A royal kick in the 'togs.

JackMcIntyre

JackMcIntyre

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Jack McIntyre
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Turning from amateur to profession in my eyes, follows roughly this sort of path:

Take good photos > Get paid > Get better equipment > Gain more capability to take good/better photos.

I've just been declined a job at pretty much the top (judginig by google search) Marathon agency because of my gear. He's seen my marathon photos, and was very keen to get me onboard as a freelance - the job was pretty much sealed until I said the words "350d". I felt like giving him a good :nono: but that wouldn't increase my future chances as he did say when I upgrade they'll reconsider.

Looks like its time to start selling things to get that 40/50d.

Anybody else has a kick in the 'togs recently?

:bang:
 
JackMcIntyre said:
Turning from amateur to profession in my eyes, follows roughly this sort of path:

Take good photos > Get paid > Get better equipment > Gain more capability to take good/better photos.

I've just been declined a job at pretty much the top (judginig by google search) Marathon agency because of my gear. He's seen my marathon photos, and was very keen to get me onboard as a freelance - the job was pretty much sealed until I said the words "350d". I felt like giving him a good :nono: but that wouldn't increase my future chances as he did say when I upgrade they'll reconsider.

Looks like its time to start selling things to get that 40/50d.

Anybody else has a kick in the 'togs recently?

:bang:
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Ring him back, tell him you've borrowed some money from your mum and will have a new camera by the end of the week, Go out and take the pictures required on you old camera and submit your photos if he likes them he will use them!
 
That's disgraceful..... people looking at the images don't want to know what camera you had! How pompous.
Grrrr.
 
Its such a shame, I was (and still am) really looking forward to getting some good work with a good agency - I guess it will have to wait.
 
MrsG said:
That's disgraceful..... people looking at the images don't want to know what camera you had! How pompous.
Grrrr.
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not really, a 350d will take great pictures handled skilfully during the day but as the light falls it will fail to focus and go grainy as hell

I feel your pain I'm fighting through this cycle, just about there now on gear but really need to get some work in to pay for it
 
MrsG said:
That's disgraceful..... people looking at the images don't want to know what camera you had! How pompous.
Grrrr.
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Whilst it is the photographer that "sees" the image. A picture Agency that makes money from supplied shots is going to want to ensure a certain level of equipment that will help.

This will likely include more than one body both capable of good high ISO work as on a wet dull day, you still need to be able to get the shot. Cameras are likely to need good waterproofing to.

Fast lenses will also be needed usually together with multiple flashes.

So as an employer he is not being pompous just ensuring his staff have the ability to deliver on any occasion..

He's intending to work for a company and they have set standards. ~That is their right.

To the op I strongly suggest you check what level of kit they expect and then beg, steal or borrow, to get it before someone else (and there is always someone else) turns up with the right kit and the post is no longer open.

Look at it as a push to upgrade not a kick.

Good Luck.:)
 
david1701 said:
not really, a 350d will take great pictures handled skilfully during the day but as the light falls it will fail to focus and go grainy as hell

I feel your pain I'm fighting through this cycle, just about there now on gear but really need to get some work in to pay for it
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You are right that the 350d's noise levels are pretty terrible - but the 7-2L focus still stays on subjects, in the last marathon I found that the focus was probably the least of my issues.

And regarding noise in events well - aside from indoor events - who has a running race at night? :'(
 
PsiFox said:
Whilst it is the photographer that "sees" the image. A picture Agency that makes money from supplied shots is going to want to ensure a certain level of equipment that will help.

This will likely include more than one body both capable of good high ISO work as on a wet dull day, you still need to be able to get the shot. Cameras are likely to need good waterproofing to.

Fast lenses will also be needed usually together with multiple flashes.

So as an employer he is not being pompous just ensuring his staff have the ability to deliver on any occasion..

He's intending to work for a company and they have set standards. ~That is their right.

To the op I strongly suggest you check what level of kit they expect and then beg, steal or borrow, to get it before someone else (and there is always someone else) turns up with the right kit and the post is no longer open.

Look at it as a push to upgrade not a kick.

Good Luck.:)
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Thanks for the advice, I've realised that if I sold up my camera (not including lenses) and collected together all of what I have at this moment I could get a safe 40d, a 50d at a push but all my heart is saying is 5d 5d 5d 5d. Its been my dream camera for a long time - the buffer is 3 times bigger than the one on the 20d that he said would be acceptable and then I get to shoot full frame landscape goodness........
 
a1ex2001 said:
Ring him back, tell him you've borrowed some money from your mum and will have a new camera by the end of the week, Go out and take the pictures required on you old camera and submit your photos if he likes them he will use them!
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and what happens when he looks at the EXIF data and realises you've lied to him about a new camera? :suspect:

edit: Arkady's thread 13 ways to P*** Off a Photo Editor might be worth reading at this juncture ;)
 
Musicman said:
and what happens when he looks at the EXIF data and realises you've lied to him about a new camera? :suspect:
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Maybe he'd have a chuckle about it and regard me as a "loose canon" (no pun intended) and hire me because of it.

Or the opposite.
 
JackMcIntyre said:
You are right that the 350d's noise levels are pretty terrible - but the 7-2L focus still stays on subjects, in the last marathon I found that the focus was probably the least of my issues.

And regarding noise in events well - aside from indoor events - who has a running race at night? :'(
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just kills their flexibility, they can't throw you night time jobs ect. Go for the body upgrade and get him on the phone ;)
 
I don't think the guy is being pompous at all, the big question to most photo agency managers looking for event togs has to be reliability.

'can this tog come up with the goods if it's hissing down for 4 hours and there's no shelter'?
 
JackMcIntyre said:
And regarding noise in events well - aside from indoor events - who has a running race at night? :'(
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I covered a 5m cross country race for a local paper last year and although it started on a May morning it was so cloudy that ISO 800+ was required. I got precisely one useable shot that day (with a D40X) which, thankfully, was all that they needed.
 
I have shot races before, A 40D is a good one due to the frame rate. The image file had to be below a certain size, so even lowest jpg setting on my 5D mkII was to large.
 
admirable said:
I don't think the guy is being pompous at all, the big question to most photo agency managers looking for event togs has to be reliability.

'can this tog come up with the goods if it's hissing down for 4 hours and there's no shelter'?
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:agree:

Thats what they're after...it's unusual to mention it outright, as i've always had people say "well, if you come up with the goods..." but the 350D may well let you down at the crucial moment if it's your main body. That's not good for the agency, especially if they've gone to the trouble of sorting commissions for you.
 
If you want to look the part and really maximise your changes of getting into these kinds of things, I'd buy a second hand 1D Mark II body. You'll get a good one off here for around the same price as a 50D (maybe a bit more, but not much?) and believe me it will be worth it.

I try my hardest not to be a gear snob, but take a little advice from someone who upgraded from a 450D (new tech in entry level hardware) to a 1Ds classic (old tech in pro grade hardware), the difference is astounding. The body is rock solid, I swear to god you could blow it up with C4, run over it with a car, drop it off a cliff etc. and the damn thing would still work. With a 1D you will also get an excellent framerate, you will be able to be out in rain or shine, the AF will be MUCH better (I have noticed this when I upgraded, basically, if the AF locks, and you don't move, you WILL get a good sharp shot) and to top it off you will really look like a pro. There is also that inner satisfaction that you're an owner of Canon's highest grade SLR :naughty:

I myself haven't used xxD bodies but I have read plenty about them. For the extra cost, is it really going to be an upgrade from your 350D when you could go for the 1D?
 
PsiFox said:
To the op I strongly suggest you check what level of kit they expect and then beg, steal or borrow, to get it before someone else (and there is always someone else) turns up with the right kit and the post is no longer open.
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Wise words.

The kit gets you the job, which then means you can earn the money to get your savings back or pay the bank off, then it pays for the new kit you'll inevitably need.
 
trencheel303 said:
If you want to look the part and really maximise your changes of getting into these kinds of things, I'd buy a second hand 1D Mark II body.
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Sorry, but as a pro I don't see other people with 1D's as "looking the part" I see them as either being a working tog (regardless of whether its a 350D, 50D or a 1D) or an amateur with more cash than sense.

I do hope you're not also proposing blagging your way into an event because you have a 1-series body slung over your shoulder?
 
jamesb84 said:
I do hope you're not also proposing blagging your way into an event because you have a 1-series body slung over your shoulder?
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Read the rest of the read, regarding how the machine actually works.

I'm sorry for making a damn suggestion!
 
trencheel303 said:
If you want to look the part and really maximise your changes of getting into these kinds of things, I'd buy a second hand 1D Mark II body. You'll get a good one off here for around the same price as a 50D (maybe a bit more, but not much?) and believe me it will be worth it.

I try my hardest not to be a gear snob, but take a little advice from someone who upgraded from a 450D (new tech in entry level hardware) to a 1Ds classic (old tech in pro grade hardware), the difference is astounding. The body is rock solid, I swear to god you could blow it up with C4, run over it with a car, drop it off a cliff etc. and the damn thing would still work. With a 1D you will also get an excellent framerate, you will be able to be out in rain or shine, the AF will be MUCH better (I have noticed this when I upgraded, basically, if the AF locks, and you don't move, you WILL get a good sharp shot) and to top it off you will really look like a pro. There is also that inner satisfaction that you're an owner of Canon's highest grade SLR :naughty:

I myself haven't used xxD bodies but I have read plenty about them. For the extra cost, is it really going to be an upgrade from your 350D when you could go for the 1D?
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What about the 1Ds?

I need something that's going to be good at landscapes, portraits, weddings, sports..etc. Basically an all round body.
 
JackMcIntyre said:
What about the 1Ds?

I need something that's going to be good at landscapes, portraits, weddings, sports..etc. Basically an all round body.
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1Ds is full frame but with less FPS. The sports would benefit from the 1D as it's a 1.3x crop factor (giving you more reach) with a faster FPS. Basically a long-lens mean machine. I think if you want to include sports in what you're doing a 1D would be better than a 1Ds hence why I suggested it. The 1Ds is also more expensive!

It's a pity the 7D costs what it does... despite being a megapixel maniac it sounds perfect for what you want to do.
 
The 1d is a better all rounder than the 1ds - I have had mk2 versions of both.

If I was hiring someone to represent my company they would have to have the right camera equipment. If they are a top photo agency they will buy a great shot off you regardless of the camera but to pay you to actually represent them is a different matter
 
JackMcIntyre said:
What about the 1Ds?

I need something that's going to be good at landscapes, portraits, weddings, sports..etc. Basically an all round body.
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its 4mp and ancient so do avoid

1d2 I kinda agree with for sports as it was the best pj body, 50d will perform better in low light. So might be worth working out what you'll be shooting more of

also which 70-200 do you have cos if its a weathersealed one then a 1d makes a very potent poor weather combo
 
If it's working for companies like MarathonPhotos.com (which I have) then it is a 20D upwards or a 1D. With a 70-200 lens, preferably an f2.8 one.

Even though they only use a small size jpeg, it's their rules about what cameras they want photographers to use!

To the OP, if you're going for sports, stick to an XXd or a 1D but the Ds is not aimed at the photo-journalist market.

Hope this helps!
Carl
 
trencheel303 said:
Read the rest of the read, regarding how the machine actually works.

I'm sorry for making a damn suggestion!
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Alright...put your handbag away.

I agree with you on how the body works, however I just find this suggestion of "looking the part" laughable.

You could wear a hi-vis vest and tape a piece of grey drainpipe to a shoebox and you'd "look like" a sports tog...doesn't make you one though.
 
jamesb84 said:
I agree with you on how the body works, however I just find this suggestion of "looking the part" laughable..
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He's been turned away for OWNING an entry level body, despite producing excellent pictures that obtained an initial interest. Process of elimination, and a bit of that rare thing called common sense denotes that he was turned away because of the kit. If you go into these agencies with high end kit, which won't only do the job but also says a lot about your seriousness and dedication, they ain't going to turn you away unless you produce carp photos!

What part of this do you not understand?
 
david1701 said:
apologies 1d is 4mp 1ds is still ancient
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Which is why I suggested a mark II. We aren't even talking about the ancient editions. (just because someone said '1Ds' without a 'mark' in front of it does not automatically mean the original body). DUR. :nuts:
 
The reason for turning you down could be just as simple as the fact that they're looking for 50mb images which is pretty much the image library standard these days. Perhaps you ought to clarify their reason with them?
 
trencheel303 said:
Which is why I suggested a mark II. We aren't even talking about the ancient editions. (just because someone said '1Ds' without a 'mark' in front of it does not automatically mean the original body). DUR. :nuts:
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you mentioned 50d money, which a 1ds2 aint its not miles off 5d2 money
 
david1701 said:
you mentioned 50d money, which a 1ds2 aint its not miles off 5d2 money
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I said 1D (D! DEEEEE!) mark II, not 1Ds mark II.

DUR! :)

I'm not dumb enough to suggest any 1Ds for sports either... :gag:
 
Trencheel, please consider how your posts are worded before hitting the Reply button. As always, you could say exactly the same thing without coming across as rude, bordering on offensive!
 
Perhaps this response from the agency says more about them than it does the OP. I got started shooting premier league when I was still shooting a 30D with a 350D as a second body. Shot a rugby world cup with that setup too...funnily enough none of the agencies I was working for during those years seemed to care actually.

If the OP doesn't want to/or doesn't feel they have to upgrade, then find a different agency.
 
Right, I've cleaned up the last few posts. Enough squabbling now thanks.

Back on topic please :suspect:
 
jamesb84 said:
Perhaps this response from the agency says more about them than it does the OP. I got started shooting premier league when I was still shooting a 30D with a 350D as a second body. Shot a rugby world cup with that setup too...funnily enough none of the agencies I was working for during those years seemed to care actually.

If the OP doesn't want to/or doesn't feel they have to upgrade, then find a different agency.
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I do want to upgrade, maybe this is a good enough excuse to sell up and spend some £££

Grendel said:
Right, I've cleaned up the last few posts. Enough squabbling now thanks.

Back on topic please :suspect:
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Thankyou, Paul.
 
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