Abnormal uneven tyre wear

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Arkady

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Anyone ever seen anything like this before?

The tyre was on the front-right (driver's side) and is approximately three years old and has done approximately 16,000 miles of mostly motorway driving.
The steering was getting a bit flaky of late, so I had the tracking and alignment checked at my local Ford dealer. I was so shocked I went for a second opinion at the local TuV-Nord centre (German MOT department that deals with vehicle checks).
Neither the Ford mechanic, the guys from TuV-Nord or the tyre retailer I bought the replacements from have ever seen anything like this before.
There's no sign of abrasion on anything inside the wheel arch, so it's not been rubbing on anything - besides, I'd have heard that as I don't have the stereo on that loud!
This tyre was OK when the wheels were last taken off the car back in May when I had the front suspension arms replaced. At that time the tracking and alignment were both checked.
This damage has occurred in about 8,000 miles of mostly motorway driving.
No loose bolts or components, tracking and alignment all within tolerances.

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Photo 1
Shows the worst area of wear on the inner edge of the tread. Notice how the damage lessens as the tyre rotates.
The wear is not evenly distributed all around the tyre, only at specific points.


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Photo 2.
Notice the 'shoulder' caused by the uneven wear.
Both edges should be the same as at the outer (left as you look at the photo) edge.

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Photo 3.
View from front, showing area of worst damage and showing how it decreases as the tyre rotates.
 
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WTF:eek:

Never ever seen anything like that
looks like its been put on a lathe and a bit taken out

Looks like one to send to the manufacturer
 
Speed humps? If you have those split ones then going through them rather than over them rips your tyres to bits. Once they take a chunk out then your tyre won't be balanced and it will wobble so I'm thinking the wobble point will get further chunks taken out perhaps? A balance weight falling off might do the same.

Try the honestjohn backroom forum. They're all motoring people. Or perhaps pistonheads.
 
Well I've never seen a tyre worn like that before. But if there was a fault with your suspension arms or legs which you had changed and the tyre had started to worn when they was faultly then 9/10 times the tyre keeps wearing like that. No matter weather you have the camber or the castor altered.
 
Have you had tracking/suspension angles checked again now when this wheel came off?

Could feasibly be a defective tyre but I would still expect something to be putting wear on that inner edge to create such wear patterns, thats right on the shoulder which would indicate a misalignment somewhere as it wouldn't normally be in contact with the road surface other than during over enthusiastic cornering [or tyre underflation, but that would show on both edges, which this plainly doesn't] and even then its marginal. :thinking:
 
The previous set of tyres that were on before these were put on three years ago, had to be replaced due to uneven wear because of bad alignment and tracking, but that was all around the inner edges of both front tyres, not just in odd places around the circumference of one of them.

Since then I usually do routine quarterly-checks at the TuV-Nord centre as it's only 8€ for an all-round inspection.
This time I missed one as a full check was done after the new suspension arms were installed in May.
There was no evidence of wear at that time - or we just didn't notice it as it wasn't so pronounced.
I noticed after the end of summer that the car was aquaplaning a lot worse in very heavy rain (which we had quite a lot of) than I remembered prior to the new arms going on - German autobahns don't drain as well as UK roads due to having a smoother surface and less camber - there's less road-noise, but more standing water in heavy rain and a lot more spray.

The car was again re-checked when the new tyres went on - it's part of the installation service - balance, tracking and alignment are all checked.
 
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Very odd one. As Suz says, speed humps can cause that kind of wear, but I don't recall there being that many of them on my one trip to germany, and I haven't seen one quite so pronounced even here in london on cars driven by less than mechanically sympathetics.

The uneven chunking could be explained by something being loose or having excessive play, but if that has been checked.... :shrug:

I would still maintain that edge has to have been in contact with an abrasive surface to create the wear but how.... stumped
 
As the damage is not consistent around the circumference, i would say it is nigh on impossible to have been caused during use. Be it rubbing, miss-aligned tracking or enthusiastic driving.

With no other logical explanation i can think of, i would have to go with it being a one off faulty tyre.

But having just looked at a few reviews, they seem to be pretty poor tyres anyway. So i would use it as an opportunity to change them for something else.
 
Yv said:
I would still maintain that edge has to have been in contact with an abrasive surface to create the wear but how.... stumped
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My thoughts exactly, but that would show wear all around the tyre, not just at one specific point, unless it was something that only made contact at slow speed when the steering's at full-lock.
I looked. Nothing in there that could cause it. :shrug:
 
bass_junkie83 said:
As the damage is not consistent around the circumference, i would say it is nigh on impossible to have been caused during use. Be it rubbing, miss-aligned tracking or enthusiastic driving.

With no other logical explanation i can think of, i would have to go with it being a one off faulty tyre.

But having just looked at a few reviews, they seem to be pretty poor tyres anyway. So i would use it as an opportunity to change them for something else.
Click to expand...

Google Ford Cougar tyres, 1999-2002.

I'm lucky to be able to get these. In the UK it's Kumho's or nothing - the 215/50/R16 is pretty much specific to this model of car only.
These Potenza's are the Ford replacement for the original Pirelli P-Zero tyres the car was originally specced with.
 
I see, quite an odd size. I would just go for a slightly different size if it means you have more choice.

But i do like the P-zeros, i use them myself.
 
bass_junkie83 said:
I see, quite an odd size. I would just go for a slightly different size if it means you have more choice.

But i do like the P-zeros, i use them myself.
Click to expand...

You've obviously not experienced the total joy that is the German automotive service industry.

In the UK I can go into any tyre shop and buy any tyres I want. Regardless of size.

I know that any size tyre between 205/50/16 and 225/55/16 will be OK-ish, even if the optimum size is 215/50/16...the speedo will be slightly out at the extremes, but since I use my sat-nav to guage my speed in kilometres over here, it makes no odds: the car speedo is biased under by about 5-10mph anyway.

In Germany I have to take the car log-book with me otherwise they won't sell them to me. All garages, dealers etc also have to log that on a computer which is presumably linked to the equivalent of the DVLA, so that anyone carrying out any work on any car is on the system somewhere.
Putting the wrong size tyres on my car over here invalidates the insurance, as does having Summer tyres on in the Winter or Winter tyres on in the Summer.

Next year I'll buy a decent set of 17" alloys and get a proper set of tyres for the summer and just use the stock wheels and these new tyres as my winter set.
 
Arkady said:
You've obviously not experienced the total joy that is the German automotive service industry.

In the UK I can go into any tyre shop and buy any tyres I want. Regardless of size.

I know that any size tyre between 205/50/16 and 225/55/16 will be OK-ish, even if the optimum size is 215/50/16...the speedo will be slightly out at the extremes, but since I use my sat-nav to guage my speed in kilometres over here, it makes no odds: the car speedo is biased under by about 5-10mph anyway.

In Germany I have to take the car log-book with me otherwise they won't sell them to me. All garages, dealers etc also have to log that on a computer which is presumably linked to the equivalent of the DVLA, so that anyone carrying out any work on any car is on the system somewhere.
Putting the wrong size tyres on my car over here invalidates the insurance, as does having Summer tyres on in the Winter or Winter tyres on in the Summer.

Next year I'll buy a decent set of 17" alloys and get a proper set of tyres for the summer and just use the stock wheels and these new tyres as my winter set.
Click to expand...

And we complain about our bureaucracy :lol:

I've never seen wear like that before, it can't be continual abrasion as the shoulder decreases and it's unlikely to be caused by road surface faults either - I'm sure you'd have noticed something as drastic as that! I'm betting it's a manufacturing flaw.

I had a new tyre fitted to a motorcycle once. Properly balanced, inflated to correct pressure, perfect tread etc, but it caused horrendous speed wobbles above 40mph. Replacement cured the problem. :shrug:
 
It could be the tyre, poorly made, hence it happening in the one area.
 
Seems strange that the wear isn' tuniform all round the tyre circumference. Are you sure the wheel rim isn't buckled or warped.
 
The fact that the problem has only manifested itself since the new arms went on would point to those being the culprit, were they oem or aftermarket parts?
 
I would send the tyre to the maker.
If you were Turning a lump of wood on a lathe you could get that effect if it was re-mounted off center and a further cut made. I have done that many time both on purpose and in error. and your tyre looks exactly like that.

If a tyre was re mounted on the wheel and it did not blow out correctly to the rim, so that the tyre was effectively slightly off centre it could wear like that. At some stage it would likely lose air, and it could have re positioned itself when you re-inflated.
 
In addition to checking all of the steering and suspension components, have wheel and hub run-out checked i.e. check if the wheel and tyre is rotating correctly or not. Also might be worth checking the wheel bearing and seating too.
 
nilagin said:
Seems strange that the wear isn' tuniform all round the tyre circumference. Are you sure the wheel rim isn't buckled or warped.
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Either this or a naff tyre was my first thought.

Although a buckle of that magnitde would be quite difficult to balance out...
 
Don't know if the ford has a camber setting, also slight tyre separation with the bulge.

Merc
 
I do love a good fault.

But just like everyone else I’m bewildered.

I feel it must be a rub, an off centre rub.

I feel that if the tyre was not centred properly and popped up on bead all around that would have been felt whist driving causing quite a noticeable wobble or shake....let alone the tyre staying on for any length of time.

So then I’m imagining the tyre on full lock and some movement in the supporting trusses or even the cars frame itself is causing the tyre to rub against something.... but then I can't see how that would be the same spot on the tyre again and again...so it not that either.

So then, eliminating as much as I can think of, I’ve gone for the rubber compound along that stretch of the tyre being incorrectly manufactured, so its worn far more quickly than the rest of the tyre ..
 
Spoke to the tyre guy in the dealership today, was this tyre on the car before the suspension was fixed 8 months ago?

If so the tyre could have been damaged then and the results only just showing ?

First thing he suggested was the tyre looks as if it ahd been flat but am sure you would have noticedthat lol.
 
It is only possible to get that sort of wear if the Tyre or wheel is recentered.
It can not be caused by intermittent rubbing of an object as it would need to be accurately synchronised with the rotation of the wheel.
This is achieved automatically if it is recentered.
This is basic Lathe work.

How the wheel Tyre became recentered is the only question.
 
I think I have it: the new replacement tyres feel awesome. Soft, comfortable ride etc. Like driving a totally new car in fact. Road noise is perhaps half what it was with the old tyres - especially noticable on a nasty stretch of concrete motorway between the Dutch border and Antwerp in Belgium. Which made me think...

The old tyres were on the car while it sat on the car-park in Aldershot while I was away in Afghan for six months, including the winter months when it snowed in the UK. The spot where it was parked was shady and would not have been in sunlight even on clear days, meaning any snowfall would have lingered there longer than elsewhere.
Perhaps the prolonged period of non-use, coupled with being stationary on frozen tarmac for a month or more may have accellerated the aging of the 'rubber' compound (I know they're no longer rubber but a PVC/PU derivative).
If the rubber was more rigid; i.e. less pliable at the point where the tyre rested on the ground, might that be cause for the uneven wear pattern at that particular spot?

Being away from the car for six months, I was unaware of how rigid the ride-characteristics had become until the new tyres went on.

On closer examination, the tyres also exhibit tiny 'spiderweb' cracks that normally only appear on much older tyres...
 
One thing I noticed when reading up on similar tyre problems, such as the one in the link in my initial reply, was that all the tyres effected seemed to be Bridgestones...:shrug:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
One thing I noticed when reading up on similar tyre problems, such as the one in the link in my initial reply, was that all the tyres effected seemed to be Bridgestones...:shrug:
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I saw that but kind of discounted it as mine aren't run-flats...I would imagine that the cross section of the tyre would be entirely different from a 'normal' tyre...
 
It may be a fault having occurred in the sidewall construction of the tyre due to prolonged exposure to the bad weather whilst stationary, is that a re070? if so a well respected tyre used on performance cars ie some Hondas. In my experience the potenzas are a summer tyre with poor bad weather capabilities(I have re050's on my car) so are best kept for the good months and a winter tyre set and spare wheels for snow/ice for the rest of the year.
Get you tyre dealer to either cut that tyre open to check for construction failure or send it to bridgestone for examination, in fact you could send those pics to bridgestone customer service and ask them.?
 
you sure that's the inner side?
if outer side I'd say it was wheel arch rub

if def inner, I'd say it's probably suspension rub, possibly due to a really bad camber (which would be obvious if you look at the wheel)

has the car been lowered?
 
Arkady said:
The old tyres were on the car while it sat on the car-park in Aldershot while I was away in Afghan for six months, including the winter months when it snowed in the UK. The spot where it was parked was shady and would not have been in sunlight even on clear days, meaning any snowfall would have lingered there longer than elsewhere.
Perhaps the prolonged period of non-use, coupled with being stationary on frozen tarmac for a month or more may have accellerated the aging of the 'rubber' compound (I know they're no longer rubber but a PVC/PU derivative).
If the rubber was more rigid; i.e. less pliable at the point where the tyre rested on the ground, might that be cause for the uneven wear pattern at that particular spot?

...

On closer examination, the tyres also exhibit tiny 'spiderweb' cracks that normally only appear on much older tyres...
Click to expand...

Tyres deteriorate when exposed to the elements. Compounds are added to the mix which reduce the deterioration, these are slow released by the flexing in the tyre as you drive around. So, if you leave the tyre unused for any length of time it will harden comparatively quickly. It might well be that the area which has collapsed was the region in contact with the ground for all those months.

Another possibility is that there was some oil or other damaging chemical on the ground where the tyre rested.

One final thought is that maybe the car was parked on an edge of some sort? Perhaps a manhole or drainage grid in the tarmac? And that all the weight was actually on the shoulder of the tyre causing it to collapse over time?
 
It looks to me like something has been wearing it down, maybe if the suspension was playing up the bottom of the spring housing on the strut under compression.

All I do know is I used to shave tyres on a tyre lathe for touring cars and its a similar effect.

Are you sure no one drove it while you where out there Rob?

Also reading up on potenza re 010's they where designed as a dry weather tyre and rate poorly for wet weather use, advice is not suitable for snow either.
 
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