, 1.6 crop produces rubbish bokeh, but then you do gain a load of focal length.

In terms of AF, mine is superb for 90% of stuff. But struggles with stuff moving away. But it still makes my 50d (or any other camera I've owned) look like it doesn't even have autofocus.

For the 7d is that it is a more modern camera, less noise and probably better AF.

1d's are bullet proof, this is a mahosive plus point. 7d's are not, if you cameras get abused like mine and many trackside togs do, then this is the selling point.

I feel myself needing a 1d4 more and more just talking about them...
 
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Nick - re the rubbish bokeh from 1.6, really?

I also lust for a 1D4 but there are a few lenses that are higher up the list!
 
adamgasson said:
The 1D III doesn't have great ISO performance, in fact it's only marginally better than the 1D IIn it replaced.
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Just no! When the mkIII came out it astounded the people who reviewed it.

Comments like...

"Since this article first appeared I've heard from several people by e-mail expressing their concern that my statements about the MKIII's low noise capabilities "can't be right". That there's "no way" that it has at least a stop lower noise than the 5D. That I must be "smoking something" to write that the MKIII has as much as a two stop low noise advantage over other previous Canon cameras.

Well folks – get over it. If anything I have been conservative in my comments."
 
jj_glos said:
Use the same lens on different crop bodies and you'll get the same bokeh so I wouldn't worry about that.
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I don't believe this to be the case? Certainly i can see the difference in the quality of bokeh between my 1.3 and 1.6x bodies on the same lens.

Just interested to know the reasoning behind your comment.
 
dunganick said:
I don't believe this to be the case? Certainly i can see the difference in the quality of bokeh between my 1.3 and 1.6x bodies on the same lens.

Just interested to know the reasoning behind your comment.
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Bokeh is a characteristic of the lens not the sensor. Your 1.6 crop is just showing you a crop of the image you see on your 1.3 crop. If you're actually referring to depth of field, then again with the same lens an image taken from the same point will have the same dof. If however you move closer to get the same framing you'll change the dof. This isn't bokeh though, which generally refers to the quality of the out of focus areas in an image. The sensor doesn't effect this characteristic of a lens.
 
Is there really that much between them? I don't believe either of them would be a bad choice and if you bought one neither would you regret having not bought the other.

I was using a 1D MKII with a 70-200 f2.8 IS II recently and the photos were still pants!

I'd say you are the most important factor followed by the lens. The body just bolts the two together. ;)

But in all seriousness have a play with both. I tried the 7D, even though it was out of my budget, and loved the feel of it but when I held the 1D - well nothing else would do.
 
"Its the photographer not the kit" mantra doesn't really cut it with motorsport.

Sure, a rubbish pilot can still produce crap, but I'm afraid to tell you that your kit is largely the deciding factor in much of motorsport.

The MkIII definitely still has the edge if you can afford it AND are happy with owning a pro body with all that that entails.

If you aren't happy or want to throw a load of non-L glass at it, don't buy the MkIII its not worth it.

Simples.

Personally, I'd take the MkIII, but I rarely do any non-motorsport photography.
 
I now own both the 7D and 1Dmk3 so have had the opportunity to compare them directly. I have owned the 7D for just over a year now and really thought it was a great camera for the price vs performance. I had put a grip on it and that really helped in balance when paired with a big heavy lens like a prime f/2.8.

However I found myself looking for a second body so I could have a shorter range zoom on one and a prime plus tc on another. at this point I started to look at the 1Dmk3 as a possible alternative as the prices had tumbled. I was concerned due to the many reports of bad AI Servo performance but many said there was a known serial number range to avoid. Did my investigation and found one at Park Cameras that was post the said serial number range. I paid a little over the odds as it can from a retailer but then I got a 3 month warranty and that got my credit card out.

I have to say just handling the 1D is so much better that a 7D and it just 'feels' so much nicer. Obviously that is purely subjective but I really like the handling of the 1D and don't think I would ever like to go back now.

I was/am concerned about the lack of crop as I mainly take aviation pictures and reach is very important. Although I haven't used at an airshow yet I have been Low fly togging at the Mach Loop in Wales and to Silverstone for Britcar. In both these locations the crop was perfect when paired to the 300 prime.

I have found the IQ from the 1D sensor to be in a different league to the 7D, colours are much deeper and contrast better. Plus I have found I need almost no NR on the 1D shots whereas the 7D needed a lot of NR. Now I am not worried about the use of NR on 7D pics as it worked very well so this is just an observation.

Bottom line is that I love the 1Dmk3 and the 7D is very much a backup body now.
 
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