Ackwardness when offering crit.

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EdinburghGary

EdinburghGary

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This thread:
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=148719

Has inspired THIS thread :D It's something that has made me think in the past, and I guess I want to put the feelers out and see if it is only me who thinks along these lines.

In short:

OP:
"I would like crit on exhibit A"

ANSWER:
"Not keen due to the light / conditions"

REPLY FROM OP:
"I had no time, was in a hurry, I had to get home, money is an issue so can't come back any time soon"....


I sympathise with ALL of the reasons often offered, but does it excuse the photo falling short? Not aimed at ANYONE, and if anything, I have been overly critical of Glenn's photos. Just time and time again, you offer crit, and get a reply which sometimes feels like an excuse for the area you offered crit on.

This is a hell of an ackward topic to bring up I must say, if I were an emotionless drone, with no feelings for others, I guess what I would say is:

"I don't care, the photo suffers as a result, and you should have waited until next time". But I do care about others, and saying that would make me a complete b*****d.

THOUGHTS? :D

Gary.
 
I think I agree with you (not that I often join in on critique threads) - photos have to be evaluated on the basis of the photo and on the presumption that the request for a critique is with the intention of improving as a photographer.

My only addendum would be that we should encourage constructive (and polite) criticism...and an effort to see positives. It can be all too easy to take what is a decent photo and ignore the good qualities because of a desire to point out the flaws.

Again, not aimed at anyone in particular - just my tuppence worth.
 
Im with Gary,
If its not right i wont shoot, but also if i do and its pants ill bin it.
Very Tactfully done on Gary's reply there and a good reply back no back biting.
I see where Gary comes from on the Op reply as an excuse for the poor quality.
If a Tog feels that comment justifies there not so oustanding pick then that is there opinion as we have ours all we can do is offer comment and advice as ever its upto the individual concerned as to weather they take in onboard.
 
If i take a photo and dont like the lighting etc, i keep it. But only as reference for when I go back to the same place.
 
I think we should maybe give more information when offering pictures for critique, for instance in this thread I gave the excuses in advance which explained why they might not be well composed etc but posted them anyway as I liked the energy in them.

The original post in the thread that Gary linked to gives the impression that the photographer could have spent the whole weekend in the area taking pictures rather than being unable to hang around.

Some people do give information such as conditions etc - maybe we should all think more about doing this as it also helps the learning process
 
marcusp13 said:
If i take a photo and dont like the lighting etc, i keep it. But only as reference for when I go back to the same place.
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I often do this, I mean - take it and try and perhaps get a composition right, maybe keep it as a reminder of the place so I can check it out before the next visit etc. Good for recon.

Gary.
 
I can't comment on how others do it but here is how I approach it.

I think of the image hanging on a gallery wall. Does it appeal? If so why? There are good points and worth pointing out what has been done well. If not, again, why? These are the bits that simply need work and I try to encourage the OP to look at those areas and suggest constructive ways that it could be effectively improved. As my own knowledge of composition improves (heck, it could not have been much worse!) I can see more easily where I go wrong and if I can help and pass some of that on then I will.

I do also have a look at the person posting and if they are quite new I will be as friendly and gentle with the "advice" as possible. Scaring people is not sport after all. :)

I have been critical of Gary's before now and because I know him, I know he will take it with the good grace with which it is given. Somtimes, knowing the person makes all the difference to what is written and we don't always know who knows who and sometimes, something that can look harsh when it is made with exactly that knowledge.

I did have a blazing arguement with a fellow tog at an SWPP meeting over crit. He brought along a perfectly exposed image, professionally printed and mounted. There truly was no crit that could be offered, he just wanted his ego massaged. I took along an image that I knew fell far short of the standard I want but I didn't know how to "fix" it and shoot it properly. He lambasted me for bringing an inkjet print and I replied that if it's c*** why the hell would I send it off to get it printed. I know it's c*** and I don't need you to tell me it's c***. I do need you to help me make it better! When he calmed down he did actually know what I needed to do and told me. Now that's more like it!

You do need to grow some thick skin though if you want to take your photography up in quality. One MPA tutor took 20 images, handed 2 back and told the recipient to go and shoot another 18 like that! :)
 
from my point of view, and i have been known to say things like that.

I do it because some times i am aware of the issue and at time didnt spot it or i liked the resulting photo anyway and i am pointing out why the photo isnt perfect for what ever reason.

This doesnt mean dont learn from the issues and try to bear them in mind next time and it also means that things i havent noticed get pointed it.

For example my 52 for this week, Harvey has a tree comming out of his head, now i still love the photo because of the expression on his face, but the tree bugs me and it does reduce the quality of the image, but i still love the picture.
 
People have different levels of ability and interest in photography. For some it is a passion and they are willing and able to devote a lot of time and money to it. To many others it is not that important and they just enjoy taking a few photos.
 
EdinburghGary said:
This thread:
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=148719

Has inspired THIS thread :D It's something that has made me think in the past, and I guess I want to put the feelers out and see if it is only me who thinks along these lines.

In short:

OP:
"I would like crit on exhibit A"

ANSWER:
"Not keen due to the light / conditions"

REPLY FROM OP:
"I had no time, was in a hurry, I had to get home, money is an issue so can't come back any time soon"....


I sympathise with ALL of the reasons often offered, but does it excuse the photo falling short? Not aimed at ANYONE, and if anything, I have been overly critical of Glenn's photos. Just time and time again, you offer crit, and get a reply which sometimes feels like an excuse for the area you offered crit on.

This is a hell of an ackward topic to bring up I must say, if I were an emotionless drone, with no feelings for others, I guess what I would say is:

"I don't care, the photo suffers as a result, and you should have waited until next time". But I do care about others, and saying that would make me a complete b*****d.

THOUGHTS? :D

Gary.
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I don't think its overly critical. It needs to be said so that people know how to get better photos.
I think it's one of those areas that benefit from the way you word the criticism though. Saying things like "i'd prefer it if the light had been from such n such direction" rather than saying that the shot shouldn't have been taken in it's current form.

Saying that though, i've become so overly critical of my own photos, i don't trust myself to give the right crit. so i sort of know how it feels trying to tell someone :lol:
 
good honest crit is how we all grow and improve as photographers. and it makes no difference how much experience the person giving said crit has either. i think the best crit sometimes comes from a non photographer too. a good image should be recognised as such by photographers and non photographers alike. it's all to easy to get hung up on the little imperfections in our images even to the point where it gets us down at times, when in reality it is a very pleasing photo to the untrained eye. remember a lot of the most memorable photo's in the world are not technically perfect.
 
I'm always happy to receive good honest (constructive) crit but don't often feel very able to give any due to my lack of photography experience.

It's a tricky subject, whilst we learn from the crit given it can sometimes feel rather disheartening too (until you take a step back and start being objective rather than subjective about your shot) especially I think to newbies who are struggling to find their feet with the basics, imho.
 
The point here is, why ask for crit if all people are gonna do is dismiss it by offering reasons to validate a poor photo? that is the sole point of Gary's OP.
 
I don't think you necessarily have to offer full on in depth crit if you don't feel confident to do so, just say what you like about it, or what you don't like.
 
It's much easier to give criticism than receive it. Not knowing the posters background, it does need to be handled sensitively.

However, it's slightly irksome when people don't attempt to exercise any initial quality control. That is unless there is a particular question. But just to ask if it's a nice picture is too broad a remit and open to personal opinion.

And adding that it is a nice shot is equally unhelpful.

Really you have to be happy with it yourself before putting it to the public. Only then can you look for help to take you to the next level. There probably is no perfect picture anyway unless staged perhaps.

But really nobody has to post and nobody has to look, so it's not a biggy.

Graham
 
It does Gary, but when you first start out, what you are happy with and post, may not be, and in my case certainly wasn't any good technically. Now I bin a helluva lot more than I used to.
 
Gary to quote you from the thread you linked to ...

A long while ago, I decided that UNLESS the conditions were sublime and would allow me to get a photo that I felt would show the BEST the area had to offered, or at least, show the area in a very good way, I would not shoot. For example, I more or less took ZERO photos for the first two to three days in the SKYE holiday due to less than good conditions / light. I can admit, the conditions were far worse than what you had, but still - I would be fussy as hell and therefore unlikely to shoot.
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Fair enough if you want to follow those 'rules' but if everyone else had done, the vast majority of the best photos ever taken would never have been shot. To criticise a photo for the quality of light can be a valid point, but it sounds to me that you're striving for a hackneyed 'golden hour' approach to photography, one that I'm bored of seeing already, and one that stifles creative thinking on the part of the photographer.
 
NorthernNikon said:
Gary to quote you from the thread you linked to ...

Fair enough if you want to follow those 'rules' but if everyone else had done, the vast majority of the best photos ever taken would never have been shot. To criticise a photo for the quality of light can be a valid point, but it sounds to me that you're striving for a hackneyed 'golden hour' approach to photography, one that I'm bored of seeing already, and one that stifles creative thinking on the part of the photographer.
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Not at all, there are absolutely bucketloads of amazing photos not shot in the golden hour. If you look through my last 50 replies, you will find lots of positive responses to lots of non golden hour photos.

The only point I am trying to make is, if the conditions are *not right* for a shot, then why take it / keep it / post it? I think you need to be HAPPY that you got the shot you wanted, before deciding to display. I am not saying the golden hour needs to be used, I am justy saying, if you need to make an excuse for the photo, you should have waited.

With regards to the boring comment, that's natural. I am getting bored of them too, it comes and goes. Without feeling bored, you would never change, you would become a static photographer who never tried to change or improve, you would never look for new inspiration. The minute you become *happy* to no longer improve and develop, is the same minute you fail.

Gary.
 
Crit is also a problem if you don't know what level the poster is at, as their post may well be their finest work and something they like & are proud of given their then current state of knowledge & ability, so anything negative at that point is gonna hurt

I had a funny the other day, I was unexpectedly at Salford Quays for 4 hours photography (a place I love to shoot at) and I took... no photos at all :(

I'd gone with an architectural/landscape frame of mind and the light just wasn't there, so I thought why waste valuable deleting time later :D

Landscapes are still my first love - but I so often know that another day, time, season would be better that even cracking days can still go in the bin

Too critical? Perhaps

But I swear by the phrase 'In the pursuit of excellence', and the better you get the harder you realise that is to achieve

DD
 
EdinburghGary said:
Not at all, there are absolutely bucketloads of amazing photos not shot in the golden hour. If you look through my last 50 replies, you will find lots of positive responses to lots of non golden hour photos.

The only point I am trying to make is, if the conditions are *not right* for a shot, then why take it / keep it / post it? I think you need to be HAPPY that you got the shot you wanted, before deciding to display. I am not saying the golden hour needs to be used, I am justy saying, if you need to make an excuse for the photo, you should have waited.
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I would say that the excuse was more to appease the critic than anything else. Some people don't have the opportunity to wait. It shouldn't stop them being able to shoot. I think the light in the thread you referenced was fine, but the shots lack impact for other reasons. The reasons you gave for not liking them seemed to suggest that the OP couldn't have got a decent shot in that light and that is of course a nonsense.

With regards to the boring comment, that's natural. I am getting bored of them too, it comes and goes. Without feeling bored, you would never change, you would become a static photographer who never tried to change or improve, you would never look for new inspiration.
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You don't have to be bored with anything in order to look elsewhere for other stimulation. Why wait until you're bored with something to move on? Of course this is all moot, I was referring to being bored of other people's photos forever leaning towards the hackneyed landscape formula akin to painting by numbers in the digital age.

The minute you become *happy* to no longer improve and develop, is the same minute you fail.
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That sounds a bit too much like it came from a w***y management self-help book. Fail at what? It all depends on why the photographer shoots, not everyone is on a road to enlightenment, and there are many who might just be happier if they realised their limitations.

To go back to the original point about people's failure to take criticism, IMVHO it's more down to the poor nature of the criticsim than any failing on the poster's part.
 
NorthernNikon said:
To go back to the original point about people's failure to take criticism, IMVHO it's more down to the poor nature of the criticsim than any failing on the poster's part.
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Doesn't that almost take us back to the person posting the crit being 'qualified' to give it? I don't know the technicalities of photography, but I don't think that makes my crit any less valid than someone who does.

Don't know if that was the point you were trying to make :shrug:, but that's how it felt to an average humble Joe.
 
NorthernNikon said:
I would say that the excuse was more to appease the critic than anything else. Some people don't have the opportunity to wait. It shouldn't stop them being able to shoot. I think the light in the thread you referenced was fine, but the shots lack impact for other reasons. The reasons you gave for not liking them seemed to suggest that the OP couldn't have got a decent shot in that light and that is of course a nonsense.
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It shouldn't but it does. Please try and remember that when we reply to crit, we do so in a capacity of a photographer with X amount of experience. I have been shooting 18 months ;) I offered a suggestion that I thought would have helped improve the shot, and I stand by it. Rather than attempt (and fail) to pick holes in my crit, how about you use your superior knowledge of shooting in said conditions and help the original poster? :) I look forward to whatever tips you share with him, I can learn from them too :)

NorthernNikon said:
You don't have to be bored with anything in order to look elsewhere for other stimulation. Why wait until you're bored with something to move on? Of course this is all moot, I was referring to being bored of other people's photos forever leaning towards the hackneyed landscape formula akin to painting by numbers in the digital age.
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Of course not, but if you are perfectly happy "Painting By Numbers" as you put it (whatever that means), then who cares? When you need to venture outside the box, you will. I have done several times, and I will no doubt again. No point in rushing the hobby to appease a few people who can't see the wood for the trees.

NorthernNikon said:
That sounds a bit too much like it came from a w***y management self-help book. Fail at what? It all depends on why the photographer shoots, not everyone is on a road to enlightenment, and there are many who might just be happier if they realised their limitations.
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I will take your word for it, not read many w***y books. You may be different, I however, would NOT enjoy thinking I was was "PhotoGod". I like the fact that there is a ladder to climb. I like having ambition and drive, I built an extremely successful company with that attitude. If I got bored and rested on my arse without thinking I could do better, I would have given up a long time ago. Thinking you are "Perfect" is just a sign of someone with too much ego, and far too much arrogance.

NorthernNikon said:
To go back to the original point about people's failure to take criticism, IMVHO it's more down to the poor nature of the criticsim than any failing on the poster's part.
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Nothing poor about the nature of the criticism, however, feel free to show us all a shining example of how to do it properly / better. Perhaps I will add a "Warning: IS NOT A PRO" with each reply I make? Perhaps we all need a grade based on how long we have all been shooting? Perhaps you and the other big boys should get exclusive access to all CRIT requests and your replies should appear first and foremost before any of us less experience wannabes get a pop? :D

All in my extremely humble opinion ;)

Gary.
 
swag72 said:
Doesn't that almost take us back to the person posting the crit being 'qualified' to give it? I don't know the technicalities of photography, but I don't think that makes my crit any less valid than someone who does.

Don't know if that was the point you were trying to make :shrug:, but that's how it felt to an average humble Joe.
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Of course it does. It's called Superiority Complex, a lot of Elitist types suffer from it.

Gary.
 
swag72 said:
Doesn't that almost take us back to the person posting the crit being 'qualified' to give it? I don't know the technicalities of photography, but I don't think that makes my crit any less valid than someone who does.

Don't know if that was the point you were trying to make :shrug:, but that's how it felt to an average humble Joe.
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I don't think the right term is 'qualified', more capable. You don't have to be able to do something to be able to coach in it, but what you need need to show is an understanding of what the poster may have been trying to achieve, what the strengths and weaknesses of the shot are, and then have the ability to translate these thoughts in a clear way.

Maybe because I've come from a backgruond submitting work to a writer's that I expect more from a 'crit'. There, you have to earn the right to be critiqued by critting the work of others first, and people take the time to print your work out and crit it properly. Here, and in other forums, people think posting 'Nice shot' or 'That doesn;t work for me' thinking they're adding value to the thread. In reality, posts like that add little more than post whoring, the first only appropriate for an exhibition type board, the second only fit to think and not express.

I've slowly come to the conclusion that the only way to get decent criticism it to form a small closed group of like minded people (they don't have to be photographers, in fact having some non photographers would be a plus) and share your work with them in the understanding that they would put the time and effort into criticising your work as you would theirs.
 
NorthernNikon said:
I don't think the right term is 'qualified', more capable. You don't have to be able to do something to be able to coach in it, but what you need need to show is an understanding of what the poster may have been trying to achieve, what the strengths and weaknesses of the shot are, and then have the ability to translate these thoughts in a clear way.

Maybe because I've come from a backgruond submitting work to a writer's that I expect more from a 'crit'. There, you have to earn the right to be critiqued by critting the work of others first, and people take the time to print your work out and crit it properly. Here, and in other forums, people think posting 'Nice shot' or 'That doesn;t work for me' thinking they're adding value to the thread. In reality, posts like that add little more than post whoring, the first only appropriate for an exhibition type board, the second only fit to think and not express.

I've slowly come to the conclusion that the only way to get decent criticism it to form a small closed group of like minded people (they don't have to be photographers, in fact having some non photographers would be a plus) and share your work with them in the understanding that they would put the time and effort into criticising your work as you would theirs.
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How about you lead by example then? Rather than shoot those down who actually contribute to the forum, how about you give it a try?

Gary.
 
NorthernNikon said:
I don't think the right term is 'qualified', more capable. You don't have to be able to do something to be able to coach in it, but what you need need to show is an understanding of what the poster may have been trying to achieve, what the strengths and weaknesses of the shot are, and then have the ability to translate these thoughts in a clear way.

Maybe because I've come from a backgruond submitting work to a writer's that I expect more from a 'crit'. There, you have to earn the right to be critiqued by critting the work of others first, and people take the time to print your work out and crit it properly. Here, and in other forums, people think posting 'Nice shot' or 'That doesn;t work for me' thinking they're adding value to the thread. In reality, posts like that add little more than post whoring, the first only appropriate for an exhibition type board, the second only fit to think and not express.

I've slowly come to the conclusion that the only way to get decent criticism it to form a small closed group of like minded people (they don't have to be photographers, in fact having some non photographers would be a plus) and share your work with them in the understanding that they would put the time and effort into criticising your work as you would theirs.
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Don't you think that this stifles the 'little people'? While I respect your opinion, it makes me feel very uncomfortable about offering crit. This forum is made up of all manner of people and surely they are all 'capable' of offering comments about what they see and why it works or doesn't.

I don't doubt that most of the crit I've received from here has been from hobbyists and amateurs but that doesn't make it any less useful than any received by a pro.

I hope that you don't think I am throwing my dummy, I'm really not. It is interesting to understand why others have the views that they do.

Can I ask then how you would view any crit that I gave you?
 
For me its quite simple....
I post my photos to get critisism...good or bad I dont care..if it is good it makes me happy...if it is bad,it makes me think how I can improve...and to be honest I dont mind bad comments as long as they come with a word of advice or say whats wrong with the photo...tell me whats wrong...tell me what I could have done better...Or how I should have done this.
Thats why I post here.
When I fell that I can give a word of advice,I give it.most of the times its more for post processing,but its when I think im good at...but...
Please remember that everyone sees world different!!!!If I dont like the photo, its not because its crap! Someone else may love it the way it is...
Lukas
 
EdinburghGary said:
How about you lead by example then? Rather than shoot those down who actually contribute to the forum, how about you give it a try?
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I do, when I see a shot I feel is worth taking the time to respond to and where I feel I can add value.

I do find it slightly ironic though that your reaction to my 'feedback' on this thread is reminiscent of the type of reaction to feedback you're railing against.
 
swag72 said:
Don't you think that this stifles the 'little people'? While I respect your opinion, it makes me feel very uncomfortable about offering crit. This forum is made up of all manner of people and surely they are all 'capable' of offering comments about what they see and why it works or doesn't.

I don't doubt that most of the crit I've received from here has been from hobbyists and amateurs but that doesn't make it any less useful than any received by a pro.

I hope that you don't think I am throwing my dummy, I'm really not. It is interesting to understand why others have the views that they do.

Can I ask then how you would view any crit that I gave you?
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Mate,

Never let people put you off offering crit. People who offer crit are what keep the forum running. He has not contributed, I have just done a search and found none of this "Expert Crit" being offered. I spend endless hours on these boards trying to help people, responding to threads when no one else will, with the sole purpose of HOPEFULLY allowing people to learn from the things I have been taught by people here. I might not be a pro, but I have an opinion, and NO ONE is gonna stop me from airing it, unless the banhammer gets thrown. The reason I do it? I like to get the same in return, and I feel I learn from looking at the photos others post.

Please don't let a few small minded individuals stop you from contributing to the forums. Reply once to a crit request and you will have contributed more.

Gary.
 
I think you were overly apologetic about your thoughts, but better too much than not at all.
A change in light would be just one method of grabbing some impact, but that assumes the shooter is looking for that type of image.
All you can do is relay your thoughts, how you would approach the shoot, nobody can know the shooters intention, you just have to chuck your bucket full in, and hope the person asking for critique, reads and absorbs it as you intended.
I don't see a damn thing wrong with offering singular advice about how you would shoot it, there are plenty of other critiquers who could chime in on other methods if they had a mind to.
With that in mind, you gave excellent advice :thumbs:
In fact without that in mind you gave excellent advice.

scuse, new puter...no spelzchekker
 
NorthernNikon said:
I do, when I see a shot I feel is worth taking the time to respond to and where I feel I can add value.

I do find it slightly ironic though that your reaction to my 'feedback' on this thread is reminiscent of the type of reaction to feedback you're railing against.
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No, you are mistaken. First of all, it's not FEEDBACK you are offering here.

You are doing the forums a royal disservice by putting such a negative spin on the offering of crit. You did the same thing in the motorbike thread. You clearly have an issue with contributors on this forum offering feedback, and you NEED taken to task on it. People should not be scared to offer crit, and your comments and attitude are only going to do one thing, stop people from contributing to the forum.

Gary.
 
joxby said:
I think you were overly apologetic about your thoughts, but better too much than not at all.
A change in light would be just one method of grabbing some impact, but that assumes the shooter is looking for that type of image.
All you can do is relay your thoughts, how you would approach the shoot, nobody can know the shooters intention, you just have to chuck your bucket full in, and hope the person asking for critique, reads and absorbs it as you intended.
I don't see a damn thing wrong with offering singular advice about how you would shoot it, there are plenty of other critiquers who could chime in on other methods if they had a mind to.
With that in mind, you gave excellent advice :thumbs:
In fact without that in mind you gave excellent advice.

scuse, new puter...no spelzchekker
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Thanks Joxby,

I try damn hard to be polite at all times, and I always attempt to be honest. I do try and keep the original poster in mind at all times as I do not aim to upset. That is why I apologise if being negative, as its not nice. Better than than NOT contributing to the forum if you ask me. If more people did it, even better.

Gary.
 
As a realtive "newbie" on here, I find it difficult to offer crit - i.e. someone with 5,000 posts says "look at this pic, tried it, didn't work, what should i do", I am thinking, I know what i don't like (and what I do like) but what do you do to the bits you don't like to make them better, so do i shut up or say, "better than i can do, however..............."

I think as long as criticism is +ve and you mention the great bits as well, go for it, especially if in the "be harsh" forum
 
Lynton said:
As a realtive "newbie" on here, I find it difficult to offer crit - i.e. someone with 5,000 posts says "look at this pic, tried it, didn't work, what should i do", I am thinking, I know what i don't like (and what I do like) but what do you do to the bits you don't like to make them better, so do i shut up or say, "better than i can do, however..............."

I think as long as criticism is +ve and you mention the great bits as well, go for it, especially if in the "be harsh" forum
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Be honest, but polite. Nowt else, job done :)
 
swag72 said:
Don't you think that this stifles the 'little people'? While I respect your opinion, it makes me feel very uncomfortable about offering crit. This forum is made up of all manner of people and surely they are all 'capable' of offering comments about what they see and why it works or doesn't.
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Of course they are, but the key thing ithere is "offering comments about what they see and why it works or doesn't". All too often poster forget the part about explaining why and just say that it does or doesn't work.

I don't doubt that most of the crit I've received from here has been from hobbyists and amateurs but that doesn't make it any less useful than any received by a pro.
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Hobbyist, amateurs and pros are all terms that in no way reflect on the individual's ability to offer worthwhile criticism. As I mentioned above, non-photographers can often be the best type of critic as they're not blinded by convention.

I hope that you don't think I am throwing my dummy, I'm really not. It is interesting to understand why others have the views that they do.

Can I ask then how you would view any crit that I gave you?
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I can't see any dummies being spat here! In terms of how I'd view your criticism, well I can't say until I've seen it, but I would hope to view it solely based on its content and not prejudiced by any other factors.

I do think that there should be a distiction between posting for criticism and posting just to show people. I've no doubt that Jason Cole isn't looking for C&C when he posts, he's got his own distinctive style and knows what works for him, he's just posting to show people what's he's done. In this case, posting a simple thumbs up or 'Nice shot' is fine, Shots where people really want criticism obviously deserve better, but then there is aI think a middle ground where people post, on the premise of looking for C&C, when actually they're just looking to show people, or where people have inferred that C&C is required when actually it's not.
 
What is up with everyone tonight?? Everyone should embrace the pear, it's lovely!!

I very rarely post anything other than my 365 shot for the day. I feel as a relative beginner that any crit I offer won't really be worth much. But, I now see that people do actually want it. "Be honest, but polite. Nowt else, job done"
:thumbs:
 
Critique is to be critical, which is fundamentally negative.
No way round it, if it is to be of any use.
Some peeps need encouragement, they don't need to be crushed by gratuitous fail pointing.
This bloke I know always says, you should always include at least one positive comment and one negative comment in any crit.
If the pic is a stinker crit might contain five negative points to one positive point, I think that's the best any submitter could hope for, for it to be any use to them.
Could always miss the negative altogether, it won't be as helpful but..being crushed is counter productive.
 
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